suiken_2mieu
2[H]4U
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Pics or it didn't happen.
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24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.
- Thread starter mathesar
- Start date
Pics or it didn't happen.
Do you still run 3x FW900? Do you have them in Surround/Eyefinity? Actually AMD card's cannot properly do 3x FW900 because there are no cards with three analog output's from the cards 400MHz RAMDAC. You'd have to get a DP to VGA converter and those have pathetic 164 MHz RAMDAC and allow very limited resolutions and refresh rates.
elvn
Supreme [H]ardness
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Depending on your desk, personally I would keep an eye out for wooden microwave cabinet stands or wooden night stand, etc so that you could keep your monitor face more like a LCD position at the edge of your desk instead of the crt bulk and footprint taking up your desk real-estate. That is assuming you don't have your desk butted up against a wall like a bookshelf of course. My 3-panel desk could prob get away with an fw900 being 50/50 desk/stand or 2/3 desk if I put it on the center part of the desk since that triangular piece goes much further back in depth than the side panels of the desk. Any crt's outside of that middle sit better on their own stand for me though, so that their screen face is at the edge of the desk.. If I were doing three FW900's I'd probably get another similar wooden night stand (or make my own wooden desk expansion stands) and keep one on each side of my middle "pie piece" part of my desk. No plans on doing that personally though, just giving my opinion/advice. The microwave or nightstand wooden cabinets tend to be very sturdy, and the width of mine is less than the crt housing. The foot base of the monitor just fits front to back on the stand's table top, and the sides have four inches to spare past each side of the foot.
It looks similar to this, and happens to match my desk height.
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-19219763312484_2196_1528972472
edit.. yep these are the ones I have. Only 25" high but I bought a desk that height on purpose so that I could use the entire surface with my keyboards and peripherals on top instead of using drawers.
http://www.amazon.com/Winsome-Wood-Table-Night-Natural/dp/B000NPSHUC/ref=sr_1_sc_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1329608055&sr=1-4-spell
http://www.amazon.com/Winsome-Wood-Table-Night-Stand/dp/B000NPTUGM
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..Its too bad you can't use all the outputs on the other cards when doing crossfire or trifire. That would allow three dvi outs if you used three cards but that's not how it works.
It looks similar to this, and happens to match my desk height.
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-19219763312484_2196_1528972472
edit.. yep these are the ones I have. Only 25" high but I bought a desk that height on purpose so that I could use the entire surface with my keyboards and peripherals on top instead of using drawers.
http://www.amazon.com/Winsome-Wood-Table-Night-Natural/dp/B000NPSHUC/ref=sr_1_sc_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1329608055&sr=1-4-spell
http://www.amazon.com/Winsome-Wood-Table-Night-Stand/dp/B000NPTUGM
.
..Its too bad you can't use all the outputs on the other cards when doing crossfire or trifire. That would allow three dvi outs if you used three cards but that's not how it works.
Last edited:
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defiant007
2[H]4U
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As for motion, here are two Samsung 120Hz panels flanking the FW900 in Eyefinity playing Skyrim "AFK camera spinning". The FW900 stays very clear and just look at the side monitors. FW900 will appear slightly darker due to the nature of the way it refreshes and camera capture.
Vega, you need to make sure that pic stays up indefinitely so I can link to it every time I have to have a discussion with some uninformed nob who swears black and blue that current LCD's are on par with CRT technology from over a decade ago
Vega, you need to make sure that pic stays up indefinitely so I can link to it every time I have to have a discussion with some uninformed nob who swears black and blue that current LCD's are on par with CRT technology from over a decade ago
I hear ya. The same noob's that go on my Youtube video's and comment on my 3x 120Hz Eyefinity setups and say "just get a large TV man" like that would be better.
It took me a long time but I am glad I gave the FW900 a try, now I will have 4-5 of them here shortly LOL. It's the classic case of you don't know what you are missing unless you try it. I'd wager that the overwhelming majority of "just get a LCD, CRT is junk" proponents have never set eyes on a FW900 nor even any quality CRT.
