The New EVE: Apocrypha

Most things related to fittings are not discovered by one person alone, discovery takes place across the universe, nothing in EVE stays secret for long.

The cloak+MWD trick is old, very old, and it's really never been much about that as most players assumed this to be working as intended since small and agile cloaking ships should have a reasonable chance to run a gate camp. For larger ships the cloak+MWD doesn't matter as they don't get far and can easily be decloaked. In addition, very few players actually fit a cloak on a battlecruiser or battleship hull.

The problem is with the game mechanic as such. Cloaking previously didn't cancel modules that work based on a cycle duration (such as MWD, rep, and ECM). What folks were doing is using a Falcon (or other ECM ship) to target a ship, enable the jammer, and cloak right away.

This allowed the skilled ECM pilot to reliably jam half a dozen or more targets (round robin) without any risk at all. Clearly that was not intended.

It took CCP a good three and a half years to fix it, but now they did. It's done, no whining will change it back, moving on.
 
im just looking forward to being able to reliably scram ships that are one class larger than i am.

for instance...

since the last agility change, its near impossible to catch a cruiser with another cruiser while it jumps through a gate (before it warps off). even sensor boosted, its still near impossible.

battlecruisers/command ships can get away from cruisers too without any agility mods. frigates and interceptors? forget trying to catch anything that small with anything short of a double sensor boosted inty. even then...

meh, this whole cloak = immediate mwd cancel is really going to suck. i think it'll slow down movement quite a bit, especially in 0.0

this is going to dramatically effect scouting.

the new trick is going to be stacking your lows with inertia mods to get your ship up to speed as quickly as possible before cloaking.

maybe nano's do have a future in 0.0 scouting :/

but seriously, whats with ccp constantly over doing shit. why modify agility values while simultaneously increasing scan resolution. why change multiple variables at the same time. ccp needs to really really really just try to see what happens when they slowly implement ideas.

blah.
 
Thuleman said:
Most things related to fittings are not discovered by one person alone, discovery takes place across the universe, nothing in EVE stays secret for long.

The cloak+MWD trick is old, very old, and it's really never been much about that as most players assumed this to be working as intended since small and agile cloaking ships should have a reasonable chance to run a gate camp. For larger ships the cloak+MWD doesn't matter as they don't get far and can easily be decloaked. In addition, very few players actually fit a cloak on a battlecruiser or battleship hull.
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People were arguing that it allowed ships not designed to run blockades to run camps, even up to BS-sized ships (when coupled with lag) and many BS have a spare high slot for a cloak.

The MWD/cloak trick is either gone or bugged to work even easier since apparently on SiSi decloaking(?) put your ship at full speed immediately and let you warp even easier.

This is the third change since I started playing (counting Apocrypha, 1.1 and 1.2). Do they always roll out changes this frequently?
 
I'll miss the MWD+Cloak thing, but honestly, you shouldn't be able to travel at 1000m/s while cloaked.
 
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I just love CCP. I trained for tech2 cruises and then bombers get torps. I train for recons and mwd+cloak gets nerfed. Since Ill be starting to train for HACs, they will be nerfed next.
 
WarriorX said:
I just love CCP. I trained for tech2 cruises and then bombers get torps. I train for recons and mwd+cloak gets nerfed. Since Ill be starting to train for HACs, they will be nerfed next.
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Then stop traning for the obvious? ;)
 
It seems that the change may be shortlived, yet chock full of emo.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1071925&page=2#52

Hi folks, firstly an apology from all of us for screwing up and letting this slip through the cracks despite many of you trying very hard to indicate the serious gameplay fallout in the threads you linked previously . This started out life as a minor defect where a code fix was made to stop the ECM jamming continuing to work after you had cloaked.

The intention was for only this to be fixed, however as many of you are now acutely aware, the fallout from that supposedly minor defect fix to a single issue is rather massive and game breaking for many. This was very much not an intended gameplay change from us.

