~$1300 gaming build

[bennieboy2290]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
---Gaming, MATLAB/SIMILUNK
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
---~$1300
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
---Seattle, WA
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
---Case, PSU, MOBO, CPU, RAM, GPU, SSD, HDD, ODD, Monitor, Keyboard
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
---Bose 2.1 PC speakers
6) Will you be overclocking?
---He's open to the idea, but doesn't want any unnecessary risks... So OC if needed I guess
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
---He wants a <24" 1080p
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
----ASAP
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
---USB 3.0, SATA 6Gb/s
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
---Win 7 Home Premium 64bit from school

This is what we're looking at now: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ylG8 I'll list them out if you guys prefer.

He prefers Nvidia and Asus mobos so if you recommend something else give a convincing reason haha.

 

[johnnydoe]

The board is decent, but too light feature-wise. I'd rather get the AsRock Z77 Extreme4 instead.

As for the rest, 16GB RAM is overkill. If you don't even fill 4GB, get 8GB.

Oh and, that PSU is based on a WAY too old 2006 design... get something newer like a Rosewill Fortress 450. That's all you need for that machine.

 

[Dangman]

That Asus mobo is a solid choice and I would definitely choose it over an AsRock. With that said, ask your friend if he absolutely wants to OC or not. Thats because if he really doesn't want to overclock, he can easily shave off $50 to $85 off that build as is.

The RAM is definitely a tad overkill but it's an extremely good deal for RAM. However note that you won't be able to use more than 16GB of RAM later on since your friend has Windows 7 Home Premium.

Case wise, not a fan of that case to be honest. I recommend any of these other cases instead:
$60 - Corsair Carbide Series 200R ATX Case
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite Black ATX Case
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case
$65 - Corsair Carbide Series 300R ATX Case
$80 - Corsair Carbide Series 400R ATX Case
$100 - Antec 1100 ATX Case

PSU wise, the PSU may indeed be based on a 2006 design but that design was updated in 2010 for that Seasonic PSU. So I'd still stick with it over that overpriced Rosewill.

 

[johnnydoe]

That Asus mobo is a solid choice and I would definitely choose it over an AsRock..

There's not a SINGLE Asus Ivy board I'd choose over an AsRock as AsRock's are better built by PEGATRON unlike the new Asus` that're made by ECS... not to mention that the AsRock's are more feature packed/nicer looking and better P/P.

PSU wise, the PSU may indeed be based on a 2006 design but that design was updated in 2010 for that Seasonic PSU. So I'd still stick with it over that overpriced Rosewill.

That's BS. The S12/M12 II design hasn't been updated ever since late 2007... it's GROUP regulated, NOT independant. No DC-DC convertion. Rather poor efficiency by today's standarts.

And how exactly is the Rosewill overpriced? It's priced excellently for what it is. You pay a premium for a TOP end unit and that is what it is.

 

[Dangman]

There's not a SINGLE Asus Ivy board I'd choose over an AsRock as AsRock's are better built by PEGATRON unlike the new Asus` that're made by ECS... not to mention that the AsRock's are more feature packed/nicer looking and better P/P.

It's a matter of trust. AsRock still hasn't earned my trust yet. Especially after the HardOCP reviews of AsRock mobos. The second that HardOCP releases a review of an AsRock Z77 mobo and says that it's good, I'll start recommending AsRocks over Asus then. But in general, I'll be recommending Asus, Gigabyte, or MSI over AsRock unless AsRock is only suitable choice for that situation. In this situation, AsRock isn't the only suitable choice.

That's BS. The S12/M12 II design hasn't been updated ever since late 2007... it's GROUP regulated, NOT independant. No DC-DC convertion.

The S12/M12 II was released in 2010. Not sure where you got 2007 from.

Rather poor efficiency by today's standarts.

Poor? In the HardOCP review of the M12II, the PSU consistently hit 82% in efficiency. That's still pretty good by today's standards.

And how exactly is the Rosewill overpriced? It's priced excellently for what it is. You pay a premium for a TOP end unit and that is what it is.

