Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Announced for release on 11/11/11.

It's potentially shorter than Oblivion, but certainly not short on the whole.
Personally, I just found less motivation to play all of the side quests whereas in Oblivion (and Fallout) I did everything under the sun.
In Skyrim I kinda got sick of the side quests because of how often you just got more money or a lousy weapon. Oblivion felt like the quests were less plentiful, but the rewards were greater.
Plus, the leveling tended to leave you with room to grow. Once I hit the late 40's there wasn't much motivation to do anything else. I capped the stuff I used and likely never will mess with heavy armor, 2 handed, alteration, etc.
 
Riddleofsteel said:
Looks chopped, but still cool.
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Not a photoshop, he screenshotted it from the game -- the back side is just normal paper and he snipped the sides a bit to give it a weathered look. It's a bit pixelated if you look at it really closely (my cell phone camera sort of sucks), since he had to blow it up to fit on the sheet of paper.

Just a co-worker who likes to pull pranks on people who leave their offices unattended :D. Three of us play Skyrim and we got one other dude started on Oblivion, his first TES game.
 
I broke down and bought an xbox controller for NBA 2k12. The other day I thought I'd try it on Skyrim. . ..

It does seem better suited on controller. While I don't like how everything is reduced to just a few buttons or how cramped my hands start to feel, I will say that it's easier to navigate the menus and stuff. I don't know whether I want to continue playing with the controller or what. It feels a bit wrong TBH.

I also started a cooky Mage character whose moral compass is completely shot. My Badass Nord had to retire due to health reasons and is now collecting a generous pension.
 
I played the earlier games (Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind) with a KB/M, but I'd say that the last couple and the Bethesda Fallout games have been just as good if not better with a controller.
They did a good job with appropriate button duplication, aiming, UI, etc.
In Daggerfall the ability to do different strikes was a pretty big deal, and the mouse swipes were all but necessary, but not really anymore.
 
Domingo said:
I played the earlier games (Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind) with a KB/M, but I'd say that the last couple and the Bethesda Fallout games have been just as good if not better with a controller.
They did a good job with appropriate button duplication, aiming, UI, etc.
In Daggerfall the ability to do different strikes was a pretty big deal, and the mouse swipes were all but necessary, but not really anymore.
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wait wait wait... what do you mean by different strikes?

Did they really move backwards with regards to melee combat from Daggerfall > Morrowind?
 
chockomonkey said:
wait wait wait... what do you mean by different strikes?

Did they really move backwards with regards to melee combat from Daggerfall > Morrowind?
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Daggerfall had heaps more stuff in it, in general. Climbing skill, languages...

Though, Morrowind had a sorta similar system of variable damage from type of weapon x type of swing. Skyrim is just max damage vs AC or critical strike.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Daggerfall had heaps more stuff in it, in general. Climbing skill, languages...

Though, Morrowind had a sorta similar system of variable damage from type of weapon x type of swing. Skyrim is just max damage vs AC or critical strike.
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Yea and skyrim's combat is boring as a result! I can't wait for a mount & blade style combat mod for Skyrim :drool:
 
chockomonkey said:
Yea and skyrim's combat is boring as a result! I can't wait for a mount & blade style combat mod for Skyrim :drool:
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I keep hearing about this...I need to finally try it.

Melee combat has always been terrible in these games IMO. I stick with ranged combat and avoid melee as much as I can. Magic complements it.
 
Mount and blade is pretty sweet, and it has a pretty robust modding community as well. It is almost more of a "medieval" sim.
 
zacrobmer said:
Mount and blade is pretty sweet, and it has a pretty robust modding community as well. It is almost more of a "medieval" sim.
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I feel that its age is starting to show, though. They really need to get Mount & Blade 2 out.. warband wasn't enough!
 
M&B is a cool concept but it does look outdated and the melee combat is pretty cumbersome IMO. It's kinda fun but a lot of the time you are fighting the controls.
 
MavericK96 said:
M&B is a cool concept but it does look outdated and the melee combat is pretty cumbersome IMO. It's kinda fun but a lot of the time you are fighting the controls.
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naw, it's just a learning curve... and the game is designed to the point where you can't really 1 vs. 5 up in close melee .... that is unless you can outrun them or your weapons/armor are very much superior.

Mount and Blade combat in Skryim with some Dark Messiah elements thrown in would take Skyrim to an amazing new level.
 
MavericK96 said:
M&B is a cool concept but it does look outdated and the It's kinda fun but a lot of the time you are fighting the controls.
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Parmenides said:
naw, it's just a learning curve
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Having never played and based only on these two comments, I'm more inclined the believe MavericK. I believe I also read something about M&B using mouse gestures? F that noise, no thanks. There are better ways to add depth to combat than mouse gestures, one of the most awkward possible combat schemes ever. JKII had mouse gestures for lightsabre combat and it was awful.
 
