Dart: Google's Alternative to JavaScript

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Head on over to Google's official code blog and check out the preview of Dart, a "class-based optionally typed programming language for building web applications".

Dart targets a wide range of development scenarios: from a one-person project without much structure to a large-scale project needing formal types in the code to state programmer intent. To support this wide range of projects, Dart has optional types; this means you can start coding without types and add them later as needed. We believe Dart will be great for writing large web applications.
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Why does google think they need to create an alternative to everything that already exists and is functioning just fine? Have they forgotten how to make actual innovations?
 
It took only about 20 years for JavaScript to emerge from the mess that was the early 90s internet, beating out competitors like VB Script (*twitch*). Only recently has JS become fairly standardized after Netscape and MSFT spent years adding their own 'features' and ignoring standards.

I estimate the chances of Dart becoming anything more than a niche toy somewhere between -0.1 and 0.
 
Elledan said:
It took only about 20 years for JavaScript to emerge from the mess that was the early 90s internet, beating out competitors like VB Script (*twitch*). Only recently has JS become fairly standardized after Netscape and MSFT spent years adding their own 'features' and ignoring standards.

I estimate the chances of Dart becoming anything more than a niche toy somewhere between -0.1 and 0.
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Ditto, I suspect the chances of this language catching on are very small. Just like Microsoft's Silverlight; albiet if Silverlight is included with Windows 8, it might have a slightly better chance. Besides, isn't JS kind of being replace slowly over time by C# anyways??
 
WBurchnall said:
Ditto, I suspect the chances of this language catching on are very small. Just like Microsoft's Silverlight; albiet if Silverlight is included with Windows 8, it might have a slightly better chance. Besides, isn't JS kind of being replace slowly over time by C# anyways??
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Silverlight is essentially being killed off in Windows 8, or so it appears. Its future is quite uncertain at least.

And C# replacing JS? No chance in hell... C# requires the CRT environment, is quite hefty in terms of its library size, would require the .Net runtime or equivalent (Mono) to be installed on any system, and most importantly, it's not a scripting language :)

JS is actually finally maturing, with JS runtimes in browsers getting JIT support and JS performance an important benchmark in comparing browsers. Back in 2005 nobody cared about JS because it was only used for useless menu effects (I was designing websites back then as well :) ). It's only with the advent of AJAX, interactive web-based UIs and such high-performance tasks that JS performance actually matters as well as its feature set. It has grown way beyond the original ECMAscript design at least.

The real question I guess is what Dart brings to the table what JS doesn't. Not having used Dart I can't really comment on this, but there is a huge codebase written in JS out there (JQuery, to name one example), and I don't see people changing this overnight. Besides, when will Dart become available for Firefox, Opera and WebKit browsers?
 
I guess this may have to do with Android? I dunno, I probably am so far off on the wrong path here :p
 
WBurchnall said:
Ditto, I suspect the chances of this language catching on are very small. Just like Microsoft's Silverlight; albiet if Silverlight is included with Windows 8, it might have a slightly better chance. Besides, isn't JS kind of being replace slowly over time by C# anyways??
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How can javascript be replaced by C#?

I personally hate javascript. I find programming in it weird. I wish they made the syntax more like a C language.
 
simonizor said:
Why does google think they need to create an alternative to everything that already exists and is functioning just fine? Have they forgotten how to make actual innovations?
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They are like the Japanese, they take something that already exists, and make it 100 times better! ;)
 
Ihaveworms said:
No. Java can't replace it either. Javascript is client side. I want Dart to succeed. It can compile to javascript anyway for compatibility.
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Ah, I was thinking of my workplace, where managed C# and Java were recently considered before we went C# (I think that is what happened, I don't follow this stuff closely).
 
simonizor said:
Why does google think they need to create an alternative to everything that already exists and is functioning just fine? Have they forgotten how to make actual innovations?
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What part of JS is "functioning just fine"? Very few people use it nowadays. Everyone is using things like JQuery, CoffeeScript, or GWT. People have gone to great lengths to distance themselves from JS - Google wants to try and replace it rather than just tolerating it.

Also I think people might have missed the part that you can compile Dart to JS - so that should allow for earlier adopters if people so desire.
 
IT took long enough for me and my boss to persuade most of our 800+ clients of ours that enabling JavaScript for Trusted Sites, namely our SharePoint site, does not equate to enabling JavaScript as a whole. I'll be damned if I have to persuade these 800+ IT departments and thick-skulled management that some obscured programming language is safe behind Trusted Site security as well.
 
