10 bit/HDR on Windows. Is it Fixed? Nvidia?

edo101

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how much ram do you have, and how many cores is the rest of your system?

Setting features to 4k can demand larger local buffers in your system ram. Do you see the same issues when you use the same settings as your old card?
I'll have to test my old card this weekend with the same settings. But from the little tweaking I did, I dont think I had those issues. Pushing those same settings on my 290 will tell me a lot

My system like I said is old. 2010 CPU, RAM and Mobo. Its 4 with HThreading cores OCd (had the same issue no OC) to 3.8Ghz. i7 930. Ram is 6GB. I've always had RAM issues so normally I close any other prorams like browsers before launching a game. I don't think I have ever cranked up settings that high before so I'll check with my 290
 

edo101

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Never use an adapter if you don't have to.

Are the games just crashing, or is it your PC? Do you get any error dialog boxes after crashing? If you're on the latest driver, try downgrading to 417.71 after a DDU. There is a new driver that was just released today that you can try, but I have not read about any possible issues yet.
Its the graphics card/games crashing. Sometimes the game will exit. Other times, the card will just black out my monitors then recover later. I havne't played Arkham Knight since 2015 so I might need to reinstall it
Pc mode on hdr TVs seems to be an rgb compatibility mode, and disables any hdr on my set. It is my understanding that movies max out at 4:2:2.

For gaming I use 4:2:2 same with movies using madvr to render hdr. Normal desktop I toggle off HDR in windows.
What is madvr? I had set Nvidia control panel to auto. Not sure which output mode it uses. Oddly enogh, in manual mode, I still get HDR with RGB running at 8bpc. Weird
 

bluesynk

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Its the graphics card/games crashing. Sometimes the game will exit. Other times, the card will just black out my inputs then recover later. I havne't played Arkham Knight since 2015 so I might need to reinstall it


What is madvr? I had set Nvidia control panel to auto. Not sure which output mode it uses. Oddly enogh, in manual mode, I still get HDR with RGB running at 8bpc. Weird
Mad vr is a upscaler renderer addon for most players. Think codec for hdr
 

edo101

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Never use an adapter if you don't have to.

Are the games just crashing, or is it your PC? Do you get any error dialog boxes after crashing? If you're on the latest driver, try downgrading to 417.71 after a DDU. There is a new driver that was just released today that you can try, but I have not read about any possible issues yet.
Also whenever I use DDU, despite telling windows not to install drivers using the "device installation settings", it still installs drives automatically. How do I stop windows from bypassing this option. Is there some register I need to change in addition to "device installation settings?".
 

Armenius

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Its the graphics card/games crashing. Sometimes the game will exit. Other times, the card will just black out my inputs then recover later. I havne't played Arkham Knight since 2015 so I might need to reinstall it


What is madvr? I had set Nvidia control panel to auto. Not sure which output mode it uses. Oddly enogh, in manual mode, I still get HDR with RGB running at 8bpc. Weird
Sounds like TDR issues. Try the older driver I mentioned.

madVR is a video codec, so it only applies if you're watching video.

HDMI only supports 4K HDR with YCbCr 4:2:2. Movies are actually 4:2:0, but that doesn't apply to games.

In the NVIDIA control panel under the "Change resolution" section you should set the "Use default color settings" radio button under "3. Apply the following settings." Windows will automatically apply the correct color settings when you play HDR games this way.
Also whenever I use DDU, despite telling windows not to install drivers using the "device installation settings", it still installs drives automatically. How do I stop windows from bypassing this option. Is there some register I need to change in addition to "device installation settings?".
If Windows is still installing drivers automatically then physically disconnect your PC from the internet until you can manually install the drivers yourself.
 

edo101

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Sounds like TDR issues. Try the older driver I mentioned.

madVR is a video codec, so it only applies if you're watching video.

HDMI only supports 4K HDR with YCbCr 4:2:2. Movies are actually 4:2:0, but that doesn't apply to games.

In the NVIDIA control panel under the "Change resolution" section you should set the "Use default color settings" radio button under "3. Apply the following settings." Windows will automatically apply the correct color settings when you play HDR games this way.

If Windows is still installing drivers automatically then physically disconnect your PC from the internet until you can manually install the drivers yourself.
Whats TDR?
 

