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Still would like to know if MSI will have Gaming AMD chipset/socket motherboards? How can they not have Radeon on those motherboards as well since you have APU's with Radeon's. This is getting ridicules having so many unanswered questions for such a supposedly transparent program.So I guess MSI Gaming can only be applied to the GTX 1080ti and above.
What a bunch of hypocrites MSI is. Every mother board and gpu they sell that is not the bottom of the barrel has 'GAMING' written all over it.
The difference is, Nvidia's products are actually superior and Apple is generally crap. The closest thing to Apple in the GPU industry is EVGA.Apple
The difference is, Nvidia's products are actually superior and Apple is generally crap. The closest thing to Apple in the GPU industry is EVGA.
The difference is, Nvidia's products are actually superior and Apple is generally crap. The closest thing to Apple in the GPU industry is EVGA.
It's the fact that AMD took a year and a half to launch a weaker product that costs more and uses more power. And the cycle will repeat itself within a month or two, when Volta launches. In fact this entire discussion could be null in as little as 24 HOURS if Huang announces GTX 1100 tomorrow. That's where we're at with Nvidia's timetable. What's next for AMD? More Vegas? Navi at the end of 2019?Superior? Like how? Besides power efficiency? Their reliance on driver compilers to perform? Or dragging down the PC gaming was their GPUs are engineered for yesterdays DX11? Or the fact that they don't get any performance gains, or as a matter of fact, lose performance on modern APIs like Vulkan or DX12? Or the fact that their Turdgra CPUs were the worst thing ever on tablets and phones? Why Apple is crap? When they have the fastest ARM CPU on the market? Or one of the best cameras on a smartphone? Or the best displays? Battery life etc? Why selective memory or opinionated/biased facts?
Which has fuck all to do with Nvidia using their position in the market to force agreements on other companies to push AMD out.It's the fact that AMD took a year and a half to launch a weaker product that costs more and uses more power. And the cycle will repeat itself within a month or two, when Volta launches. In fact this entire discussion could be null in as little as 24 HOURS if Huang announces GTX 1100 tomorrow. That's where we're at with Nvidia's timetable. What's next for AMD? More Vegas? Navi at the end of 2019?
AMD manages to be barely competitive for 6 months out of every 1.5 years... And to clarify, "Nvidia is superior" does not mean "AMD sucks at everything".
The only comparison between Nvidia and Apple is that they're both "big bads" which is apparently enough for some people.
Which has fuck all to do with Nvidia using their position in the market to force agreements on other companies to push AMD out.
If it weren't for the leaks then nobody would even know this program existed -- or at least, cared about its existence. There's a tiny little marketing blurb about it on Nvidia's website:
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/03/01/geforce-partner-program/
Aside from that, nothing else. So I think their primary goal was just to keep attention away from it, and have the AIBs drop their gaming brands over time / roll out new ones / adjust their marketing material. If it was a slow drip then nobody would've noticed until the damage was done. It's a lot easier to 'see through it' once you've had it all laid out in front of you.
The real question is, why did they publicize it at all? They didn't even need to announce anything since it's all internal anyway.
It's the fact that AMD took a year and a half to launch a weaker product that costs more and uses more power. And the cycle will repeat itself within a month or two, when Volta launches. In fact this entire discussion could be null in as little as 24 HOURS if Huang announces GTX 1100 tomorrow. That's where we're at with Nvidia's timetable. What's next for AMD? More Vegas? Navi at the end of 2019?
AMD manages to be barely competitive for 6 months out of every 1.5 years... And to clarify, "Nvidia is superior" does not mean "AMD sucks at everything".
The only comparison between Nvidia and Apple is that they're both "big bads" which is apparently enough for some people.
So much apologist stuff that it is funny. Power was never a concern back then on the Fermi era as nVidia still sold more cards than AMD and now suddenly power its an issue lol. Inconsistency is the biggest characteristic of nVidia fan girls. The fact that nVidia haven't been able to develop a full DX12 capable card that does not lose FPS when activating such feature says a lot of their simple hardware that runs a complex software structure to make it up what is missing on hardware, do you think efficiency comes through a magic wand? lol
Typical, ignore everything and keep on bashing.
DX 12 is an issue on Pascal, a two year old line. DX 12 is also a steaming pile of garbage as it's locked to W10 and pushes workload onto the developer, highly unlikely many devs will want to put the work into polishing DX12 themselves, most still stick with dx11 and it has nothing to do with Nvidia.
AMD has real problems, they cannot compete in the high end, so they target the mid-range (and do well there performance wise but not watt wise). Electricity is more expensive today than before and that trend looks to be continuing, so it's a factor today when it wasn't a decade ago.
Nvidia has halo status so mid-range amd gets ignored when it shouldn't. That's about the only issue outside of the elephant in the room (GPP).
