Vega countdown has appeared

NeoNemesis said:
The two examples I provided (Pepsi vs Coke & Mac vs PC) are evidence to the contrary. The comparison can be implied or explicit.

In the case of AMD, they are suggesting that they are bringing VR at a lower price than their competition.

In the case of Apple vs PC, Apple claimed it was bringing a cooler product.

In the case of Pepsi vs Coke, Pepsi claimed that it was a younger and cooler alternative.

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Did you view that entire video?

Look at 4:02, policy statement from the FTC.

I suggest you look up what is subjective adverting vs objective adverting and then try to fit that in with comparative adverting, then you will understand what the differences are.

In the case of AMD, bringing VR to the masses, was BS, Polaris sucks at VR comparing to the 1060, have you been looking at the [H] Vr reviews for the past year?

It was hype and it backfired.

Apple vs. PC, Apple had better build quality then any other pc on the market, and the looks to boot, those two facts are subject and that is subjective marketing, but it was pretty much undeniable.

Pepsi is also a subjective adverting as well, yeah kids tend to go to pepsi because its sweeter and there is data backing that up too. or was, just looking that up, looks like its changed now as Soda has really dropped in sales.
 
NeoNemesis said:
So the root of the issue is that you're pissed off because someone insulted the brand that you like. Okay. Got it.
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So you can't counter me so you go down that road? I suggest you watch this



People that post like you just did, are the ones that are the problem.

This goes for anyone that wants to go down the fanboy road, nV or AMD, I will post this video up ever time I see a post that goes down the dark path.
 
Neonemesis

Just FYI to get back in topic

http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-objective-and-subjective/

1.Objective and subjective statements are used by speakers to get their points across.
2.Objective statements are facts that can be verified by third parties while subjective statements may or may not be entirely true as they are colored by the opinions of the speaker.
3.Objective statements are most commonly found in the hard sciences, whereas subjective statements are generally used to describe the arts.
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What did AMD do here? They made a generality that leads to claims in peoples minds but since there is nothing about Volta to this point, its not even subjective, its made up.

What did Apple do? They made claims that are subjective but people can see that because both products are out

What did Pepsi do? They made claims that are subjective, but during blind taste tests Pepsi did win out.

Do you see the difference from your examples vs AMD's? AMD made a BS statement with nothing to back it up subjective or objective, its just hot air. And that is just bad marketing because it just makes people like you and others that blew up Polaris, r600, the 390 series, and all the AMD CPU's in the last decade go crazy.
 
Why learn from the past PR mistakes when you can repeat them.
AMD-Vega-architecture-1000x467.jpg
 
Drawmonster said:
Check my sig. I do tons of research before I build computers. And I've built at least 6 top end gaming rigs in the last 10 years. Not including several HPTC's, servers, and lower end builds for friend and families. There hasn't been a single time in the past decade where said research has given me any reason to even consider AMD. There may be niche builds where AMD offers something worthy, but not in the gaming arena or anything I've researched. I wish they would come out with some good gaming hardware. Nvidia has been on top for too long and that's not good for anybody.

And yeah, I now realize this is the AMD forum, so I know where this is going to go. I should have paid closer to attention when I found this thread from New Posts.
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I say you did short term research with no regard to your money if your such a fanboy of Nvidia's over price products .. because if you did do research as you say you did.. then you would know that the HD7970 or R9-290X was the best card money could buy long term and quick profit to miners needing them.. bought a R9-290 at release and resold with over $200 profit to miners.. used profit to buy an R9-280 and my little girl is using it to play BF 1 ... rest of the money bought me a R9-290X New Edition .. so one card became two.
 
Shintai said:
The same one Polaris got its from I guess. And then using the packed math on top? :)
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Probably packed fp16 + comparison to Tahiti whatever is most convenient I guess

Wasn't Polaris compared to a 270x or something
 
Ieldra said:
Probably packed fp16 + comparison to Tahiti whatever is most convenient I guess

Wasn't Polaris compared to a 270x or something
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Yeah for perf/watt, it was compared to the 280x and 390x at some point too. 2.0 perf/watt over that 390x 2.5x over the 280x, and 2.8x over the 270x if I remember correctly.
 
razor1 said:
So you can't counter me so you go down that road? I suggest you watch this



People that post like you just did, are the ones that are the problem.

