Ballmer Admits Surface a Flop, Windows 8 Sales Are Disappointing

Red Falcon said:
Because you keep shoving it down our throats at every, single, solitary, opportunity.
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Nonsense, I've never talked about Windows 8 but in threads that were specifically about the subject or closely related to it. The same can't be said of you and Linux.

Red Falcon said:
Oh, and when someone says X doesn't work well because Y, you go out of your way to tell them they don't have 20 years of experience with it to appreciate it nor understand it as well as you do, and how you don't understand why literally EVERYONE is telling you X doesn't work because Y.
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Not at all. The other day I pointed out to wonderfield that administrative tools like Disk Cleanup do not show up in a Windows 8.x search unless those tools have been explicitly exposed in the Start Screen. Hard to have 20 years of experience in something that isn't even a year old in production. Believe it or not, I actually do develop software for a living. If someone tells me that X doesn't work, I need to find out Y. Is that so difficult to understand?

Red Falcon said:
Now you know how we feel about you and your "opinions", or should I say, PR statements.
heat, this isn't just wrench00 and I calling you out any more, damn near everyone on here is sick of hearing your elitist banter about how you "get it" and the rest of the world doesn't.
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As I pointed out, I can say "me" or "I" and people will still complain. Stop making an issue out of nothing.
 
ktk_ace said:
From personal experience windows 8 sucks!

nuff?
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Yes. It's only when one actually goes into any specifics as to why 8 doesn't suck that one gets called a fanboy. But when you say it sucks without any knowledge or experience, that's cool. Because when you have knowledge and experience about Windows you're in a bubble. But when you know how install a Windows game on Linux or recompile a Linux kernel, well, Linux is only limited by the users knowledge.

The double standards and hypocrisy are hard to follow.
 
heatlesssun said:
Yes. It's only when one actually goes into any specifics as to why 8 doesn't suck that one gets called a fanboy. But when you say it sucks without any knowledge or experience, that's cool. Because when you have knowledge and experience about Windows you're in a bubble.

The double standards and hypocrisy are hard to follow.
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No, because your posts to everyone else's posts are like 1000:1.


But when you know how install a Windows game on Linux or recompile a Linux kernel, well, Linux is only limited by the users knowledge.
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It is, and anyone who has used Linux for more than a day would know that.
I don't see Windows running on any supercomputers, embedded systems, or anything outside of a desktop/laptop/tablet environment, woopdy freakin doo!
Just don't even bring up Linux, not only is it off topic, but you don't know anything about it.

So please, for the sake of us all, just stick to your white knight comments on Microsoft/Win8.
Pretty please, with sugar on top. :D

I also find it ironic, that you are the one to be the first to bring up Linux in a Microsoft/Win8 related thread.
 
bacon said:
They should have given these to the LA school system. Take a loss on them and get some user base going.
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Bingo.

This is how Apple got going. The pushed the Apple II's to the colleges at cost. Parents bought them for their kids to do homework with.

Ditto for AutoCAD, but employers, not parents.
 
Microsoft should not have included the word "Windows" in Windows RT. Maybe Metro RT? Basically, Windows RT doesn't run what people think is Windows software.
 
Is the windows phone appstore not available on RT? I always thought of RT like I do tablets that run android.
 
KENNYB said:
Microsoft should not have included the word "Windows" in Windows RT. Maybe Metro RT? Basically, Windows RT doesn't run what people think is Windows software.
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I think they could have gotten away with reviving the Windows Mobile branding. Windows Mobile 8 would convey that it's a Microsoft OS but that it's focused on mobile platforms (apps and walled gardens).
 
stealthy123 said:
Is the windows phone appstore not available on RT?
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Nicolas%20Cage%20Laugh.gif
 
Red Falcon said:
Because you keep shoving it down our throats at every, single, solitary, opportunity.
Oh, and when someone says X doesn't work well because Y, you go out of your way to tell them they don't have 20 years of experience with it to appreciate it nor understand it as well as you do, and how you don't understand why literally EVERYONE is telling you X doesn't work because Y.