Azhar said:
IT took long enough for me and my boss to persuade most of our 800+ clients of ours that enabling JavaScript for Trusted Sites, namely our SharePoint site, does not equate to enabling JavaScript as a whole. I'll be damned if I have to persuade these 800+ IT departments and thick-skulled management that some obscured programming language is safe behind Trusted Site security as well.
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Your clients sound like real morons.
 
Ihaveworms said:
How can javascript be replaced by C#?

I personally hate javascript. I find programming in it weird. I wish they made the syntax more like a C language.
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The part that offsets me is that you regularly put three different languages (html, js, css) in a single line and constantly having them emulate and/or override each other (This isn't spaghetti code, it's frankenstein code). And it's hit or miss if the browser will support whatever convoluted function you've come up with. The article links i've been following lately are broken in one browser or another.
 
ferrisnox said:
Your clients sound like real morons.
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my clients are construction companies and steel/nuclear/utility/whatever plants - we're a project management company. IT security is locked down tight in most industries. A lot of executable scripts are normally locked down in these cases and you'd have to do a good job persuading these people why they should make YOUR site Trusted. I'm not sure why you consider it moronic.

If I told you that you can Trust my site, why would you believe me?

A moron would be like Sony - thinking all of their customers are computer illiterates and they can leave everything "open" without repercussion.

If you really think that my clients are morons without even asking what we do for a living, I would never let you touch my servers and I hope you never get a job in corporate IT.

Stick with Geek Squad.
 
And I'm sure, being Google and all, that there is no fine print anywhere that says they own all your code and can observe your source any time they want and get backdoor access to everything anyone creates.

Nah, they wouldn't do that.

Nor would they disguise it as a way to better find out the needs of your business and offer you targeted products that might help your company be more competitve.
 
Javascript is fine. The haphazard implementation and lack of standardization in most browsers is what sucks.

This is going to turn out like VBscript on the web.
 
Original Javascript was a Netscape hack to allow some client side programming. It's mostly used because it's easy to learn and widely supported (despite several incompatibilities among browsers vendors and/or versions).
The big problem with DART is being a Google only effort. They'll be sure to fit their needs, not necessarily the needs of the rest of vendors or end users.
 
Javascript is a huge pain to program in IMO. Something to replace it, if only from the programming side would be awesome. I find the prototype based model annoying and non-intuitive.
 
Azhar said:
my clients are construction companies and steel/nuclear/utility/whatever plants - we're a project management company. IT security is locked down tight in most industries. A lot of executable scripts are normally locked down in these cases and you'd have to do a good job persuading these people why they should make YOUR site Trusted. I'm not sure why you consider it moronic.

If I told you that you can Trust my site, why would you believe me?

A moron would be like Sony - thinking all of their customers are computer illiterates and they can leave everything "open" without repercussion.

If you really think that my clients are morons without even asking what we do for a living, I would never let you touch my servers and I hope you never get a job in corporate IT.

Stick with Geek Squad.
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I never said leave everything open. But if your idea of securing a computer is turning everything off and locking it down so it can't use it; yea I guess its secure but its nothing more than a paper weight. If you are doing you job your clients should be able to do their work unimpeded. Let them get their work done and have a backup plan in case something goes wrong. Not a you can't even use the web because I"m so friggen ridiculously anal about security. Are you one of those people who run two virus scanners at the same time : )
 
ferrisnox said:
I never said leave everything open. But if your idea of securing a computer is turning everything off and locking it down so it can't use it; yea I guess its secure but its nothing more than a paper weight. If you are doing you job your clients should be able to do their work unimpeded. Let them get their work done and have a backup plan in case something goes wrong. Not a you can't even use the web because I"m so friggen ridiculously anal about security. Are you one of those people who run two virus scanners at the same time : )
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Believe me, I've had to replace my desk so many times from banging my head on it trying to explain that to those IT security people.

"There has to be another way to secure SharePoint that wouldn't require us to enable Silverlight, JavaScript, AJAX, or ActiveX or allow NTLS authentication through proxy server"

Makes me want to say "actually you know what? There is a way to use your browser when you have everything locked down to a point where you can't do anything. Just go to http://127.0.0.1"

But I like my job :-P
 
Sly said:
The part that offsets me is that you regularly put three different languages (html, js, css) in a single line and constantly having them emulate and/or override each other (This isn't spaghetti code, it's frankenstein code). And it's hit or miss if the browser will support whatever convoluted function you've come up with. The article links i've been following lately are broken in one browser or another.
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Hit the nail right on the head. The web needs a new language to unify the client side and even server side code.
If you want a simple webpage, have simple tags. Want a consistent theme? Have a consistent way to call a style-sheet via the same language. Need a client side script? Use the same language, but a more advanced feature. Want some server side code, use the same damn language and make it nice and AJAX.
 
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