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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
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Yeah, the Silverstone units are 100mm. 130mm with modular connectors is a bit tight with longer GPUs in the M1, but it does technically fit.
wahaha360
Gawd
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wahaha360
Gawd
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So apparently High Power was showing a bunch of new SFX PSUs at Computex, with power ratings as high as 500W:
(source)
Interesting thing is the increased length over the Silverstone/FSP/Enhance units, which lets them get a 120mm fan inside. This is exactly what we were looking into a few months back. High Power (AKA Sirfa/Sirtec) is sort of a middle-tier OEM, so it remains to be seen how good these units are.
LMAO...I wonder where they they got that idea and design from.
We should get one for free and a send it with prototype 2 for independent review.
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That's a pretty attractive solution... I wonder about the quality and how easy it will be to grab one in the states. I was really hoping Silverstone would have brought more SFX or at least updated their existing line at Computex this year. The PSU is pretty much the only hardware piece that I'm still debating over.
wahaha360
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Can't take credit for the 120mm fan on SFX, that idea was out there.
PSU team at High Power know about the SFF community at [H]. I think this thread (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1749714) and people on the forum tipped the scale in favor of producing a prototyping.
PSU team at High Power know about the SFF community at [H]. I think this thread (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1749714) and people on the forum tipped the scale in favor of producing a prototyping.
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Forever in your debt for this one. The one change I was really looking forward to see.
Have you guys thought of a minimum number of cases that need to be ordered for the campaign to go forward?
I understand the added vents, totally respect the logo inclusion because it's a way of branding your product, and think that the dual a/c ports is very clever in terms of giving more options in terms of hardware configurations, but the serial for me is totally useless, specially if it's going to increase the cost. We already know the M1 is going to be produced in limited quantities. Is there really the need for a serial number? Are people really that shallow that they need their case numbered. You can have something special that was made in limited quantities or that was mass manufactured. I won't use the word stupid when it comes to including a serial number, but if I was to use one to describe that idea, that word would be the one I use. Sorry Necere for being this upfront, but this is one aspect of people's mentality I never understood.
So it will basically be like this except it is 1 cm shorter.
Don't think it will do, at least for me. Would have preferred a sfx psu with a good 92mm fan.
That one from High Power is basically an atx psu that isn't as tall as the standard ones.
Guess that idea of adding two cm to the height of the case doesn't sound so bad now. LOL
My understanding of it is that the more units ordered the cheaper each unit gets. I think though you have to reach certain tier level numbers to get the discount. For Example 300, 500, 750, etc., Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Btw I just pulled those numbers out of the sky just to show what I meant. Those are not actual or proposed numbers. I'm sure its something different.
i was thinking about the pricing once round 2 of indiegogo kicks off. i don't know if this would be possible within the scope of the campaign, but maybe they can set the minimum price per unit for 300. then you could have bonuses based on anything sold past that point.
for example, if 400 gets sold, everyone gets fan filter. if 500 cases get sold, everyone gets a custom serial number etc. that way you dont have the headache of trying figuring costs of the case based on the number of people who pledge. everyone buys one based on the cost to manufacture 300, but everyone gets a little reward if many more get sold. doesn't have to be fan filters/ serials etc, but those two have been mentioned before.
i dont know if what i described makes much sense
for example, if 400 gets sold, everyone gets fan filter. if 500 cases get sold, everyone gets a custom serial number etc. that way you dont have the headache of trying figuring costs of the case based on the number of people who pledge. everyone buys one based on the cost to manufacture 300, but everyone gets a little reward if many more get sold. doesn't have to be fan filters/ serials etc, but those two have been mentioned before.
i dont know if what i described makes much sense
Well, what you don't know is that w360 contacted several different OEMs a few months back about producing a higher-output SFX. High Power was one of the ones he contacted that was more receptive to the idea, and there were several emails exchanged over a month or so. The specs we gave them are basically identical to the units they're showing now: 500W+, length increased to 130mm with a 120mm fan, modular connectors, 80+ Gold. So it would seem to be a pretty big coincidence, if that's what it is.
Not that I'm complaining, mind you - we got pretty much what we asked for without having to do anything. if these are quality units, then it's great for the SFF community IMO.
