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DLSS 5 - Generative AI

mullet said:
I do love you guys but sometimes it's like talking to a brick wall.
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Then I suggest you go back to this post and rebut the statements made about the images. This post is specifically about the image you're talking about it but the post isn't disingenuous about cutting out everything except the character model. There are some very interesting observations in that post about the scene your very narrowly cropped shot conveniently left out. Things like the description of the original scene and how the lighting of the scene would realistically come about.
 
She looks like a character from a PS3 game in the original image; literally none of it looks good. The AI stuff makes the face look much more realistic; the background lighting has changed but I'd definitely take that loss over the Final Fantasy 10 character face.
 
SmokeRngs said:
Then I suggest you go back to this post and rebut the statements made about the images. This post is specifically about the image you're talking about it but the post isn't disingenuous about cutting out everything except the character model. There are some very interesting observations in that post about the scene your very narrowly cropped shot conveniently left out. Things like the description of the original scene and how the lighting of the scene would realistically come about.
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But they find it easier to fap to the DLSS image. Checkmate!
 
I don't think I've ever seen so much salty feelings over video game tech lol. If you wanna make the argument that this is why PC components will become unobtainium and that's why we should be salty then well, DLSS 5 isn't solely the reason for that happening either.
 
MistaSparkul said:
I don't think I've ever seen so much salty feelings over video game tech lol. If you wanna make the argument that this is why PC components will become unobtainium and that's why we should be salty then well, DLSS 5 isn't solely the reason for that happening either.
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It's the same tech.
 
mullet said:
If 50% hate it with DLSSS on and the other 50% like it with DLSSS off then you have OPTIONS and everyone wins. Peoples wallets determine who wins no matter what a developer thinks.
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The fear isn't that we won't have an option to turn it off.

The fear is devs will actually lean into this stuff. So that without it your looking at minecraft geometry in every game. lol [my asset streaming conspiracy theory aside]
That seems to be part of the excitement from game publishers on this. That they can greatly simplify their development process. Now every game studio can just make crap models like Bethesda. What does it matter. The yassificated filter is the way its meant to be played.

You don't have to turn it on... sure heard that about Ray Tracing as well. All well and good till the games started coming where the developers didn't bother making raster light maps so RT was required.

Also I know I have already said it. But after 8 years of Ray Tracing is the way. And all the Jensen cheer leading for RT. This tech replaces it completely. I mean I guess the last 8 years were pointless. Now that RT is in a place where developers know the right amount to use, and mid range cards from all the vendors can deal with it for the most part. NOW Nvidia wants to toss it aside for this? The ask is a little rich. Forget that ultimate light tracing stuff we been harping on for 8 years and you been eating 10% raster improvements some gens so we could improve RT. Now its not important anymore?

I think Nvidia should have been a bit more prepared for the backlash. It seems pretty obvious there would be a backlash.
 
ChadD said:
You don't have to turn it on... sure heard that about Ray Tracing as well. All well and good till the games started coming where the developers didn't bother making raster light maps so RT was required.
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What's worse is the number of them that still look terrible with it on, and even worse with it off, and run like crap on reasonable hardware. The industry's just pumping out crap, and Nvidia is just repackaging their crap. It's good for Nvidia and their shareholders.

Screenshot_20260319-134444.png


DLSS is a neat technical feat for sure, but it's still AI trash. They don't care about games, they don't care about the industry, they don't care about you.

Screenshot_20260319-135102.png


I'm pretty sure there's going to be a bifurcation at this point, there's going to be people living in the old world as it continues to dissapate, and there's going to be people living in a slop generated world for a monthly fee, happy to wallow in filth and believing it's great (it's not).
 
ChadD said:
Maybe this tech is good in 3 years? I mean it took RT 6 or 7 years to be semi usable on higher end GPUs.
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I'm thinking 10 years before it is finally in a good state. Much like ray tracing in my opinion will only reach maturity in 2028 with the release of the new consoles, which is 10 years after the 2080 came out. You've got to give it 5 years for all the new memory fabrication plants to come online so we can get enough RAM for the GPU/CPU. And then it'll need 10 years to probably have enough improvements for silicon to run well.