How do you do spoiler tags around here again?

I want to discuss something I've seen a few times in the game and it's going to require me to be specific.
 
JK2's saber mechanics are based on the direction your character is moving, as in WASD.
To perform attacks there's only one way to attack and that's with the generic left-click. The motion of your mouse doesn't dictate your swings. It's really the same as Skyrim is right now.

For clarity this is the game we're talking about: http://www.gamespot.com/star-wars-jedi-knight-ii-jedi-outcast
Off-topic, JK2 online is still (one of the few) best sword fighters. :) One of my favorite games of all time.
 
UtopiA said:
For clarity this is the game we're talking about: http://www.gamespot.com/star-wars-jedi-knight-ii-jedi-outcast
Off-topic, JK2 online is still (one of the few) best sword fighters. :) One of my favorite games of all time.
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Thank you. I don't know what you guys were talking about.




Anyways, I'm going to say that my biggest complaints with Skyrim go something like this. I'll keep it as spoiler free as I can.

This is just me talking. Be interesting to see if anyone else agrees with me on this stuff or not.


IMO:

There's an overreliance on betrayal swerves and there's a noticeable lack of being able to make a difference and impact in the game world IMO. Your character hits something, the body count racks up no matter what. You're a walking curse and certain people and groups would be/would have been better off if you'd never shown up.

I felt a distinct lack of satisfaction and payoff on some of things that the player goes through in this game.


I also felt like there were some quests and sidequests where the player should have an opportunity to save lives, make some kind of difference, or at least have SOME kind of chance at something...and it just was a complete downer and lack of payoff and it's like "Well, what the hell did I even bother for?"


Even certain sidequests you run across while exploring:
For example, I'm thinking about a certain light house in the north where something happens to a family?... Stuff like that.

I realize this isn't Polyanna fairytale time but it sticks out to me as a trend in this game.

It's noticeable enough for me that I hope some intrepid modders make some changes next year on some of the narrative with some of these quests.


I'll even go this far: I thought Oblivion's guild quests were more satisfying and balanced, especially for Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild.
 
Q-BZ said:
Even certain sidequests you run across while exploring:
For example, I'm thinking about a certain light house in the north where something happens to a family?... Stuff like that.
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Yeah, I did this. This is an example of why I stopped reading any diaries or notes except just to get quests/skill points. I was going around reading the diaries thinking that it might lead to something, but nope. Just hitting things with my sword, again. Cleared the place out, dropped all the journals on the floor and fucked off, unfulfilled.
 
UtopiA said:
JK2's saber mechanics are based on the direction your character is moving, as in WASD.
To perform attacks there's only one way to attack and that's with the generic left-click. The motion of your mouse doesn't dictate your swings.[/skyrim]

For clarity this is the game we're talking about: http://www.gamespot.com/star-wars-jedi-knight-ii-jedi-outcast
Off-topic, JK2 online is still (one of the few) best sword fighters. :) One of my favorite games of all time.
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Hmm. I'm not going to break it out just to verify this, but what you're saying makes sense. I guess it always felt like the mouse was controlling the attack types because I literally never stopped moving :p

It's really the same as Skyrim is right now.
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If only... I rolled an Orc two-hander after initially putting ~130 hours into a pure mage, and after 50 hours I'm already bored enough that I'm considering rolling again or just going back to my mage. Every single fight is identical. Power attack, block/bash-counter, repeat. Spam smithing if you ever want to get better gear, then get marginally better gear and go back to swinging. There's just no variety in the combat at all. At least playing as an unarmored destruction/conjuratoin mage I had plenty of opportunities to get creative. Summon some zombies, set some runes, lay down some walls, hell even muffle and summon a bow for a few sneak attacks.
 
Q-BZ said:
How do you do spoiler tags around here again?

I want to discuss something I've seen a few times in the game and it's going to require me to be specific.
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[.spoiler=spoiler button name]spoiler text[/spoiler]

Remove the dot
 
PrincessFrosty said:
[.spoiler=spoiler button name]spoiler text[/spoiler]

Remove the dot
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Thanks.



Jellylesg said:
Yeah, I did this. This is an example of why I stopped reading any diaries or notes except just to get quests/skill points. I was going around reading the diaries thinking that it might lead to something, but nope. Just hitting things with my sword, again. Cleared the place out, dropped all the journals on the floor and fucked off, unfulfilled.
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You got it. That's what I'm talking about.

If you've finished them, how did you feel about some of the guild quests and such?