That's the issue: The premium you're paying for isn't justified IMO. Platinum rating means very little:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu/
So in other words, Rosewill is overcharging you for a feature that basically means little to nothing. It's not modular nor is its actual perform so much better than its competitors to justify the price.

 

[johnnydoe]

It's a matter of trust. AsRock still hasn't earned my trust yet. Especially after the HardOCP reviews of AsRock mobos. The second that HardOCP releases a review of an AsRock Z77 mobo and says that it's good, I'll start recommending AsRocks over Asus then. But in general, I'll be recommending Asus, Gigabyte, or MSI over AsRock unless AsRock is only suitable choice for that situation. In this situation, AsRock isn't the only suitable choice.

Yes, and AsRock has certainly, def. and completely earned people's trust right within the release of the Fatal1ty P67 Pro, which they've kept up up until.

IDK why AsRock boards always seem to mess up on the reviews on here as every single enthuasiast is extremely happy with the very high OC capabilities, great UEFI and great looks of them.

And MSI and Gigabyte? Talk about shitty UEFI's.

The S12/M12 II was released in 2010. Not sure where you got 2007 from.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2327

Poor? In the HardOCP review of the M12II, the PSU consistently hit 82% in efficiency. That's still pretty good by today's standards

It has no DC-DC converters and uses shitty big old MOSFET drivers... as such, it's "low load efficiency" is downright poor.

That's the issue: The premium you're paying for isn't justified IMO. Platinum rating means very little:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu/
So in other words, Rosewill is overcharging you for a feature that basically means little to nothing. It's not modular nor is its actual perform so much better than its competitors to justify the price.

That link doesn't say Platinum rating means "very little". It says why "80 PLUS" is irrelevant as it's more of a marketing tool than something useful.

You're comparing Bronze to Platinum, that's about %10 more efficient so there IS some money to be saved back, unlike the say Silver to Gold comparisons. Not to mention the excessive heat to be pumped into the guy's room with the Bronze rated unit over the PLAT.

Rosewill isn't overcharging for anything. You don't understand PSU design or know what an LLC converter is. The topology is entirely different and much more modern. The chokes, coils etc. used cost twice as much as the components used on the S12.

And if you go ahead to look at it's actual review performance, you can see that it trumps the SeaSonic in regulation (especially at cross loads since it's INDEPENDANTLY regulated unlike the SeaSonic which is group regulated), transient response and dynamic response.

The S12 originally came out WAY back around 2004 and was ONLY updated in 2007 with a solid cap on it's VSB circuit and more modern MOSFET's to pump up the efficiency from plain 80 Plus to Bronze, and they also upgraded the caps from Taiwanese to Jap caps.

 

[Dangman]

Yes, and AsRock has certainly, def. and completely earned people's trust right within the release of the Fatal1ty P67 Pro, which they've kept up up until.

Like I said, MY trust. I'm not always going to rely on the trust of others.

IDK why AsRock boards always seem to mess up on the reviews on here as every single enthuasiast is extremely happy with the very high OC capabilities, great UEFI and great looks of them.

That's a blanket and unsubstantiated statement if I ever saw one. Really EVERY single enthusiast?

And MSI and Gigabyte? Talk about shitty UEFI's.

While I agree that MSI and GIgabyte's UEFI aren't as good as others, I'd still trust them over an AsRock.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2327

I stand corrected.

That link doesn't say Platinum rating means "very little". It says why "80 PLUS" is irrelevant as it's more of a marketing tool than something useful.

It doesn't say it but it shows it. The articles shows that that the difference in costs between a Platinum and regular 80Plus PSU was relatively small and would require you to run the PSU at full load for 24 hours a day to get any decent bit of return from the efficiency. So from that I can say Platinum means very little. Note that's not saying that it meanst nothing but just little.

You're comparing Bronze to Platinum, that's about %10 more efficient so there IS some money to be saved back, unlike the say Silver to Gold comparisons. Not to mention the excessive heat to be pumped into the guy's room with the Bronze rated unit over the PLAT.