Now you know how we feel about you and your "opinions", or should I say, PR statements.
heat, this isn't just wrench00 and I calling you out any more, damn near everyone on here is sick of hearing your elitist banter about how you "get it" and the rest of the world doesn't.
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Actually, you Linux-lovers keep jumping into Win8 threads and anything even loosely related to operating systems and spamming about how Linux is X, Y, and Z (all awesome features, but of course). Heatless, and others (including myself) don't really tend to go into Linux threads much to talk about Win8 like you do vice-versa.

Yes, experience has a lot to do with skill level in using something. If you don't know what you're doing, what's wrong with someone mentioning it in that context?

Right, because someone likes something you don't, they're a "PR statement" giver who is a company shill.... makes perfect sense! /sarcasm

Win8 is definitely going in the right direction for Microsoft's future... that'll become more obvious with time, just like back in the day I used to argue with people that dual-cores and later quad-cores would be important for gamers, not just server applications, "in the future" (at that point).
 
wonderfield said:
You're wasting your time.
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Yep... given his knowledge and lack of insight on this topic, he probably should do more reading and gain practical experience in it, before spamming tons of irrelevant, ill-informed, and often downright off-topic remarks into this thread.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Actually, you Linux-lovers keep jumping into Win8 threads and anything even loosely related to operating systems and spamming about how Linux is X, Y, and Z (all awesome features, but of course). Heatless, and others (including myself) don't really tend to go into Linux threads much to talk about Win8 like you do vice-versa.
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I never did that in this thread.
In fact, heatless was the first to actually bring up Linux in this thread.

Who gives a fuck if I'm a Linux user, everyone, including me, is entitled to our opinions.
What we use has no difference on who should post where.

Yes, experience has a lot to do with skill level in using something. If you don't know what you're doing, what's wrong with someone mentioning it in that context?
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Well, on many occasions, heatless has stated that one needs over twenty years of experience to appreciate and even know how to use the Windows OS.
While you are right, he tends to exaggerate one's knowledge by using this as an argumentative crutch when, in all actuality, there is something wrong with the OS.

Right, because someone likes something you don't, they're a "PR statement" giver who is a company shill.... makes perfect sense! /sarcasm
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The reason we call it a PR statement, and others have called heatless a "white knight" is because all he does is defend Windows 8 and Microsoft, even when there are times both are completely undefendable.
I expect someone, like Major Nelson, who actually works for Microsoft, to do this, mainly because it is his job.
heatless does not work for Microsoft, yet does this anyways, hence why we tease and call it a PR statement, because that's exactly what it feels like.

Win8 is definitely going in the right direction for Microsoft's future... that'll become more obvious with time, just like back in the day I used to argue with people that dual-cores and later quad-cores would be important for gamers, not just server applications, "in the future" (at that point).
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Well, until their sales stop declining and there is proof in what you say, it is just raw speculation.
You have a right to your opinion, but let me tell you, the numbers have been going down for quite some time, so if it is going to work, it's going to be a long time before we see it.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Yep... given his knowledge and lack of insight on this topic, he probably should do more reading and gain practical experience in it,
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You have no idea what my knowledge level of Windows is.
Give me a break. :rolleyes:

before spamming tons of irrelevant, ill-informed, and often downright off-topic remarks into this thread.
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Oh, you mean like this bullshit post downright insulting me?
Mods, you want to take care of this shit, please?
 
I like Linux (well, some distros anyhow) and I also like Windows Vista. Windows 7 is a souless redo of Vista and, honestly, it has like zero personality compared to Vista. I don't really mind Windows 8, but I'm not excited about it or even interested in it except from a trolling perspective and that's gotten really boring since there's nothing new to say about it that hasn't already been said over and over in every single thread about it. The only really interesting thing about Windows 8 to me is that there's no driver support for Intel GMA 915 video cards so stuff that had a "Vista Capable" sticker on it now can actually get a Windows OS newer than XP. I've gone back to Vista (or 7 & XP) on pretty much everything I own that isn't running Mint 15 and I'm waiting to see what'll happen with 8.1 before doing any new purchasing stuff.

