Qrash
Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2014
- Messages
- 995
In the renders of the mATX model the rear panel has only 5 expansion card slots, so I don't see how an ATX board would fit.
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This angle seems to make the original design look more awkward. I'm also not a huge fan of the window personally so I mspainted the window away and I agree with you about the intake-forward design being less unique.
I think at that point it's a little too far from the front - it's just sort of floating out mid-panel by itself:
I threw this concept together pretty quickly, so there are a lot of things that could probably use tweaking. The entire I/O was just copy+pasted from another file as is. I pretty much just want to get some feedback to see if this seems like a direction I should pursue. We have a number of concepts on the table for a ~30L design alone, so I'd like to get an idea of which style(s) people prefer.
I completely tunnelvisioned after seeing that first one and read over the ATX support
Necere, mind sharing more about that design internally ?
I agree this design looks better without the window.I'm also not a huge fan of the window personally so I mspainted the window away and I agree with you about the intake-forward design being less unique.
I didn't mention it, but yes, that's a feature I included in the current concept.I really like the new mATX design, the outside is just so damn clean. Maybe I overread that part, but it looks like it still has support for ATX boards, right?
He's referring to the possibility of limited ATX support as discussed earlier in the thread.In the renders of the mATX model the rear panel has only 5 expansion card slots, so I don't see how an ATX board would fit.
Just to be clear, we're talking about two completely different designs here. Some of your comments lead me to believe you may be confusing them.Hi necrere my opinions on the current design
Again, on the mATX concept this can be essentially "free," since the bottom of the board would sit behind the PSU, and the case is still limited to 5 slots.1. No need for ATX Mobo support i don't find it necessary or adding any value
I'll keep that in mind.2. An mATX board will likely support 4 front USBs
Probably doesn't make as much sense with either of these designs.3. I liked the I/O aligned with the side intake more.
Both of these concepts provide for a rear 120mm exhaust fan, which probably isn't going to increase the overall volume of airflow much (due to the already substantial airflow provided by the front fans), but it will help to shape the airflow and quickly remove the hot exhaust coming off the GPUs/CPU. I'm not sure what else you had in mind - top fans? Side fans?4. Is front fans and front fans alone enough to cool 2 high end GPUs? I'd also like to see how a rad fits.
On the ATX concept, the slot for the disc is directly below the front I/O. The mATX concept does not support an ODD.5. Seems there's space for a slim ODD but no slit for inserting the actual disk
Sure.6. If one doesn't use the HDD bay (SSDs behind mobo instead?) can you put a fan there,e.g,a Fury X cooler?
Well, a short-depth case would necessitate doing away with a shrouded front intake altogether, and going with a fully-perforated front like the ATX concept. That's what accounts for most of the depth difference between the two. But yeah, I'd consider it.Would you consider a short-depth approach to the m-ATX design? That would suit my taste more, but that's just me? Or would that affect the looks of the intake (too close to the front)? But then again, I would just have the window the size of the m-ATX mobo, so intake could be "pushed" back if you went for a short-depth approach.
Well, a short-depth case would necessitate doing away with a shrouded front intake altogether, and going with a fully-perforated front like the ATX concept. That's what accounts for most of the depth difference between the two. But yeah, I'd consider it.
I was thinking a bottom fan would maintain the clean look such that,you could have a 120mm rad at the bottom and another at the rear and finally the 280mm at the front (and the PSU I assume is in taking from bottom and exhausting on rear effectively a closed circuit not affecting the GPUs) This would mean the drive cage is removable though am I right? Anyway that makes for plenty of cooling and also good noise dampening.To address your comments:
Again, on the mATX concept this can be essentially "free," since the bottom of the board would sit behind the PSU, and the case is still limited to 5 slots.
I'll keep that in mind.
Probably doesn't make as much sense with either of these designs.
Both of these concepts provide for a rear 120mm exhaust fan, which probably isn't going to increase the overall volume of airflow much (due to the already substantial airflow provided by the front fans), but it will help to shape the airflow and quickly remove the hot exhaust coming off the GPUs/CPU. I'm not sure what else you had in mind - top fans? Side fans?