Some people will probably find ways of injecting their own AI model into the game making everyone want to have +96GB of RAM to run better models.
 
mullet said:
I was focused on the girls face not the lighting behind her and is it realistic to the position of the sun and the building with 86% humidity with a slight north east wind. When I saw the graphic my eyes went straight to her face because that was the biggest change and the focal point, hence why I croped the picture.

I see the points you are making after going back and looking at bigger pictures of before and after. Yes you are correct the lighting looks over done on the back ground. My problem is I didn't OVER THINK it or we say in the south "I didn't pick the fly shit out of the pepper".

I literally think some here would nit pick Michael Angelo’s work, True artist
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And that is why you fail. You have ignored everything but the one thing you like and cropped out everything that shows it's not a good change because it changed everything about the scene and the mood of the scene. The DLSS5 AI filtered completely altered the whole scene to the point where it looks unrealistic and frankly stupid.

Ignoring everything wrong and focusing only on what you like and doing it to the point that you cropped out everything wrong is intentionally misleading people.
 
ChadD said:
The fear isn't that we won't have an option to turn it off.

The fear is devs will actually lean into this stuff. So that without it your looking at minecraft geometry in every game. lol [my asset streaming conspiracy theory aside]
That seems to be part of the excitement from game publishers on this. That they can greatly simplify their development process. Now every game studio can just make crap models like Bethesda. What does it matter. The yassificated filter is the way its meant to be played.

You don't have to turn it on... sure heard that about Ray Tracing as well. All well and good till the games started coming where the developers didn't bother making raster light maps so RT was required.

Also I know I have already said it. But after 8 years of Ray Tracing is the way. And all the Jensen cheer leading for RT. This tech replaces it completely. I mean I guess the last 8 years were pointless. Now that RT is in a place where developers know the right amount to use, and mid range cards from all the vendors can deal with it for the most part. NOW Nvidia wants to toss it aside for this? The ask is a little rich. Forget that ultimate light tracing stuff we been harping on for 8 years and you been eating 10% raster improvements some gens so we could improve RT. Now its not important anymore?

I think Nvidia should have been a bit more prepared for the backlash. It seems pretty obvious there would be a backlash.
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It's no surprise that nVidia is abandoning RT at this point. It had to be obvious to nVidia from the beginning that it was never going to work. However, they needed a way to spin a large chunk of transistors made for nothing related to gaming into a gaming feature.

The DLSS5 AI filter is more of the same. The hardware isn't there for it to work and if it ever is it won't be available for years if not decades; at least in the mainstream. This is another chunk of transistors designed and made for a completely different audience being spun as the next greatest gaming advancement to cover up the fact that there have been no hardware advancements for gaming in a long time and will not be any in the foreseeable future. At least until the AI bubble pops and nVidia needs gamers again to prop up their business and profits.
 
SmokeRngs said:
It's no surprise that nVidia is abandoning RT at this point. It had to be obvious to nVidia from the beginning that it was never going to work. However, they needed a way to spin a large chunk of transistors made for nothing related to gaming into a gaming feature.

The DLSS5 AI filter is more of the same. The hardware isn't there for it to work and if it ever is it won't be available for years if not decades; at least in the mainstream. This is another chunk of transistors designed and made for a completely different audience being spun as the next greatest gaming advancement to cover up the fact that there have been no hardware advancements for gaming in a long time and will not be any in the foreseeable future. At least until the AI bubble pops and nVidia needs gamers again to prop up their business and profits.
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won’t they pivot to completely custom chips for AI?

probably just surfing this wave of absurdity and milking it for all it’s got

though, they do seem to be wasting a lot on mediocre software endeavors anymore

jensen was saying nvidia is a software company before turning into an ai company

they probably don’t have a lot of calaries to burn on tweaking new generations of silicon that accelerate the ai algorithms faster

they could cut back a lot on the software platforms and ecosystem moonshots and have even better quarters


and certainly there are fanboys of this dlss5 look that’ll buy
 
SmokeRngs said:
And that is why you fail. You have ignored everything but the one thing you like and cropped out everything that shows it's not a good change because it changed everything about the scene and the mood of the scene. The DLSS5 AI filtered completely altered the whole scene to the point where it looks unrealistic and frankly stupid.