I love this game. I wouldn't have pumped north of a 100 hours into it if I hadn't but there are some flaws to it.

Ideally, I wish the Obsidian-Bethesda combo would be "standard" when it came to making any of these kinds of games because Obsidian kicks the hell out of Bethesda when it comes to storyline, narrative, writing, and character development. The balance and execution on New Vegas was really well done.
 
I thought the Dark Brotherhood plotline was pretty cool and the stuff you got for a rogue type character was stellar - especially if you did the side quest to find the "ancient" versions of the DB armor. Short of enchanting your own dragon armor, it's probably the best stuff in the whole game for that style of play. I'm also a fan of the subsequent quests the game gives you once you complete it, too.

The problem with the Thieves Guild quests is that the rewards aren't all that great and the randomness to the quests from Delvin is just plain lame. When it's said and done, you have 2 separate plots with so-so rewards and not a whole lot to show for all of your efforts. Some of the missions rocked, while others were horrid.
 
Q-BZ said:
Thank you. I don't know what you guys were talking about.




Anyways, I'm going to say that my biggest complaints with Skyrim go something like this. I'll keep it as spoiler free as I can.

This is just me talking. Be interesting to see if anyone else agrees with me on this stuff or not.


IMO:

There's an overreliance on betrayal swerves and there's a noticeable lack of being able to make a difference and impact in the game world IMO. Your character hits something, the body count racks up no matter what. You're a walking curse and certain people and groups would be/would have been better off if you'd never shown up.

I felt a distinct lack of satisfaction and payoff on some of things that the player goes through in this game.


I also felt like there were some quests and sidequests where the player should have an opportunity to save lives, make some kind of difference, or at least have SOME kind of chance at something...and it just was a complete downer and lack of payoff and it's like "Well, what the hell did I even bother for?"


Even certain sidequests you run across while exploring:
For example, I'm thinking about a certain light house in the north where something happens to a family?... Stuff like that.

I realize this isn't Polyanna fairytale time but it sticks out to me as a trend in this game.

It's noticeable enough for me that I hope some intrepid modders make some changes next year on some of the narrative with some of these quests.


I'll even go this far: I thought Oblivion's guild quests were more satisfying and balanced, especially for Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild.
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It isn't really an RPG. This is why a lot of users voted it best Adventure game of 2011.

One of the lamest things I got from the game is that you are "The Chosen One" of every faction you join. Not just Dragonborn, but you fulfill every prophecy you come across. The only choices you really have in the game are "do I do this quest, or do I exit dialogue?". You're never given choice to influence the story. It's a great world they've created, but even as the central figure, you never make an impact.

You also have testimonials like "I've never played an RPG, only CoD, but this is teh best game ever made!!". What's the target market here? I've played some 110 hours motivated solely by the adventure exploration aspect. Sometimes I get pissed by some stupdily broken mechanic, some terribly realized quest, or by a snow bear killing a frost dragon and turn the game off.

Final score, for me = 7/10.
 
Domingo said:
I thought the Dark Brotherhood plotline was pretty cool and the stuff you got for a rogue type character was stellar - especially if you did the side quest to find the "ancient" versions of the DB armor. Short of enchanting your own dragon armor, it's probably the best stuff in the whole game for that style of play. I'm also a fan of the subsequent quests the game gives you once you complete it, too.

The problem with the Thieves Guild quests is that the rewards aren't all that great and the randomness to the quests from Delvin is just plain lame. When it's said and done, you have 2 separate plots with so-so rewards and not a whole lot to show for all of your efforts. Some of the missions rocked, while others were horrid.
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DB quest arc was "fun", but honestly insulting. Complete 3 contracts, suddenly you're the *Spoiler*.

Then there is the Mage's College... you can complete that questline without being a spellcaster. What the fuck?
 
LeninGHOLA said:
DB quest arc was "fun", but honestly insulting. Complete 3 contracts, suddenly you're the *Spoiler*.

Then there is the Mage's College... you can complete that questline without being a spellcaster. What the fuck?
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LOL

Be everything, do everything, mean nothing.
 
I kind of wish this game handled NPCs like Morrowind did in the fact that anyone could be killed at any time. If you killed someone related to the main quest line you'd get a message that the main plot was broken so you could reload if you wanted to keep it together.

It would be great if you could choose a civil war faction and just lay waste to their commanding officers and win the war, or at least influence it in a dramatic way.

Obsidian does very well with story up until you get close to the end, at which point the writers seem to get completely lost (speaking from playing many of their games but haven't tried FNV yet). Technically they're crap. What would be really good is if Bethesda hired some very good and well respected novel writers to direct the story.

