Ballmer Admits Surface a Flop, Windows 8 Sales Are Disappointing

[Red Falcon]

But Windows 8.1 and the next generation of hardware I think stand a very good shot of gaining some traction, particularly with the upcoming Bay Trail Atoms which on paper a least look pretty impressive. 8.1 does fix a lot of things that were broken or incomplete in Windows 8 though still more can be done.

Oh give it up man!
The next Atom processors aren't going to shit about the sales of these devices.

You said this for years about Clover Trail, and it made zero difference.
Now Bay Trail is the next magical processor of sales-goodness for Microsoft, according to you.

This is fuckin hilarious!!!


As for Ballmer admitting that both Surface and Windows 8 sales are not god-like, I have to say my respect for the man has increased by a point or two.
These poor sales figures, not to mention the slowing decline of the desktop PC due in part to Windows 8, cannot go unmentioned at this point in time.

 

[heatlesssun]

Bottom line, MS simply expecting everyone to swallow that metro pill with no meaningful or natural evolution and extension to people's ways of working with the computer, no meaningful apps and believing simple change for the sake of change would be enough to vault people and businesses over the fascination threshold, all in some half hearted attempt to get people interested in their stillborn mobile offerings, that was just never going to work.

If one is dealing with a true enterprise, thousands of employees and apps, they started their move to Windows 7 years ago hopefully. Windows 8, no matter how it turned out was never going to at this point be the major business OS because of timing. If Windows 8 were more "desktopy" then sure there'd probably be more of it at this point in business but still we're not even a year out from the release of 8. At this point in XP's life businesses were not hopping onboard with that venerable OS either for many reasons.

To say that 8 doesn't offer meaningful change is short sighted. No, it doesn't bring major change to the desktop and with all of the complaints about Windows 8 and the changes I don't even know how much "meaningful" change could be bought to the somewhat ancient desktop metaphor without millions complaining about no off switch to go back to a 20 year old UI anyway.

The changes to Windows 8 are definitely focused on mobile and tablets and touch and they have to have meaning if for no other reason than the complaints about the changes. On tablets and touch devices 8 is pretty cool. The mix of the Modern and classic desktop is a change and does require more thought for a Fisher Price UI than just a typical desktop only OS, but not that much more. And when used beyond a desktop and with devices that can be highly mobile AND work with traditional software and input methods, it is unique and quite powerful.

 

[Red Falcon]

I'm not sure why two versions of Windows 8 can't happen. Windows 8 Desktop, Windows 8 Tablet. Both would be compatible with x86 and ARM. This way, those who love Metro can install Windows 8 Tablet. Those who don't? Windows 8 Desktop. Simple. Have the cake, and eat it too.

Because, holy shit, that makes WAY too much sense!

No, I fully agree with you, and have no idea (other than greed and control) why Microsoft didn't do this in the first place.
I've been saying this since before Windows 8 was even released.

 

[Flyboat]

Because, holy shit, that makes WAY too much sense!

No, I fully agree with you, and have no idea (other than greed and control) why Microsoft didn't do this in the first place.
I've been saying this since before Windows 8 was even released.

It is probably because Ballmer is full of himself. Even if someone has suggested to him, he probably won't listen.

 

[Red Falcon]

If I didn't get it then why did I mention making the Start Screen configurable to take a percentage of the screen? The Start Menu isn't necessary for that. I don't think it's as big of a deal as some make it from a productivity standpoint but yes it is different.

Dude, yes it is.
Everyone has been screaming this very thing in your face and you've just blown it off.

The Start MENU is very important!
I said, if it weren't for 3rd party programs like Start8 and Classic Shell, I wouldn't even touch Windows 8.

Oh, and until Microsoft does disable the Modern UI and brings back the Start menu, Windows 8 isn't going anywhere near enterprise environments.
But as I've said before, Microsoft is following Apple's trail, in getting out of enterprise and focusing more on consumer based crap.

So much for innovation and awesomeness, here comes mainstream and been-there-done-that!

 

[punisher]

To say that 8 doesn't offer meaningful change is short sighted. No, it doesn't bring major change to the desktop and with all of the complaints about Windows 8 and the changes I don't even know how much "meaningful" change could be bought to the somewhat ancient desktop metaphor without millions complaining about no off switch to go back to a 20 year old UI anyway.

