Feral Interactive: What are your thoughts?

Brian_B said:

I don't know if the dev/publisher team are necessarily entirely to blame.

Gaming on Linux has come a long way in a short time. No disputing that. But it still has a long way to go.

I was very excited about SteamOS - not because it was Yet-Another-Linux-Distro, but because it could finally be ~a distro~ that publishers could more or less standardize around. And that Valve may have the weight and momentum to get GPU manufacturers to release timely and well performing driver updates. And Valve is a large enough company that they could have thrown some resources behind a lot of the usability issues that have kept Linux from becoming mainstream. But that seems to have died off.

That hasn't happened. Linux isn't nearly as fragmented as it once was, but it's still fragmented. And that has made it very difficult for it to gain traction. It's moving forward, but I don't think Feral Interactive is entirely to blame for the slow pace because Linux the platform still has a lot of issues.

Click to expand...

SteamOS is a Debian based distro, provided you stick to something debian based than technically speaking you're using the distro developers standardize around. Having said that, people running distro's other than Debian based distro's don't seem to be experiencing much in the way of issues?

I think another valid point worth mentioning is that SteamOS is not counted towards Linux statistics on Steam, so where is everyone getting the foresight from that SteamOS is a failure? Is it due to Steam Machine sales? We all know that Linux users prefer to build their own systems and install the OS of their choosing, which could very well be SteamOS, so I don't see how slow Steam Machine sales is in any way surprising or indicative of SteamOS as a failure?

SteamOS = Not tied specifically to Steam Machine.

heatlesssun said:

LOL! Just so much vitriol from someone whose tried something under Linux that you haven't. I'm not expecting anything of you or anyone else. It's just funny to hear you preach about learning and experimenting and you just get nasty about it when people actually do with Linux.



And I never argued anything about that.



For a lot of folks it's got nothing to do about letting Windows go. If Windows is a bad as you say then a superior replacement should be able to support everything that Windows supports and more.



And if desktop Linux provided the same advantages to all PC gamers many more would be using Linux.



And what makes you important to anyone here? LOL! This is silly nonsense in an anonymous forum.

Click to expand...

We've been over these ridiculous points many, many times before. Begin comprehending valid points of view where they conflict with your own opinion as I'm sick of every thread degrading into a slagging match as everyone goes around in circles repeating points of view that we've been over before due to the fact that you refuse to listen. If Linux didn't do everything I require under a Windows PC then obviously I wouldn't use Linux, as stated, I use Linux. Once again an incorrect assumption that Linux is a barren wasteland.

BulletDust said:

SteamOS is a Debian based distro, provided you stick to something debian based than technically speaking you're using the distro developers standardize around. Having said that, people running distro's other than Debian based distro's don't seem to be experiencing much in the way of issues?

I think another valid point worth mentioning is that SteamOS is not counted towards Linux statistics on Steam, so where is everyone getting the foresight from that SteamOS is a failure? Is it due to Steam Machine sales? We all know that Linux users prefer to build their own systems and install the OS of their choosing, which could very well be SteamOS, so I don't see how slow Steam Machine sales is in any way surprising or indicative of SteamOS as a failure?

SteamOS = Not tied specifically to Steam Machine.

Click to expand...

No issues at all... SteamOS is using a Ubuntu Debian base. Steam installs zero issues and perhaps runs faster under Arch... its rock solid in Suse. I understand the solus kids are having no issues at all Fedora is steam friendly. Gentoo no issues. Steam just works no matter what distro you have. The only thing that may trip some people up on some distros is ensuring you install 32 bit GPU drivers as the steam client is 32bit. Someone was also saying they have to change a few settings for one publishers games... but those types of things are pretty rare. With all the distro testing "hopping really" I do I have no issues copying game data over or mounting my main /home and after installing steam just playing my games.

Perhaps there are issues with the odd real niche distro, although I haven't really seen them. Although I imagine if your running a super niche distro like Tails or Kali your not to worried about about gaming... although having said that pretty sure Steam works on both of those and plenty of other niche distros.