Armenius

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Whats TDR?
Timeout Detection and Recovery. Basically, the device didn't respond in time, so Windows reset the driver.

Before TDR was implemented in Windows you would just get a hardlock and you would have to do a hard reboot to recover.
 

edo101

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Timeout Detection and Recovery. Basically, the device didn't respond in time, so Windows reset the driver.

Before TDR was implemented in Windows you would just get a hardlock and you would have to do a hard reboot to recover.
I'll install the 417 now. You think TDR explains why the game will crash when changing settings, or when trying to run with higher settings?
 

Armenius

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I'll install the 417 now. You think TDR explains why the game will crash when changing settings, or when trying to run with higher settings?
TDR can be caused by a number of issues, but changing settings can initiate them since the game is making a new API call that the hardware needs to respond to. Higher settings can also cause the issue if there is some hiccup in the driver that is causing an interruption in communicating rendering calls to the hardware.
 

CAD4466HK

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I'll have to test my old card this weekend with the same settings. But from the little tweaking I did, I dont think I had those issues. Pushing those same settings on my 290 will tell me a lot

My system like I said is old. 2010 CPU, RAM and Mobo. Its 4 with HThreading cores OCd (had the same issue no OC) to 3.8Ghz. i7 930. Ram is 6GB. I've always had RAM issues so normally I close any other prorams like browsers before launching a game. I don't think I have ever cranked up settings that high before so I'll check with my 290
Your asking a lot from that rig trying to run 4k settings on AAA games, with only 6GB of system RAM.
 

edo101

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Your asking a lot from that rig trying to run 4k settings on AAA games, with only 6GB of system RAM.
GTA V did warn me about RAM once, but i thought it was just some bug since the 1080 Ti has enough RAM. I thought for 4K, the main issue is having enough video RAM not system RAM. I do understand that 6GB seems low. I know i have to close out eveyrthing befoe I run my AAA games otherwise things crash. How does system RAM affect 4K.

This weekend, I'll definitely plug my old 290 back with the cranked up settings to see if I get these crashes
 

CAD4466HK

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GTA V did warn me about RAM once, but i thought it was just some bug since the 1080 Ti has enough RAM. I thought for 4K, the main issue is having enough video RAM not system RAM. I do understand that 6GB seems low. I know i have to close out eveyrthing befoe I run my AAA games otherwise things crash. How does system RAM affect 4K.

This weekend, I'll definitely plug my old 290 back with the cranked up settings to see if I get these crashes
Games now days are caching a lot of resources to system RAM, usually the higher the res, the more assets cached. In layman's words.

Not saying it's the cause of your crashes, but it sure ain't doing you any favors either.
 

cybereality

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Pc mode on hdr TVs seems to be an rgb compatibility mode, and disables any hdr on my set.
Thank you so much. Switching from PC to Game Console on my TV pretty much fixed everything.

The colors in SDR are *much* better, and it unlocked some extra color mode settings on the TV for me to tweak. I also switched to YCbCr 4:2:2 at 10 bpc.

Now I can leave HDR enabled in Windows without the washed out look. Perfect.
 

cybereality

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edo101 Have you tried settings your system back to stock?

I had crashing issues when I overclocked my RAM, so that is a possibility.
 

edo101

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Thank you so much. Switching from PC to Game Console on my TV pretty much fixed everything.

The colors in SDR are *much* better, and it unlocked some extra color mode settings on the TV for me to tweak. I also switched to YCbCr 4:2:2 at 10 bpc.

Now I can leave HDR enabled in Windows without the washed out look. Perfect.
You're welcome ;). Nobody mentioned that when I first got my TV. People told me to put it to PC mode for less latency

edo101 Have you tried settings your system back to stock?

I had crashing issues when I overclocked my RAM, so that is a possibility.
I am at stock settings. Was able to play AC Origins at high settings. But I minimized the game to change my sound settings then opened it agian. Game crashed. I'm beginning to think this might be a RAM issue? AS in 6GB might not be enough. I'll crank the setting sto VHigh and check.