I will give you credit, no matter how much you deny it, you have come around on your views (a little) regarding Windows 8. You can evolve.

Windows 8 doesn't offer "meaningful change", it offers change..... and only change. Change can either be benign, harmful, or helpful. Windows 8 changes were harmful to desktop/non touchscreen users. Trying to force ALL users into Metro was an exercise in futility that was not corrected, and won't be corrected on Windows 8.1.

There comes a time when "it ain't broke, don't fix it" is sound advice.

 

[Red Falcon]

And I simply see no evidence that turning the whole focus of Windows 8 on PC's into a FischerPrice environment for screen pokers was going to make their mobile offerings take off, nevermind kissing goodbye the hundreds of millions of Win8 installs they could have otherwise secured in enterprise environments at an opportunistic time as a mass migration from XP begins.

You see heatlesssun?
I'm not the only one to call the Windows 8 GUI a FischerPrice environment.

I've said before, Microsoft dumbed-down the OS too far, to the point where it is no longer productive, and is more reminiscent of iOS than of Windows.
Windows 8 is a toy *cough* tablet OS, nothing more.

For productivity, designing, gaming, or anything else that matters on a desktop or laptop, Windows 7 is where it's at.
For playing, Facebooking, tweeting, and other bullshit that doesn't mean anything on a tablet, Windows 8 has got your back.

 

[Bamboo]

I'm not surprised the sales are disappointing. Everyone I know is either avoiding Windows 8 or hates it.

or both.

 

[heatlesssun]

Oh give it up man!
The next Atom processors aren't going to shit about the sales of these devices.

Have you used 8.1 on a Bay Trail device? Do you know that they will cost or how they will perform?

You said this for years about Clover Trail, and it made zero difference.
Now Bay Trail is the next magical processor of sales-goodness for Microsoft, according to you.

For years? And I never said that Clover Trails was all that. What I find hilarious is the that I always have discussions in this forum about Clover Trail Windows 8 devices with people that have never touched one. They have their problems but they are the thinnest, lightest and best battery life Windows devices I've ever used. Clover Trails are missing performance and I've said that many times. Bay Trail, as promised by Intel, is supposed to fix that issue mostly. At the right price, many have said that Bay Trail devices, if the performance and battery life is there could have a huge impact on Windows 8 tablets. I've not used a Windows 8.1 Bay Trail tablet and neither have you. Let's leave it at that for now.

 

[ICOM]

We would not be enjoying this conversation had Microsoft given users the option to load the classic windows desktop on W8. Microsoft didn't learn from the dismal failure of Vista and they're going to repeat themselves with W8.

 

[BryanSTG]

I always find it interesting that people that use Windows 8 as their daily driver are called White Knighters or fanboys instead of just experienced Windows 8 users.

Experienced Windows 8 users don't spend all day every day trying to convince people they've never met on the internet how great it is, that it's better, and that everyone who doesn't like it is wrong, confused, or misguided.

Since you do all of the above in EVERY SINGLE Windows 8 thread that makes you (and everyone else who does the same) a white knighter and a fanboy.

 

[ekuest]

i saw a win8 AIO PC at costco and figured id give it a shot. it was on metro. i hit internet explorer. i went to google.com. i tried to go back to metro. stuck. spent 30 seconds trying to figure out how to get out of IE and then walked away, with it stuck at google.com. why would you go from something that has evolved over 20 years (the desktop) to be very user friendly to something where it isnt even clear how you close what youre doing? even a 3yo who cant read will see the red X and know you click that to close. to this day i have no idea how i was supposed to close IE since i just have no interest in boning myself with an unintuitive UI.

im sure metro works great once you know how to use it, the problem is i dont want to know how to use it. i've been using the windows desktop for over a decade and it makes sense to me. it's great. win7 is the best windows yet. if MS want to try something new, why cant they listen to the consumers and let us use the desktop if we want, or metro if we want? is it really that hard to give us an option? (the answer is no it is not, since they've actually gone out of their way to block desktop and start menu 3rd party programs and force metro on users.)

basically if someone likes metro, more power to them. for those of us who dont, or use a mouse and keyboard, i kindly ask that MS stop trying to forcibly insert metro into our anuses.

 

[Red Falcon]

Have you used 8.1 on a Bay Trail device? Do you know that they will cost or how they will perform?