The mATX concept has enough room in front for a 280mm rad with reference length GPUs, while the short-depth ATX concept is more geared towards air cooling only, or watercooling with shorter cards. Either could also take a 120mm rad on the rear mount.
On the ATX concept, the slot for the disc is directly below the front I/O. The mATX concept does not support an ODD.
Sure.
I don't think I've ever said I was completely against behind the motherboard cable management. The issue is that it increases width, which is my least favorite dimensions to add to. What I've been leaning towards is a more modest 10-12mm behind the motherboard for thinner cables and possibly SSDs, with the bulkier cables run ahead of the motherboard and next to the PSU, where there's some natural space that can be utilized.Necere, maybee this has been mentioned already, but what is the reason that you are scrapping cable management features behind MB? I think that is a deal breaker for many even if the gain might be a liter or two.
So I did initially misinterpret your original question: I thought you meant a rad on the lower front fan, occupying some of the space the HDDs are at, but I understand now that you mean a fan/rad on the bottom facing up. I've thought about it, but I personally prefer keeping the the bottom of the case solid, with the only intake vents up front. This simplifies maintenance, since you only need one big dust filter that's easily accessible from the front. Bottom filters, especially easily removable ones, are harder to access, as well as being harder to implement design-wise, and are going to suck up more dust and have worse airflow. Moreover, bottom vents would require additional ground clearance for adequate airflow. The current designs incorporate a gap between the case floor and the PSU, so it's a wash in terms of overall volume, and I'd just as soon have a bit more usable space inside the case.I was thinking a bottom fan would maintain the clean look such that,you could have a 120mm rad at the bottom and another at the rear and finally the 280mm at the front (and the PSU I assume is in taking from bottom and exhausting on rear effectively a closed circuit not affecting the GPUs)
Of course. I can't think of a good reason to ever make a non-removable drive cage.This would mean the drive cage is removable though am I right?
Is the concern here dust entering through the rear vents when the PC is off? Because obviously when the fans are running, dust will get blown out the back, so it doesn't make much sense to filter it - it would just needlessly restrict airflow. Keep in mind there won't just be vents for the rear fan, but for other parts of the back panel as well (next to the PCIe slots, back of motherboard, etc). It would be awkward to filter everything.Will the rear fan be filtered?Every manufacturer ever seems to forget that fan filter.
Well, the latest mATX concept has the front I/O on the top panel, which isn't part of the front so it's not an issue.And then I guess there's the I/O,whether its attached to the detachable front fascia,that creates the problem of yanking off the front panel and having the I/O cables cling on, such that you have to unplug them from the motherboard every time you open the front.
Nevertheless, a lot of people ask for them. Obviously we'd make a windowed side panel an option, rather than standard.Windows are overated,foam pad the side and top panels
I did touch on that in my last post. Nothing is set in stone, though, and I'm open to people's preferences. ATX PSUs tend to have more and longer cables than SFX, which is another consideration not often taken into account when considering the volume differences of the two form factors, so some extra care does need to be taken for cable management here.What is the plan for cable management?
Looks like I forgot to respond to this earlier. It's not a bad idea for a layout, actually. I hadn't really considered orienting the PSU like that, which would make it taller than the FT03, but not by a huge amount. There's still Silverstone's patent though, that potentially complicates pursuing such a design.I would love to see a NCase FT03! Mad a professional illustration what i personally would buy.
Each of these concept designs represents maybe 5% of the total work that goes into a complete case design. A lot of elements depend on what you have available, as well - stuff like the Lian Li toolless clips, their NCT punch library, power button and custom front I/O - all of these would need to be changed in one way or another to make a design feasible for a general shop to make (a company like Protocase, for example). Even then, you'd probably be looking at well over $1000 for manufacturing a one-off, which excludes it from consideration for the vast majority of people. It frankly wouldn't make a lot of sense for me/us (w360 still does the porting to Solidworks) to spend potentially hundreds of hours on a design that is 1.) likely inferior to what we could do with specialized components and tooling, and 2.) hardly anyone would actually be interested in buying anyway.Have you thought about selling the CAD designs for the cases that aren't being produced to allow people to get the case manufacturer themselves?