Some money yes but as shown in the above article, the money you're saving isn't all that much and would take you quite a long time to make the price difference compared to a different PSU. Not necessarily the Seasonic M12II but something else.

And if you go ahead to look at it's actual review performance, you can see that it trumps the SeaSonic in regulation (especially at cross loads since it's INDEPENDANTLY regulated unlike the SeaSonic which is group regulated), transient response and dynamic response.

I've never once said the Rosewill performed worse than the Seasonic. I fully agree that the Rosewill will perform better than the Seasonic. However, again I just don't see the performance being high enough to justify going for $100 450W PSU. Not to mention that the Seasonic is modular whereas the Rosewill is not. So while you are correct that the Rosewill does come with higher-end and pricier parts, at the end of the day I don't think those make that much of a dramatic difference to justify $100 for a non modular 450W PSU.

 

[bennieboy2290]

This case caught my friends eye http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139013 Although the 400r and 1100 look nice, I'll show those to him as well.

I'll probably stick with the Asus mobo as it looks like it will do the job and satisfies his brand preference.

As for overclocking, he figured he would get the 3570K to run at stock, then be able to overclock it in a year or two as needed to be able to keep up (Did this strategy with my E8400 and its working great).

I figured his budget was high enough to have the convenience of a modular PSU and the one I linked seemed to be the best bang for the buck. the 650TX V2 was my 2nd choice but I think modular is worth any slight price premium. Any other good modular PSUs? I have Corsair's HX but they seem to be hard to find/expensive nowadays.

 

[Dangman]

This case caught my friends eye http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139013 Although the 400r and 1100 look nice, I'll show those to him as well.

That C70 is a solid case.

As for overclocking, he figured he would get the 3570K to run at stock, then be able to overclock it in a year or two as needed to be able to keep up (Did this strategy with my E8400 and its working great).

So he's ok spending the extra $50 to $85 for that overclocking option?

I figured his budget was high enough to have the convenience of a modular PSU and the one I linked seemed to be the best bang for the buck. the 650TX V2 was my 2nd choice but I think modular is worth any slight price premium. Any other good modular PSUs? I have Corsair's HX but they seem to be hard to find/expensive nowadays.

The HX 650 is still available for the same $120 it's been at for the past year:
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Profe...?ie=UTF8&qid=1358591438&sr=8-1&keywords=HX650

Other good modular PSUs include the Antec HCG-620M 620W, Rosewill Capstone series, Seasonic G Series, etc.

 

[bennieboy2290]

Here's an updated build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ynDm

Basically just added the 212 EVO, a DVD writer, and switched the case to the corsair c70. I also dropped the SSD down to the 250GB version.

 

[Dangman]

Looks ok to me.

 

[johnnydoe]

That's a blanket and unsubstantiated statement if I ever saw one. Really EVERY single enthusiast?

EVERY single enthuasiast "I read from". I've yet to read an unhappy AsRock user. Hell, people were even EXTREMELY pleased with the AsRock X58 boards. You're seem to be behind times.

While I agree that MSI and GIgabyte's UEFI aren't as good as others, I'd still trust them over an AsRock.

I had a P67-GD80 die on me out of nowhere. The BIOS sucked balls with that silly "Click BIOS" which required to confirm every single setting in UEFI twice...

I stand corrected.

And how is that when the original SeaSonic S12/M12 design came out in 2004 and was updated in 2007? You do realize SeaSonic hasn't made ANY updates to the design since 2007, right?

If you're referring to the JGuru 2010 review, that doesn't mean anything as he reviewed a unit that was available since 2007. More so, even in 2010, there were more modern and better units such as the True Power NEW's available

PC P&C painted them in white in late 2011 for the Silencer MK3 units, that is if you can call it an "update".

It doesn't say it but it shows it. The articles shows that that the difference in costs between a Platinum and regular 80Plus PSU was relatively small and would require you to run the PSU at full load for 24 hours a day to get any decent bit of return from the efficiency. So from that I can say Platinum means very little. Note that's not saying that it meanst nothing but just little.

