China Suspected of Stealing Samsung, SK Patents

Megalith

Megalith

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Samsung and SK hynix claim that Chinese companies have been attempting to steal their intellectual property as a quicker means of becoming an established player in the flash memory and DRAM industry. According to one Samsung engineer, China was not prepared for the difficulty in developing these technologies, so they are now taking shortcuts.

Analysts say industrial espionage in the chip sector is a real threat, particularly given China's huge ambition in the industry, as intellectual property theft is the easiest way to obtain advanced technology. The advance of Chinese semiconductor companies will change the established balance of the industry, and with intellectual property theft involved, the entry time "could be" shortened significantly, according to market analysts.
 
I just spent $80 for 8GB of DDR4 memory, so excuse me if I don't shed a tear for Samsung and Hynix. All this tells me is that once China starts producing memory, we consumers are finally going to see cheaper prices.
 
DukenukemX said:
I just spent $80 for 8GB of DDR4 memory, so excuse me if I don't shed a tear for Samsung and Hynix. All this tells me is that once China starts producing memory, we consumers are finally going to see cheaper prices.
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Nah, it will be taffifs-ed out of that possibility.... We at war now, no more cheap stuff from China. Hopefully we will go back to make shit here, but I am not holding my breath.
 
i don't care.

if they flood the market with ddr4 and torpedo the price of memory then good, infringe away.

fuck oligopolies.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Nah, it will be taffifs-ed out of that possibility.... We at war now, no more cheap stuff from China. Hopefully we will go back to make shit here, but I am not holding my breath.
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Personally, I don't think that'll happen. Americans buy products that are already over priced, based on what you're willing to spend, not on what it costs to make it, including tariffs. Costs Apple $250 to make an iPhone but costs you $800+ to buy it. Apple even went so far as to try $1k which seems to be the limit people are willing to spend on an overpriced phone.

I personally bought a $13 water block for my Ryzen 1700 that's from China. Water blocks with name brands cost $100, for some reason. While people may praise brand names for making quality products, I don't buy that shit. I've bought brand name water blocks that must have been made by monkeys. Seriously, OCZ water block that was half copper and half aluminium. The damn aluminium was eating away cause it was a freakin battery from the moment I put water in it.

Anyway, my point is that the price of products won't change and companies are more than likely going to eat the difference, cause they can simply do so. You can't just increase the price of products and expect people to pay for them. The Xbox One to PS4 has a 1:2 sales ratio cause the Xbox One was originally sold for $100 more. People have a limit on what they're willing to spend on products. If it really bothers companies for the cost of tariffs then they can move their factories to the states. They won't, but they could.
 
mygreeneggsandham said:
This is China’s business model. Aside from the chop stick I’m not sure they have developed any technology on their own. Invention is normally not the strong suit of any communist nation.
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Yep. They don't innovate, they replicate. That's why they're a powerhouse in production but not known for making anything better.

It even shows that it's a cultural thing when you attend tradeshows here in the states and see a Chinese company booth. I've seen them get very protective "no photos, no photos" (signs everywhere) of their displays. That to me signals it's a known issue (guilty conscious?).
 
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mygreeneggsandham said:
This is China’s business model. Aside from the chop stick I’m not sure they have developed any technology on their own. Invention is normally not the strong suit of any communist nation.
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There is pyrotechnics, paper and many other developments that are attributed to China. Hope you guys enjoy the fireworks.
 
If china starts making ram it'll break. China is well known for making knock offs of the real thing .And the quality is total shit. Last thing I need when buying ram is if chips were made by stolen IP from china.
Fuck China and Russia both are bad.
 
Espionage and counter espionage has always been a deal in high tech. Just have to be smart enough not to get caught.

Dummy plans and files will get placed. it's business as usual.
 
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DukenukemX said:
I just spent $80 for 8GB of DDR4 memory, so excuse me if I don't shed a tear for Samsung and Hynix. All this tells me is that once China starts producing memory, we consumers are finally going to see cheaper prices.
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Same mentality is why companies outsource job s and bribe congress for H1B visas.
 