Yep, I, and anyone else with common sense, do.
Will most likely be the same as the first one, maybe slightly higher cost, a la iPad 2, and will probably preform the exact same in day to day tasks.

BIG SHOCKER!!!

For years? And I never said that Clover Trails was all that. What I find hilarious is the that I always have discussions in this forum about Clover Trail Windows 8 devices with people that have never touched one. They have their problems but they are the thinnest, lightest and best battery life Windows devices I've ever used. Clover Trails are missing performance and I've said that many times. Bay Trail, as promised by Intel, is supposed to fix that issue mostly. At the right price, many have said that Bay Trail devices, if the performance and battery life is there could have a huge impact on Windows 8 tablets.

Yeah, you've gone on and on about Clover Trail, all throughout 2012.
It was non-stop.

You've been talking about Bay Trail as well, since at least last October.
Same shit, different day.

A better processor is not going to fix Microsoft's situation with tablets or Windows 8.
Listening to their loyal customers (and actually following through) is what is going to save them this time.

I've not used a Windows 8.1 Bay Trail tablet and neither have you. Let's leave it at that for now.

Then why do you go on and on and on about how fucking wonderful it is and how it is the savior that will bring Microsoft to supreme rule of the planet???
Really, you should follow your own advice, maybe, just this once.

 

[jbltecnicspro]

The thing I've noticed about the really strong advocates is that if X product (the product they're defending until their death) doesn't fulfill a certain usage need from someone, then automatically that someone is "doing it wrong." It annoys me to no end when this happens. Just acknowledge that for that certain someone, your beloved product doesn't work for them. Then move on. Or - don't bother posting at all and just let them say their peace.

 

[LeviathanZERO]

Yeah bitch, eat crow.
Now start listening to your customer's or it's gonna keep getting worse.

What would be the effect of low Windows 8 sales, low Surface sales, and low Xbox one sales??
Hmm....

 

[wonderfield]

"A few"?

 

[DejaWiz]

1. If one is dealing with a true enterprise, thousands of employees and apps, they started their move to Windows 7 years ago hopefully. Windows 8, no matter how it turned out was never going to at this point be the major business OS because of timing. If Windows 8 were more "desktopy" then sure there'd probably be more of it at this point in business but still we're not even a year out from the release of 8. At this point in XP's life businesses were not hopping onboard with that venerable OS either for many reasons.

2. To say that 8 doesn't offer meaningful change is short sighted. No, it doesn't bring major change to the desktop and with all of the complaints about Windows 8 and the changes I don't even know how much "meaningful" change could be bought to the somewhat ancient desktop metaphor without millions complaining about no off switch to go back to a 20 year old UI anyway.

3. The changes to Windows 8 are definitely focused on mobile and tablets and touch and they have to have meaning if for no other reason than the complaints about the changes. On tablets and touch devices 8 is pretty cool. The mix of the Modern and classic desktop is a change and does require more thought for a Fisher Price UI than just a typical desktop only OS, but not that much more. And when used beyond a desktop and with devices that can be highly mobile AND work with traditional software and input methods, it is unique and quite powerful.

1. It's not that easy. Many "true" large/global enterprise environments have thousands of applications in their library, and many of those are not compatible with any OS later than XP, so they can't migrate all of their systems to WinVi or Win7 even if they wanted to. It's not the fault of the enterprise...it's the fault of the software companies that made the products so long ago that are either a.) not in existence anymore so there are no newer versions and no alternatives yet exist to fulfill the business need, or b a newer version has an exorbitant price tag, or c a newer version has an exorbitant price tag and requires proprietary hardware also with exorbitant price tags. This is very common in government, medical, education, and energy companies or entities. I would also be inclined to say some of the blame rests on MS's shoulders for not ensuring 100% backwards-compatibility with each newer OS.

2. Win Classic UI -> Win Metro UI is not a meaningful change for any x86 compatible device without a touchscreen. Period. Nothing shortsighted about it. The consumers have spoken and Microsoft is FINALLY ADMITTING THEIR FUCK UP by stating that Win8 sales have been very disappointing. Thought this would have been obvious to you, but you still manage to argue that Win8 is superior because you use and like it. This reminds me of another thread on the forum titled Rage Sucks. Seems like 95% of responders agree, and the remaining 5% state and/or argue that they like it. Doesn't change the fact that the game is a disappointment to a majority of consumers and it was a failure for Id. Here's another one: Windows ME. I personally knew a few people that really liked it, but even MS admits that it was a huge flop and they've even joked about it.