I think Mister Ballmer is an okay guy. He's got a lot of money and is pretty good looking for a corporate executive. Yeah the Oracle guy is better, but Oracle is so evil that you just can't overlook that fact when you see him. Still, he's not the only person involved in the whole Windows 8 mess. A lot of people didn't listen to their customers for this to happen and the results are obviously bad. Microsoft really does hafta innovate somehow to stay in growth segments of the market, but should they really do it at a cost to their existing customers or is there a better way?
 
Red Falcon said:
You have no idea what my knowledge level of Windows is.
Give me a break. :rolleyes:


Oh, you mean like this bullshit post downright insulting me?
Mods, you want to take care of this shit, please?
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Biggest indication you're right and they're out of ammo when they start throwing insults.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Win8 is definitely going in the right direction for Microsoft's future... that'll become more obvious with time, just like back in the day I used to argue with people that dual-cores and later quad-cores would be important for gamers, not just server applications, "in the future" (at that point).
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Care to back that up with any sort of facts? And who the hech ever argued that dual/quad core cpu's weren't the future? Didn't take a genius to figure that out. You comparing apples to oranges any ways...wow
 
BryanSTG said:
Experienced Windows 8 users don't spend all day every day trying to convince people they've never met on the internet how great it is, that it's better, and that everyone who doesn't like it is wrong, confused, or misguided.

Since you do all of the above in EVERY SINGLE Windows 8 thread that makes you (and everyone else who does the same) a white knighter and a fanboy.
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Cool, I finally found my purpose in life, I am a white knighter and a fan boy, woohoo! :D Windows 8 sucks, Windows 8 doesn't suck, Heatless making good, valid points, people accusing him of forcing stuff down their throats ad nausem..... It is great. :D

I personally gave up and just use what works for me. I am a computer professional and do not take stupid sides in what is essentially just a tool I use everyday. I guess what annoys me the most is you guys insistence that you must shove your Windows 8 sucks crap down my throat everyday in every Microsoft thread.

I guess you just accuse others to deflect what you guys are doing everyday. (Pot meet kettle.) [H]ard forum, this is not.
 
Red Falcon said:
You have no idea what my knowledge level of Windows is.
Give me a break. :rolleyes:


Oh, you mean like this bullshit post downright insulting me?
Mods, you want to take care of this shit, please?
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:D Ah, classic. Anyways, how about you let use know what your level of experience is then, eh?
 
Red Falcon said:
That wasn't really an answer to his question either. ;)
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Why would he answer his own question? :rolleyes: Anyways, as far a I know, no, the phone apps cannot be used on RT. (Would have been cool to be able to do so though.)
 
Lol... Windows H8ers...

We all knew the RT was going to flop... Nothing new here. Bally boy is just now coming to the realization. Who cares....
 
Veilrap said:
That video is filled with FUD and fallacy.
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Microsoft needed to do a much better job with in the box training and instructions for 8 given the considerable differences between it and prior versions of Windows. The only thing there now is the very thin hot corners and edge swipes tutorial on user setup which I did believe would be enhanced in the RTM but wasn't.

I've spent about 10 to 15 minutes with about dozen people since Windows 8 came out helping with the new UI and it according to these people it did make a things a lot easier for them. I think most people can be easily trained with the new UI in a modest amount of time and then get a good handle on things in a few days of use. 8.1 does introduce a fair number of options that I think can make the transition much easier than in 8.1 particularly if one is only dealing with desktop apps.