I hear ya. The same noob's that go on my Youtube video's and comment on my 3x 120Hz Eyefinity setups and say "just get a large TV man" like that would be better.
It took me a long time but I am glad I gave the FW900 a try, now I will have 4-5 of them here shortly LOL. It's the classic case of you don't know what you are missing unless you try it. I'd wager that the overwhelming majority of "just get a LCD, CRT is junk" proponents have never set eyes on a FW900 nor even any quality CRT.
Which is good, really, because, at least they aren't out there driving up the price of good CRT's. Beyond that, most people don't game at a level really requiring CRT's great response times. I have 3 FW900's, and I spend most of my time only using LCD, if all I'm doing is surfing or playing offline games. I figure, unless I'm playing competitive FPS, I should spare my FW900's the wear and tear of everyday use.
It kind of made me a little sad when I walked into the AcurateIT office and saw that every single person who works there has an FW900 on their desk. (The value of the FW900 is not lost on them) Using an FW900 all day just to post ebay listings and handle email....pretty sad way to use such a great monitor, if you ask me.
I don't have any LCD's anymore. I use the FW900 to surf the net when I am not gaming. It is actually very good for surfing the net as I can smooth scroll down articles and read them at the same time. Much harder to do with LCD's. There is no blur and the moving text is crystal clear. Once I have my 3x A+ Vito FW900 Surround setup, the side monitors will only be on for games that work good with surround. Every couple of months I will rotate the center display out to one of the sides to give it a respite. I think that should extend the life of all three pretty well. Plus I will have a couple of Accurate IT FW900's as backups.
I turn off the power switch every-time, install fans on the back to help remove heat and they run off a UPS so hopefully they will last me until OLED or direct-view LED comes out a few years down the road.
I turn off the power switch every-time, install fans on the back to help remove heat and they run off a UPS so hopefully they will last me until OLED or direct-view LED comes out a few years down the road.
At least a power button would be a simple fix.
I have a feeling that graphics card manufacturers will stop putting RAMDAC's on their cards in the next few years. That will hurt us CRT users. I haven't seen any Display Port or DVI-D DAC's faster than about 164MHz which is only enough to do low resolutions and refresh rates (designed for 1080P@60Hz). Current GPU's have 400MHz RAMDAC's.
ZeosPantera
Limp Gawd
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Stop hording them all vega!
I have three I rotate out every 2 months. I don't kill the power however. Maybe I should start. I figure the 4 months off I give each is respite enough. Also I had a fan on mine but found it needed to warm up fully to look its best. As long as you don't cover it or use it in a 90° room you should be alright.
LAGRUNAUER
Gawd
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Contrary of what the experts claim.... Not the case... One of my tips to prolong the life of a CRT is to turn it off when not in use. Repair outfits including the old Sony Service Centers wanted you to keep the monitor on and/or stand-by all the time... Leaving the monitor on stand-by still feeding power to the internal components increasing the wear and tear and diminishing the life of the unit. The power button is there for the purpose of turning the unit off when not in use. This applies to TVs, Radios, Stereos, and any other electronics including computers. If this wasn't the case, then the units would not had been manufactured with the on/off button.
Not being sarcastic, but as an analogy, if this was not the case, then go ahead and leave a vehicle on idle (stand-by) when not in use and see what will happen to it...
Hope this helps...
Unkle Vito!
LAGRUNAUER
Gawd
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As an alternative, connect the monitor to a switched APC and turn it off when not in used. Then and only then you can leave the on/off button of the monitor in the "on" position as the power supplied by the APC if it is a high end, will be clean and regulated and it will not damage the monitor with sudden peaks and surges.
Power button failures are extremely rear (I've seen a handful in my experience - most have been broken internally due to physical damage) and they are easy fixes. It is a one to one replacement of the entire BLOCK ASSEMBLY CONTROL (H BOARD), part # 8-933-439-00. The challenge is to entirely disassemble the monitor, discharging the tube first, and then ground it along with the PSU. Otherwise you'll short the tube and it is done...
Hope this helps...
Unkle Vito!