3. You're right: Win8 was designed with focus on mobile touch devices, and using it with such devices is pretty nice. All of that becomes apparent even to those with next to no common sense. I'm happy to see you state that outright. Good progress. Gold star. Now just leave it at that and quit arguing, because outside of that is where the usefulness of Win8 stops to the majority of consumers across all market segments.

 

[jbltecnicspro]

I'm not surprised the sales are disappointing. Everyone I know is either avoiding Windows 8 or hates it.

or both.

I myself have tried it. I got a Pro x64 key from school and threw it on my game drive to give it the ole test drive and didn't like it. I put one of the start menu things on there (can't remember if it was Classic Shell or Start8 - maybe I tried both? It was a while ago...) and still tried. At the end of the day... I didn't see a point in moving from Windows 7. Maybe someday, but not now. I didn't like the start screen, and it didn't help that upon installation of the current Nvidia driver (didn't remember which one) the screen went black. Hate it? Nah - I don't hate it. But I don't see the point of going from Windows 7 either. The only thing that it brings to the table for me personally is the new user interface - and I don't like it.

 

[heatlesssun]

Dude, yes it is.
Everyone has been screaming this very thing in your face and you've just blown it off.

The Start MENU is very important!
I said, if it weren't for 3rd party programs like Start8 and Classic Shell, I wouldn't even touch Windows 8.

The Start Menu isn't important beyond being old and well known. I've never blown off the issue and probably understand the differences between the Start Menu and Start Screen/App Screen better than most that call me a Windows 8 White Knight. These are major technical differences between the Start Screen 8.1 and Start Menu:

1. The Start Menu isn't full screen and can be configured to display a number of predetermined links on the right side and integrates a local search input box.

2. All Programs in the Start Menu is little more than the hierarchical structure of programs in the Start Menu folder in the file system.

3. The Start Screen/App Screen doesn't have a hierarchical structure and uses the concept of groups from the Modern UI and employs semantic zoom to view groups at a high level.

4. The Start Screen is also a notification system with the use of Live Tiles.

5. The Apps Screen can be sorted four different ways to view applications in order of date installed, name, most used and category. Category will put all Modern apps at the beginning of the view and desktop apps at the end or vice versa depending how the "List desktop apps first in the Apps view when it's sorted by category" option is set in the Navigation tab of the Taskbar and Navigation properties dialog.

Oh, and until Microsoft does disable the Modern UI and brings back the Start menu, Windows 8 isn't going anywhere near enterprise environments.

Perhaps, but the same was said of Office 2007 and the Ribbon. Many said that Office 2007 would never be adopted by enterprises without the conventional menus and apparently that wasn't true.

But as I've said before, Microsoft is following Apple's trail, in getting out of enterprise and focusing more on consumer based crap.

Microsoft has a number of server and cloud based products that Apple doesn't have. So this is statement makes little sense.

So much for innovation and awesomeness, here comes mainstream and been-there-done-that!

What's odd about this statement is that many would say that Microsoft listening to customers means doing mainstream and been-there-done-that. Desktops are desktops and tablets are tablet and never the two shall mean. What could be more mainstream and been here and done that. The hybrid approach is quite different from anything else currently in the production market and is why many people are complaining. Microsoft took a big risk with Windows 8 and at this time, no, it's not paying off. Big risks usually don't pay off for a mega corporation like Microsoft in less than a year.

 

[Ur_Mom]

Even when one is being productive on a PC do they even much see their desktop? Granted the task bar is there if it's not set to auto hide and that I think is more of the issue than seeing the desktop.

Yes, yes, I do. I have multiple windows open and have parts of the desktop open. It's very easy to click on the My Computer icon to open a new Explorer window for moving files around. It's easy to have the icon on the desktop. That's just one of my experiences with Win7 being more efficient over Windows 8. There are plenty other examples. I use Win8 daily at home (and one PC at work) and Windows 7 on my main PC at work. There are plenty of times I go to Windows 8 and have to do multiple steps or do the Metro flip/flop to get things going where in Win7 it'd be a two click process in a second or two. Other times, with Windows 7 I expect a quick and easy way of doing things like with Windows 8. So, both definitely have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Red Falcon]

The Start Menu isn't important beyond being old and well known. I've never blown off the issue and probably understand the differences between the Start Menu and Start Screen/App Screen better than most that call me a Windows 8 White Knight. These are major technical differences between the Start Screen 8.1 and Start Menu:

1. The Start Menu isn't full screen and can be configured to display a number of predetermined links on the right side and integrates a local search input box.