Typical fangirl logic instead of addressing the issue wth real facts. Just cause you don'tlike Windows 10, it does not mean that it is useless. It is far more efficient than Windows 8, uses less power, its more optimized for multicore CPUs and supports a newer Driver Model that can't be supported on Windows 8 or Windows 7, OS that are more than five years on. You need to move on or either embrace it or move to Linux. DX12 is an amazing engineering feat which requires a new different programming model and skills and will take time, and so is Vulkan. The fact that a game like Doom, looks so good and runs so well on a wide range of hardware, compared to other games mostly under the nVidia TWIMTBP program which still dragging down the gaming industry with an obsolete DX11 API and its bug infested Gameworks features, leaves a lot to be desired. Doom, Deus EX HK, Hitman are games that looks amazing and can be maxed at 1080p with midrange hardware, try the same thing with the Gameworks infested FFXV, Assassin Creed etc, they look worse, and runs terrible even on a GTX 1080 with its constant lag, stuttering and visual glitches.
Typical fangirl logic instead of addressing the issue wth real facts. Just cause you don'tlike Windows 10, it does not mean that it is useless. It is far more efficient than Windows 8, uses less power, its more optimized for multicore CPUs and supports a newer Driver Model that can't be supported on Windows 8 or Windows 7, OS that are more than five years on. You need to move on or either embrace it or move to Linux. DX12 is an amazing engineering feat which requires a new different programming model and skills and will take time, and so is Vulkan. The fact that a game like Doom, looks so good and runs so well on a wide range of hardware, compared to other games mostly under the nVidia TWIMTBP program which still dragging down the gaming industry with an obsolete DX11 API and its bug infested Gameworks features, leaves a lot to be desired. Doom, Deus EX HK, Hitman are games that looks amazing and can be maxed at 1080p with midrange hardware, try the same thing with the Gameworks infested FFXV, Assassin Creed etc, they look worse, and runs terrible even on a GTX 1080 with its constant lag, stuttering and visual glitches.
Meh.
The improvements in Windows 10 are incremental.
- The SMP kernel improvements were already there in Windows 8.
- DX12 is really only useful on low end CPU's. Anything with a high end CPU and GPU tends to run better in DX11 anyway. At least that is the case with every title with DX12 support I've tested.
- The new driver model doesn't appear to do anything at all, except break backwards compatibility. I have yet to see any improvements from it. I don't know why you list this as a feature.
Windows 10 does have some notable improvements. The base install uses less disk space than any version of Windows since XP. It also uses RAM more efficiently.
The question is, are these improvements really sufficient to convince me to switch to a system with forced preinstalled freemium apps, windows store, online accounts, forced Xbox integration, as well as clock apps, camera apps, weather apps as if I have some goddamned tablet? And that's not to mention data collection and other junk that I don't want. Probably not. If I still used windows as my primary OS, I'd rather just buy a larger SSD and more RAM and stick with Windows 7 (or Windows 8.1 with classic shell)
The truth is, I switched to Linux as my primary OS in ~2001 and haven't looked back since. I started with Redhat, used Gentoo for several years, then tried Ubuntu. For the last few years I have been using Mint.
I still dual boot to Windows, but only for games. I never browse the web or run any kind of other software under windows. If I feel like running a game, I reboot into windows, and launch my game, and when done, I immediately reboot again back into Linux. I don't even have a Microsoft account. Only local machine accounts. If I were forced to get an online Microsoft account, I'd probably just wipe my Windows partition.
The thing is, if - as an individual - I could buy a copy of the Enterprise edition, I probably wouldn't mind Windows 10 that much. If I could even uninstall all of the junk I don't want in the Pro edition, I wouldn't mind it that much, but as it is, I hate it. I don't want an ecosystem a la Apple's OSX or Googles Android. I just want a standalone OS.
Nope, Windows 10 has several improvements not found on Windows 8. DX12 removes the biggest bottleneck on DX11, the draw call main thread which is single theraded. The new driver model offers higher efficiency, better multi core performance, smoother animations and so on. Don't try to mix your disgust of Windows 10 with the facts. I also hate a lt of stuff like it, having duplicate applets for doing the same thing, the increased VRAM usage on the latest updates, the Freemium thing etc.
Airoth - Cry me a river.
So much apologist stuff that it is funny. Power was never a concern back then on the Fermi era as nVidia still sold more cards than AMD and now suddenly power its an issue lol. Inconsistency is the biggest characteristic of nVidia fan girls. The fact that nVidia haven't been able to develop a full DX12 capable card that does not lose FPS when activating such feature says a lot of their simple hardware that runs a complex software structure to make it up what is missing on hardware, do you think efficiency comes through a magic wand? lol
Power was never a concern back then on the Fermi era as nVidia still sold more cards than AMD and now suddenly power its an issue lol.
Gonna address this one specifically, I do hope that Kyle doesn't mind.
Power was absolutely a concern; whenever one solution is providing similar performance but with significantly different power usage, that is absolutely a point of consideration.
