24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

flod said:
i think it's pretty obvious that horizontal sharpness drops as pixel clock/horizontal scan rate increases

for 344hz he was running at like 320x240 or lower
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It also will do 344Hz at 448x336 with tighter blanks.
 
My FW900's screen is stuck in a rotated position, about 10 degrees counterclockwise. And it won't move using the rotation adjustment in the OSD. Any idea what could cause this? I haven't seen this problem posted before.

I thought about taking the monitor to a local TV repair shop, thinking that maybe the deflection yoke is "loose", or needs to be rotated for adjustment. Would this be a possible solution? I'd love to ship it to Uncle Vito, but that'd be way too expensive for me.
 
how would this 24" OLED compare to FW900 in terms of image quality??

758921.jpg


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/758921-REG/Sony_BVM_E250_BVM_E250_Trimaster_EL_OLED.html
 
jbltecnicspro said:
I think it has some input lag and the motion clarity may not be as good (or maybe it is?). But yeah - it's a fuckton of money but I'm sure it's a beautiful monitor.
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if you're playing a PC game, like a shooter and your ping to server is 80ms, is TV input lag of <80ms useless then? I mean it'll still be 80ms, right?
 
Klarion said:
if you're playing a PC game, like a shooter and your ping to server is 80ms, is TV input lag of <80ms useless then?
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Not sure what a server has to do with this. Input lag is more a perception thing. My friend's television, for example, has pretty bad input lag. So bad that when I make a mouse input, I can see the delay of the action on the screen. That's usually where input lag comes into play. It affects your ability to react to what's on the screen, irrespective of what's going on with the server connection.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Not sure what a server has to do with this. Input lag is more a perception thing. My friend's television, for example, has pretty bad input lag. So bad that when I make a mouse input, I can see the delay of the action on the screen. That's usually where input lag comes into play. It affects your ability to react to what's on the screen, irrespective of what's going on with the server connection.
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If your ping in an online game is 500ms for example you'll see massive input lag, and you won't be able to play, so what use is there for your 0 input lag CRT? You're always limited by your ping. And since good ping in online games is around 50 ms that means OLED shouldn't have bad input lag since this is what LG OLED tv has:

http://www.displaylag.com/oled-4k-2014-input-lag-results/
 
Klarion said:
If your ping in an online game is 500ms for example you'll see massive input lag, and you won't be able to play, so what use is there for your 0 input lag CRT? You're always limited by your ping. And since good ping in online games is around 50 ms that means OLED shouldn't have bad input lag since this is what LG OLED tv has:

http://www.displaylag.com/oled-4k-2014-input-lag-results/
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There is a difference between input lag, and server lag. For example, let's say you play a FPS game.

Having a bad input lag means, when you move your mouse around, you will have latency between the movement you make, and the movement you see on your monitor. Generally, this is not impacted by your internet connection, or the server reliability. So input lag will affect your aiming. But not only. If the target moved, but the monitor does not show it in time, you may miss your target.
Now server lag, is more something that will show up when you want to fire at a target. When you have a bad server lag, it will take time for the server to process the shot. So server lag will affect your ability to reach your target as well.

Now imagine you have both... It's even worse. You will wait for the server response, and when you have the new data, it will take time for the monitor to actually display it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. :)
 
etienne51 said:
There is a difference between input lag, and server lag. For example, let's say you play a FPS game.

Having a bad input lag means, when you move your mouse around, you will have latency between the movement you make, and the movement you see on your monitor. Generally, this is not impacted by your internet connection, or the server reliability. So input lag will affect your aiming. But not only. If the target moved, but the monitor does not show it in time, you may miss your target.
Now server lag, is more something that will show up when you want to fire at a target. When you have a bad server lag, it will take time for the server to process the shot. So server lag will affect your ability to reach your target as well.

Now imagine you have both... It's even worse. You will wait for the server response, and when you have the new data, it will take time for the monitor to actually display it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. :)
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Good explanation. Input lag is the delay between your input and what you see on the screen. Server lag is a whole different ball game altogether.
 
