120hz hardcore gamers happy with Korean ISP monitors?

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samduhman

[H]ard|Gawd
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Hey all,

I'm on the fence. I've gotten caught up on the Korean monitor hype train and not sure I should be.

I have a Samsung 27" 27A750D 120hz which I'm very happy with. I pretty much exclusively game. HATE ghosting/motion blur.

So my questions are..

Are any hardcore gamers happy with going from a 120hz TN panel to a Korean panel. It helps if you also hate ghosting/motion blur.

Is going from a 27" 120hz Samsung panel to a cheap Korean panel considered an upgrade?

Thats it for now. I'll follow up a few configuration questions once I have some feedback.

thanks!
 
It's looking like lightboost2 TNs are leaving both 120hz non-lightboost2 TN's and 1440p ips's a blurry mess in the rearview for a gaming monitor as far as I'm concerned, assuming the reports of the 96% ~ "crt clarity" and essentially zero blur reported by so many are correct. They aren't talking about half as much blur as 60hz -yet-still-a-mess, or a higher rez 1440 but a little worse than the "half of the blur-yet-still-a-mess" reduction.. they are talking about fully clear readability of text, texture, objects/scene elements with no smudge/smear/blur of any of the original material. I'm hoping to get a 1ms backlight lightboost2 monitor and a nvidia card sometime this year.


elvn said:
For me its not just about scoring/accuracy... I find smeared out high detail textures and depth via bumpmapping, nameplates, etc.. and all of the scene basically blurring extremely annoying during FoV movement. I know what an fw900 looks like and lcds , even "1/2 as much blur" or "nearly so "(ips) of 120hz non-lightboost lcds is nothing compared to full readability of texture, text and full scene clarity during FoV movemement. Even 70% would be blurring and not truly readable. These blur reductions rather than essentially full clarity are more like soften blur effects that stick closer to the shadow mask of an object so to speak, but that still makes for a fuzzy/blurry, unreadable detail mess during FoV movement. If crt-like , essentially full scene motion clarity is available on a gaming lcd I will definitely be upgrading to it sometime in the future, and I think it makes the 50% +/- blur reduction of non-lightboost2 TN vs ips argument moot as far as I'm concerned. Blurry lcds vs clear is no contest imo.
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elvn said:
sawk said:
I don't think I've seen this asked yet in this thread.

Has anyone compared this "Hack" with an IPS Panel? Maybe even a Yamakasi Catleap 2B OC Monitor that is at 120hz?

This may be like comparing apples to oranges since the resolutions are totally different but the thought did cross my mind.

I own one of the Yamakasi's and couldn't be happier, and may even order a 2nd. lol
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Better for Online Gaming, 120hz Strobed or 144hz Not Strobed?


You might also want to check the main lightboost 2 zero blur thread starting around post #300 .
ASUS/BENQ LightBoost owners!! Zero motion blur setting!

.
Click to expand...
 
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Would owning both be an option for you? I have a 120hz Samsung as well and its awesome for gaming. I don't think I could give up the Samsung for the Korean monitor all together, but both you would have the best of both worlds. Just my 2 cents...
 
I agree with Marduk. I have both 2560x1440 blurry-on-motion 60hz ips and a 120hz 1080p TN samsung A750D with about 1/2 as much blur. There are korean 120hz "overclocked" 2560x1440 ips' you can get that have a little worse than 1/2 the blur of a 60hz as well. Later this year I hope to get a gtx 780 (or two) and a 1ms backlight strobing lightboost2 1080p TN monitor for zero blur gaming. Hopefully will be able to sell my samsung which the lightboost2 monitor will replace, (and retire my fw900 graphics professional crt as well). Maybe by the time the gtx780's come out there will be more 1ms lightboost2 monitor options. Personally I'm hoping someone will release a glossy one.

The high ppi ips is gorgeous for everything outside of gaming. I wouldn't want to lose it. If I had to, I'd chose one based on what I do most, then save up for the other. Luckily, main system and *gpu requirements aside, both monitor's are a considerable bargain at around $350 or less for the korean and $280 for an asus VG248QE 1ms lightboost2 monitor.

*note that to get the most out of any 120hz and higher monitor's motion tracking, you need to maintain near to (or preferably higher than to reduce tearing) their hz in fps. So you'd want to maintain 120+ fps in order to get newer, more recent scene-action/tracking-data per hz at 120hz for example. A lightboost2 1ms backlight strobing monitor requires a nvidia card, and that you run at 100hz & 100fps+ , or 120hz & 120fps+ in order to result in zero blur 2D gaming.
 
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Thanks for the replies.