Pixel Eater
Limp Gawd
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Honestly I just used an Nvidia 8800GTX for two and a lesser, fanless 8xxx for the third and a ColorEyes and the DTP-94 to ring in the colors. Much to my chagrin I've developed an acute sensitivity to CRTs and am about to head over to the dark side via NEC's PA301W. Would I could even look at them I'd have them another 6 years or more! If I come across any pictures I'll post them.
LAGRUNAUER
Gawd
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You will be OK if you use all of them and turn them off if not in use. Add to it, keeping the unit in a smoke-free and dust-free environment, hooked to an APC or any high end power supplied peak/surge control box (UPS), not placing any electromagnetic gadgets around the tube or magnets, hardware calibrating the unit at least once a year (mainly for G2 voltage readjustment, luminance adjustment and color calibration) and not abusing the degaussing feature of the monitor, then it should last you a long time... I have eight (8) of them (some as as old as 2000!) that I use everyday on my workstations, that look brand new and they are as bright and clear as the day I took them out of their boxes...
No need to rotate if you follow these tips...
Hope this helps...
Sincerely,
Unkle Vito!
LAGRUNAUER
Gawd
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We tested and evaluated the entire NEC PA line including the PA301W-BK (and the SV model that came with the SpectraView II calibrator), which I still have in the lab storage. For the photography professionals who want the LCDs and are migrating from the Sony GDM-C520K Artisan... these are very decent units as alternatives to the overpriced Eizo ColorEdge units, but overall: they still can't beat the glass!
Hope this helps...
Sincerely,
Unkle Vito!
Pixel Eater
Limp Gawd
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Couldn't agree more. The FW900 will always be special to me and I stand by CRTs even if I'm allergic. They are beautiful and the world is not better off. I anticipate this year's sparkly antiglare coating and perhaps a hint of ghosting/input lag will be the first things making me nostalgic. Of course it's not without its strengths too. I think I'll survive, but man displays should at least try to catch up ;(
defiant007
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I think that is very much likely the case, and the reality that many uninformed users are just enamored with the form factor of LCD and over time have convinced themselves that the trade off in image quality and responsiveness is worth having a thinner, sleeker and larger display surface.
Personally I honestly cannot convince myself that even the best gaming LCD's come anywhere close to a decent quality CRT. The color reproduction, responsiveness, contrast and image clarity are simply inferior. For me those issues are exacerbated, because compared to a CRT, the pixels stick out luck a sore thumb making the image seem grainy compared to smoothly rendered images on a CRT.
I had an encounter with my FW900's weird screen rotation problem again. The on-screen image spontaneously rotated about 12 degrees counterclockwise after several hours of gaming, and could not be corrected using the OSD. The image still looks great; nice, clear, and colorful. But annoyingly tilted. This time, it occurred right after changing the resolution from 2304x1440 to 1920x1200.
This has happened twice so far in the past four days, with the picture returning to normal after a night's "rest". What the heck would cause something like this to happen; something loose inside? I haven't seen this symptom reported in this thread yet.
This has happened twice so far in the past four days, with the picture returning to normal after a night's "rest". What the heck would cause something like this to happen; something loose inside? I haven't seen this symptom reported in this thread yet.
Vito, do you think I will run into any problems putting my FW900's right next to each other for Surround? I mean right next to each other, de-bezeled with the metal tube casings almost touching each other. I've tested it so far and the only thing I've found is when one screen is on and you turn the other screen on, when it does it's de-gauss it makes the other monitors image wobble a bit from the magnetic field. Also, one of the monitors brightness adjustments seemed to act strange and do large "steps" in brightness and not the typical smooth gradient.
I've noticed the effect of LCD pixels too during my testing of the FW900 versus, PLS, IPS, TN. At first (since I was used to it) thought the LCD's looked better as they were "sharper" and you could see the individual pixels better. Then I got used to the softer CRT image and I like it better now, it looks more realistic and not as grainy and sharp like you said. This also means less anti-aliasing is needed on the CRT versus LCD's.
elvn
Supreme [H]ardness
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I like the soft image on crt, though a fw900 is capable of being considerably crisp with certain settings if you want it to be. LCD's can be tweaked quite a bit as well and of course you can see their pixels more if they are closer to you and vice/versa. I do like LCD's though, especially very high ppi LCDs.. just not their smeared motion - especially on the highest detail textures and depth via bump-mapping lost over and over in the smearing FoV movement arcs.