Klarion said:
If your ping in an online game is 500ms for example you'll see massive input lag, and you won't be able to play, so what use is there for your 0 input lag CRT? You're always limited by your ping. And since good ping in online games is around 50 ms that means OLED shouldn't have bad input lag since this is what LG OLED tv has:

http://www.displaylag.com/oled-4k-2014-input-lag-results/
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The server registering your actions at a 500ms delay versus the monitor having a 500ms input lag is vastly different. If your display had 500ms of input lag, your computer would probably not even be usable. Everything - moving the mouse cursor, to typing on a keyboard in MS Word would have a half-second delay.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
I think it has some input lag and the motion clarity may not be as good (or maybe it is?). But yeah - it's a fuckton of money but I'm sure it's a beautiful monitor.
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great monitor for viewing HD content, but it's limited to 75 hz, the strobe pulse is probably 7.5 ms if it's similar to the slightly older PVM model, so there'll still be motion blur. It's also limited to 1080p native resolution.

And yes, it may well have a significant amount of input lag.
 
spacediver said:
great monitor for viewing HD content, but it's limited to 75 hz, the strobe pulse is probably 7.5 ms if it's similar to the slightly older PVM model, so there'll still be motion blur. It's also limited to 1080p native resolution.

And yes, it may well have a significant amount of input lag.
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You mean RT is 7.5ms? I read somewhere that OLED is suppose to have 1000 times better RT than LCD. Is this true?

http://www.diffen.com/difference/LED_TV_vs_OLED_TV#Response_Time
 
Hey guys, I'm running into something weird I haven't seen on my A7217A monitor while calibrating.
*Keep in mind I'm quite new to this WinDAS thing, it took me a week to fine tune a monitor that was actually better than before :p*

So I've been fine tuning my A7217A last week, and now I'm on my other screen, a GDM-FW900.
All procedures until now went fine but during the White Point Balance procedure on step 48 where I need to match the brightness of 115 cd/m² something weird is going on (and didn't happen on my A7217A).

The moment I switch from a black picture to a white picture, the monitor decreases the brightness automatically after ~0.5seconds of showing the white picture.
And after that it doesn't matter how high I set C_MAX_B_MAX, it only adjusts the brightness to a lower value, not higher.
So now I'm unable to match 115 cd/m² as its stuck around ~50 cd/m² when viewing a pure white picture.
The moment I switch back to a black picture, the monitor adjusts the brightness up again.
I'm using the pictures provided with spacediver's WPB guide and I view them with FastStone Image Viewer, so I'm not using any type of signal generator.

It seems this is happening for anything 'bright' that the monitor has to display.
Anybody got an idea why this is happening?
Also I can't recall this happening before I started adjusting this monitor with WinDAS, so did I break anything?
 
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Klarion said:
You mean RT is 7.5ms? I read somewhere that OLED is suppose to have 1000 times better RT than LCD. Is this true?

http://www.diffen.com/difference/LED_TV_vs_OLED_TV#Response_Time
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No I meant the length of the duty cycle, or persistence. A fully sample and hold display has a persistence equal to 1/refresh rate. 10% lightboost has a persistence of 1 ms.

See my post about the PVM OLED.

As for response time, OLED is very fast, from what I understand, but if there's a lot of back-end processing (as there often is with high end broadcast monitors), this can introduce a very large delay in the video chain.
 
n2k said:
So I've been fine tuning my A7217A last week, and now I'm on my other screen, a GDM-FW900.
All procedures until now went fine but during the White Point Balance procedure on step 48 where I need to match the brightness of 115 cd/m² something weird is going on (and didn't happen on my A7217A).

The moment I switch from a black picture to a white picture, the monitor decreases the brightness automatically after ~0.5seconds of showing the white picture.
And after that it doesn't matter how high I set C_MAX_B_MAX, it only adjusts the brightness to a lower value, not higher.
So now I'm unable to match 115 cd/m² as its stuck around ~50 cd/m² when viewing a pure white picture.
The moment I switch back to a black picture, the monitor adjusts the brightness up again.
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This sounds like an ABL issue (automatic brightness limiter), but I'm not certain. You say that when you switch back to a black picture, the monitor adjusts the brightness up again. What do you mean here. Do you mean that the black picture is brighter than 50 cd/m2? Or do you mean something else.

Also, did you follow the G2 voltage steps correctly? And did you check for Failures? See Etienne's post

If this problem persists, try doing a color restoration in the OSD, and then do a factory reset.