2. All Programs in the Start Menu is little more than the hierarchical structure of programs in the Start Menu folder in the file system.

3. The Start Screen/App Screen doesn't have a hierarchical structure and uses the concept of groups from the Modern UI and employs semantic zoom to view groups at a high level.

4. The Start Screen is also a notification system with the use of Live Tiles.

5. The Apps Screen can be sorted four different ways to view applications in order of date installed, name, most used and category. Category will put all Modern apps at the beginning of the view and desktop apps at the end or vice versa depending how the "List desktop apps first in the Apps view when it's sorted by category" option is set in the Navigation tab of the Taskbar and Navigation properties dialog.

omg
I'll let someone else take this one for me.

Perhaps, but the same was said of Office 2007 and the Ribbon. Many said that Office 2007 would never be adopted by enterprises without the conventional menus and apparently that wasn't true.

Um, no, not even a remotely close analogy.
Office 2007 didn't have a built-in app store with a shit ton of added security holes.

Anyone worth their salt in an enterprise environment would know this.
Makes me question the quality of your work and enterprise knowledge, Mr. MegaBank.

Microsoft has a number of server and cloud based products that Apple doesn't have. So this is statement makes little sense.

So did Apple, before 2009.
That was my point, which obviously flew, right over your head.

I said that Microsoft is following suit with what Apple did, by moving away from enterprise and focusing more specifically on consumer-grade devices and services.
That does not mean Microsoft got completely out of enterprise. Read what I wrote!

What's odd about this statement is that many would say that Microsoft listening to customers means doing mainstream and been-there-done-that. Desktops are desktops and tablets are tablet and never the two shall mean. What could be more mainstream and been here and done that. The hybrid approach is quite different from anything else currently in the production market and is why many people are complaining. Microsoft took a big risk with Windows 8 and at this time, no, it's not paying off. Big risks usually don't pay off for a mega corporation like Microsoft in less than a year.

In other words, Windows 8 is a jack-of-all-trades, master of jack shit.
Got it.

 

[Dayaks]

I am waiting to see if AMD's crossfire latency fix is Windows 8.1 only. If it is, I'll probably sell my 3 7970s and buy a 780. That's how much I disliked 8 when I tried it. It'll be a tough choice though, only because I already have the 7970s.

 

[Scythe5]

Windows ATE. It eats Microsoft money.

I find it more alarming that people defend Win8. It's slow, clunky and non-intuitive and that's just on a PC. Put it on something less powerful (like, say a small crappy tablet) and watch people look around trying to find the shit smell that just entered the room.

 

[heatlesssun]

I would also be inclined to say some of the blame rests on MS's shoulders for not ensuring 100% backwards-compatibility with each newer OS.

This is literally impossible. If would mean that Microsoft would have to test EVERYTHING ever written for Windows, even if it were an internal business app that they wouldn't even have access to. Not to mention that it's also impossible to test every single piece of hardware and hardware configuration.

2. Win Classic UI -> Win Metro UI is not a meaningful change for any x86 compatible device without a touchscreen. Period. Nothing shortsighted about it. The consumers have spoken and Microsoft is FINALLY ADMITTING THEIR FUCK UP by stating that Win8 sales have been very disappointing.

So consumers are just scrambling to use desktops now? I'm not arguing that Windows 8 sales have been good. Is Apple claiming that three straight quarterly drops in Mac sales have been good for them? Part of the idea behind Windows 8 is that it's just a forgone conclusion that desktop and laptops sales are falling and that things beyond desktops and laptops and keyboards and mice need to be added to Windows otherwise Windows as a desktop only OS will just address an ever shrinking base.

Thought this would have been obvious to you, but you still manage to argue that Win8 is superior because you use and like it. This reminds me of another thread on the forum titled Rage Sucks. Seems like 95% of responders agree, and the remaining 5% state and/or argue that they like it. Doesn't change the fact that the game is a disappointment to a majority of consumers and it was a failure for Id. Here's another one: Windows ME. I personally knew a few people that really liked it, but even MS admits that it was a huge flop and they've even joked about it.