Lightboost is a no go for me since I just bought a new AMD 7950. I understand that's a Nvidia feature only.

My thought was to have both a 120hz and a Korean IPS where I would only play FPS games on the 120hz.

So I'm still considering if 2560x1440 is worth spending up to $400 for non FPS games? The resolution is pretty much the only reason I would upgrade. I saw an IPS next to TN panels in the store and while I saw the better viewing angles and richer color it wasn't worth $400 to me.

It's a shame the prices have been creeping up. It would have been a much easier decision at the earlier <$300 prices of last year. I feel the Koreans are going to start losing sales due to these increases. I'm already considering (if I decide to buy one) just getting the one from Microcenter since its a safer bet. Easier to return etc.
 
There aren't any, not really. There are some budget 60hz-panels where they have slapped on a pcb that allows you to raise the refreshrate manually. (The same exact panels as the mainstream monitor manufacturers use, except these use those that have been factory graded as lower quality).
The overdrive is also worse on most or all of these, and with panels that are originally barely able to refresh within a 60hz refreshrate, the end result just isn't pretty in motion. (they are around 6-8ms GTG, which is ~10-16ms ISO (actual slowest refresh).

Qnix (seems to be the best of these?), catleap, yamakasi are some examples, just search on ebay.

With those things said, they do provide great overall value, as they are the cheapest IPS/PLS 1440p you can get. I really don't recommend them for fast paced gaming.
I had one, and i could not stand it for more than a day. The sweet spot (imo) for these is 72hz.

Since I used a 120hz Samsung with the same panel as yours when i bought my Yamakasi, I can directly say that for me, it was a big downgrade. I gave it away after one day.
The Yamakasi only had the higher resolution going for it. Worse blacklevel/contrast, IPS-glow, heavy blur, more bleeding (though that is of course individual - high risk though, with low-grade panels and big hassle to return them).
 
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Is the rog swift going to be as crisp as lightboost 120hz monitors? I would pay premium for a monitor that had a higher resolution than the 1080p monitors and required no "hacking" to get the lightboost clarity at 120Hz. I just want it to work natively.
 
I have been on the same fence and this has helped me immensely.
It looks like i'm going to be stuck getting both

i had the benq gw2400 which was one of those few jack of all trades monitors, but trying to move on and wanted basically one of the best setups i can. The 1440p and need to oc the korean monitors sort of put me off (i hate turning down graphics so it would have added the overhead of crossfire)

i'm not sure if i'm going to wait for the swift or not though, i dont mind pricey, but that is the looking to come in close to the cost of a gaming lightboost TN and Korean IPS together.
 
Manaknight said:
I have been on the same fence and this has helped me immensely.
It looks like i'm going to be stuck getting both

i had the benq gw2400 which was one of those few jack of all trades monitors, but trying to move on and wanted basically one of the best setups i can. The 1440p and need to oc the korean monitors sort of put me off (i hate turning down graphics so it would have added the overhead of crossfire)

i'm not sure if i'm going to wait for the swift or not though, i dont mind pricey, but that is the looking to come in close to the cost of a gaming lightboost TN and Korean IPS together.
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Well if it does both, meaning 1440p 120Hz + lightboost, I don't mind paying them korean+lightboost monitor price for it,
AS LONG AS
it does it all natively. I am done hopping though 4 different websites, edit update and overwrite monitor and video card drivers, deal with resets etc... just make a monitor and make it work.
 
Andyk5 said:
Is the rog swift going to be as crisp as lightboost 120hz monitors? I would pay premium for a monitor that had a higher resolution than the 1080p monitors and required no "hacking" to get the lightboost clarity at 120Hz. I just want it to work natively.
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There are alot of answers in the PG278Q thread, but yes that is the idea.


http://www.blurbusters.com/lightboost-sequel-ultra-low-motion-blur-ulmb/
bakageta says:
January 2, 2014 at 4:58 pm

It actually gets it&#8217;s own hardware button on the kit&#8217;s monitor, as well, which makes it very convenient to enable/disable &#8211; it&#8217;s just to the left of the power button. I generally preferred G-Sync on, which meant ULMB wasn&#8217;t available, but on older games where I hold a solid huge FPS (or all of my 2D usage) it was quick and easy to enable. Hopefully a future update or revision allows for both G-Sync and ULMB, as that would truly be the best of both worlds.