This goes for anyone that wants to go down the fanboy road, nV or AMD, I will post this video up ever time I see a post that goes down the dark path.
Click to expand...


Oh the irony. Here, watch this one while you are at it... ;)

 
Peppercorn said:
Oh the irony. Here, watch this one while you are at it... ;)

Click to expand...



Great so you think I'm creating a narrative in the 5 minutes or so responding. I must be a collective genius even better then an entire special interest group, thank you for the complement btw. I have personal experience in this type of marketing, and its just bad fuckin marketing. Ad hominem attacks at its best.


Neither of you guys can talk about the topic at hand.......

Yep time to report and get back to the topic
 
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it was taken from AMD's vega site before it was taken down now its a 403, so I'm thinking it about Vega ;)

Most of the word cloud fits it too, and some new info like rapid packed math and draw stream binning.
 
Honestly hope that AMD turns out to be a big winner and Vega releases relatively soon. While neither company is saintly, I generally prefer AMD to NV thanks to better ethics of openness (ie Nvidia seems to relish creating as many proprietary elements as possible from PhysX to GSync and GameWorks etc) and reasonable pricing , but the lack of answer on the higher end has been difficult. When I bought my AMD 290X (and my 6970 and 4870X2 before that) AMD's high end card was priced significantly below, yet was close/equal in performance to Nvidia's high end cards. This is not to say I think they did the wrong thing with Polaris - I think its great they targeted the solid mid-tier at the time and everyone to whom I've suggested an RX 480 or 470 has been very happy and these cards growing in performance with greater DX12 / Vulkan adoption is a nice bonus. 2016 was a "gap year" I figure with regards to the high end anyway, with HBM2 not yet ready for prime time, but it puts even more importance on the 2017 cards, especially on the high end like AMD Vega and NV 1080Ti (or similar?) to solidify 4K gaming at the single card level.

Much depends on Vega, from its performance to its release frame. Over the holiday I received a 1070 as a gift and while I'm willing to give NV a chance and I'm sure its a good card and a nice upgrade, I really wanted to see as much Vega info as possible before the return window closes at the end of January. Should Vega look to be exciting the way that Ryzen is poised to be AND they plan to bring it to market swiftly (ie Q1) I'll definitely exchange the 1070. I can only hope that they aren't hyping up this so much only to languish with a "last days of Q2, still technically first half see we kept our promise...oh and the quantity is low, demand is high, and prices skyrocket" launch when it finally arrives. They really can't afford to stumble at this point I don't think. If Nvidia's new announcement (maybe at CES as well) proves they're delivering their own high end HBM2 card, AMD has to be some combination of sooner, faster (or at least reasonably close performance) and cheaper to pick up a considerable amount of marketshare. The greater a threat AMD's products provide, the better for us as its the only chance we have to bring down skyrocketing prices and proprietary practices by Nvidia (and Intel, but that's more of a CPU side than a GPU side kinda thing). After watching Nvidia pretty much absorb the entire mid-or-higher end of the marketplace without contest the past two generations, I can only hope AMD has readied Vega to compete. We sorely need it.
 
Gah, what a terrible thread. All I see is crapping on AMD and AMD fans trying to defend it. Couldn't get a good discussion about AMD on this forum if you tried. Can't you moderators at least try and keep one civilized thread? Fuck this...
 
So either AMD is going to over-market this thing like all of their past products or it's coming out mid-2017 and will compete with volta (Titan X+).
Wasn't really sure what to expect but that 'world cloud' has me rolling my eyes.
 
Bowman15 said:
Gah, what a terrible thread. All I see is crapping on AMD and AMD fans trying to defend it. Couldn't get a good discussion about AMD on this forum if you tried. Can't you moderators at least try and keep one civilized thread? Fuck this...
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What there is to discuss, though? Some random countdown? At least we have the word cloud now, and the claim of 8gb of hbm per stack has me intrigued.
 
Drawmonster said:
Check my sig. I do tons of research before I build computers. And I've built at least 6 top end gaming rigs in the last 10 years. Not including several HPTC's, servers, and lower end builds for friend and families. There hasn't been a single time in the past decade where said research has given me any reason to even consider AMD. There may be niche builds where AMD offers something worthy, but not in the gaming arena or anything I've researched. I wish they would come out with some good gaming hardware. Nvidia has been on top for too long and that's not good for anybody.

