Plexus VR Controllers Getting Handier

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
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Think what you want about VR, but it is going to change the world, and products like Plexus is going to be one of the reasons why. Plexus is getting ready to start seeding its dev kits this quarter. You can kick this up to 1m20s mark to see the Plexus hand controllers in action. Impressive assuredly.

Check out the video.
 
god-damn that's cool! About the only thing those look like they're missing is tactile feedback for contact with objects.
 
Something else will come out before these are released to the public.

We still waiting on the Knuckles.
 
Guarana [BAWLS] said:
god-damn that's cool! About the only thing those look like they're missing is tactile feedback for contact with objects.
Click to expand...
Reading is fundamental.

Tactile Feedback: 5 (one per finger) tactile actuators
 
Owned by a London based company Digital Kinematics that's very small at the moment.
 
VR Porn is going to be awesome with those!

But seriously, those are pretty damn awesome, just a bit more and we will have full suits and a better working omni treadmill and we can all be in ready player 1.
 
My issue with this is costing $250 without trackers of any sort.

Yes, you can awkwardly strap the Vive/Oculus controllers to the back of your hand, but still...no thanks for that price.
 
MavericK said:
My issue with this is costing $250 without trackers of any sort.

Yes, you can awkwardly strap the Vive/Oculus controllers to the back of your hand, but still...no thanks for that price.
Click to expand...
These are developer kits not retail products.
 
Odd, promo video not working on the HardOCP embed, or on their site.
 
MavericK said:
My issue with this is costing $250 without trackers of any sort.

Yes, you can awkwardly strap the Vive/Oculus controllers to the back of your hand, but still...no thanks for that price.
Click to expand...

$250 breaks your bank for fully articulated hands in VR..........?
 
I am curious about how much it will cost for traking without having to stick a tracking widget (at least VIVE has those widgets as opposed to whole controllers) on. If that's a feature that will be added down the road once they merge full on support into SteamVR / VIVE tracking etc.. that's all well and good. If its something that will require yet another expensive hardware add-on, then I'll be less enthused. Given they're dev kits, I really hope that the "ready for the public" version does not somehow sacrifice wide compatibility or features.

One question I have however is how much mucking about does it take for current games, made for typical VIVE controllers or whatnot, to support Plexus gloves? If it means the devs need to go about configuring the game specifically to work with it that's perhaps understandable but less engaging, compared to if they can add support at the driver/VR/engine level that will make it so that games do not have to support this tech specifically and individually to work. I'm also curious at how it will feel and how good the haptics are. For instance, as of yet we don't have haptics that are so good that can properly 'feel" a gun or sword in the hand at a high enough fidelity without some sort of "blank" or faux-item. If Plexus can provide this, while also offering good enough functionality (ie player pulls their finger on the trigger properly, which feels right, gun actually shoots etc) compared to existing buttons-sticks-and-pads VR controllers, that will be impressive.

The price I won't balk at necessarily given what seems to be great specs and these are development kits. Better yet, it seems to suggest they're " currently shipping" , so it isn't some tech that may never materialize outside a demo reel. I think the reservations is basically picking your place in line for shipment soon as Kyle said . Overall its rather exciting and if it delivers soon that's even better. I'm baffled as to why the VIVE second generation "Knuckles" controller has taken SO long to come out and frankly if these release in a semi-usable state they'll probably completely outmode Knuckles; after all, I'd rather have a haptic glove than anything else and have been saying that for a long time.

Of course the real issue with high end VR is the price versus the pace of development. I'd love to pick up a VIVE Pro, but its full kit price is nearly DOUBLE of that when the VIVE itself was brand new, at around $1400+. That seems insane for some incremental updates to the headset itself and minor upgrades to the other hardware after what.. 2 or 3 years? The wireless module itself is still on the way and costs extra, as does the Knuckles controller if it ever arrives. I was fully expecting the VIVE Pro kit to be around the same price as its predecessor at launch, $800-ish, but not nearly such a huge premium for modest upgrades, with even more to buy on the horizon.
 
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That's pretty damn neat. I have limited experience with VR, but it still looks like we are quite a ways away from a practical application with something like this - such as laparoscopic surgery. I might be way off, only messed around with a Vive for a bit and have a Gear collecting dust that came with my phone... You guys that have been on this from the start might have a much different opinion!
 
MavericK said:
With no tracking capability included? Yes.
Click to expand...

