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120 Hz Monitors... FPS?
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SnafuPossum
n00b
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Uhhh, trying to understand your question ill try to give the answer you are looking for. There is no "performance gains" per say, it is all visual. A 60hz monitor can only display 60fps while a 120hz can display 120fps. Lets say your playing a game running at 70fps, a 60hz monitor will only physically show 60fps, while the 120hz will show all 70 frames in the given second. The idea behind 120hz monitors is they allow more fluid motion and will allow slightly better reaction time because the brain can comprehend slightly faster since its being fed visuals at a faster rate. It could make the difference between killing and being killed in a first person shooter.
However you will only benefit from the added 60 frames a second if your system will run higher then 60fps in a given game title.
However you will only benefit from the added 60 frames a second if your system will run higher then 60fps in a given game title.
Yes.
Also, another advantage of 120hz monitors, is that in some cases they have better pixel overdrive systems which allow them to compensate for ghosting better than 60hz monitors, achieving low perceived response times. The main advantage of this is, in fast turns (in shooters) you'll still be able to clearly see what's going on as you do a quick 180, while on most lcds everything blurs and stutters. The Samsung S27A750D and S27A950D are two monitors that do this particularly well.
That's the primary reason I bought a 120hz monitor. 120 fps will be nice when I can get it, but almost completely eliminating ghosting is even better.
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Definitely need a beefy rig to get the most benefit from 120Hz, obviously you will need to beat 60FPS to gain any advantage from the 120Hz monitor
I have the 27" Samsung 750D and it's a fantastic gaming experience when I break 100+ FPS, it beats my 60Hz 30" 2560x1600 monitor for sure.
I have the 27" Samsung 750D and it's a fantastic gaming experience when I break 100+ FPS, it beats my 60Hz 30" 2560x1600 monitor for sure.
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SnafuPossum
n00b
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should of added the ghosting part haha, but most non bargain lcd's have little to no ghosting. I personally have a samsung xl2370, its slightly aged being one of the first mainstream LED monitors but ghosting is non existent. People always ask how I am so good at games, I tell them its my monitor not me, which is very true unfortunately 
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I disagree with people who say you need a beefy rig to enjoy 120hz. I'm playing on a GTS450 backup card and my games are significantly smoother than with the 60hz screen I have. The screen updates 120 times per second regardless of the FPS of the video card, so what you end up seeing is repeated frames, similar to the interpolation present on most 120/240hz televisions. It translates into a smoother experience regardless of how fast your card is.
Note that this only applies to using vsync, as it will not update at asymmetrical frame rates (say 50fps, it does not divide into 120 as a whole number). If you're at 40fps, you get 3 refresh cycles for each frame which "feels" smoother even though your performance isn't that great. Turning vsync off in a case like this would only result in a lot of tearing. If you have tons of GPU power you can turn vsync off and use a frame cap to eliminate that problem.
Note that this only applies to using vsync, as it will not update at asymmetrical frame rates (say 50fps, it does not divide into 120 as a whole number). If you're at 40fps, you get 3 refresh cycles for each frame which "feels" smoother even though your performance isn't that great. Turning vsync off in a case like this would only result in a lot of tearing. If you have tons of GPU power you can turn vsync off and use a frame cap to eliminate that problem.
wonderfield
Supreme [H]ardness
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On an LCD, a frame repeated twice is no different than a frame held twice as long. The intensity of each pixel doesn't change if the data does not change.
120hz monitors don't do interpolation at all (thank god) - so no, it is nothing like what the 120/240hz TVs do. If you are only running at 60fps, having a 120hz monitor doesn't do squat. It isn't smoother at all - it's the exact same "smoothness" because both are displaying the exact same thing for the exact same amount of time.
Eriksrocks
Limp Gawd
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For those with 120Hz monitors - does the percievable change in framerate at rates above 60fps (say, back and forth from 70fps to 95fps or similar) bother you vs. a capped percieved 60fps? I worry that if I ever get a 120Hz monitor, I'll be able to see the changes in framerate above 60fps that I couldn't see before and it would bother me, seeing as being capped at 60 provides a nice consistency and is already buttery enough for me.
needmorecarnitine
Supreme [H]ardness
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oh how i miss my crt running at 120hz... your brain really does get rewired and accustomed to the buttery smoothness of high refresh rates (well at least my brain). I really want to check out these 120hz lcds but I'm fairly happy w/ my current lcd display.
Nasty_Savage
Extremely [H]
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Dips don't really bother me. Playing WoW sometimes I'll go from 120 FPS to 79 in certain areas and it doesn't phase me at all. Its sweet though and I would concur that its totally worth it. Thinking of picking up 2 more after I set up my new desk and Kep gets here today Just got to find a decent Display Port to dual link adapter...
Just got to find a decent Display Port to dual link adapter...
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Yeah, that'll be the time when I hop over to 120 Hz. Not before.