BulletDust said:

SteamOS is a Debian based distro, provided you stick to something debian based than technically speaking you're using the distro developers standardize around. Having said that, people running distro's other than Debian based distro's don't seem to be experiencing much in the way of issues?

I think another valid point worth mentioning is that SteamOS is not counted towards Linux statistics on Steam, so where is everyone getting the foresight from that SteamOS is a failure? Is it due to Steam Machine sales? We all know that Linux users prefer to build their own systems and install the OS of their choosing, which could very well be SteamOS, so I don't see how slow Steam Machine sales is in any way surprising or indicative of SteamOS as a failure?

SteamOS = Not tied specifically to Steam Machine.

Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with Steam Machines.

When's the last time Valve announced anything about SteamOS, or issued a major update? Brewmaster was announced early 2015, and it's still the most current release.

Brian_B said:

It has nothing to do with Steam Machines.

When's the last time Valve announced anything about SteamOS, or issued a major update? Brewmaster was announced early 2015, and it's still the most current release.

Click to expand...

The last SteamOS update was 16 days ago.

Brian_B said:

It has nothing to do with Steam Machines.

When's the last time Valve announced anything about SteamOS, or issued a major update? Brewmaster was announced early 2015, and it's still the most current release.

Click to expand...

It is based on the current stable Debian. Which until a week ago was "jessie". I would expect sometime in the next few months they will update steamos with the debian "stretch" stable core. "stretch" launched on the 17th. Being the type of product steamos is it runs on a stable LTS linux core, it shouldn't be shocking they aren't basing it on beta/rolling versions of debian. lol

SteamOS gets security and GPU updates regularly.

The point being that Valve has more or less abandoned it, and SteamOS is all but dead. If it weren't for underlaying Debian updates, I don't think it would have got anything at all.

Great that it's still getting security updates. So is Windows 7.


If SteamOS where an important part of Linux gaming (and I think it should be, it's a great idea), then how come it takes pages and pages until it does get mentioned here? Where's the last press release for it from Valve?

I see plenty of news related to Windows. Plenty of it for OS X and Linux. Tons of it about VR, including in this thread about Linux gaming. I hear more about SteamLink and Steam Controller than I do SteamOS. No one mentioned it until I brought up the fact that I thought it was a great idea but it's dead - that's how relevant it is to Linux gaming right now.

All four of you running it that want to defend Linux gaming - I applaud you, but that isn't the same thing as defending Valve and how they have pretty much just tossed SteamOS aside for shinier projects.

Brian_B said:

The point being that Valve has more or less abandoned it, and SteamOS is all but dead. If it weren't for underlaying Debian updates, I don't think it would have got anything at all.

Great that it's still getting security updates. So is Windows 7.


If SteamOS where an important part of Linux gaming (and I think it should be, it's a great idea), then how come it takes pages and pages until it does get mentioned here? Where's the last press release for it from Valve?

I see plenty of news related to Windows. Plenty of it for OS X and Linux. Tons of it about VR, including in this thread about Linux gaming. I hear more about SteamLink and Steam Controller than I do SteamOS. No one mentioned it until I brought up the fact that I thought it was a great idea but it's dead - that's how relevant it is to Linux gaming right now.

All four of you running it that want to defend Linux gaming - I applaud you, but that isn't the same thing as defending Valve and how they have pretty much just tossed SteamOS aside for shinier projects.

Click to expand...

I see no evidence that Valve have tossed anything aside? What else can they do? I saw news only days ago that valve were progressing well with AMD drivers under SteamOS and therefore Linux.

People are of the assumption that Linux is Valve's priority, it is not. Valve are a software distribution platform and it makes sense for them to have as many eggs in their basket as they can - So if Microsoft ever decide to lock everything down to a Windows store, Valve still function. As a Windows user that doesn't keep track of Linux news, it's easy to assume that Valve aren't doing enough, the reality is that there isn't much more they can do in relation to Linux and growth is ongoing.