If that doesn't help, maybe MPUing would help.
 
spacediver said:
You say that when you switch back to a black picture, the monitor adjusts the brightness up again. What do you mean here. Do you mean that the black picture is brighter than 50 cd/m2? Or do you mean something else.
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Oh sorry I meant grey (30IRE) picture instead of black, and no the brightness of the grey picture isn't brighter than 50 cd/m².
That value is when viewing a pure white picture after the monitor adjusts the brightness down.
*I also edited my post, might be clearer now :rolleyes:*

spacediver said:
Also, did you follow the G2 voltage steps correctly? And did you check for Failures? See Etienne's post
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When checking for failures, it reports that everything is normal, also after a refresh.
I did G2 like described in your guide, using a black picture, and looking for brightness changes while clicking the slider (adjusts in steps of 20).
I ended up with a G2 value of 170 on this monitor.

spacediver said:
If this problem persists, try doing a color restoration in the OSD, and then do a factory reset.
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With factory reset you mean holding the reset button longer than 2 seconds?
Or reflashing the EEPROM with my backup of before starting the adjustments?
 
n2k said:
Oh sorry I meant grey (30IRE) picture instead of black, and no the brightness of the grey picture isn't brighter than 50 cd/m².
That value is when viewing a pure white picture after the monitor adjusts the brightness down.
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I'm still confused about what you mean when you say the monitor adjusts up the brightness when you switch back to the 30IRE picture. Where do you see the brightness being adjusted up? Does the slider value move up by itself or something?

n2k said:
With factory reset you mean holding the reset button longer than 2 seconds?
Or reflashing the EEPROM with my backup of before starting the adjustments?
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yep I meant using the reset button.
 
spacediver said:
I'm still confused about what you mean when you say the monitor adjusts up the brightness when you switch back to the 30IRE picture. Where do you see the brightness being adjusted up? Does the slider value move up by itself or something?
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No, the slider in WinDAS doesn't change when viewing different pictures.
I can just see the monitor adjusting the brightness (there's a small) when viewing the white and grey pictures.
Kinda in the same way a LCD with dynamic contrast on adjusts brightness based on how bright the picture is.

I'll try explaining in steps (all pictures are displayed full screen):
1. Display black picture
2. Change to white picture
3. The monitor shows the white picture at its original* brightness for ~0.1 seconds
4. I then see the white picture get slightly darker over a duration of 0.5 seconds (no WinDAS sliders or OSD brightness value change), it's still white, just darker.
5. Change to grey picture
6. The monitor shows the grey picture at its lowered brightness for ~0.1 seconds
7. I then see the grey picture getting slightly brighter over a duration of 0.5 seconds, still grey, but brighter.

*I can't measure the original brightness, since my Spyder3 colorimeter isn't that fast.
So I measured the automatically lowered brightness of 50 cd/m² when viewing a white picture.

Hope I explained it better now :p

Tried using Image Restoration, that didn't help, neither did factory reset.
Re-flashing my backup solved it *sighs relieved*
But I do wonder what caused it, so it doesn't happen again...
 
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i had a similar issue the second time i tried windas.
pretty sure it was abl related

everything should be fine if you set signal generator to manual, and display the correct patterns when asked to
for my case i think i had displayed white when it should have been black, and that triggered the abl
 
Add me to the ABL crowd. Sounds exactly what's happening. Something's set too high, which is why it has no problem getting "brighter" on a dark gray, but dimming on a full white.
 
n2k said:
No, the slider in WinDAS doesn't change when viewing different pictures.
I can just see the monitor adjusting the brightness (there's a small) when viewing the white and grey pictures.
Kinda in the same way a LCD with dynamic contrast on adjusts brightness based on how bright the picture is.

I'll try explaining in steps (all pictures are displayed full screen):
1. Display black picture
2. Change to white picture
3. The monitor shows the white picture at its original* brightness for ~0.1 seconds
4. I then see the white picture get slightly darker over a duration of 0.5 seconds (no WinDAS sliders or OSD brightness value change), it's still white, just darker.
5. Change to grey picture
6. The monitor shows the grey picture at its lowered brightness for ~0.1 seconds
7. I then see the grey picture getting slightly brighter over a duration of 0.5 seconds, still grey, but brighter.

*I can't measure the original brightness, since my Spyder3 colorimeter isn't that fast.
So I measured the automatically lowered brightness of 50 cd/m² when viewing a white picture.

Hope I explained it better now :p

Tried using Image Restoration, that didn't help, neither did factory reset.
Re-flashing my backup solved it *sighs relieved*
But I do wonder what caused it, so it doesn't happen again...
Click to expand...

I know what is the root cause of this issue... PM me...

UV!
 
LAGRUNAUER said:
I asked the user who is experiencing this issue to call me...

UV!
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Hope you get it solved. Please share results if it worked.

Strange thing happening to me, WinDAS stopped working. Every time I try to connect program crashes. Is there a way to completly reset its settings?
 