The 290 will tell me a lot. Does the 1080 Ti draw more power than the R9 290?
 

defaultluser

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You're welcome ;). Nobody mentioned that when I first got my TV. People told me to put it to PC mode for less latency



I am at stock settings. Was able to play AC Origins at high settings. But I minimized the game to change my sound settings then opened it agian. Game crashed. I'm beginning to think this might be a RAM issue? AS in 6GB might not be enough. I'll crank the setting sto VHigh and check.

The 290 will tell me a lot. Does the 1080 Ti draw more power than the R9 290?
No, the power draw should be identical.

I am pretty sure it's the ram. Doom 2016 was the first game I played regularly to use 5GB ram, and that was back in 2016, and that was at 1080p. Larger effects on the graphics cards mean larger buffers in the system ram, ad taht may just be enough to put you over the top.
 

edo101

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No, the power draw should be identical.

I am pretty sure it's the ram. Doom 2016 was the first game I played regularly to use 5GB ram, and that was back in 2016, and that was at 1080p. Larger effects on the graphics cards mean larger buffers in the system ram, ad taht may just be enough to put you over the top.
And I just noticed my 290 has 2 4 pin connectors while my 1080 ti is only 1 4 pin and 1 3 pin. I'd assume that means the 290 is more power hungry

When it comes to RAM, if I decide to upgrade my system in the future, are all newer board compartible with DDR3, or are they only DDR4. If it ends up being the case that I need to upgrade my RAM, I'd hate to buy a new kit that is only limited to the X58 era. it might be hard to find the same triple channel kit or stick I was using for my 6GB
 

edo101

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Your asking a lot from that rig trying to run 4k settings on AAA games, with only 6GB of system RAM.
No, the power draw should be identical.

I am pretty sure it's the ram. Doom 2016 was the first game I played regularly to use 5GB ram, and that was back in 2016, and that was at 1080p. Larger effects on the graphics cards mean larger buffers in the system ram, ad taht may just be enough to put you over the top.
So I just tried it with my 290. No crashes with the same settings. It would appear the 1080 Ti is faulty or Nvidia drivers are bad? Or I need to reinstall Windows to see if the system needs a new boot to get used to the geforce drivers.

But as of right now, no crashes with the 290 with the same settings.
 

edo101

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I spoke too soon. The game crashed. It happened when I paused the game then tried to start it up again. So its either my RAM or I need to resintall Windows
 

Elf_Boy

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I have a new HDR Monitor/TV and have questions on this as well. I'll post this weekend when I am at home.

How does HRD work in 8-bit? Dont you need more data for more colors?
 

cybereality

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When it comes to RAM, if I decide to upgrade my system in the future, are all newer board compartible with DDR3, or are they only DDR4.
All the new platforms are DDR4. You might be best buying some used DDR3 RAM off ebay and seeing if that helps in your current system.
 

CAD4466HK

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So I just tried it with my 290. No crashes with the same settings. It would appear the 1080 Ti is faulty or Nvidia drivers are bad? Or I need to reinstall Windows to see if the system needs a new boot to get used to the geforce drivers.

But as of right now, no crashes with the 290 with the same settings.
I would downgrade the drivers then, a few people have been experiencing issues with the latest.

EDIT: Just saw your last post, sounds like it could be an OS bug for sure it it's still crashing.
 

cybereality

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Also, are you doing a DDU safe mode uninstall when switching cards?

You might have a problem with both AMD and Nvidia drivers installed at the same time (theoretically it should be fine, but in practice there can be issues).
 

CAD4466HK

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Also, are you doing a DDU safe mode uninstall when switching cards?

You might have a problem with both AMD and Nvidia drivers installed at the same time (theoretically it should be fine, but in practice there can be issues).
I was about to ask the same thing.
 

edo101

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I would downgrade the drivers then, a few people have been experiencing issues with the latest.

EDIT: Just saw your last post, sounds like it could be an OS bug for sure it it's still crashing.
Also, are you doing a DDU safe mode uninstall when switching cards?

You might have a problem with both AMD and Nvidia drivers installed at the same time (theoretically it should be fine, but in practice there can be issues).
I was about to ask the same thing.
After a little more testing, my 290 is definitely more stable than the 1080 Ti.

I was able to play Origins and GTA V with the same settings but of course it was slow. what I did do was only plug in one display. Instead of runing the multiple display I was running

Coincidentally, I was able to play AC ORigins with very high settings with my TV only plugged in. GTA V, played for a little bit then crashed. And now Arkham Knight finally loaded after not being able to last night with only one monitor.