ULMB is noticeably better than the lightboost hack on the same monitor, it&#8217;s still somewhat dimmer but it doesn&#8217;t wash out the colors or give any kind of tint to it. I don&#8217;t have a high-speed camera handy, or I&#8217;d take some sample pictures that could be compared against lightboost, however I&#8217;m sure blurbusters will jump in with these once the media ban is lifted. I&#8217;m quite impressed the improvements they made over straight lightboost, especially considering the kit has no settings for color tone or contrast.
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However be aware that to get the full benefit of 120hz outside of blur reduction/elimination, you should be averaging 120fps and that is very demanding to do even at 1080p on some games at higher settings let alone 2560x.

1-card / 2-card(sli) 780ti SC at 2560x
------------------------------------------
Batman
69 / 104

BF4
52 / 99

Bioshock Infinite
63 / 120

crysis 3
40 / 64

Metro: Last Light
35 / 62

Skyrim
106/ 122

Sleeping dogs
33 / 65

Tomb Raider
33 / 103
 
I just love my Tempest X270OC, 96Hz at 1440p is wonderful for gaming. Yes the blur is slightly worse than my Samsung S27A750D 1080p 120Hz TN, but overall I enjoy it far more for the immersive gaming experience at high resolution. I am very excited about the ASUS ROG Swift, but I am worried the picture quality may be lower than that of my Overlord. We'll see!
 
elvn said:
There are alot of answers in the PG278Q thread, but yes that is the idea.


http://www.blurbusters.com/lightboost-sequel-ultra-low-motion-blur-ulmb/



However be aware that to get the full benefit of 120hz outside of blur reduction/elimination, you should be averaging 120fps and that is very demanding to do even at 1080p on some games at higher settings let alone 2560x.

1-card / 2-card(sli) 780ti SC at 2560x
------------------------------------------
Batman
69 / 104

BF4
52 / 99

Bioshock Infinite
63 / 120

crysis 3
40 / 64

Metro: Last Light
35 / 62

Skyrim
106/ 122

Sleeping dogs
33 / 65

Tomb Raider
33 / 103
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am on a GTX680 SLi config and I do not mind dropping anti aliasing completely and even toning down shadows and some water effects to get to 120fps. As you increase the detail in games your return on investment drops significantly. In many games, just to get a bit sharper shadows which I don't pay attention mostly, you end up losing 10-15 fps. I think on a scale of Ultra to low, 2560x1440, Off on "antialiasing", "medium" on shadows, "High" on everything else usually gets me 100+fps on every demanding game I play. When it comes to games like star craft,EvE Online or most MMO's I'll hit 200+fps easily. I really could not care less about playing BF4 on Ultra@120fps@2560x1440.
 
If you hate ghosting/motion blur, a Korean 1440 IPS is not the screen to get. Overclocking it doesn't do anything for the pixel speed which is very slow on those panels. Tons of blur.
 
NukeDukem said:
I just love my Tempest X270OC, 96Hz at 1440p is wonderful for gaming. Yes the blur is slightly worse than my Samsung S27A750D 1080p 120Hz TN, but overall I enjoy it far more for the immersive gaming experience at high resolution. I am very excited about the ASUS ROG Swift, but I am worried the picture quality may be lower than that of my Overlord. We'll see!
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What is Overlord doing over there? They have all this hype surrounding their binned Korean monitors which they've built nice housings for, and they are out of stock presumably forever?
 
If you're into hardcore competitive gaming I would go with a GSYNC/ULMB monitor.

For games that you can get 100+ frame rates the clarity of low persistence (ULMB) is mind blowing. (ex. http://testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=toronto-map.png&pps=960&pursuit=0&height=0 you can't read the street names at all on a normal monitor, with a low persistence monitor the street names are as clear as if the map was still)

For games where you can't get a stable frame rate the smoothness of GSYNC is mind blowing.
 
Bluesun311 said:
What is Overlord doing over there? They have all this hype surrounding their binned Korean monitors which they've built nice housings for, and they are out of stock presumably forever?
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They had pre-orders available this last fall, I had my pre-order in December 2 and I received delivery of the monitor December 23, so I had to wait 3 weeks but it was worth it. The Matte version was sold out entirely during the pre-order period, but I continued to check the Glossy page and it was available for at least a month after they received the stock.

I'm not sure how often they get the shipments, everything is sold out now but they do claim to be opening for new pre-orders soon.
 
those monitors are good cause of reduced input lag, stutter and tearing but otherwise won't be much faster than typical 60Hz IPS

hardcore gamers will invest in LightBoost monitor cause it destroys such IPS in motion clarity
 
XoR said:
those monitors are good cause of reduced input lag, stutter and tearing but otherwise won't be much faster than typical 60Hz IPS
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I respectfully disagree. The difference between 60 fps and 90+ fps is very noticeable, even on IPS. I am quite sensitive to it, in fact I originally ditched my big high res ZR30w in favor of the 1080p Samsung because I simply can't stand 60Hz and was willing to downgrade in resolution to get better motion clarity.