SteamOS promotes Linux gaming development and I use Linux, I appreciate what SteamOS and therefore Valve are doing for the Linux community and never have I had so many great titles to choose from, not to mention awesome Nvidia drivers on par with their Windows counterparts.

Isn't the Linux subforum full of Valve has done X or Y for gaming stuff. What do you assume that means. lol

SteamOS isn't intended to be a Ubuntu sized debian distro. It is a target system for developers to aim at. One of the biggest complaints Valve heard years back when they said to game developers... "how about we put out a Linux client and you guys support it". Was sure that's great and all but how do we test (never mind support) our software for Linux when there are 8-9 Major distro bases and 100s of distros spun off each one. So Valve said here we'll pick one, Debian is the solid old man distro we can get behind... as its the same base system used by the Linux OEMs, and Ubuntu and its forks account for the majority of the install base.

Linux in general got a shot in the arm for gaming when Valve made that decision for developers. Now a few years later (and it has only really been a couple years) developers aim at Ubuntu / Debian. It has also given all the other distros a path to properly support Linux gaming.... when steam first launched on Linux it was iffy on non Debian distros. Now a few years later and all the major (and almost all the minor) distros are fully setup to install Steam and have games just work. Its not just developers that now have a gaming target.

SteamOS is hardly abandoned... and frankly even if it where. It hardly matters. You could argue Valve achieved exactly what they set out to do... and created a "standard" set of Linux gaming Libs. Regardless of what you run now Ubuntu/Suse/Arch/Fedora/Solus/Gentoo/Slack... they all include the Libs targeted by developers. Cause Valve picked a standard for Linux gaming. (if you look through steams offerings these days you see Sys specs listed as SteamOS/Ubuntu 16.04... Steam made that happen, else wise Linux gaming would be pretty much what it was 6 years ago.

Brian_B said:

It has nothing to do with Steam Machines.

When's the last time Valve announced anything about SteamOS, or issued a major update? Brewmaster was announced early 2015, and it's still the most current release.

Click to expand...

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...eta-with-a-newer-kernel-and-updated-mesa.9848

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...dgpu-pro-in-favour-of-mesa-has-left-beta.9789

Unles you don't consider a newer kernel, new beta version, bug fixes, new GPU drivers as anything good then sure I guess they've done nothing at all. This doesn't even go into the work they have done on AMD's open source drivers and OpenVR.

From the perspective of a Windows user it appears that most believe Linux gaming to be dead, which stands to reason as they obviously have about as much of a desire to keep up with Linux news as I do keeping up with Windows news. However from the perspective of a Linux user keeping up with Linux gaming news, gaming under Linux has never been more alive or vibrant - Personally I'm really enjoying gaming under an OS I believe to be superior and I know a number of others are also. Never before have I seen such an awareness of Linux, nothing like the situation twenty years ago.

Gamers in places like this generally keep up with gaming news across a wide variety of platforms. Linux gaming isn't dead, all you have to do is look at the games releases on Steam which many keep track of to see Linux versions coming out on a regular basis. However, the amount of content is still pretty thin compared to Windows and that's very obvious just by looking at the Steam storefront. As for awareness of desktop Linux, outside of tech circles, I wouldn't call it a household name today anymore than 20 years ago. When it comes to gaming on the big screen side there's consoles and the PC. Sure there's a debates of PS vs Xbox vs whatever else it out there like the Switch. But the PC as a platform is really Windows. When a major title comes out its listed for PS or Xbox or PC and PC almost never means Linux, especially at launch.

So sure, there's been growth in Linux gaming. Outside of hardcore Linux folks or people with a gripe with Microsoft, I don't think there's been any large scale awareness or demand for Linux gaming. But no, Linux gaming isn't dead and it's not going away. But it will be niche market with limited content available for the foreseeable future. But sure it's possible that could change with a LOT more folks gaming under Linux. Never said it wasn't possible. But there'd need to be a reason for gamers related to games, not just the same old criticisms of Windows. There needs to be something in it for gamers in general, not just Linux fans.