Presumably you already own the tech to velcro to the backs of these gloves, pretty sure that is where they were headed with this. These gloves would make gestures more important however since button presses and directional movement will now be gestures and virtual...or so I'm guessing.
 
HeadRusch said:
Presumably you already own the tech to velcro to the backs of these gloves, pretty sure that is where they were headed with this. These gloves would make gestures more important however since button presses and directional movement will now be gestures and virtual...or so I'm guessing.
Click to expand...

Regardless, if tracking was built in I might pay $250. I know it's a dev kit...still.

Your second point about lack of buttons and whatnot is why I'm more excited about the Valve Knuckles controllers.
 
Should be interesting to see these come the next few years. There's a few others, including HaptX which uses mechanics on the back of the hand to control the range of travel (e.g. so if you are holding a solid ball, you wouldn't be able to close your grip completely).

Given the look of this glove, I'm guessing their tactile feedback isn't as advanced in exchange for a lower profile glove.
 
That's really cool stuff. I'm curious how he's going to get his finger gestures into the games, though. Biggest hold back for these devices is the lack of an API joining the game developer to the hardware developer. Video cards, sound, joysticks, mice, wheels, game pads and now VR all work because they are speaking to a standardized API, particularly in Windows, which the game developer implements and exposes so those items work in his game. The only VR input I've played with used a mishmash of other APIs to get around that.

Spidey329 said:
Given the look of this glove, I'm guessing their tactile feedback isn't as advanced in exchange for a lower profile glove.
Click to expand...

The one that I played with (which was a home-grown unit at the university I worked at) used a simple piece of string (like fishing line) across the pad of each finger, which would tighten slightly when you were touching something. Just one piece of string around the center of each finger tip, but I was surprised at how much information your brain got from such a tiny input. It was really cool.
 
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MavericK said:
Regardless, if tracking was built in I might pay $250. I know it's a dev kit...still.

Your second point about lack of buttons and whatnot is why I'm more excited about the Valve Knuckles controllers.
Click to expand...

Agreed, this will be a very good controller for many applications that are not games, for games there will be some options I'm sure such as we see here, but I like buttons and the ability to 'multi-task' my fingers in VR.....the grip controller looks like it has promise in closing that gap between having real hands in VR...and then being stuck with "just" real hands in VR :)
 
Xaeos said:
I am curious about how much it will cost for traking without having to stick a tracking widget (at least VIVE has those widgets as opposed to whole controllers) on. If that's a feature that will be added down the road once they merge full on support into SteamVR / VIVE tracking etc.. that's all well and good. If its something that will require yet another expensive hardware add-on, then I'll be less enthused. Given they're dev kits, I really hope that the "ready for the public" version does not somehow sacrifice wide compatibility or features.

One question I have however is how much mucking about does it take for current games, made for typical VIVE controllers or whatnot, to support Plexus gloves? If it means the devs need to go about configuring the game specifically to work with it that's perhaps understandable but less engaging, compared to if they can add support at the driver/VR/engine level that will make it so that games do not have to support this tech specifically and individually to work. I'm also curious at how it will feel and how good the haptics are. For instance, as of yet we don't have haptics that are so good that can properly 'feel" a gun or sword in the hand at a high enough fidelity without some sort of "blank" or faux-item. If Plexus can provide this, while also offering good enough functionality (ie player pulls their finger on the trigger properly, which feels right, gun actually shoots etc) compared to existing buttons-sticks-and-pads VR controllers, that will be impressive.

The price I won't balk at necessarily given what seems to be great specs and these are development kits. Better yet, it seems to suggest they're " currently shipping" , so it isn't some tech that may never materialize outside a demo reel. I think the reservations is basically picking your place in line for shipment soon as Kyle said . Overall its rather exciting and if it delivers soon that's even better. I'm baffled as to why the VIVE second generation "Knuckles" controller has taken SO long to come out and frankly if these release in a semi-usable state they'll probably completely outmode Knuckles; after all, I'd rather have a haptic glove than anything else and have been saying that for a long time.

Of course the real issue with high end VR is the price versus the pace of development. I'd love to pick up a VIVE Pro, but its full kit price is nearly DOUBLE of that when the VIVE itself was brand new, at around $1400+. That seems insane for some incremental updates to the headset itself and minor upgrades to the other hardware after what.. 2 or 3 years? The wireless module itself is still on the way and costs extra, as does the Knuckles controller if it ever arrives. I was fully expecting the VIVE Pro kit to be around the same price as its predecessor at launch, $800-ish, but not nearly such a huge premium for modest upgrades, with even more to buy on the horizon.
Click to expand...