Yes no. With a machine that idles at 100W, an OLD unit would be around %70 efficient at low loads while a new one would be close to %90. So that's 20W less heat pumped into your room. While it certainly doesn't make up for the price difference, over the time it adds up that is.

And it keeps your room cooler when you game (load) in those hot Summer room situations.

I've never once said the Rosewill performed worse than the Seasonic. I fully agree that the Rosewill will perform better than the Seasonic. However, again I just don't see the performance being high enough to justify going for $100 450W PSU. Not to mention that the Seasonic is modular whereas the Rosewill is not. So while you are correct that the Rosewill does come with higher-end and pricier parts, at the end of the day I don't think those make that much of a dramatic difference to justify $100 for a non modular 450W PSU.

Maybe. Still, while newer and SUPERIOR designs such as TX v2 and SeaSonic G-series are available, there's absolutely no point in getting the M12/S12. None at all. M12/S12 have been discontinued and replaced with G-Series late yesteryear.

 

[Prav]

EVERY single enthuasiast "I read from". I've yet to read an unhappy AsRock user. Hell, people were even EXTREMELY pleased with the AsRock X58 boards. You're seem to be behind times.

Are you being paid by AsRock to say this nonsense? They have current boards literally catching fire in the FM2 ITX. Are these your uber Pegatron made boards? The best AsRock boards in my opinion were the ones designed and produced in conjunction with Asus engineers. Pretty much every AsRock board since Z68/X79 is of much lesser quality overall. If anyone is behind the times, it may be you. Older Extreme Z68 3/4 were great while the current Z77 have obvious flaws. Maybe not noticed by the microcenter buyers on the cheap who are happy with 4.2 but anyone serious about such things reading this forum know better. Ever seen how hot Z77 E4 VRMS get especially in water cooled rigs with less air flow? How long do you think these boards will last? ASrock makes some really nice top end boards but at that price $200+ everyone offers similar or better features anyway. For the low and midrange items where they used to offer great value, I think they are cutting too many corners to be considered the go to choice these days.

 

[johnnydoe]

Are you being paid by AsRock to say this nonsense? They have current boards literally catching fire in the FM2 ITX. Are these your uber Pegatron made boards? The best AsRock boards in my opinion were the ones designed and produced in conjunction with Asus engineers. Pretty much every AsRock board since Z68/X79 is of much lesser quality overall. If anyone is behind the times, it may be you. Older Extreme Z68 3/4 were great while the current Z77 have serious flaws. Maybe not noticed by the microcenter buyers on the cheap who are happy with 4.2 but anyone serious about such things reading this forum know better. Ever seen how hot Z77 E4 VRMS get especially in water cooled rigs with less air flow? How long do you think these boards will last? ASrock makes some really nice top end boards but at that price $200+ everyone offers similar or better features anyway. For the low and midrange items where they used to offer great value, I think they are cutting too many corners to be considered the go to choice these days.

Nope. There may be ONE, single board catching fire. Look at the VRM on the Z68 boards, they can handle an EXTREME OC.

The best boards were the ones that were designed with Asus? PEGATRON, the old ASUS factory is now run by AsRock engineers. AsRock's current boards are ALL built by ASUS workers.

As for the Extreme4, it has no VRM issue at any rate. In fact, watercooling lets you open up the CPU area to put a fan on top of VRM. And it DOES NOT require active VRM cooling. The VRM on the Extreme4 will last longer than YOUR nonsense for sure. For a "I know better than you do", you're clueless about the overall built of these boards. And it's not like "everyone" offers better shit... currently, AsRock and Asus are the only ones that seem to be competing on the front row of the Ivy front.

 

[Prav]

Nope. There may be ONE, single board catching fire. Look at the VRM on the Z68 boards, they can handle an EXTREME OC.