So i'm guessing the issue is one of two things. Either the 1080 Ti is faulty or, I need more RAM to be able to handle how fast th 1080 Ti is processing graphics on games on GTA V. And to be able to supoort multple displays with one of them gaming at 4K

As for your driver question, I doubt thats the issue. I do DDU in safe mode. At one point I only had Nvidia drivers installed. Had the same issue. I seem to be having less issues with one monitor plugged in though crashed in GTA V but after much longer gameplay like i mentioned
 

CAD4466HK

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After a little more testing, my 290 is definitely more stable than the 1080 Ti.

I was able to play Origins and GTA V with the same settings but of course it was slow. what I did do was only plug in one display. Instead of runing the multiple display I was running

Coincidentally, I was able to play AC ORigins with very high settings with my TV only plugged in. GTA V, played for a little bit then crashed. And now Arkham Knight finally loaded after not being able to last night with only one monitor.


So i'm guessing the issue is one of two things. Either the 1080 Ti is faulty or, I need more RAM to be able to handle how fast th 1080 Ti is processing graphics on games on GTA V. And to be able to supoort multple displays with one of them gaming at 4K

As for your driver question, I doubt thats the issue. I do DDU in safe mode. At one point I only had Nvidia drivers installed. Had the same issue. I seem to be having less issues with one monitor plugged in though crashed in GTA V but after much longer gameplay like i mentioned
Have you downgraded your drivers yet with the 1080Ti? Be aware that W10 will install drivers automatically after you uninstall them. You can dl the drivers and save them first before you uninstall, than disable your internet connection, then install the drivers that you saved. Make sure you DDU them in safe mode first to be sure.
 

edo101

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Have you downgraded your drivers yet with the 1080Ti? Be aware that W10 will install drivers automatically after you uninstall them. You can dl the drivers and save them first before you uninstall, than disable your internet connection, then install the drivers that you saved. Make sure you DDU them in safe mode first to be sure.
Yep did all that. I went back to 417. Not sure if its why I am playing longer with Origins and GTA V. I followed that procedure and yeah windows isn't installing anything. I'm narrowing down the problem to the 1080 Ti's memory or my system memory not being enough.
Gonna try AKnight on my 290 then head to work.
 

edo101

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Can anyone tell me what the power draw of a Vapor X R9 290 and that of a 1080Ti BE Sc would be? I'm not sure if PSU could be the issue as well?
 

edo101

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edo101 Have you tried settings your system back to stock?

I had crashing issues when I overclocked my RAM, so that is a possibility.
Have you downgraded your drivers yet with the 1080Ti? Be aware that W10 will install drivers automatically after you uninstall them. You can dl the drivers and save them first before you uninstall, than disable your internet connection, then install the drivers that you saved. Make sure you DDU them in safe mode first to be sure.
No, the power draw should be identical.

I am pretty sure it's the ram. Doom 2016 was the first game I played regularly to use 5GB ram, and that was back in 2016, and that was at 1080p. Larger effects on the graphics cards mean larger buffers in the system ram, ad taht may just be enough to put you over the top.
Fresh install fixed everything. Cleaned out my SSD and resintalled Windows. No issues. Arkham Knight still stutters but never crashes. Don't think I ever remember the game stutter as much as it does on my Nvidia card but it runs. No more crashing at settings change or ultra settings
 

edo101

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Sounds like TDR issues. Try the older driver I mentioned.

madVR is a video codec, so it only applies if you're watching video.

HDMI only supports 4K HDR with YCbCr 4:2:2. Movies are actually 4:2:0, but that doesn't apply to games.

In the NVIDIA control panel under the "Change resolution" section you should set the "Use default color settings" radio button under "3. Apply the following settings." Windows will automatically apply the correct color settings when you play HDR games this way.

If Windows is still installing drivers automatically then physically disconnect your PC from the internet until you can manually install the drivers yourself.

Just so I understand you, You are saying I should switch the setting under option 3 to "use default color settings?" That will give me the best results for HDR and non HDR? and if Windows is not in HDR mode, does madVR auto toggle it on whenever you are watching an HDR content on something like Media Player Classic?
 