We are working on our own tracking Halo for the Vive, don't have a price point yet but will release it in an update in the coming weeks.

While we are working on backward compatibility with current controllers using gestures, the real value add is from making content that's made to work with haptics from the ground up. It will take some time for game developers to incorporate this but with the newly released Steam Skeletal API, the bigger players are making clear steps in the right direction.

We are deffinitely aware of the price sensitivity of the consumer market, and we trying to bring the price even lower for a consumer version that's due to be released next year, watch this space! :)
 
Eugene_Plexus said:
We are working on our own tracking Halo for the Vive, don't have a price point yet but will release it in an update in the coming weeks.

While we are working on backward compatibility with current controllers using gestures, the real value add is from making content that's made to work with haptics from the ground up. It will take some time for game developers to incorporate this but with the newly released Steam Skeletal API, the bigger players are making clear steps in the right direction.

We are deffinitely aware of the price sensitivity of the consumer market, and we trying to bring the price even lower for a consumer version that's due to be released next year, watch this space! :)
Click to expand...

Thank you kindly for your reponse!

I'm glad to hear about your own tracking halo - that is what is demoed briefly in the video, am I correct? The well.. Halo/circular shaped, closely attached sensor around the wrist area? Is this something that will be included/built in for the consumer version and/or bundled into future dev kit purchases? Would it offer any additional functionality benefits versus the standard Vive sensor addon or other features? I do commend you greatly for offering compatibility options for a wide array of tech, both built in or via add-ons of one sort or another. I can understand an additional price point to purchase as an add-on; after all, one would otherwise have to purchase one of those Vive sensors instead and it seems the halo sounds a better alternative from a comfort and possibly functionality standpoint.

Planning to have some backward compatibility is appreciated but I can understand that the best features will for titles with haptic gloves supported directly. From your mention of the Steam Skeletal API, does this mean that Plexus uses mostly "standardized" APIs so to speak? That is to say, developers may have to support Steam Skeletal API or some sort of haptic/glove related tech, and Plexus' functionality will be fully compatible using this, as opposed to requiring the dev to specifically and exclusively use a Plexus only API/SDK proprietary element etc.? I very emphatically support using what ever sort of open (source, if possible) APIs/SDKs and wide compatibility with other open technologies and standard, which I can see having benefits across the board for all involved; I'd definitely be more likely to purchase your product with wide compatibility and as open as possible.

I appreciate your concern for the pricing of the consumer market and if you can bring your tech to a lower price when you scale up next year that's great, but, at least for my perspective, I would prioritize retaining quality and features to lowering the price and I think many others in the market would feel the same. Having Plexus use the best technology available, the widest feature set, openness, and build quality I'd consider of much greater preference combined with a slimmed down, more proprietary, less feature-rich, lesser build quality and materials etc.. used to stick to a lower price point.

Oh and a small note since you're reading with regards to build quality and materials - I request that you please research into the use of healthful materials, especially those that will form the structure of the gloves and touch the hands. Users are going to be wearing them, with hands that sweat they heat up from active play etc.. and there are many plastics, PVCs , elastomers and other components that contain endocrine-disrupting elements or otherwise add to the cumulative exposure to unhealthful ((Phthalates , BPA/BPS, PFOA etc.) substances - including transdermally. Thankfully, there are many healthful, durable alternatives out there from (ie high grade silicone as opposed to a vinyl/elastomer that contains DEP or another phthalate), but it does require awareness and interest in the use of better materials. Especially when developing a wearable peripheral of this sort, please consider the healthfulness and quality of the materials, including the "inert" elements that surround the "active" ones.

I wish you the best in developing your Plexus gloves and am strongly considering a pair for myself in the future. Thanks again!
 
Ha, company person on this thread
DISCOUNT CODE FOR [H] members :D

Shill away


Now onto the product. I think its great. I'd love to see these get to the point of not needing any kinda of other controller, but that will rely on content support also. I hope it all goes in that direction
 
It is cool, but people come in a large variety of configurations and sizes. Missing a finger, fat fingers, fused joint, little hands, obsessed with wearing tons of jewelry, etc. Tough to make it a one size fits all.
 