Well I do use Windows 8 on several touchscreen devices, so in that respect it is clearly superior to Windows 7. And it also continues to run all of the desktop software that I need and it that software functions as always. I can now use Windows in more situations with more software options that have ever been available to me. How can a logically concluded that an OS that does more for me than it's predecessor doesn't have at least some superiority, especially since using it with a keyboard and mouse is now second nature to me? You want me to say that Windows 8 sux because it does more for me than 7? I can appreciate those that are stuck on certain kinds of devices as I have repeatedly said that Windows 8 doesn't bring a lot to the desktop. But when you switch between devices and input methods on a whim, yeah, it's can be cool.

3. You're right: Win8 was designed with focus on mobile touch devices, and using it with such devices is pretty nice. All of that becomes apparent even to those with next to no common sense. I'm happy to see you state that outright. Good progress. Gold star. Now just leave it at that and quit arguing, because outside of that is where the usefulness of Win8 stops to the majority of consumers across all market segments.

But again, Windows 8 supports all of the things I do on desktops and that works very much like Windows 7. If you don't use it constantly in a hybrid fashion you don't see the all of the capabilities. It's like you're trying to say that Windows 8 works great on a tablet but somehow using Word or Visual Studio or Chrome or name your desktop app work differently. Beyond compatibility issues desktop apps work as always. We can debate the launching of them, that's a insignificant part of the desktop experience.

 

[surfhick]

It seems that you have lost the letter I.

 

[surfhick]

It seems that you have lost the letter I.

And what exactly have a lost?

It seems that you have lost the letter I.




I really screwed that one up.

 

[BryanSTG]

Heatless, you keep using "I" and "me" in your endless rants defending Windows 8, these are all opinions and don't reflect the real world. You pretend like your stating for a fact that W8 is better but it's not its just different.

You're entire argument is about you using your many Windows 8 computers in your Windows 8 bubble.

You're the minority and most users don't like Windows 8, most users don't have a touch screen, most users don't like being forced to learn something new just because...and therefore see little to no value in this operating system.

 

[heatlesssun]

It seems that you have lost the letter I.

As long as it's the pronoun and not the homophonic organ life remains good.

 

[Megalith]

No sure how this is news. Unless Ballmer admitted he is a bad CEO.

 

[pablouk]

You don't think it may have been the £200.00 over pricing that made this a flop.

 

[dr.kevin]

Surface could sell very easily............ in a $99 fire sale.

Microsoft needs to follow HP's example

 

[heatlesssun]

Heatless, you keep using "I" and "me" in your endless rants defending Windows 8, these are all opinions and don't reflect the real world. You pretend like your stating for a fact that W8 is better but it's not its just different.

Not sure how a person that's clearly stating personal experience and not trying to speak for anyone than himself unless otherwise stated trying to speak fact. Indeed, if I weren't prefacing my comments with personal pronouns I'd be hearing the same comment about how I was speaking facts for everyone.

You're entire argument is about you using your many Windows 8 computers in your Windows 8 bubble.

I've always used versions of Windows in a bubble. Most of the touch devices I use Windows 8 on today actually shipped with Windows 7. I pointed out repeatedly that I don't use Windows like most people. And I would think that in a forum like this that that is common. I doubt most people here would claim that they use their devices, whatever they are or whatever OS they run, like most people.

You're the minority and most users don't like Windows 8, most users don't have a touch screen, most users don't like being forced to learn something new just because...and therefore see little to no value in this operating system.

Most people don't like Windows 8? How do you know? I've never claimed that most people liked or disliked it, I've said that most people tend to be indifferent or don't like change. Without preconceptions about a Start Menu or desktop of windowed or full screen apps my observation is that people don't care one way or another generally.

Windows has a long history on the desktop and that's how most people to date have come by it. I've readily acknowledged the issues when coupling that legacy with a totally new UI. But those who don't like Windows 8 probably haven't spent much time with the new UI or devices that support it to really know what's there. So pardon me for actually using something and explaining with some clarity before condemning it to hell.