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.I also noticed when first using my fw900 alongside an LCD years ago that my eyes became accustomed to each screen and would automatically change their focus to suit each screen. That is, my eyes would look at each differently and would need a fraction of a second to adjust. Once my eyes/brain became accustomed to "how" to look at a crt again, it looked much better to me than at first.
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.I also noticed when first using my fw900 alongside an LCD years ago that my eyes became accustomed to each screen and would automatically change their focus to suit each screen. That is, my eyes would look at each differently and would need a fraction of a second to adjust. Once my eyes/brain became accustomed to "how" to look at a crt again, it looked much better to me than at first.
cinnamonandgravy
Limp Gawd
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to anyone doing 3x de-bezeled FW900s.... PICS PICS PICS!!!
something just sexy about a FW900 without a bezel. ive been wanting to fabricate a custom 'slim' black bezel as a side project... just never gotten to it yet.
...RAMDACs...
as a side note, i always thought my pioneer plasma handled motion extremely well, but just last month i put it next to my FW900 and played skryim on both via PC... FW900 was at 80hz (2304x1440), and the pioneer was lower (maybe even 60... it supports 72hz as well as 75hz). i had my character standing in place and it was snowing, and to my surprise, the plasma handled the snowflakes drifting across the screen much better than the FW900, just had this fluidity to it; it looked much more natural.
now i know refresh rates are not handled the same across all display technologies (60hz on a CRT is a different fare than 60hz on a LCD), and my pioneer display has some proprietary stuffs in it ('pure vision' or something, lazy description, i know. sorry), but i cant figure out why the plasma looked so damn good in comparison.
usually i hate 'enhancements' manufacturers use (LCD interpolation disgusting), so im not sure whats going on. could just be personal preference, but id love to know whats the driving factor for the plasma's perceived superiority.
i know this is kinda a shot in the dark, a bit off topic and even borderline blasphemous, but id love to hear if anyone could shed any light on this. sorry guys.
something just sexy about a FW900 without a bezel. ive been wanting to fabricate a custom 'slim' black bezel as a side project... just never gotten to it yet.
...RAMDACs...
as a side note, i always thought my pioneer plasma handled motion extremely well, but just last month i put it next to my FW900 and played skryim on both via PC... FW900 was at 80hz (2304x1440), and the pioneer was lower (maybe even 60... it supports 72hz as well as 75hz). i had my character standing in place and it was snowing, and to my surprise, the plasma handled the snowflakes drifting across the screen much better than the FW900, just had this fluidity to it; it looked much more natural.
now i know refresh rates are not handled the same across all display technologies (60hz on a CRT is a different fare than 60hz on a LCD), and my pioneer display has some proprietary stuffs in it ('pure vision' or something, lazy description, i know. sorry), but i cant figure out why the plasma looked so damn good in comparison.
usually i hate 'enhancements' manufacturers use (LCD interpolation
disgusting), so im not sure whats going on. could just be personal preference, but id love to know whats the driving factor for the plasma's perceived superiority. i know this is kinda a shot in the dark, a bit off topic and even borderline blasphemous, but id love to hear if anyone could shed any light on this. sorry guys.
to anyone doing 3x de-bezeled FW900s.... PICS PICS PICS!!!
something just sexy about a FW900 without a bezel. ive been wanting to fabricate a custom 'slim' black bezel as a side project... just never gotten to it yet.