MOQ is 300. That's something we've known - and talked about - since the beginning.
I think for a lot of people it makes it more special/unique/authentic. Maybe we'll make it a "stretch goal" if we get to 500 orders, or something. At the kind of volumes we're talking about, the discount isn't that significant. Those Demciflex filters run ~$4 each, and I'm not sure the discount we'd get from LL going from 300 to 500 units would even cover one filter per case, let alone two or four. But an etched serial we might be able to do.
Yeah, though with the PSU fan facing inward the cables would be close to the right side panel, so they'd have a little more room than it would appear at first.
Sure, but I think Grazina took issue with the added cost for something that isn't functional and doesn't (in his view) add any other appeal.
would a modular PSU at 130mm deep fit with long video cards. I know you said 140mm modular wouldn't.
Well, I don't know what you guys are expecting, but so long as it stays under $200, I am set and ready to buy. I've been slowly collecting SFX parts over the last few months.
I think you will have a good production run.
My point is this. When they make a Ferrari they make it and then finish it by a certain order, so number 33 was the 33rd car that left the production line.
Here, like on that video I posted about how Lian-Li makes their cases, there won't be that control. The plates that have number 001 might be placed on a case that has a top cover done on the last cutting, side panel that was from the second cutting, so you won't actually have the first case manufactured, so it seems silly to me, specially if it increases the cost. If you we're to tell me the plaque would say something like "Limited Edition - Only 300 Made" I would understand, even if I still think it's silly. But to actually number the cases individually is to me irrelevant because that was not the order they were made, just the order they printed the plaque. I don't believe lian-li would do that kind of rigorous control.
You might end up it the first case manufactured that has number 300.
I was hoping there were no filters included in the case. I know which ones I plan on using and they aren't the ones you have been using. That seems superfluous to me. Kinda like when you buy a case and they include a psu and you know that it is going to be replaced by the model of your choice. And I know most cases come with filters, but with so many options and this case targeting a wide variety of configurations I wouldn't want it to come with specific filters, specially if I know I'm going to change them. Once again, I think it adds to the cost if you include filters. Kinda if you decided to include fans like other cases do. No, we shoud decide everything that goes inside, even the filters.
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Phuncz
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But this isn't a 150,000$ Ferrari. This is a 200$ computer case. The cases aren't hand-crafted by a large team of Italian artisans with perfect sheets of the finest leather or carefully crafted carbon fibre. This is, for Lian-Li, a side-project in their mass-production daily business.
I think most people won't see it as the "xx-th one of the line" but as "one of the xxx cases made".
wahaha360
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100mm depth would limit the fan size and space for heatsinks.
I was told by people smarter than me that in order to 1) deliver modular 500W+, 2) 80+ efficiency and 3) quiet operations, 120mm fan & bigger heatsinks are essential. Then again, the same person was thinking 650W+ and 80+ Gold or better, so maybe at 500W it's not necessary.
I can see where he's coming from though. This whole project has been about striking the balance between form and function. The plaque seeks to add only form, and no real function to the case while possibly increasing the price. If we're talking a buck or two, I wouldn't mind that much. But if it pushes upwards of $10 or more, then I'd also be against it as well.
If you do a 123/435 it would makes more sense if you want to show that only 435 cases are made. If you see a random serial number like 253,nobody can guess the total number of cases made. The first number is kind of pointless, unless someone wants to play a number lottery to get the magic number 001, 007, 013, 666, etc, at the cost a plate printing, with the majority getting the crappy numbers. Also you're not going to get a beautiful whole number like 300, 400, 500 for the second number as well, so both number don't make sense for beautifying the case.
So I don't think it adds even form to the case, except for those who won the number lottery.
Of course if it cost almost nothing, I don't mind playing the number lottery.
Or is the purpose of the number to set some kind of seniority levels among donators, like "I'm the 13th person who donated/bought it, look at my foresight, I knew this would be a success?". (I know this will offend some people)
So I don't think it adds even form to the case, except for those who won the number lottery.
Of course if it cost almost nothing, I don't mind playing the number lottery.
Or is the purpose of the number to set some kind of seniority levels among donators, like "I'm the 13th person who donated/bought it, look at my foresight, I knew this would be a success?". (I know this will offend some people)
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I'm fine with 450 watts. Just want it to be passive and as high efficiency as possible.