DukenukemX said:
I just spent $80 for 8GB of DDR4 memory, so excuse me if I don't shed a tear for Samsung and Hynix. All this tells me is that once China starts producing memory, we consumers are finally going to see cheaper prices.
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So you spent more than what you want so now you're cool with IP theft? I'm sure if it was your patents you would have a change of heart.
 
workshop35 said:
So you spent more than what you want so now you're cool with IP theft? I'm sure if it was your patents you would have a change of heart.
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All this tells me is that there will be products that LOOK like a substitutable good. You know, so long as you don't mind thermal paste made out of grass clippings, heat syncs made out of "aluminum" that still have tooling marks from when they were soup cans, and the like.
 
Well, I guess they better keep building manufacturing plants in countries where the government will turn a blind eye to IP theft!
 
The problem with China is that a lot of the leadership of these corporations that engage on IP theft are members of communist party elite. Where corruption and greed were part of the job and the favoritism that was common there. The corruption is at the top in their government. That's why the bogus judge found as he did. Xi needs to cull at the top. Have some balls and stab your buddies so the sharks eat them.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Nah, it will be taffifs-ed out of that possibility.... We at war now, no more cheap stuff from China. Hopefully we will go back to make shit here, but I am not holding my breath.
Click to expand...
The problem is that for most of the manufacturing done in China, it is simply not possible to make the product here in the US due to the high cost of labor in the US. Trade wars are a lose/lose situation. Either we will pay more for the same product or the product simply won't be made.
 
Nobody here would be complaining if they were getting knockoff graphics cards for pennies on the dollar from Monoprice.
 
Oh, aren't Samsung and Hynix under investigation for price fixing? You just can't make this shit up hehe

Good thing they didn't have IP laws in prehistoric times. "What do you mean some other tribe is using fire without paying us any tribute?! See if we can take them down. If not, let's make sure everyone else knows their fire isn't safe. People need to know!"

Technically it's IP theft alright. But everyone with the means is doing it. The NSA was shown to be spying on the entire fucking world. Surely they didn't honestly expect to find any terrorist plots developing in the offices of major companies around the world.
 
Spidey329 said:
Yep. They don't innovate, they replicate. That's why they're a powerhouse in production but not known for making anything better.

It even shows that it's a cultural thing when you attend tradeshows here in the states and see a Chinese company booth. I've seen them get very protective "no photos, no photos" (signs everywhere) of their displays. That to me signals it's a known issue (guilty conscious?).
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Replication is part of learning too, nothing new there.. US is not exempt from criticism, operation paper clip and all.
So a
dgz said:
Oh, aren't Samsung and Hynix under investigation for price fixing? You just can't make this shit up hehe

Good thing they didn't have IP laws in prehistoric times. "What do you mean some other tribe is using fire without paying us any tribute?! See if we can take them down. If not, let's make sure everyone else knows their fire isn't safe. People need to know!"

Technically it's IP theft alright. But everyone with the means is doing it. The NSA was shown to be spying on the entire fucking world. Surely they didn't honestly expect to find any terrorist plots developing in the offices of major companies around the world.
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You know, i guess we wouldn't report on our own IP theft . Now, i wonder how the transfer is performed from the theft to the company... Know USA typical hypocritical bullshit it would be done "above board like" by creating companies with new ideas and IP to be taken over quick.
 
gigaxtreme1 said:
There is pyrotechnics, paper and many other developments that are attributed to China. Hope you guys enjoy the fireworks.
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None of those were invented under the communist regime. In fairness, neither was the chop stick that you were responding to.
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
The problem is that for most of the manufacturing done in China, it is simply not possible to make the product here in the US due to the high cost of labor in the US. Trade wars are a lose/lose situation. Either we will pay more for the same product or the product simply won't be made.
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At the end of the day it's a matter of getting the same thing for more money, but hey we'll have jobs here you say! Others will simply see it as a type of welfare, sure there could be far reaching economic effects of keeping money in the US as well but the average consumer does not think that far. And lets be honest, bringing low level manufacturing jobs to the US is NOT going to give us a higher quality product, those laborers that will do that job are not fine craftsmen that will bring forth a superior product to justify the increase in cost. And lets be honest, all it takes is one Ikea type of store to simply say "no" and bring in Chinese made stuff so they can charge a lower price and every other business who wants to compete will follow and we're back at square one.
 
China appears to steal everything since they can't or won't come up with their own unique ideas.
 
S-F said:
Nobody here would be complaining if they were getting knockoff graphics cards for pennies on the dollar from Monoprice.
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Everyone here would be complaining when they self-destruct on the 31st day of ownership.
 