I know these games are all about being "the one" but it would be fantastic if you had a real chance for failure in areas/factions not realted to the main quest/prophecy. Totally both a job for the Thieves Guild? You're booted out unless you can find soem way to earn your way back in.
 
Sabrewulf165 said:
Having never played and based only on these two comments, I'm more inclined the believe MavericK. I believe I also read something about M&B using mouse gestures? F that noise, no thanks. There are better ways to add depth to combat than mouse gestures, one of the most awkward possible combat schemes ever. JKII had mouse gestures for lightsabre combat and it was awful.
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I got used to the mouse gestures in M&B really quickly, and it actually felt great that you could choose an overhanded attack, left or right, a lunge attack, plus all those varieties of blocking as well. Like someone else said, this style + some Dark Messiah would be soo incredibly sexy.

I'm not in love with mouse gestures by any means, but it worked for M&B. If someone has a better way of controlling it while keeping the same depth, i'd be all for it!
 
QB-Z, i feel you bro. Lenin's Ghola also... couldn't agree more with both of you.

This game is amazing while you're adventuring and exploring... but when it comes down to trying to role play ANYTHING, you are suddenly left feeling so incredibly unfulfilled.

That's my biggest complaint--with the endless quests they boast, there aint a single reason i can think of to do any of them.

Add to that how you never get any good gear out of anything that isn't a tradeskill, and well poop.
 
chockomonkey said:
QB-Z, i feel you bro. Lenin's Ghola also... couldn't agree more with both of you.

This game is amazing while you're adventuring and exploring... but when it comes down to trying to role play ANYTHING, you are suddenly left feeling so incredibly unfulfilled.

That's my biggest complaint--with the endless quests they boast, there aint a single reason i can think of to do any of them.

Add to that how you never get any good gear out of anything that isn't a tradeskill, and well poop.
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I was pretty happy with the armors I got at the end of Thieves and Dark Brotherhood. I'm sticking with Light Armor so that was great for me.


Here's an easy example of what I mean and I don't think this is spoiler: You come into these factions and they're all about getting better, getting back to kicking ass, etc. etc.

I wanted to help contribute to that and SEE it happen and SEE results.

Let's say I run x number of theives missions and I kick ass. I should see more for my troubles than some trinkets on a shelf. I wanted to do what they say: Build them back up and make them better and SEE obvious results.

I guess the modders can ultimately do that with the Creation Kit and SKSE. Expand and continue quests that allow me to actually build those groups up and make them better.


Here's Oblivion:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=41090

Brand new Dark Brotherhood quest mod. For its own faults, Oblivion had better guild quests and overall sense of satisfaction for me. I'll probably fire up Oblivion again soon to play that mod. Look at that.

That's what the modders are going to have to do with Skyrim's guilds as well because they're over with too soon and just nearly satisfying enough. There's no point in doing any of the "radiant AI sidequest" because it doesn't make any damned difference.

The Fallout games, and especially New Vegas, also did this a lot better.

Enough things happen in the main storyline and uh, killing the Emperor in the Dark Brotherhood storyline that really should have SERIOUS impact on the gaming world even to the point that you should be able to affect and end the war the way you want and it just doesn't happen. C'mon!

Lenin you're right. I loved the New Vegas did it with factions. You could get better with them, get worse, have conflicts of interest, but never this become the almighty leader in a matter of days and lead every friggin' faction in the game nonsense. Morrowind definitely did this better, too, and that other poster is right. You could kill ANY NPC and if you made a mistake, then tough luck for you, and that's the way it should be.



Crega said:
Obsidian does very well with story up until you get close to the end, at which point the writers seem to get completely lost (speaking from playing many of their games but haven't tried FNV yet). Technically they're crap. What would be really good is if Bethesda hired some very good and well respected novel writers to direct the story.
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FNV did NOT have this problem. Bethesda and Obsidian mixed awesomely on that game. Obsidian owns Bethesda on execution of narrative, storylines, and characters/character development. I'm all for that tandem working that way from here on out on any of these games.

You owe it to yourself to try that game out. Steam sales are cheap. Go for it.




eggrock said:
LOL

Be everything, do everything, mean nothing.
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I hate to say this but that really isn't too far from the truth in this game.

I love Skyrim. It's a great game in its own right and obviously the 100 plus hours I've spent on it say something and I'm not an MMO type person and I haven't grinded...just adventuring and exploring...but if I had to sum the game's biggest flaw briefly you come pretty close to it.
 
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Personally I'm hoping that Bethesda is keeping a finger on the pulse and will try to improve the overall game with future DLCs rather than solely providing new content (though obviously I want that too)
 
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