I think camera-tracked hands/fingers are more impressive and a more immediate success than gloves... unless of course there is some groundbreaking haptic feedback in here that they didn't showcase
 
Xaeos said:
Thank you kindly for your reponse!

I'm glad to hear about your own tracking halo - that is what is demoed briefly in the video, am I correct? The well.. Halo/circular shaped, closely attached sensor around the wrist area? Is this something that will be included/built in for the consumer version and/or bundled into future dev kit purchases? Would it offer any additional functionality benefits versus the standard Vive sensor addon or other features? I do commend you greatly for offering compatibility options for a wide array of tech, both built in or via add-ons of one sort or another. I can understand an additional price point to purchase as an add-on; after all, one would otherwise have to purchase one of those Vive sensors instead and it seems the halo sounds a better alternative from a comfort and possibly functionality standpoint.

Planning to have some backward compatibility is appreciated but I can understand that the best features will for titles with haptic gloves supported directly. From your mention of the Steam Skeletal API, does this mean that Plexus uses mostly "standardized" APIs so to speak? That is to say, developers may have to support Steam Skeletal API or some sort of haptic/glove related tech, and Plexus' functionality will be fully compatible using this, as opposed to requiring the dev to specifically and exclusively use a Plexus only API/SDK proprietary element etc.? I very emphatically support using what ever sort of open (source, if possible) APIs/SDKs and wide compatibility with other open technologies and standard, which I can see having benefits across the board for all involved; I'd definitely be more likely to purchase your product with wide compatibility and as open as possible.

I appreciate your concern for the pricing of the consumer market and if you can bring your tech to a lower price when you scale up next year that's great, but, at least for my perspective, I would prioritize retaining quality and features to lowering the price and I think many others in the market would feel the same. Having Plexus use the best technology available, the widest feature set, openness, and build quality I'd consider of much greater preference combined with a slimmed down, more proprietary, less feature-rich, lesser build quality and materials etc.. used to stick to a lower price point.

Oh and a small note since you're reading with regards to build quality and materials - I request that you please research into the use of healthful materials, especially those that will form the structure of the gloves and touch the hands. Users are going to be wearing them, with hands that sweat they heat up from active play etc.. and there are many plastics, PVCs , elastomers and other components that contain endocrine-disrupting elements or otherwise add to the cumulative exposure to unhealthful ((Phthalates , BPA/BPS, PFOA etc.) substances - including transdermally. Thankfully, there are many healthful, durable alternatives out there from (ie high grade silicone as opposed to a vinyl/elastomer that contains DEP or another phthalate), but it does require awareness and interest in the use of better materials. Especially when developing a wearable peripheral of this sort, please consider the healthfulness and quality of the materials, including the "inert" elements that surround the "active" ones.

I wish you the best in developing your Plexus gloves and am strongly considering a pair for myself in the future. Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Tracking Halo: Yep that's the one. Tha plan is to have it for the consumer version but also to make it available as an add-on for the dev kit. The beauty of the magnetic lock system is that the tracking system is modular and can be retrofitted easily.

Skeletal API: Right now developers have to work with a different controller setup for every system (some are similar of course) but at the end of the day the controller just a proxy between your hand and the computer. The Skeletal API makes a lot of sense and is definitely a step in the right direction... assuming others follow that API of course. We plan to keep our API open, apart from the Unreal Engine and Unity integration, we often get approached about interesting integrations which would require direct API access

Price vs Quality: We've spent a lot of time developing the technology that allows Plexus not only to be more affordable but also much higher performance that's what's out in the market right now. Most of the savings will come from volume pricing and optimizations.

Materials: We've gone through a quite a bit of research on the choice of materials, Plexus gloves are washable and are designed to be worn for relatively long VR sessions.

Thanks for the great questions and tips, we are very excited to be working the community to make truly immersive VR a reality.
 
I love the idea of the glove, but as it is now I am more interested in the knuckles controller. Having no control surfaces like the track pad will make backwards compatibility awkward IMHO. I wouldn't be a buyer of this technology till I can see how you implement backwards compatibility to a standard controller. I think the biggest downside for glove based VR will be the way you can deal with not having a control surface like the track pad. It is basically essential in almost every game made now, and has 2 modes one where it senses where your thumb is on the pad and the one where it knows where your thumb is and the pad is being pressed down. I think that is going to be difficult to do in a satisfying way.
 
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