And yeah, I now realize this is the AMD forum, so I know where this is going to go. I should have paid closer to attention when I found this thread from New Posts.
Click to expand...

You sound uninformed, if you click on the articles at the homepage you can read about product reviews and learn more about the computer GPU.
 
Xaeos said:
Honestly hope that AMD turns out to be a big winner and Vega releases relatively soon. While neither company is saintly, I generally prefer AMD to NV thanks to better ethics of openness (ie Nvidia seems to relish creating as many proprietary elements as possible from PhysX to GSync and GameWorks etc) and reasonable pricing , but the lack of answer on the higher end has been difficult. When I bought my AMD 290X (and my 6970 and 4870X2 before that) AMD's high end card was priced significantly below, yet was close/equal in performance to Nvidia's high end cards. This is not to say I think they did the wrong thing with Polaris - I think its great they targeted the solid mid-tier at the time and everyone to whom I've suggested an RX 480 or 470 has been very happy and these cards growing in performance with greater DX12 / Vulkan adoption is a nice bonus. 2016 was a "gap year" I figure with regards to the high end anyway, with HBM2 not yet ready for prime time, but it puts even more importance on the 2017 cards, especially on the high end like AMD Vega and NV 1080Ti (or similar?) to solidify 4K gaming at the single card level.
Click to expand...

That is what any company does when they can compete head on with products, they improve their "image", but at the end of the day the only things that matter are the products and if they can be used better then the competition.

Much depends on Vega, from its performance to its release frame. Over the holiday I received a 1070 as a gift and while I'm willing to give NV a chance and I'm sure its a good card and a nice upgrade, I really wanted to see as much Vega info as possible before the return window closes at the end of January. Should Vega look to be exciting the way that Ryzen is poised to be AND they plan to bring it to market swiftly (ie Q1) I'll definitely exchange the 1070. I can only hope that they aren't hyping up this so much only to languish with a "last days of Q2, still technically first half see we kept our promise...oh and the quantity is low, demand is high, and prices skyrocket" launch when it finally arrives. They really can't afford to stumble at this point I don't think. If Nvidia's new announcement (maybe at CES as well) proves they're delivering their own high end HBM2 card, AMD has to be some combination of sooner, faster (or at least reasonably close performance) and cheaper to pick up a considerable amount of marketshare. The greater a threat AMD's products provide, the better for us as its the only chance we have to bring down skyrocketing prices and proprietary practices by Nvidia (and Intel, but that's more of a CPU side than a GPU side kinda thing). After watching Nvidia pretty much absorb the entire mid-or-higher end of the marketplace without contest the past two generations, I can only hope AMD has readied Vega to compete. We sorely need it.
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At this point if AMD Vega doesn't have a decent performance advantage and equal power envelope with pricing being lower or equal, there isn't much they can do, all because of the delay of release. Ryzen "looks" exciting from what AMD has shown, all "leaked" benchmarks show its just better than what they had not as good as Intel comparative core counts. Hopefully the first is what it is. Vega, on the other hand, the turn around times in GPU market is faster, 1.5 years not 5 years like in CPU's, so R&D cuts to GPU is more substantial than CPU as CPU R&D can be aggregated to one design vs what Intel has multiple designs at the same time.

1080ti will probably not come with HBM2, I don't see the need for nV to go to HBM2, cause they are not bandwidth limited on their GPU's and there are faster GDDR5x's now that weren't available in quantity before.

Hypothetically lets say AMD Vega can compete with the 1080ti, and Titan Pascal, for them to price it lower lets say at 650 bucks, they will cut their margins considerably because of HBM2, the interposer costs, then forces nV to respond but since they don't use those expensive parts, they have the flexibility to maintain margins, at least higher than AMD, or undercut them, since we are looking at a smaller market here, and cut down their current performance card prices and put a hurt lock on AMD's performance cards (if their performance cards use HBM2, which looks like they might because their cards uses more bandwidth, at least with Polaris).

Coming out this much later in the game hurts AMD more ways than just product launches, because people have already made their purchases, so for people to upgrade again to Vega, it has to be better in pretty much everything. The same thing happened with Fiji. Same thing happened with the gtx 680, nV was able to slow down the bleeding marketshare, but were able to reverse it till the lower end 6xx series were released, at the 7xxx series peak AMD had 40% marketshare just before the rest of the 6xx line came out.
 