Dips don't really bother me. Playing WoW sometimes I'll go from 120 FPS to 79 in certain areas and it doesn't phase me at all. Its sweet though and I would concur that its totally worth it. Thinking of picking up 2 more after I set up my new desk and Kep gets here today
A dip in an mmo doesn't mean anything. I mean, you can play them at 20fps without a lot of trouble. For a fps it makes a much bigger difference.
Stayfr0sty
Gawd
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If you turn off vsync for benchmarking it doesnt matter your monitors refresh rate.....
dgz
Supreme [H]ardness
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Actually it's quite the oposite with a 120Hz monitor - vsync defeats the very purpose of that high refresh rate as it introduces lag and may gery well cut your FPS in half in a lot of situations.
Stayfr0sty
Gawd
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Im talking about benchmarking..... I said turn vsync off for benching.
And in any case as for gaming with vsync on @120 hz, two words:
Tripple Buffering.
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HDMI 1.4a can if it is supported by both. I don't know of any combinations that actually have this though.
This is incorrect.
Even if your video card can only output 60fps, a 120hz display can display you those frames quicker than the 60hz.
For example, running at 60fps:
A 60hz display will display you those frames with a delay between 0-16.6ms.
A 120hz display will display you those frames with a delay between 0-8.3ms.
What this means is, that even at 60fps, a 120hz display will bring you closer from the past to the now (display wise).
yeah it will show you those frames twice as fast, but you will be getting each frame displayed twice in a row, so the net effect is the same, with each unique frame being displayed for 16.6ms.
wonderfield
Supreme [H]ardness
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This is true, but assuming for the sake of simplicity that frame output is perfectly synchronized with the refresh interval, you will see two identical frames, each for a period of 8.3ms, if you're rendering at 60 Hz. Which is obviously of no real benefit.
That is one of the benefits but the 120hz monitors came on the market because that is what is needed for 3D on an LCD.
Incorrect and correct. While it may display the same frame twice in a row, a 120hz display will still get that frame to your eyes sooner than a 60hz display, thus reducing your overall latency.
You have two things working to get the image to your eyes as fast as possible.
Graphics card frame rendering time.
Display drawing time.
Assuming we're not V-Synced:
In a 60hz environment, lets say I am a display and just rendered a frame, but you want to give me a new one to display. Well now you have to wait the full 1000/60 delay before I can display that frame to the user.
In a 120hz environment, I can render the frame to the user sooner as I am giving them new images at a rate of 1000/120.
wonderfield
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Which means your frame rate is momentarily 120 fps. If you're locked at a steady 60 Hz, the first frame, the last frame and every frame in between takes 16.67ms to complete. The 120 Hz display will display each of these frames twice and will not have the opportunity to draw them any less frequently.
In order for latency to be reduced, the frame rate must be increased. Even if it's for a single frame (which you really don't want anyway).
Correct, but as I said, the 120hz can get those frames to the user quicker, and thus reducing overall latency.
If you can't increase the frame rate, like in our example, decreasing the latency of the display is another way to reduce your overall latency.
60hz->120hz does that.
Going with a lower response display can also do this.
If you can't increase the frame rate, like in our example, decreasing the latency of the display is another way to reduce your overall latency.
60hz->120hz does that.
Going with a lower response display can also do this.
You only described the worst case. Best case is the frame finishes rendering right before the monitor would display the frame, thus each monitor shows the frame immediately - no waiting. You can actually force this best case to happen - it's called vsync.
If your fps is ~60, the difference between 60hz and 120hz monitor is squat - they are identical for all intents and purposes (again, assuming the game is running at 60fps)
And this is also ignoring the lag the monitor itself adds. That 120hz display could *always* have higher latency than a 60hz monitor, depending on its internal circuitry. This varies from model to model.
Add the worst case (16ms) and the best case (0ms, same) and average them out with what is likely to happen says that 120hz can display your frames for you in half the time the 60hz can.
It's not squat.
It's the difference of 0-16ms to 0-8ms.
Add that on top of the already large delays most LCD's have over CRT's and you get some rather unpleasant numbers.
Also, these #'s are assuming the 60hz and 120hz displays have the same amount of image display lag.
If you saw two displays with an response time of 5ms compared to 2ms, which one would you pick? All these things add up.
Bottom line is, even at 60fps, a display in 120hz will display you your frames sooner rather than that same display in 60hz mode. You're still limited to 60 frames/sec, but on average, you'll get them just a tad bit sooner.
It's not squat.
It's the difference of 0-16ms to 0-8ms.
Add that on top of the already large delays most LCD's have over CRT's and you get some rather unpleasant numbers.
Also, these #'s are assuming the 60hz and 120hz displays have the same amount of image display lag.
If you saw two displays with an response time of 5ms compared to 2ms, which one would you pick? All these things add up.
Bottom line is, even at 60fps, a display in 120hz will display you your frames sooner rather than that same display in 60hz mode. You're still limited to 60 frames/sec, but on average, you'll get them just a tad bit sooner.