Ignoring everything wrong and focusing only on what you like and doing it to the point that you cropped out everything wrong is intentionally misleading people.
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If they could double the supply overnight it wouldn't matter. AI demand for their slop generators is outpacing in production. The best way I've heard it said is that it would just reset the baseline if it doubled overnight, and continue to be a problem and continue to increase.
 
erek said:
nice find
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I was on the fence before, but now I'm thinking this is just a backfiring PR move by Nvidia to help maintain shareholder confidence and stock value at it's sky high amount. Hence why they used the DLSS branding when it has nothing to do with DLSS. Just their version of reshade with AI image generation slapped on top of selected areas of a screenshot. And why Jensen became so mad when the jig was up. It's a pig in a poke.
 
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zehoo said:
So it’s just a screenshot with motion vectors according to this.
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They did the correct thing by asking Nvidia specific questions directly. The Nvidia rep responding is Jacob Freeman, formerly an EVGA rep. So they're not directly involved with the tech but would have sought answers from those familiar.

LukeTbk said:
It is using the nvidia streamline framework to talk to the dlss 5 implementation, but those semantic are just a simple int from simple material string value, passing them to a different model would be easy (the unreal, blender, etc... asset that describe them is not proprietary), a bit like motion vectors are not a big deal to pass to any upscaler once you have them.
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Per the video from the above quote Nvidia say that it's only inferring the materials from the static frame and only takes the rendered frame and motion vectors as inputs, after being asked directly if DLSS 5 has any awareness of what the original materials are. So doesn't seem they're offering a way for devs to define hints about materials. Also they have no plans to make this non-proprietary.

I'd be interested in a technical deep dive by Nvidia.
 
mullet said:
You use the word fail, Ignoring everything wrong, like there is only one way to see something. If you don't see it my way you are wrong. That is your problem. linear thinking.

Some will like it some will not, there is no fail/pass.
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You intentionally cut out everything from the screenshot that shows how badly DLSS5 changed the whole scene. It doesn't make any sense that she should look the way she does with DLSS5. DLSS5 lit her up with a spotlight in a scene that's obviously dark and meant to be dark. That is 100% a fail and the attempt to hide that is also 100% a fail. You know it looks bad and you know it's wrong. That's why it's disingenuous to do what you did with the cropping of the screenshot in order to claim that DLSS5 is good. It's not something you do in honest debate/discussion.
 
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zehoo said:
So it’s just a screenshot with motion vectors according to this.


View: https://youtu.be/D0EM1vKt36s?si=PR9sTIYSWDfw2sgC
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Since he caught it generating hair we can confidently say it's not just "lighting", which to most sane people was obvious but at least its confirmed with how it works and it works exactly like people thought. The motion vectors help but a the end of the day it's a filter based on a 2-D image with the second card likely running all of the calculations for movement and serving up the AI rendered material.
 
sharknice said:
The valid criticism is overshadowed by the "REEEEEEE AI" and "REEEEEE NVIDIA" crowd's nonsense.
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That's on you taking it that way, but it's not reality. The valid criticism is the injection of materials, textures, and the deformation of geometry occurring due to the neural rendering pipeline. To me, that's not something that can be masked off or fixed, it's just inherent to the model. Unless it's completely off on the model, it's still fundamentally altering it, and I don't want to see it period. Also all of the environment lighting just looks like a blown out, overexposed photo. In no way is it objectively better imo. The Grace before and after in particular displays this (the scene lighting in my opinion, is worse than PT, and some of the bounce lighting is flat out missing). I'm not really arguing it any longer because it's pretty clear the critique is correct. If people want a slop filter they're welcome to it. AMD plans to do this shit too with the next xbox, it's been shown the Neural Rendering is part of the Helix project. I think it's why it'll have a huge amount of ram and likely cost 1000+ dollars.

So you're welcome to get annoyed by people who are mad at nvidia or ai specifically, but it doesn't make the criticism wrong either way. Part of me thinks those people are propagandists to try and invalidate the criticism, or make it seem lesser, when it's still entirely valid.
 