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I've said it before and I'll say it again (probably several times until it changes): AMD has terrible marketing. Whether it's asshats like Roy Taylor running the PR game or just stupid marketing campaigns in general. BetterRed was a dumb dumb dumb campaign. A marketing slogan should be catchy, something that sticks in your mind and creates a positive image of the company. BetterRed is a dumb slogan, it only makes AMD look tacky and makes them look like they're trying too hard to be "edgy". Red Revolution is a little better, but it still boarders too much on trying too hard. Look at some of the most successful ad campaigns of all time, none of them pull the kind of crap AMD does. Pepsi and Apple poke at their competition, but they use released products and verifiable information. Multiple studies have been done to look into the Pepsi Challenge over the years and blind taste test results do tend to favor Pepsi. Ad campaigns like what AMD has tried recently never do as well as companies want. For as fun as a war between companies can be, it gives the aggressor a bad image. It makes the company being directly attacked look better in comparison, especially when they don't fire back with the same insults. When AMD tried to use the 970 memory scandal to their advantage they were on to something, but they went too far. They devolved into direct attacks and insults instead of focusing solely on facts and using that as promotion. Since it was Taylor involved in doing that stuff of course it did.

By the time Vega launches it will be nearly two years since AMD released a GPU in the high-end market. If it doesn't launch until Computex like some people are suspecting that will put it just a few weeks shy of two years since the Fury X launch. It also means that they will have given Nvidia an entire year of no viable competition in the high-end market and could even potentially launch months after the 1080ti. They need to step up their marketing game and stop pulling childish crap. Play the underdog card, play the open source card, stick to the facts and don't bullshit people. If Vega can match or beat the 1080, use that. Don't directly attack Nvidia with random BS, show the facts and play it up. If Vega is cheaper than Nvidia's current line up with competitive performance, play that up. Talk about long term support, etc. Using childish marketing tactics doesn't get factual information out there, it just feeds the fanboys. AMD doesn't need to feed their fanboys, they need to win over people coming into PC building for the first time as well as the people that aren't beholden to one brand or another. Marketing to the fanboys is a pointless endeavor. The fanboys are going to buy it regardless and the fanboys are not a big enough market to make a significant impact on their marketshare.
 
razor1 said:
Nah not like this, look back when AMD had videos and talking shit about others products, and doing all those kinds of stuff, they never had good products.

Funny thing is no one knows what volta is, but they didn't put pascal up there? What does that mean, Pascal is still going to trump them? Or are they trying to distancing themselves from Pascal, but by using Volta, that means they are supremely confident of their product to take out Volta, that isn't even remotely realistic.

Just watch the people hype this thing to be a Volta killer just because of this stupid marketing campaign.... over hype and kill Vega's launch.
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AMD knows nothing about Volta... it's impossible that they do...

...but you clearly know everything about Vega and how poorly it compares...

Do you care to share the Vega numbers ?
 
Ronin said:
AMD knows nothing about Volta... it's impossible that they do...

...but you clearly know everything about Vega and how poorly it compares...

Do you care to share the Vega numbers ?
Click to expand...

I never stated anything about Vega being poor, I just don't expect it to be a Pascal killer, let alone Volta......
 
Ieldra said:
How does one kill that which has no announced specs ?
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When has that stopped people from hyping stuff up to insane levels? Remember the 480 hypefest? People hyping the thing to be able to match Nvidia's high end cards and be a Fury X replacement. Despite there being no solid specs on the 480 at the time, just rumors of it releasing at a cheap price.
 
Ieldra said:
How does one kill that which has no announced specs ?
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Yep my point exactly, there is nothing about Vega outside of it showing up in BF1 in a GPU limited scenario which looked to be slower than the competing system a 1080, but that in itself is a guess, then you have this marketing campaign starting which its now going up against Volta?

Its just a mismatch of crap.
 
Damn. All I've ever wanted was a gpu which used draw stream binning rasterizers. Will I ever find one? ;)
 
razor1 said:
Yep time to report and get back to the topic
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You reported yourself ?
razor1 said:
Yep my point exactly, there is nothing about Vega outside of it showing up in BF1 in a GPU limited scenario which looked to be slower than the competing system a 1080
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So you wanted a CPU limited scenario to show of a GPU ? You are trolling because you suddenly can compare things which were not shown and claim that it looked slower then a 1080. good job ..
 