...RAMDACs...
as a side note, i always thought my pioneer plasma handled motion extremely well, but just last month i put it next to my FW900 and played skryim on both via PC... FW900 was at 80hz (2304x1440), and the pioneer was lower (maybe even 60... it supports 72hz as well as 75hz). i had my character standing in place and it was snowing, and to my surprise, the plasma handled the snowflakes drifting across the screen much better than the FW900, just had this fluidity to it; it looked much more natural.
now i know refresh rates are not handled the same across all display technologies (60hz on a CRT is a different fare than 60hz on a LCD), and my pioneer display has some proprietary stuffs in it ('pure vision' or something, lazy description, i know. sorry), but i cant figure out why the plasma looked so damn good in comparison.
usually i hate 'enhancements' manufacturers use (LCD interpolation
i know this is kinda a shot in the dark, a bit off topic and even borderline blasphemous, but id love to hear if anyone could shed any light on this. sorry guys.
Somehow I don't think drifting snow flakes is the best motion comparison. Plasma's have higher response times versus CRT's (which are measured in micro-seconds). Plasma's response time, although much faster than LCD, is still measured in milliseconds.
Does your Plasma have frame interpolation? It could be introducing fake frames in there for the appearance of being smoother. With Plasma you are limited to 1080P. I would set the FW900 to 1080P @ 100Hz and compare again. I would try something like a fast camera pan or spin. You will not find anything fast in movies or TV as they are limited to camera speed because of display limitations. Something like the "AFK camera spin" in Skyrim if you have that. LCD's are horrible in that test.
Plasma's will also always have some amount of input lag, something that the CRT does not have.
I don't think 2304x1440 looks very good on the FW900 even with static images. I tried it for a while but 1900x1200 looks much better, at least on my unit. If you are displaying fast motion (games), 1600x1000x110 is better still.
elvn
Supreme [H]ardness
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A plasma tv uses backlight strobing so take its quoted refresh rate with a grain of salt. They are 60hz with 10 strobes per hz so they like to quote them as "600hz". They are still smoother looking in the end than a LCD but I don't think as smooth as a FW900 crt or maybe even a XBR960 widescreen CRT, perhaps somewhere in between. Some people see trails on strobing type effects too so that can be a problem. Any other electronic enhancements similar to those used on LCD's to get "120hz" involve frame doubling or generating an in-between frame which can result in some weird effects (floating-cutout, soap-opera effect, halo effect) and possibly artifacts. "240 hz" lcd TVs usually use a combination of the frame doubling and strobing .. 120hz + strobing. To be clear though I have researched plasma many times, I don't own a plasma so I can't do any side by sides so maybe someone else could chime in.
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Pixel Eater
Limp Gawd
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Plasma displays achieve quite good blacks by effectively blocking the power to dark pixels whereas LCDs actually exert the most power to "emit" blacks, twisting crystals to obscure light. However this limits Plasmas' ability to produce greyscale and hinders color accuracy, even though it looks good. In that case the FW900 still has the edge.
I always thought a good plasma's grey scale and color accuracy essentially match CRTs? At least that is what they used to say about the Pioneers.
Pixel Eater
Limp Gawd
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I'm afraid a serious photo editor would not ideally use a plasma at all.
I have a Pioneer Plasma and previous to that I ran a widescreen CRT for my console gaming. I really like the plasma and since consoles run at 60Hz I would much rather game on my plasma than have it hooked up to my FW900. For computer gaming though the FW900 is the way to go.
The newer LCD/LED 240Hz with sharpness settings are looking crisper than my plasma so the technology has improved over the past few years. I purchased the last plasma Pioneer made and the black levels were amazing back then. Panasonic makes plasmas that are as good as the Pioneer now so trying to hunt down a discontinued Pioneer is not worth the effort as long as you buy one of the higher end Panasonic Plasmas.
In other news last night I decided to remove the perfect anti-glare coating from one of my FW900s because the color was no longer looking as nice as the new ASUS LCD I purchased for 3D gaming. I am happy to say now the ASUS no longer looks better than the Sony FW900. If you game in a dark room which I do then take the anti-glare off. You will love it!