The USA perhaps, but the rest of the sensible world will reap the benefits.

Uvaman2 said:
Nah, it will be taffifs-ed out of that possibility.... We at war now, no more cheap stuff from China. Hopefully we will go back to make shit here, but I am not holding my breath.
Click to expand...
 
DukenukemX said:
I just spent $80 for 8GB of DDR4 memory, so excuse me if I don't shed a tear for Samsung and Hynix. All this tells me is that once China starts producing memory, we consumers are finally going to see cheaper prices.
Click to expand...
They can’t produce viable memory even with cheating. IP theft is the true motive behind the China “Trade War” and is why there has been no progress nor will there be for some time; China’s ambitions all rely on thievery and they can’t conceed to US demands to stop it without giving up their goals.

Uvaman2 said:
Nah, it will be taffifs-ed out of that possibility.... We at war now, no more cheap stuff from China. Hopefully we will go back to make shit here, but I am not holding my breath.
Click to expand...
Infringing produces would be banned, but China’s goal is not to sell their memory internationally, it’s to be self sufficient internally so they are not beholden to foreign companies such as the Koreans, Micron, or their respective governments.

Anyone who thinks China will have viable memory products (let alone at volume) don’t have a clue.

Master_shake_ said:
i don't care.

if they flood the market with ddr4 and torpedo the price of memory then good, infringe away.

fuck oligopolies.
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May I ask what you do for a living?

DRAM mfgs are now an oligopoly because it was impossible for all but a handful of companies to stay in business with companies competing for market share. Now that they’re adding capacity in a disciplined fashion offer decades of history showing that trying to grab market share at all costs destroys their ability to make money we hear accusations of price fisxing and other “unfair” business practices, but what you want is for the companies to sell you a product at a loss. How is that fair?

You know what would drop DRAM prices? Enforcing a minimum price, aka price fixing.

Galvin said:
If china starts making ram it'll break. China is well known for making knock offs of the real thing .And the quality is total shit. Last thing I need when buying ram is if chips were made by stolen IP from china.
Fuck China and Russia both are bad.
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They will be 2-3 generations behind and their yields will be awful. Best case estimates for them are about 10% supply increase by the mid 2020s that would sell at a loss (again, they’re not in it to make money but they can’t run at a loss forever). I remember reading “China’s semiconductor guru” state that they won’t catch up until the 2030s.

HockeyJon said:
Well, I guess they better keep building manufacturing plants in countries where the government will turn a blind eye to IP theft!
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Agree, incredibly shortsighted move (by Samsung/SKH at least) with China’s historical track record of IP theft. I can see industry groups like OPEC for memory forming to counteract the blatant theft and infringement of IP.

gigaxtreme1 said:
The problem with China is that a lot of the leadership of these corporations that engage on IP theft are members of communist party elite. Where corruption and greed were part of the job and the favoritism that was common there. The corruption is at the top in their government. That's why the bogus judge found as he did. Xi needs to cull at the top. Have some balls and stab your buddies so the sharks eat them.
Click to expand...
The provincial government for the court that recently issued a preliminary injunction against Micron is a major stakeholder in the Chinese joint venture with UMC, the plaintiff in that case. Oh, and do you know that JV had their IPO the next day?

[21CW]killerofall said:
The problem is that for most of the manufacturing done in China, it is simply not possible to make the product here in the US due to the high cost of labor in the US. Trade wars are a lose/lose situation. Either we will pay more for the same product or the product simply won't be made.
Click to expand...
The cost of manual labor for memory manufacturing is neglible.

dgz said:
Oh, aren't Samsung and Hynix under investigation for price fixing? You just can't make this shit up hehe

Good thing they didn't have IP laws in prehistoric times. "What do you mean some other tribe is using fire without paying us any tribute?! See if we can take them down. If not, let's make sure everyone else knows their fire isn't safe. People need to know!"

Technically it's IP theft alright. But everyone with the means is doing it. The NSA was shown to be spying on the entire fucking world. Surely they didn't honestly expect to find any terrorist plots developing in the offices of major companies around the world.
Click to expand...
That’s china’s MO: bring trumped up charges against their victims to force a settlement. The memory mfgs should band together in issue a self imposed embargo on China. Short term pain but they would crush China.
 
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