Nenu

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Be sure to set your card to RGB full, not RGB limited, otherwise it will look washed out.

I'm using a 1080ti to a Samsung HDR TV with HDMI and the CAC 1080 DP to HDMI converter.
Both work fine when set up properly.
 

edo101

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Be sure to set your card to RGB full, not RGB limited, otherwise it will look washed out.

I'm using a 1080ti to a Samsung HDR TV with HDMI and the CAC 1080 DP to HDMI converter.
Both work fine when set up properly.
Wait so you are getting HDR with RGB? Isn't RGB limited to 8bpc?
 

cybereality

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I'm using RGB since it does 4:4:4 and text on the desktop looks poor without it.

Seemingly HDR still works (w. RGB and 8bpc), but sometimes it is hard to tell with these things.
 

Nenu

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Wait so you are getting HDR with RGB? Isn't RGB limited to 8bpc?
Yes to both, full RGB.
It will stretch the extended HDR colour/brightness range over 256 instead of 1024 levels per colour. The full range of colours/brightness is attained properly.
In theory this can cause banding and I notice it very occasionally, mostly it performs superb.
Since it is dead simple to forget and go by leaving it as RGB, I'm not bothered.
 

edo101

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I'm using RGB since it does 4:4:4 and text on the desktop looks poor without it.

Seemingly HDR still works (w. RGB and 8bpc), but sometimes it is hard to tell with these things.
Yes to both, full RGB.
It will stretch the extended HDR colour/brightness range over 256 instead of 1024 levels per colour. The full range of colours/brightness is attained properly.
In theory this can cause banding and I notice it very occasionally, mostly it performs superb.
Since it is dead simple to forget and go by leaving it as RGB, I'm not bothered.
Just played around with it a little this morning

Setting things manually definitely looks better than using the auto option in Nvidia control panel.

I saw no difference between RGB full and YCBr 4:4:2 at 10 and 12 bpc so I left it at 12bpc to ensure when my TV says HDR I am getting the full HDR band. I am very pleased to say the TV looks good in desktop. In fact this is the best it's ever looked.

THe wierd thing I noticed was that setting YCBr to 8bpc made the screen look more vibrant but in a oversaturated and bright kinda way. 12bpc and 10bpc yielded a natural response. Overall I am now satisfied. 4:4:2 at 59Hz is now where I am setting and leaving it.
 

edo101

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I'm using RGB since it does 4:4:4 and text on the desktop looks poor without it.

Seemingly HDR still works (w. RGB and 8bpc), but sometimes it is hard to tell with these things.
Yes to both, full RGB.
It will stretch the extended HDR colour/brightness range over 256 instead of 1024 levels per colour. The full range of colours/brightness is attained properly.
In theory this can cause banding and I notice it very occasionally, mostly it performs superb.
Since it is dead simple to forget and go by leaving it as RGB, I'm not bothered.
I spoke too soon. My blacks in SDR games look better on RGB full 8 bpc than it does on YCBR 4:2:2. Is there a way to fix this?
 

edo101

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EDIT: NVM: HDR mode on my TV carries different settings as it should...from SDR. All i had to do was change my TV black level in SDR to low. I'm not losing anything right?
 

cybereality

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That should be fine. I had to set the TV to Game Console and tweak a few settings on the TV, but now everything is perfect.

SDR content actually looks better now too, I'm so glad this thread came around because now I can enjoy HDR without having to switch settings every time.
 

Domingo

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On my set (a Samsung KS8000), RGB Full 8-bit and YCBr 4:2:2 12-bit seem to have roughly the same color space as far as I can tell. At the very least that seems to be the case with all of the color and black matching tests I can find. I usually just leave it on RGB since it defaults to that anyway. If there's a visual difference, it's beyond what my eyes can pick up or I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for.

Although if I set mine up as RGB, my TV will always default the PC input no matter what. Even if I try to swap it to something else, it automatically goes back. The exception is if HDR content is playing. If it is, I can swap to whatever I feel like. If I use YCBr, I can change settings at will, although I don't really need to or want to.

What I did was to make me "Game Console" input setting be for my HDR color settings. That way it also cuts down on some additional input lag that HDR causes. It's a handy trick so I can now toggle over to HDR via a single button.
 
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