I like Windows 8 because it is a kitchen sink OS, it is an attempt to do everything that is currently done with computing devices in one OS on one device given the correct hardware. I admire the attempt because and if Windows 8 fails it does mean that we are faced with a future with OSes and devices that are limited by design. If Windows 8 fails it would mean that the market has determined that a device must be a desktop/laptop OR a tablet, unless of course someone else attempts the hybrid approach which is unlikely if Microsoft fails. I just one device that can do it all.

Why do I have to be a Windows 8 White Knight to simply want one device, one OS, that does everything I want? Why is that a crime? Windows 8 opponents are always talking about choice. I think that Windows 8 opponents have no desire for any choice, any change. The same old same old.

 

[heatlesssun]

Surface could sell very easily............ in a $99 fire sale.

Microsoft needs to follow HP's example

If Microsoft had follow HP's example they would have pulled Surface RT before last Christmas. I don't think people really understand just how badly the Touchpad did. From my understanding the HP Slate 500, the Windows 7 Atom powered tablet, did significantly better than the TouchPad. The Slate 500 never went on sale from HP for $99.

 

[Teenk9]

Experienced Windows 8 users don't spend all day every day trying to convince people they've never met on the internet how great it is, that it's better, and that everyone who doesn't like it is wrong, confused, or misguided.

Since you do all of the above in EVERY SINGLE Windows 8 thread that makes you (and everyone else who does the same) a white knighter and a fanboy.

So, the posters who are always first in every MS thread (even those with nothing to do with win8), rips on heatless even when he isn't in the thread, and proceeds to derail and hijack the thread, what are they called?

 

[Red Falcon]

Why do I have to be a Windows 8 White Knight to simply want one device, one OS, that does everything I want? Why is that a crime? Windows 8 opponents are always talking about choice. I think that Windows 8 opponents have no desire for any choice, any change.

Because you keep shoving it down our throats at every, single, solitary, opportunity.
Oh, and when someone says X doesn't work well because Y, you go out of your way to tell them they don't have 20 years of experience with it to appreciate it nor understand it as well as you do, and how you don't understand why literally EVERYONE is telling you X doesn't work because Y.

The same old same old.

Now you know how we feel about you and your "opinions", or should I say, PR statements.
heat, this isn't just wrench00 and I calling you out any more, damn near everyone on here is sick of hearing your elitist banter about how you "get it" and the rest of the world doesn't.

 

[BryanSTG]

So, the posters who are always first in every MS thread (even those with nothing to do with win8), rips on heatless even when he isn't in the thread, and proceeds to derail and hijack the thread, what are they called?

They're called prophets.

 

[Red Falcon]

They're called prophets.

Damn straight!
Because we know, the coming of heatlesssun, is absolutely certain when the sign of the great Microsoft is present!

Hallelujah!

 

[KENNYB]

3
2
1

Heatlessun, Tsumi ?

Oh where art thou?

Where are the White Knights of Windows 8 superiority?

Retorting for dooty suh! Wait, is the Win8 spank fest over?

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Damn... Shit just got real in this thread.

 

[heatlesssun]

omg
I'll let someone else take this one for me.

These are just technical differences, there's nothing for anyone else to "take" unless they have technical correction or addition to make.

Um, no, not even a remotely close analogy.
Office 2007 didn't have a built-in app store with a shit ton of added security holes.

When did UI differences become security holes? And do you have any specific security holes with Metro apps or the Windows Store to mention?

Anyone worth their salt in an enterprise environment would know this.
Makes me question the quality of your work and enterprise knowledge, Mr. MegaBank.

Mr. MegaBank knows this. Windows 8 could have your seal of approval on it and we would have never adopted it because we have been testing Windows 7 long before anyone knew about Windows 8.

So did Apple, before 2009.
That was my point, which obviously flew, right over your head.

Apple had a relational database engine before 2009?

I said that Microsoft is following suit with what Apple did, by moving away from enterprise and focusing more specifically on consumer-grade devices and services.
That does not mean Microsoft got completely out of enterprise. Read what I wrote!


In other words, Windows 8 is a jack-of-all-trades, master of jack shit.
Got it.

Azure, SQL Server, SharePoint, life cycle development tools, are still a big and important part of Microsoft. Ever integrate TFS into a continuous build process? People focus on the controversial, not the mundane, even in places like this. The tool that my bank adopted CB has more out of the box options for Microsoft tools and technology than anything else.