The 8.1 Preview does have a place holder for a Modern Help & Tips app. I'll be very curious how this turns out and if there might be one or two more tweaks and options coming in the RTM. There are three things that I think could make a huge difference in making Windows 8.1 more palatable to old school desktop users:

1. Option to make the Start Screen take only a 1/3rd or 1/4th of the screen
2. Option to allow the Modern Search box bring up search results in File Explorer like 7 when choosing to see all the search results.
3. A wizard that would allow for quickly and easily setting defaults to desktop apps instead of Metro apps

I know there's other desires like a Metro off switch and Start Menu but I think it make more sense for Microsoft to spend its time and resources improving the Modern UI and its integration into the desktop and to make it easier to transition to for desktop and keyboard and mouse users and changes like this I think go a long way towards accomplishing this.
 
heatlesssun said:
Microsoft needed to do a much better job with in the box training and instructions for 8 given the considerable differences between it and prior versions of Windows. The only thing there now is the very thin hot corners and edge swipes tutorial on user setup which I did believe would be enhanced in the RTM but wasn't.

I've spent about 10 to 15 minutes with about dozen people since Windows 8 came out helping with the new UI and it according to these people it did make a things a lot easier for them. I think most people can be easily trained with the new UI in a modest amount of time and then get a good handle on things in a few days of use. 8.1 does introduce a fair number of options that I think can make the transition much easier than in 8.1 particularly if one is only dealing with desktop apps.

The 8.1 Preview does have a place holder for a Modern Help & Tips app. I'll be very curious how this turns out and if there might be one or two more tweaks and options coming in the RTM. There are three things that I think could make a huge difference in making Windows 8.1 more palatable to old school desktop users:

1. Option to make the Start Screen take only a 1/3rd or 1/4th of the screen
2. Option to allow the Modern Search box bring up search results in File Explorer like 7 when choosing to see all the search results.
3. A wizard that would allow for quickly and easily setting defaults to desktop apps instead of Metro apps

I know there's other desires like a Metro off switch and Start Menu but I think it make more sense for Microsoft to spend its time and resources improving the Modern UI and its integration into the desktop and to make it easier to transition to for desktop and keyboard and mouse users and changes like this I think go a long way towards accomplishing this.
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Yes because investing a ton of time and resources into teaching people to use a UI they clearly don't like is such a better idea than just giving a toggle and choice. :rolleyes:

Whatever, I don't really care that much anymore. If MS persists in this exercise in stupidity I will just do what I did during the XP days and modify the entire gui and gut all the useless garbage out. I always preferred blackbox to the start menu anyhow.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Yes because investing a ton of time and resources into teaching people to use a UI they clearly don't like is such a better idea than just giving a toggle and choice. :rolleyes:
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For a product with as many users as Windows, anytime a change is made to the UI there's going to be millions of people that won't like it and will want to go back the old UI. The Modern UI isn't change for the sake of change, it's change in response to a very dramatic shift in the way people use computing devices. If Windows cannot be adapted to fit in with this new paradigm it really won't matter how many backwards compatibility options there are for desktop only users. There just won't be much of a future for Windows other than for legacy's sake as people move to more tablets, touch input and smaller and more mobile devices.

If the desktop market were growing then it would make a lot of sense to have an in the box Metro off switch. With a desktop market that's shrinking, even the Mac market is shrinking, I don't see how retaining the old UI helps move Windows forward. Yes, it would make a shirking desktop market happier, shrinking being the keyword.
 
pcjunkie said:
Care to back that up with any sort of facts? And who the hech ever argued that dual/quad core cpu's weren't the future? Didn't take a genius to figure that out. You comparing apples to oranges any ways...wow
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Huge numbers of people back a decade ago would flame and troll that dual core might never be used well by games or pc desktops, and buying one was a waste compared to faster single cores. The same happened going from dual to quad, ie q6600 vs e6600. Predictions can't be proven in advance by definition so I have no idea why you're asking me to provide facts to do so.
 
heatlesssun said:
For a product with as many users as Windows, anytime a change is made to the UI there's going to be millions of people that won't like it and will want to go back the old UI. The Modern UI isn't change for the sake of change, it's change in response to a very dramatic shift in the way people use computing devices. If Windows cannot be adapted to fit in with this new paradigm it really won't matter how many backwards compatibility options there are for desktop only users. There just won't be much of a future for Windows other than for legacy's sake as people move to more tablets, touch input and smaller and more mobile devices.