Z68? I acknowledged their Z68 boards. I thought we were about talking the current generation designed by AsRock engineers. You know , the guys who designed a board that catches fire at stock speeds.

The best boards were the ones that were designed with Asus? PEGATRON, the old ASUS factory is now run by AsRock engineers. AsRock's current boards are ALL built by ASUS workers.

Workers only assemble what engineers design and spec. Asus engineers>AsRock engineers.

As for the Extreme4, it has no VRM issue at any rate. In fact, watercooling lets you open up the CPU area to put a fan on top of VRM. And it DOES NOT require active VRM cooling. The VRM on the Extreme4 will last longer than YOUR nonsense for sure. For a "I know better than you do", you're clueless about the overall built of these boards. And it's not like "everyone" offers better shit... currently, AsRock and Asus are the only ones that seem to be competing on the front row of the Ivy front

It does have VRM issues but thanks to Ivy low power requirements and heat caps coupled with the conservative nature of the majority of overclockers ,they are mostly going unnoticed. Saying they can be solved by adding additional cooling just means it was a poor design choice to begin with. Most buyers dont expect to need to add additional fans to motherboard components. Where is the value in that.

 

[johnnydoe]

Z68? I acknowledged their Z68 boards. I thought we were about talking the current generation designed by AsRock engineers.

And those boards more or less the share the EXACT same design/VRM's as their Z68 offerings.

Workers only assemble what engineers design and spec. Asus engineers>AsRock engineers.

And where did you get to that conclusion? You DO know the new Asus boards are made by ECS, right...?

It does have VRM issues but thanks to Ivy low power requirements and heat caps coupled with the conservative nature of the majority of overclockers ,they are mostly going unnoticed. Saying they can be solved by adding additional cooling just means it was a poor design choice to begin with. Most buyers dont expect to need to add additional fans to motherboard components. Where is the value in that.

No, it doesn't. You're spreading out lies and garbage.

Show me an occasion where there clearly is a VRM issue with the Z77 Extreme4.

 

[Prav]

And those boards more or less the share the EXACT same design/VRM's as their Z68 offerings.

Yes they do except they changed the names. The Z77 Extreme 4 is equal to the Z68 Extreme 3 VRM. To get a VRM similar to the quality of the Z68 E4 you have to buy the Z77 extreme 6. As an AsRock guru, you should know this. The Z77 Extreme 4 VRM is equal to lower range boards from the past generation.

Show me an occasion where there clearly is a VRM issue with the Z77 Extreme4.

Really not going to waste my time cross linking other forums and reviews when you can do this for yourself. I am sure you are aware of the issues just as you are aware that the Z77 Extreme 4 is of lesser build quality than the previous generations Z68 Extreme 4 despite the fact that you claim they are the same VRM. All Extreme 4 are clearly not created the same. These days you have to buy Extreme 6 or better .

 

[johnnydoe]

Yes they do except they changed the names. The Z77 Extreme 4 is equal to the Z68 Extreme 3 VRM. To get a VRM similar to the quality of the Z68 E4 you have to buy the Z77 extreme 6. As an AsRock guru, you should know this. The Z77 Extreme 4 VRM is equal to lower range boards from the past generatio.

And you, in no way, shape or form NEED as much VRM's as on the Extreme6. The Extreme4 VRM is perfectly serviceable for all but the extreme subzero OC'er.

Really not going to waste my time cross linking other forums and reviews when you can do this for yourself. I am sure you are aware of the issues just as you are aware that the Z77 Extreme 4 is of lesser build quality than the previous generations Z68 Extreme 4 despite the fact that you claim they are the same VRM. All Extreme 4 are clearly not created the same. These days you have to buy Extreme 6 or better.

Same chokes, yes. Same amount of rectifiers? Of course not as it's clearly intended towards budget machines.

Extreme4 IS of lesser build quality but it's build quality is WAY more than sufficient for just about anymore.

You're clueless. You believe just because it's a smaller board (PCB-size wise) and has LESS VRM's than the Extreme6, it's downright poor which doesn't mean shit.