10 bit/HDR on Windows. Is it Fixed? Nvidia?

edo101

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So I am trying to see what are my options when it comes to getting the best PQ possible I can get from my card

I have a C6 OLED. Though its only HDR10 and DV, I'll assume I can do HDR because Windows gives me the option to do it

However when enabled it looks washed out. What sort of settings are the best for possibly getting HDR or is it a mess

Things I've tried. 4:4:4 with deep color
4:4:4 without deep color. Seems to look less washed out

Does it matter if I have HDR on Windows or is it better to use YCBCr 4:2:2 and pick 10 bpc?
 

Mchart

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HDR has nothing to do with 10-bit. You should be getting HDR with standard 8-bit RGB. Although you could have HDR with 10-bit RGB as well.

What do you mean it is washed out? Is it just washed out in windows, but looks fine in HDR games/video content?

Generally this is likely a display issue, not a windows isue.
 

edo101

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HDR has nothing to do with 10-bit. You should be getting HDR with standard 8-bit RGB. Although you could have HDR with 10-bit RGB as well.

What do you mean it is washed out? Is it just washed out in windows, but looks fine in HDR games/video content?

Generally this is likely a display issue, not a windows isue.
I actually cant select 10bpc on RGB. Only way I can pick 10bpc or higher is by switching to YCBCr 4:2:2

And I mean washed out as in the colors are faded, screen is grayed out.
 

defaultluser

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Right now on my LG C7 I have 8-bits, RGB, full color range, with HDR off. BUT when I turn HDR on, the Nvidia control panel continues to report 8-bit, RGB full.

HDMI 2.0 doesn't have the bandwidth to do RGB at 10-bit color, so I think Windows overrides the Nvidia display control panel. It still says 8-bit when we're clearly in HDR mode (both the TV and Windows report mode change, and Youtube HDR videos are noticeably improved).

Therefore, you will always have to choose between 4:2:2 10-bit and 4:4:4 8-bit. I run it normally at 8-bit for bvrowsing anfd=d playing non-HDR games.

Just a warning about color: the LG OLED seems to have somewhat off colors while in HDR PC mode (according to the really picky people), so don't expect miracles unless you switch to Game mode. But I get pretty good colors by selecting Technicolor Expert under PC mode, it's under Picture Mode Settings
 
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Mchart

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I actually cant select 10bpc on RGB. Only way I can pick 10bpc or higher is by switching to YCBCr 4:2:2

And I mean washed out as in the colors are faded, screen is grayed out.
This means you are hitting max bandwidth of your connection. What refresh rate and resolution are you running?

This will have nothing to do with washed out colors, however.
 

cybereality

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It's sort of a mess. I think Windows just has shoddy support.

Fullscreen games will work fine, but the Windows desktop doesn't work in HDR well (at least not unless I'm missing something).

One thing you can try is this screen:

upload_2019-2-21_20-25-40.png


This is in Display Settings -> Windows HD Color Settings. Scroll to the bottom and move that slider to the right.

It helps, but honestly Windows just doesn't look good in HDR. It's all gray and washed out. If there is a way to fix this proper, please let me know.

However, since only a few games even work in HDR, it's not too bad clicking the HDR switch every time, not ideal though.
 

edo101

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This means you are hitting max bandwidth of your connection. What refresh rate and resolution are you running?

This will have nothing to do with washed out colors, however.
I notice I can only select 10bpc when I am in YCB mode and only after I have dropped down to 59Hz or lower. However I don't think my TV is recieving HDR signal even with WIndows HDR enabled. It looks washed out but my TV when it typically detects HDR signal changes my picutre mode to HDR. I don't see this happen.

I don't know if its because I am not playing an HDR movie but I doubt it. I believe if Windows is indeed in HDR mode, my TV if it gets the right signal would change to HDR mode
 

defaultluser

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HDR has nothing to do with 10-bit. You should be getting HDR with standard 8-bit RGB. Although you could have HDR with 10-bit RGB as well.

What do you mean it is washed out? Is it just washed out in windows, but looks fine in HDR games/video content?

Generally this is likely a display issue, not a windows isue.
No, the very definition of HDR10 is that it uses 10-bit color mode.

8-bit color under sRGB = True Color.
10-bit color with rec 2020 = HDR10.


Please stop posing in this thread like you have any idea of what you are talking about.