It's obviously not a problem for many enthusiasts- most of us run systems, at least our primary gaming systems, that have power supply and cooling resources to spare. However, it is certainly a problem for:
This isn't a one-sided charge against AMD as you seem to imply. It's a reality at all levels- see any 1080Ti's in consumer laptops? How about the smallest SFF's? Vega 56/64 in an iMac? These are real limitations, and when one vendor offers a real advantage in the field, it's notable!
- Enthusiasts concerned with building small and quiet, which are opposing goals after a certain point
- Enthusiasts concerned with energy efficiency, which is a two-fold problem for any computing: you have to use power to utilize computing resources, and you have to use power to cool the heated air- air conditioning can be expensive!
- System integrators, ranging from local custom builders, botiques of various sizes, on up to the Apple's and Dell's- less efficient parts either mean giving up performance to the competition or increasing the BOM for more power supply capacity and more cooling (and potentially noise damping, which means more weight and higher shipping costs...)
So in relation to the topic, what you are saying is you support anti-competitive practices and companies.I can't agree more. When ATI released the first Radeon card and I saw higher benchmarks and lower power requirements I knew that it was simply the best engineered card and it dominated sales for years. NVidia couldn't touch the Radeons for awhile. Later it was NVidia's turn to create a better engineered product. This is the mark I look for when I need a new card, it's how I know it's time to buy early instead of waiting for prices to drop.
I'll switch brands when it's time to switch, and this is the kind of signal I look for to know when it's time to do so.
This may come as a shocker, but people do buy what they perceive to be the better product. Regardless of a companies ethics. Its happened with Intel on a massive scale over last decade when they cornered 90% of the CPU market. Did not see many folks pulling the ethics argument over that.So in relation to the topic, what you are saying is you support anti-competitive practices and companies.
This may come as a shocker, but people do buy what they perceive to be the better product. Regardless of a companies ethics. Its happened with Intel on a massive scale over last decade when they cornered 90% of the CPU market. Did not see many folks pulling the ethics argument over that.
Yes, you could argue that. As it applies to the masses who dont know much about hardware or how to choose it. But enthusiasts who know their stuff go by benchmarks and overall performance. Those folks overwhelmingly went Intel as they are now been going Nvidia for quite some time. The GPP thing will certainly hurt AMD, but wont make an iota of difference to enthusiasts who gravitate towards the best hardware regardless. I doubt any of them will be swayed by ethics. I believe even Kyle himself said he would recommend Nvidia to those looking for the best. Personally dont like GPP and they way its been pushed onto the AIBs. But unless AMD can make some worthwhile (upper tier) GPUs for me to choose over Nvidia, they wont be getting my business any time soon.Well you could argue that Intel was able to dominate the market due to their previous illegal actions vs the competition. The 2-3 billion in collected fines and awards where simply not harsh enough. Considering they almost put AMD under... and for sure set them back by reducing the amount of R&D money they could use to keep up.
So in relation to the topic, what you are saying is you support anti-competitive practices and companies.
Yes, you could argue that. As it applies to the masses who dont know much about hardware or how to choose it. But enthusiasts who know their stuff go by benchmarks and overall performance. Those folks overwhelmingly went Intel as they are now been going Nvidia for quite some time. The GPP thing will certainly hurt AMD, but wont make an iota of difference to enthusiasts who gravitate towards the best hardware regardless. I doubt any of them will be swayed by ethics. I believe even Kyle himself said he would recommend Nvidia to those looking for the best. Personally dont like GPP and they way its been pushed onto the AIBs. But unless AMD can make some worthwhile (upper tier) GPUs for me to choose over Nvidia, they wont be getting my business any time soon.
Yes, you could argue that. As it applies to the masses who dont know much about hardware or how to choose it. But enthusiasts who know their stuff go by benchmarks and overall performance. Those folks overwhelmingly went Intel as they are now been going Nvidia for quite some time. The GPP thing will certainly hurt AMD, but wont make an iota of difference to enthusiasts who gravitate towards the best hardware regardless. I doubt any of them will be swayed by ethics. I believe even Kyle himself said he would recommend Nvidia to those looking for the best. Personally dont like GPP and they way its been pushed onto the AIBs. But unless AMD can make some worthwhile (upper tier) GPUs for me to choose over Nvidia, they wont be getting my business any time soon.
This. ^
AMD fans are gonna buy the AMD GPU whether or not Asus puts Strix on it or not. It could be labeled "Asus Dog Turd" and the AMD fans would be F5 F5 F5 until they wore the keys out. I don't like that Nvidia appears to be trying to monopolize the brand names, but it's also like griping that there's not a Ford Camaro as well as a Chevy Camaro - the AIBs should develop different names for the different GPU manufacturers' lines.
Nvidia having the better product isn't what this is about, Nvidia is being anti-competitive and trying to grow a monopoly, which is never a good thing for consumers, including hardware enthusiasts.