Pieter3dnow said:
You reported yourself ?


So you wanted a CPU limited scenario to show of a GPU ? You are trolling because you suddenly can compare things which were not shown and claim that it looked slower then a 1080. good job ..
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It was GPU limited, at 4k BF1 is even GPU limited on Titan pascal man.

Sorry, that just doesn't fly with me when you don't have you facts straight.

http://www.techspot.com/review/1267-battlefield-1-benchmarks/page3.html

Do you see frame rates changing going from 1440 to 4k on the Titan Pascal, yeah that means what? GPU limited at 4k, since there is a GPU limitation on 1440 as well.

I stated it looked slower because a person that was there stated it was by the frame rate meters, but I also stated that too can't be taken for its word,

Should I quote myself on that, cause its right after what you apparently wanted to take the full context out of my statement lol. Selective reading is not a good way to make a point nor is making crap up about BF1 not being GPU limited at 4k.
 
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euskalzabe said:
To all who are criticizing AMD for the futility of having a countdown to the Vega announcement (trash talk advertising aside)... I would like to simply point out that Nvidia is currently doing the exact same thing and yet I don't see anyone complaining about that.

https://www.nvidia.com/page/home.html

#bias
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The nV countdown never mentioned anything about AMD products did they?

NO ONE is talking about the count down, if they left it at that great, they didn't though.

Negative marketing rarely works, and only works in specific sales to sales comparison where and consumer is expected to give a response. And that response must be accurate to the message being delivered, If at any point it isn't to even a small degree, it fails and backfires.
 
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euskalzabe said:
To all who are criticizing AMD for the futility of having a countdown to the Vega announcement (trash talk advertising aside)... I would like to simply point out that Nvidia is currently doing the exact same thing and yet I don't see anyone complaining about that.

https://www.nvidia.com/page/home.html

#bias
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Countdowns to announcements are a bit meh in my opinion, but they're effective at building hype and interest. At least when done right. Nvidia's count down is simple, effective, no extra fluff. Just "we're gonna announce a thing when this timer reaches zero". Without the video there is nothing wrong with AMD's countdown, other than that it's a countdown to an announcement and not an actual product release. The video on the other hand is just....Stupid. AMD isn't Kojima, they don't need to ape his confusing nonsense trailers. Plastering "poor Volta" right in the middle of the screen for several seconds is cheeky, but also childish and is going to drive high expectations. AMD doesn't need to push potentially unrealistic expectations on people. They need clear messages, not stupid slogans that do nothing to help their brand.
 
Love this marketing by AMD. Who gives a shit if it hurts the sensibilities of Nv loyalists, AMD doesn't take their marching orders from them (as much as it seems they like to think AMD should).

The word cloud is interesting (which is now revealed at the link BTW), and indeed Vega does appear to be the true 14nm design while Polaris was the pilot card on the new 14nm process. Looks like quite a leap in performance and perf/watt.
 
Peppercorn said:
Love this marketing by AMD. Who gives a shit if it hurts the sensibilities of Nv loyalists, AMD doesn't take their marching orders from them (as much as it seems they like to think AMD should).

The word cloud is interesting (which is now revealed at the link BTW), and indeed Vega does appear to be the true 14nm design while Polaris was the pilot card on the new 14nm process. Looks like quite a leap in performance and perf/watt.
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And do you know what they are comparing to and what numbers they are comparing? Start from that and compare with what we know about AMD insight cards and a good deal of that mystery can be unraveled. And no perf/watt increases seem to be similar to Polaris, if we take Fiji as the base line.
 
euskalzabe said:
To all who are criticizing AMD for the futility of having a countdown to the Vega announcement (trash talk advertising aside)... I would like to simply point out that Nvidia is currently doing the exact same thing and yet I don't see anyone complaining about that.

https://www.nvidia.com/page/home.html

#bias
Click to expand...

Also funny that nVidia's countdown got FP News post and this stays in the videocard section where it belongs...
 
razor1 said:
And do you know what they are comparing to and what numbers they are comparing? Start from that and compare with what we know about AMD insight cards and a good deal of that mystery can be unraveled. And no perf/watt increases seem to be similar to Polaris, if we take Fiji as the base line.
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Sounds like you are making a lot of assumptions there. ;)
 
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