Windows will only enable the HDR option under Display Settings if it detects you have good HDMI 2.0 cable, and it automatically switches your color depth and chroma subsampling when you switch HDR on
 
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Mchart

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No, the very definition of HDR10 is that it uses 10-bit color mode.

8-bit color under sRGB = True Color.
10-bit color with rec 2020 = HDR10.


Please stop posing in this thread like you have any idea of what you are talking about.

Windows will only enable the HDR option under Display Settings if it detects you have good HDMI 2.0 cable, and it automatically switches your color depth and chroma subsampling when you switch HDR on
Actually, I do. I'm connected to a HDR10 display right now, and I don't need to push 10-bit to still have HDR. It's just not HDR10 at that point.

But you're the pro. Got it.
 

edo101

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It's sort of a mess. I think Windows just has shoddy support.

Fullscreen games will work fine, but the Windows desktop doesn't work in HDR well (at least not unless I'm missing something).

One thing you can try is this screen:

View attachment 143560

This is in Display Settings -> Windows HD Color Settings. Scroll to the bottom and move that slider to the right.

It helps, but honestly Windows just doesn't look good in HDR. It's all gray and washed out. If there is a way to fix this proper, please let me know.

However, since only a few games even work in HDR, it's not too bad clicking the HDR switch every time, not ideal though.
Ah thats good to know. So Windows desktop itself is not in HDR mode. Only when you are playing games? I ask this because I have some HDR MKVs i played with default Media player classic but the TV didn't see it as HDR. However when the same MKV is played with the TVs media player it is HDR

I thought my TV might be faulty because in this video, his OLED is in HDR mode. Mine isn't on Windows desktop:
at 3:09
 

Mchart

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What is your monitor presenting to windows?

Things should be working correctly, I know with my HDR10 display, regardless if i'm pushing 10-bit or not, Windows will decide to push EOTF-2084 - Not REC 2020. Only when I go into games will Windows then decide out of no where to decide to push REC 2020 assuming the game is still pushing 10-bit, or it's still an HDR game but only doing 2084.

If you pull up dxdiag, hit save all system information, and undert 'Monitor Capabilities' it should show what is capable of being pushed.

For instance, on mine -

Monitor Capabilities: HDR Supported (BT2020RGB BT2020YCC Eotf2084Supported )

Advanced Color: AdvancedColorSupported AdvancedColorEnabled
 

defaultluser

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Ah thats good to know. So Windows desktop itself is not in HDR mode. Only when you are playing games? I ask this because I have some HDR MKVs i played with default Media player classic but the TV didn't see it as HDR. However when the same MKV is played with the TVs media player it is HDR

I thought my TV might be faulty because in this video, his OLED is in HDR mode. Mine isn't on Windows desktop:
at 3:09
No, the Windows Desktop supports full HDR, they just haven't gone to the trouble of making it automatically look good yet, be cause it's in sRGB color space.

You should be able to get HDR working in a video player. I was able to get this movie working when I turned on HDR.


One thing I noticed is that you have to change your TV's Color Gamut to Auto, or HDR didn't work for me (picture-> Picture mode settings-> Expert Controls). That, and you should try a different cable.

Alsol, make sure you have deep color turned on for the input, under general->HDMI Deep color
 
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edo101

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What is your monitor presenting to windows?

Things should be working correctly, I know with my HDR10 display, regardless if i'm pushing 10-bit or not, Windows will decide to push EOTF-2084 - Not REC 2020. Only when I go into games will Windows then decide out of no where to decide to push REC 2020 assuming the game is still pushing 10-bit, or it's still an HDR game but only doing 2084.

If you pull up dxdiag, hit save all system information, and undert 'Monitor Capabilities' it should show what is capable of being pushed.

For instance, on mine -

Monitor Capabilities: HDR Supported (BT2020RGB BT2020YCC Eotf2084Supported )

Advanced Color: AdvancedColorSupported AdvancedColorEnabled
Monitor Model: LG TV RVU
Monitor Id: GSM0001
Native Mode: 3840 x 2160(p) (60.000Hz)
Output Type: Displayport External
Monitor Capabilities: HDR Supported (BT2020RGB BT2020YCC Eotf2084Supported )
Display Pixel Format: DISPLAYCONFIG_PIXELFORMAT_32BPP
 

edo101

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No, the Windows Desktop supports full HDR, they just haven't gone to the trouble of making it automatically look good yet, be cause it's in sRGB color space.