The other way to look at a serial is just as a way of identifying that particular case, you know? For that purpose it could be any unique string of random numbers/letters. It's just simplest to start at a number and increment it for each one.
Anyway, we'll decide if it's even worthwhile to do once we have the cost.
Anyway, we'll decide if it's even worthwhile to do once we have the cost.
adamantium
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I contacted HighPower about the availability of their new 120mm SFX PSU. They said that it is on built-to-order status right now and that they are still working with a couple of US companies on quantity and a forecast schedule. They also said that it will be several months before it will be available in the US.
If enough people are interested, I wonder if there is a way to get an order in to them for the production run. Of course we don't have much on how well they work at this point, but they do sell a 500W SFX (with two 60mm fans) for around $49 through Rock Power, so maybe it wouldn't be too much of a gamble to do an order of the new model. Maybe someone wants to dig further.
If enough people are interested, I wonder if there is a way to get an order in to them for the production run. Of course we don't have much on how well they work at this point, but they do sell a 500W SFX (with two 60mm fans) for around $49 through Rock Power, so maybe it wouldn't be too much of a gamble to do an order of the new model. Maybe someone wants to dig further.
adamantium
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I also got word from Silverstone that they are working on a 550W SFX but that is all the information they can provide at the moment.
D
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Its everything we need
I'm sure they will get the fan right after all the flaming they got from [H] Well after reading all 172 pages, I had to register and comment.
What an unbelievable job Necere and Wahaha360, stunning design and a beautiful case, excellent form and functionality.
Recently I have been thinking about designing a custom mITX case, so I started doing some research and stumbled upon this project, which gave me a lot of helpful and useful information. I'm more interested in the slimmer and taller form such as the Alienware x51, Digital Storm Bolt, etc. but I'll most likely donate to this project because it's just...awesome! Great job guys.
What an unbelievable job Necere and Wahaha360, stunning design and a beautiful case, excellent form and functionality.
Recently I have been thinking about designing a custom mITX case, so I started doing some research and stumbled upon this project, which gave me a lot of helpful and useful information. I'm more interested in the slimmer and taller form such as the Alienware x51, Digital Storm Bolt, etc. but I'll most likely donate to this project because it's just...awesome! Great job guys.
I was wondering what the cable management is like in the M1 for an ATX power supply, is there room behind the mobo to route the 4/8 pin power and what about other cables that go to other areas on the mobo (can you make the wiring tidy?). I have read through all your documentation on testing Necere, and some of the thread but I don't have time to read through all 172 pages so I'm sorry if this has been asked before
I was wondering what the cable management is like in the M1 for an ATX power supply, is there room behind the mobo to route the 4/8 pin power and what about other cables that go to other areas on the mobo (can you make the wiring tidy?). I have read through all your documentation on testing Necere, and some of the thread but I don't have time to read through all 172 pages so I'm sorry if this has been asked before
There is no room behind the motherboard for cables unless you wedge them between the board and the tray itself. I suppose you could stuff some of the cables behind the front panel as long as you are not using the space for an optical drive or HDDs/SSDs though there still isn't much room. There is also a little room up along the case rails. Other than that there isn't much empty space.
I guess what I'm thinking is - I like this case allot, more than anything else in the mini-ITX form factor. Had been looking at bit phoenix and the sg08, and wasn't thrilled with either of them.
What I'd like to do is get one or more of these cases prior to the big sales event of the year - which tends to be around Thanksgiving in the states. Then wait and watch what others do with them - see what works and what does not work (and what needs some doing to make it work). And finally, buy my internal components on sale. So for me, if this kit ships in the September-October timeframe the latest, I'm very happy.
On a side note - seems interesting what Lian Li is doing with the hinged radiator mount for a 240mm rad. Two thoughts come to mind:
- Impressive that your design is being referenced by Lian Li - flattery is a good thing, eh? Definitely good for the resume.
- Wondering if anyone is thinking of modding the case to be able to do that - to add a hinge? (I'm assuming, and even hoping, that design changes are closed out by now) I'm not thinking of anything other than pre-fab water cooling for myself, but if I was going with a custom water-cooling solution, that hinge option might be appealing.