If the desktop market were growing then it would make a lot of sense to have an in the box Metro off switch. With a desktop market that's shrinking, even the Mac market is shrinking, I don't see how retaining the old UI helps move Windows forward. Yes, it would make a shirking desktop market happier, shrinking being the keyword.
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I disagree with this sentiment still. On the Tablet and phone, yes it was "Good" change. However the modern UI brings little to no benefit to the desktop experience unless you are utilizing your desktop along side your tablet/phone. Given how little market penetration Win Phone and Tablets have, it never has been a reasonable argument that modern UI needed to be forced on to non touch devices. The simple fact alone that you have to jump through hoops to make it work right on those devices (Laptops with touchpads being poignant examples) is enough to prove this.

I have said it once, I have said it a hundred times and I will continue saying it. If Microsoft wanted to Push windows forward without alienating their customer base, it was a simple approach.

1) Create the modern UI experience on Tablets and Phones.
2) Evolve Windows to be able to take advantage of it if synchronized with a mobile windows device or Specifically enabled by the user.
3) Launch a marketing campaign touting the Benefits of the windows ecosystem when combining these environments while maintaining thee ability for end users to flexibly choose their experience.

This still allows them to start pushing the modern concept without pissing off the majority of their user base. Oh sure Desktops might be in decline, but the fact remains they are still and will be for some years a Huge chunk of the market. I believe the analogy is "Biting the hand that feeds you". Had microsoft taken the above approach, their user base would of been far more receptive to giving it a chance vs their approach of "Too damn bad you will buy what we tell you". Honestly whatever marketing team told them that approach would work should be terminated post haste. Continue that approach over a couple generations of windows (6 years if they stuck to the 2 year release cycle) and you likely would be looking at a vastly different outcome.
 
Windows 8 is already nail in coffin long time ago.

Windows 8.1 is more gimmick and about to die soon.

I want Windows 9 with only Desktop with real start menu back.

Microsoft need start dump Windows 8 now and do rework Windows 9.

Ballner can eat Windows 8 shit out of his a$$.
 
I run windows 8 pro on my home desktop with dual monitors. I had to specifically hunt for desktop versions of apps to run that would otherwise run in the Ui. I sometimes have skype, vent, game (wow) and browser going all at once to multitask and take care of things. So the windows 8 app versions simply do not get used. Why do I need a full screen minesweeper? or a full screen solitair or whatever it is to wile away a few minutes when I have it to spend? Simple, I don't. But MS says I must so I simply don't use those apps any longer. Why am I running windows 8? Because my son's new laptop has it and I need to be able to tell him how to use it. Same with my wife's new laptop. (both from Dell.)

Sigh.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
One of Windows 8's other problems is how it performs on AMD's E-series processors. Those things are in a lot of computers, including Sony's 11.6 inch VAIO. Windows 8 runs really not well on those kinds of platforms and Microsoft should have gotten AMD involved earlier so they could have worked together to better optimize the OS for budget AMD CPUs.
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Really? I was running Windows 8 Pro (evaluation) on my Lenovo x120e with the AMD E-350 (and now Windows 8.1 Pro Preview) and it seems "fast and fluid" or whatever Microsoft is calling the experience. I don't have any performance problems compared to my Windows 7 installation. I am not seeing "Windows 8 runs really not well on those kind of platforms." It ran really not well on my Intel Atom N2600, but I guess that's to be expected with a rebranded PowerVR "Intel GMA 2600" GPU.
 
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