You should be able to get HDR working in a video player. I was able to get this movie working when I turned on HDR.


One thing I noticed is that you have to change your TV's Color Gamut to Auto, or HDR didn't work for me (picture-> Picture mode settings-> Expert Controls). That, and you should try a different cable.

Alsol, make sure you have deep color turned on for the input, under general->HDMI Deep color
Everything checks out except for color gamut. That optoin is greyed out. Is it because I switched my input to PC Mode? Should i switch my input to normal HDMI? My color gamut is greyed out with the wide gamut option
 

edo101

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Mchart

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Did you apply the displayport 1.4 update to your 1080ti? HDR should work out of the box, but I know without that update there can be issues.

The cable idea isn't a bad one - But I personally haven't ever seen a bad cable cause washed out video / no HDR. It's either you've got a signal, or you don't, and you say Windows allows you to switch to HDR.

To me it sounds like a setting on your display itself, not the computer based off the information you've provided.
 
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defaultluser

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Maybe try that DP1.4 adapter I linked earlier? Could be a somewhat broken HDMI port?

That's the only other suggestion I can make if you can't try a different HDMI cable.

In the world of digital displays, everything is designed "to spec," but not every port or cable that leaves the factory is made CORRECTLY. That's why I recommend you start with a DIFFERENT model of shorter cable.
 

edo101

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Did you apply the displayport 1.4 update to your 1080ti? HDR should work out of the box, but I know without that update there can be issues.

The cable idea isn't a bad one - But I personally haven't ever seen a bad cable cause washed out video / no HDR. It's either you've got a signal, or you don't.
I have the latest drivers. Is there some update i need to download seperately? I'll also check and see if my C6 is compartible with Windows's version of HDR. The C6 was released late 2016
 

Mchart

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I have the latest drivers. Is there some update i need to download seperately? I'll also check and see if my C6 is compartible with Windows's version of HDR. The C6 was released late 2016
Based on your DXDIAG output it is. I don't think that's the issue.

Here's the update - https://www.nvidia.com/object/nv-uefi-update-x64.html

Although I doubt that will fix your issue. It's mostly just to fix a black screen on startup.
 

cybereality

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For people wondering about the "washed out" colors, it has to do with how Windows handles SDR content (including the Windows desktop and all non-HDR apps) when HDR is enable. See here and here:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3269591/computers/windows-10-april-2018-update-hdr-settings.html
https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/04/sln308136/colors-are-faded-and-washed-out-when-high-dynamic-range-is-enabled-in-windows-10?lang=en

However, I just realized that games can switch to HDR mode themselves, even with HDR disabled in Windows. This basically fixes everything, for some reason I never tested that.

Spent some time tweaking settings tonight and Far Cry 5 looks much more natural with HDR.
 

Mchart

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For people wondering about the "washed out" colors, it has to do with how Windows handles SDR content (including the Windows desktop and all non-HDR apps) when HDR is enable. See here and here:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3269591/computers/windows-10-april-2018-update-hdr-settings.html
https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/04/sln308136/colors-are-faded-and-washed-out-when-high-dynamic-range-is-enabled-in-windows-10?lang=en

However, I just realized that games can switch to HDR mode themselves, even with HDR disabled in Windows. This basically fixes everything, for some reason I never tested that.

Spent some time tweaking settings tonight and Far Cry 5 looks much more natural with HDR.
It's not all games. Most - But there are some that require the setting to be on. It's lame.

But the OP is having washed out colors everywhere - Not just within Windows.
 

defaultluser

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For people wondering about the "washed out" colors, it has to do with how Windows handles SDR content (including the Windows desktop and all non-HDR apps) when HDR is enable. See here and here:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3269591/computers/windows-10-april-2018-update-hdr-settings.html
https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/04/sln308136/colors-are-faded-and-washed-out-when-high-dynamic-range-is-enabled-in-windows-10?lang=en

However, I just realized that games can switch to HDR mode themselves, even with HDR disabled in Windows. This basically fixes everything, for some reason I never tested that.

Spent some time tweaking settings tonight and Far Cry 5 looks much more natural with HDR.