And what happens when that DLSS5 spotlight is thrown on every enemy in a shooter? Dark area with people hiding in the shadows are no longer a problem because DLSS5 will make sure you see them every time. Don't have DLSS5? Pathetic broke n00b. Git gud by spending more money.
 
Decko said:
That's on you taking it that way, but it's not reality. The valid criticism is the injection of materials, textures, and the deformation of geometry occurring due to the neural rendering pipeline. To me, that's not something that can be masked off or fixed, it's just inherent to the model. Unless it's completely off on the model, it's still fundamentally altering it, and I don't want to see it period. Also all of the environment lighting just looks like a blown out, overexposed photo. In no way is it objectively better imo. The Grace before and after in particular displays this (the scene lighting in my opinion, is worse than PT, and some of the bounce lighting is flat out missing). I'm not really arguing it any longer because it's pretty clear the critique is correct. If people want a slop filter they're welcome to it. AMD plans to do this shit too with the next xbox, it's been shown the Neural Rendering is part of the Helix project. I think it's why it'll have a huge amount of ram and likely cost 1000+ dollars.

So you're welcome to get annoyed by people who are mad at nvidia or ai specifically, but it doesn't make the criticism wrong either way. Part of me thinks those people are propagandists to try and invalidate the criticism, or make it seem lesser, when it's still entirely valid.
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It's an attempt at deflection because there is no argument against how and how much it changes the scenes. Can't attack the argument or evidence, attack the person.
 
SmokeRngs said:
And what happens when that DLSS5 spotlight is thrown on every enemy in a shooter? Dark area with people hiding in the shadows are no longer a problem because DLSS5 will make sure you see them every time. Don't have DLSS5? Pathetic broke n00b. Git gud by spending more money.
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Yeah I'm dreading this sort of thing, I've given up on multiplayer games like this for the most part on PC anyway though. I mean even in games like league of legends you have monitors with built in AI that alert you to enemy locations, it is insane
 
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mullet said:
What is sad, is you are triggered that I actually like it.
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I don't think triggered is the right word, maybe perplexed would be more accurate.

This is bad from many angles not just one. I mean going from paying the RT tax because of "accuracy" to this is just blowing my mind. Furthermore it is altering the artistic intent. If you're a gamer that matters quite a bit especially now when graphics are able to confidently create specific models as intended without it. The destruction of artistic intent will wreak havoc on any game that describes an object, as that object could look nothing like what's being described. Grace literally goes from disheveled, insecure, and scared to confident girl behind a Sephora make-up counter. If you're playing a game just to goon then I guess it's great, but from an gamer that respects the art form known as video games it's disturbing to say the least.

Personally I don't want the scared, vulnerable, protagonist to be more concerned with serving face or looks-maxing than being what the artist(s) and writers originally intended. It's a step backwards because we can finally play games that confidently express emotion, drama, and impact today. Not in the future. NOW. So why should we move backwards with a technology that strips out the artistic intent?

This was game of the year not just because of the graphics, but the art behind it.

View: https://youtu.be/nCGDV3BMfTA?si=pM2OySGaKVeipzre&t=138
 
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Decko said:
Well atleast they're admitting it's just gen ai and it doesn't actually understand anything in scene (materials, textures, etc). It's a slop filter fullstop.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0EM1vKt36s&t=3s
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The best comment on that video: "It is lighting ... gaslighting."

I've never seen so many back to back non-answers to direct questions before. What a useless NVIDIA rep.
 
DooKey said:
Buy AMD if you don't like it. You do have choices.

Of course, lately it's 9 out of 10 NV GPUs over AMD.
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19 out of 20*

The current stranglehold of Nvidia has done wonders for the market :) games are better than ever, hardware pricing is at all time lows. We should be tired of winning, because it's just too good.

If DLSS 5 gets a foothold, is only going to get better...
 
MikeTrike said:
19 out of 20*

The current stranglehold of Nvidia has done wonders for the market :) games are better than ever, hardware pricing is at all time lows. We should be tired of winning, because it's just too good.
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It's not the fault of NV that AMD let gamers down.
 
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