The Tempest at 96Hz is leagues ahead of the ZR30w at 60Hz. I even forgot to overclock the Tempest last time I updated my video drivers, and I immediately noticed something was wrong when I fired up BF4. Sure enough it had been set to the default 60Hz.

While it certainly won't give you lightboost clarity, the difference between 60 and 96 on an IPS is night and day at least for me.
 
yeah like I linked in my previous post, there is more advantage to high hz than just blur reduction/elimination.

My current samsung A750D 120hz 1080p only reduces blur around 50% vs 60hz, but the other benefits are huge too.

Blur elimination is essential though imo, and will be for VR as well. I'm looking fwd to getting a backlight strobing monitor this year. It will be the first with that level of blur elimination to go with high fps+high hz since I had a fw900.

elvn said:
....
If you aren't supplying a more recent, unique frame of action to the new screen update(hz).. for example, 60fps on a 120hz monitor.. you are basically just seeing a freeze-frame of the last outdated frame of action for 16.6ms (compared to a 8.3ms per action slice update 120fps@120hz user).


60hz-120hz-30-15_onesecondframe.jpg


More unique action frames at 120hz only when fed a new action frame slice in that hz
(otherwise "freeze-framed", skipping slices of world action/animation states).
This graphic is inaccurate because it shows 5 frames vs 3 frames where 120hz@120fps vs 60hz/60fps would be a doubling, 6 more recent action slice frames to every 3, so even greater motion definition difference than shown.

120hz-vs-60hz-gaming.jpg


Borrowed toastyX's pics. Desktop rendering always has enough frames/second to fill 120hz so is an easy example. However other than the motion path , it isn't an animated object in itself. Higher fps+hz together show greater animation definition as well as motion definition.

120hz-compared_mouse-60hz.jpg


120hz-compared_mouse-120hz.jpg


There is a 120fps game recorded movie sample here, but of course you need a 120hz monitor to see 120frames/second on it. I don't think it shows a 60fps cut during it though unfortunately.
http://www.blurbusters.com/hfr-120fps-video-game-recording/
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1000hz with a fast enough monitor would be enough to get zero blur without using backlight strobing from what I've read, but that isn't going to happen any time soon.

Don't forget that the hz number is not the same effect without supplying more recent game world and animation state slices to fill those hz. Having a higher hz ceiling gives you more room to achieve higher motion+animation definition and motion tracking via higher fps.

You can definitely tell the difference between 30 - 40 fps .. 60fps, and 120fps in regard to motion tracking/definition and animation definition.

The swf examples below don't show 120fps. Though better than the first two swf examples, can still see the stuttering at 60fps, at least I can.
(Much like I can tell how much better my mouse paths and draws at 120hz on the desktop.
http://www.web-cyb.org/images/lcds/120hz-compared_mouse-60hz.jpg
http://www.web-cyb.org/images/lcds/120hz-compared_mouse-120hz.jpg )

I want to eventually record a fraps video of some game character in animated motion or jumping or something and edit it to different fps rates (30, 40, 60, 120). Of course if you show a 120fps+120hz example, you wouldn't be able to see the difference on a 60hz monitor unless the videos were all in slow motion, slowed by half.

http://boallen.com/assets/flash/fps-compare/fps-compare-15fps.swf

http://boallen.com/assets/flash/fps-compare/fps-compare-30fps.swf

http://boallen.com/assets/flash/fps-compare/fps-compare-60fps.swf

.
 
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Imo, the real "next thing" likely will be the oculus rift, whose current prototype also uses high refresh rates and backlight strobing/screen blanking of some sort to eliminate blur.

http://www.web-cyb.org/hardware-info/oculus-rift_ces-interview-transcript.htm

It's worth noting that, this technology will continue to be important for VR for a very long time. It's not a hack that gets around some issue we have right now. Until we get to displays and engines that can render at 1000 frames a second and can display at 1000hz basically displaying whole persistence frames that are as short as our low persistence frames, there's going to be no other way to get a good VR experience.
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low persistence is a breakthrough. In that it was unexpected..it was, we did not expect to see the kind of jump in quality that we saw - where we said this isn't just one of those "every little bit helps" , it is a killer - it completely changes the way that, it completely changes the experience.. fundamentally."
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I have a qnix qx2710 and absolutely love it.. No problems at all it has the MOST CRISP display I have ever had. It's truly amazinG! 110hz too!
 
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