That only works when you have the HDR switch working in the first place. The OP does not, because of HDMI issues.
 

edo101

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That only works when you have the HDR switch working in the first place. The OP does not, because of HDMI issues.
I'm not sure if HDR works or not. All I know is that Windows can tell my display can handle it. When i switch it on, I get the expected wash out look but my TVs picture settings dont switch to HDR. I tried playing an MKV HDR on media player classic still nothing. The only thing i have not done is youtube or a HDR enabled game. I don't think I have any HDR titles? Which ones are available?
 

edo101

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Something annoying I am noticing... and I am not sure if it;s because of my PCs limitations but everytime I dial up my settings in 4K. the gfx card output dies. I bough tthe card second hand. I will prbly have to RMA to make sure in a couple of weeks.

My system seems to be having issues playing games at uber settings.

I do have an old set up. i7 930 with 6GB ram and PCI-E 2.0. My powersupply is a corsair bronze RM750
 

edo101

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Toggling on all Gameworks features on AK BSOD my computer. Stop Code: Memory managent
 

edo101

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Sorry, I saw this and assumed you were using DP:



Try a different cable?
Yes you are right. I was using DP to HDMI 2.0 adapter. I plugged the HDMI straight into the HDMI port and now HDR is working. But its all washed out still
 
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cybereality

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Please check the links I posted above. They explain the washed out problem and how to tweak it (we need to wait for Microsoft to fix it).
 

edo101

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Please check the links I posted above. They explain the washed out problem and how to tweak it (we need to wait for Microsoft to fix it).
I fixed mine by changing my PC icon to HDMI. That fixed the color in a snap. Its not perfect but its definetly way more saturated now. Removing my DP adapter fixed like 80% of my HDR issues.

I have a new issue. My games like AC Origins, GTA V, and Arkham Knight keep crashing on higher settings. AC Origins and GTA V seem to run when the settings are lowered. Is this some card issue, driver issue, or my old system failing? I don;t think it's a PSU problem because the system doesn't restart.I didn't have these issues with my 290. Setting would change and games would run slow as aspected on a weaker card like it. But with this 1080 ti, dialing up the settings kills the games. and sometimes the video output.

Oddly enogugh, Witcher 3, and Ace Combat 7 run fine.
 
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defaultluser

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I fixed mine by changing my PC icon to HDMI. That fixed the color in a snap. Its not perfect but its definetly way more saturated now. Removing my DP adapter fixed like 80% of my HDR issues.

I have a new issue. My games like AC Origins, GTA V, and Arkham Knight keep crashing on higher settings. AC Origins and GTA V seem to run when the settings are lowered. Is this some card issue, driver issue, or my old system failing? I don;t think it's a PSU problem because the system doesn't restart.I didn't have these issues with my 290. Setting would change and games would run slow as aspected on a weaker card like it. But with this 1080 ti, dialing up the settings kills the games. and sometimes the video output.

Oddly enogugh, Witcher 3, and Ace Combat 7 run fine.
how much ram do you have, and how many cores is the rest of your system?

Setting features to 4k can demand larger local buffers in your system ram. Do you see the same issues when you use the same settings as your old card?
 
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bluesynk

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Pc mode on hdr TVs seems to be an rgb compatibility mode, and disables any hdr on my set. It is my understanding that movies max out at 4:2:2.

For gaming I use 4:2:2 same with movies using madvr to render hdr. Normal desktop I toggle off HDR in windows.
 

Armenius

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I fixed mine by changing my PC icon to HDMI. That fixed the color in a snap. Its not perfect but its definetly way more saturated now. Removing my DP adapter fixed like 80% of my HDR issues.

I have a new issue. My games like AC Origins, GTA V, and Arkham Knight keep crashing on higher settings. AC Origins and GTA V seem to run when the settings are lowered. Is this some card issue, driver issue, or my old system failing? I don;t think it's a PSU problem because the system doesn't restart.I didn't have these issues with my 290. Setting would change and games would run slow as aspected on a weaker card like it. But with this 1080 ti, dialing up the settings kills the games. and sometimes the video output.

Oddly enogugh, Witcher 3, and Ace Combat 7 run fine.
Never use an adapter if you don't have to.

Are the games just crashing, or is it your PC? Do you get any error dialog boxes after crashing? If you're on the latest driver, try downgrading to 417.71 after a DDU. There is a new driver that was just released today that you can try, but I have not read about any possible issues yet.
 
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