I'm curious why you use a LCD for 3D gaming. For me the FW900 works great and its nice to be able to adjust the resolution depending on how demanding the game is to maintain a high minimum fps. On the other hand my FW900 pops occasionally and the screen pumps more than it used to with white web pages, especially when cold. I fear it is in it's last year and I am not close enough to a repair center to get it fixed, so I have been keeping my eye on the ASUS 27" 3D monitor as my best option for a backup. Do you think it is a satisfactory replacement for gaming?
elvn
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I use a sony xbr 960 34" widescreen crt v for my ps3. Its 1080i / "720p" and has a hdmi input. Very heavy and so bulky that I keep it in a corner of the room. A VA lcd tv is in the same room for movies (samsung b7000 series - glossy). Of course the 34" crt screen could be larger but the input lag and ghosting/trails it avoids is well worth the tradeoff for console games.. I couldn't stand playing ps3 move gun controller games on the lcd it was so bad. Incidentally when I had a wii in the house the 480p on the crt made wii on lcd look like total muddy crap. The only thing I would change in the future is perhaps making a taller corner stand for the crt so that I could play stand up ps3 games with a better angle (while still being low enough to sit and play) since my current stand is low.
I don't like the ghosting on the FW900. Every game I tried had some type of ghosting and adjusting it out proved to be impossible. Also the screen is darker and with the glasses running I really had to brighten it up to play, and then turn it back down after gaming so I didn't want to burn it out from the high brightness needed.
The Asus has the brightview which is amazing. You turn the 3D on and you do not notice a drop in brightness. This is the best part about it. As far as a replacement, well if the game doesn't run in 3D then I am gaming on my CRT so I would not say it is a replacement.
I have played on quite a few of the 120Hz LCDs and since they are all TN panels they cannot compete with the FW900. Clarity and crispness of the image is nice and I think some games look better on LCD but for the most part the FW900 is the way to play. If you are happy with 3D on the CRT then I would not look at anything else. RAGE on the FW900 looks amazing and I love that in the options it gives you a choose of which monitor you want to play on. I wish more games would do this.
Anyone ever find a program that launches before your game and allows you to choose which monitor you play the game on? For now I just disable the LCD when I want to play on the CRT.
quantum112
Limp Gawd
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Just want to say how lucky you guys are to have this monitor working which is something I took for granted during the 10 months I had mine since I bought it. It's been broken for the past 4 months and a week ago I took it to the authorised Sony center for repairs, I paid all my savings (100$) to have it repaired and half that for gas to transport it, and the next day it broke again. Do they take people off the street to be repair technicians nowadays? I have no idea when I will be able to have someone (who knows what he's doing) look at it again. But for that money I could have ordered a flyback from Vito and fixed it myself, of course now I have nothing anymore. F*** my broke-ass college life.
elvn
Supreme [H]ardness
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Threw vega's fw900 + 23" 120hz in LLL eyefinity pic up on my web server since his imageshack bandwidth is exceeded. Hope he doesn't mind. Mine is an unlimited 1&1 internet service so should be fine. Hopefully I will be able to test something similar using [21.5" 60hz 1080p LED backlit] + [fw900 at 100hz 1080p] + [21.5" 60hz 1080p LED backlit] in the next few weeks.
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fw900-and-23in-120hz-sides_vega.jpg
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fw900-and-23in-120hz-sides_vega.jpg
ZeosPantera
Limp Gawd
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this is the first time posing a reply on this thread
i have 3 questions to those old users
i been using fw900 since 2010 and been using 1920:1200 60hz ever since with hd5870
i got tired of ati cards with the crt issues and was just about to purchase gtx580 for the better crt performance. i recently updated ati newest software and i was able to get 2304 1440 80hz wow
should i still go gtx580? cus i alrdy won the auction
do all fw900 have ghosting/trails when you move a white mouse cursor in the black back ground? or is it just mine?
how do i adjust the vertical pincushion?
thank you
i have 3 questions to those old users
i been using fw900 since 2010 and been using 1920:1200 60hz ever since with hd5870
i got tired of ati cards with the crt issues and was just about to purchase gtx580 for the better crt performance. i recently updated ati newest software and i was able to get 2304 1440 80hz wow
should i still go gtx580? cus i alrdy won the auction
do all fw900 have ghosting/trails when you move a white mouse cursor in the black back ground? or is it just mine?
how do i adjust the vertical pincushion?
thank you