Looks like I forgot to respond to this earlier. It's not a bad idea for a layout, actually. I hadn't really considered orienting the PSU like that, which would make it taller than the FT03, but not by a huge amount. There's still Silverstone's patent though, that potentially complicates pursuing such a design.
Each of these concept designs represents maybe 5% of the total work that goes into a complete case design. A lot of elements depend on what you have available, as well - stuff like the Lian Li toolless clips, their NCT punch library, power button and custom front I/O - all of these would need to be changed in one way or another to make a design feasible for a general shop to make (a company like Protocase, for example).
What is an NCT punch library? Is that a library of all the shapes a manufacturers punch presses can do?
Yes, dual 140mm. The 180s only work on the ATX concept because of the extra height. It's also short-depth (~355mm) to keep the volume down, but that would limit front rad+long GPU builds. The mATX concept by comparison is 400mm deep, partly due to the baffled front intake.
More renders of the mATX in silver:
The PSU does mount fan-down in this design. As I mentioned a couple posts up, there's a gap between the PSU and the floor of the case to allow for air intake from inside the case. This simplifies ventilation and filtering, since the only intake is at the front.I really like this! This is more Ncase than many of the other designs, and it really stands out compared to any case out there now.
Regards to bottom intake, I think there should be a alternative to mount the psu with fanside down, OR find a way to mount it in the front, like the Cerberus case from Kimera ind.
I really like that layout in regards to how compact it makes the case.
Looks like I forgot to respond to this earlier. It's not a bad idea for a layout, actually. I hadn't really considered orienting the PSU like that, which would make it taller than the FT03, but not by a huge amount. There's still Silverstone's patent though, that potentially complicates pursuing such a design.
I'll chip in here... We have patent for 90 degree rotated layout in Taiwan and China only. The US patent (5243493) for this design was actually filed all the way back in 1992 by the "Industrial Technology Research Institute in Taiwan" so it has already expired.
This means you are free to make any case with the 90 degree rotated motherboard design on your own and would only need to consult with us if you plan on mass producing cases with this design in Taiwan or China.
The PSU does mount fan-down in this design. As I mentioned a couple posts up, there's a gap between the PSU and the floor of the case to allow for air intake from inside the case. This simplifies ventilation and filtering, since the only intake is at the front.
Mounting the PSU at the front completely changes the airflow - you basically need top/bottom vents - and doesn't actually save that much space with an ATX PSU. See the "space saver - front PSU" section in my design post. It makes more sense with SFX, like the KI Cerberus, but not so much with an ATX PSU.
At this point I am leaning towards the latest mATX concept, as shown above.Have you started to settle on a design?
Well, any kind of vent/grille/what have you will reduce airflow by some amount, and in general, baffled or side intakes like in this design will reduce it somewhat more than open front vents. There is a full 25mm between the fans and the front cover though, and 20mm for the slots at either side, so the restriction shouldn't be too great.Hmm, im matx user too. I like the latest design, it's discrete and clean. How's the intake slot thou? I hope it doesnt reduce the overall airflow.
Filters are pretty much mandatory on intakes, IMO, and will be part of whichever design I go with.I like the front design of the 31.8L atx case. Please make a removable fan filter.
There are reasons for the reversed layout - it's not for no reason. In this case, I wanted a bottom-mounted PSU that intakes from the inside. Why bottom-mounted? Even with active fans, there's going to be a temperature gradient inside the case, with warmer air at the top. This way the PSU has access to cooler air. Also, with the fan facing up, PSUs with a fanless mode should in theory keep the fan off longer, since heat is able to escape via natural convection through the top. Having the rear 120mm exhaust fan just above the PSU works well with this arrangement. If we flipped the motherboard right side up and left the PSU at the bottom, it's going to be exposed to more of the hot exhaust from the GPUs, so we'd also likely want to put the PSU at the top, which is a less than ideal place for it.The only couple things I dont want is reversed motherboard and handles.
Silverstone already got the tj08e which is really good and much cheaper. I just cant get over the reversed motherboard since it looks just off especially with window.