And here is my setup for imaging the screen. Took a while to set this up so that there was minimal vibration. The way I have it here works very well: I can control the linear stage and the image doesn't shake at all. Perfect. Next step is to test a few apertures with my ronchi ruling to figure out the sweet spot between diffraction and lens aberration.

1zoz13k.png
 
igsux3 said:
Hope you get it solved. Please share results if it worked.
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UV said the tube might be near the end of its lifetime :( Elaborating further with: tubes with low emission levels can't be calibrated properly. But if the tube has good emission levels, then the D-board is faulty.

Although the weird thing is that my monitor never did that before I started with WinDAS on this monitor.
And it's still working fine after I re-flashed the EEPROM with my backup before I started.
I can measure ~90 cd/m² on 90 brightness.

I'll give the White Point Balance another go, and see what happens.
Edit:
After trying it a second time it doesn't adjust the brightness on step 48, and I can measure 130 cd/m² with C_MAX_B_MAX on 90 and R_DRV_C_MAX & G_DRV_C_MAX both on 200.
Happy that it works now, just odd what happened last time...
 
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n2k thanks for sharing this information, it's useful to know. Hopefully you still have some life left in the tube. The fact that you only had to move the slider to 90 is a good sign I think. Compare with this one
 
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n2k said:
UV said the tube might be near the end of its lifetime :( Elaborating further with: tubes with low emission levels can't be calibrated properly. But if the tube has good emission levels, then the D-board is faulty.

Although the weird thing is that my monitor never did that before I started with WinDAS on this monitor.
And it's still working fine after I re-flashed the EEPROM with my backup before I started.
I can measure ~90 cd/m² on 90 brightness.

I'll give the White Point Balance another go, and see what happens.
Edit:
After trying it a second time it doesn't adjust the brightness on step 48, and I can measure 130 cd/m² with C_MAX_B_MAX on 90 and R_DRV_C_MAX & G_DRV_C_MAX both on 200.
Happy that it works now, just odd what happened last time...
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Again, and to make it clear... My response on the issue was based on the information given by the user, and it was issued without me performing a through check on the unit.

Also, brightness level measuring 130 cd/m2 on this monitor are high, and any adjustments in the 200 level are high as well. I would check the tube for emission level and gun(s) cut-off levels and tracking.

Hope this helps...

UV!
 
LAGRUNAUER said:
Again, and to make it clear... My response on the issue was based on the information given by the user, and it was issued without me performing a through check on the unit.

Also, brightness level measuring 130 cd/m2 on this monitor are high, and any adjustments in the 200 level are high as well. I would check the tube for emission level and gun(s) cut-off levels and tracking.

Hope this helps...

UV!
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Thanks again for your advice, much appreciated!

I ended up with the following values after completing WPB procedure I'm using 6500K with IRE 100% at around 85cd/m² I have the following values:
G2: 178
P8sdAIj.png


So after WinDAS WPB I have a maximum &#916;E of 1.55 and an average &#916;E of 0.86.
Later tonight I will do software calibration and profiling with dispcalGUI for even better accuracy and better gamma ramps (current average gamma is 2.45).

I'm currently writing most of my though process doing all WinDAS procedures, after I've done about 2 more monitors I hope I can contribute back to this community by sharing my notes/quick guide.
I read spacediver, flod and jbltecnicspro were trying to make an ultimate guide for WinDAS, hopefully we can make this a reality :)

Man these monitors are so good :cool:
 
nah, not really interested - far inferior to the FW900 - worse dot pitch, lower frequency, curved screen, etc.
 
I'm sure if I asked nicely they'd probably let it go, but like I said earlier, I've got too many large CRTs right now, and limited space :p
 
I found out that FW900 has variable dot pitch, from .23 in center to .27 in edges. So first of all, why is this so? Is it because of widescreen? Because I'm looking at other Trinitrons/Diamondtrons and they have universal pitch.

Other question is, if I was to run this monitor at 1680x1050 resolution so that the edges of screen are a bit further from the edge of viewable area, what would the dot pitch be then? .26? I mean, I'd like to know how fast does the pitch go from .23 to .27 on screen(how much inches till it gets to .25 etc.)

Also, how did you deal with this problem? Did it bother you? I like how my LCD has same dot pitch all over and I don't know if I could tolerate something like this, maybe I wouldn't even notice it.

BTW this is my backup option, wonder which one is better from these two:
21" GDM F-520
22" HP p1230 - diamondtron
 
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it's most likely to account for the fact that with wide deflection angles, the beam cannot be kept as tight, so the spot size widens. You won't notice it, it's not a problem at all.
 
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