The change that caused this to all happen is being reverted at the earliest possible opportunity with a hotfix (no ETA yet) but we will make this right as soon as possible.
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Depending on the fix, this may be taken as an official acknowledgement by CCP that cloak+MWD is a valid tactic. After reading pages of forum posts I'm just glad I know how it works. :)
 
eggrock said:
It seems that the change may be shortlived, yet chock full of emo.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1071925&page=2#52



Depending on the fix, this may be taken as an official acknowledgement by CCP that cloak+MWD is a valid tactic. After reading pages of forum posts I'm just glad I know how it works. :)
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Well technically inertia plays a big part, if you fire your engines in space and it propels you forward, cloaking isn't going to make your inertia disappear.
 
just as a funny funny haha side note...

i was talking to some dudes who know some dudes who happens to be a dude that is a developer for ccp, and he said this:

CCP cannot rollback the server(s) for eve. trying to rollback the entire database to fix a problem would potentially break the entire game, and as such, CCP is "afraid" to try it.

that means that when something so terribly game breaking happens, the game will most likely completely crash in onto itself, and the game will be over.

they have perviously rolled the servers back to an earlier date on very small and very specific nodes, and even that has caused some unforseen problems.

i just think its funny that the game has grown so large and has become so unmanigable that the idea of trying to go back to a 'restore point' is terrifying for the devs.

this is what happens when you start with semi-half-assed code, and try to build on and patch it instead of re-writing and rebuilding it from the ground up.

that said, i love the game, and ill be playing this half ass broken piece of shit boat on traintracks until it derails and falls off the top of a building and crushes schoolbusses filled with children on the ground... with lcd tv's.

oh, and they are "fixing" the cloak = canel mwd effect due to the reaction of the playerbase. i endorse with this decision.
 
Apathy said:
just as a funny funny haha side note...

i was talking to some dudes who know some dudes who happens to be a dude that is a developer for ccp, and he said this:

CCP cannot rollback the server(s) for eve. trying to rollback the entire database to fix a problem would potentially break the entire game, and as such, CCP is "afraid" to try it.

that means that when something so terribly game breaking happens, the game will most likely completely crash in onto itself, and the game will be over
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Tbh, the bolded part is a dead giveaway that the friend of a friend of a friend is not a dev.

CCP had a small number of rollbacks over the years and they all went just fine, the bitching and moaning of players aside who just all happened to have officer spawns that got rolled back.

Database consistency is a problem, not just for games, but for any database. However, CCP has it easy because they have mandatory downtime during which a snapshot of the DB can be taken while the DB is idle.

The very fact that there is daily downtime is indicative of that there can be a 24-h rollback without any major issues (whining and drama aside).
 
just to clarify, the person is a dev. the words i used were just a phrase. and the person did say the words "afraid" in conjunction with "to rollback the entire eve database".

and dude, do you really think that one hour is enough time to rollback terabytes upon terabytes of data? i wont pretend to know just how much information is stored serverside, but im going to go out on a limb and guess that its a lot more than could be restored in under an hour... let alone many hours.

even just a couple % of 'database inconsistency' could cause some serious problems to the game thatt he player base would... well its stupid for me to get into any of this.

my point is --- the dev said they are afraid to try a server-wide rollback.
 
EVE has become this dumbed down version of it's self over the past 3 years. I miss the imbalance that use to be used so often in the RMR days.
 
I don't know, it's still pretty exciting out where I'm sitting. :D

TITAN CONGA

20090524192504.png
 
I'm right in the middle of the drone region wars -- and its constant action for me ;). CONSTANT. IRC FTW! :)
 
This game is so immense and the learning curve is so high. I've been playing the free trial and I still have no idea wtf I'm doing, and I've played just about every MMO out there. I'm not even sure if I should stick with it.
 
AppaYipYip said:
This game is so immense and the learning curve is so high. I've been playing the free trial and I still have no idea wtf I'm doing, and I've played just about every MMO out there. I'm not even sure if I should stick with it.
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That is a win...no whiny teens...
 
AppaYipYip said:
This game is so immense and the learning curve is so high. I've been playing the free trial and I still have no idea wtf I'm doing, and I've played just about every MMO out there. I'm not even sure if I should stick with it.
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I'm a big time gamer, and learn games VERY quickly.

That said, It took me about 1 month to get a grasp of what I was doing, and 2 months to really get a good idea of what I was doing.

I'm about a year in, and STILL don't know everything.

Stick with it, and at some point you'll start to grasp it all.
 
I could use a bit of advice.

I'm in the usual, noob-corp-decced-by-griefer-corp scenario. 3-man corp is attacking and I have the following problem:

- 2 months in game (3M SP, half in learning)

The attackers were flying a Stiletto and Rifter (dunno where #3 was). I tried heavy missiles and those were a bust even against the Rifter with its MWD on. My missile skills suck, his speed was high and I barely scratched his shields (and I had some +scan res mods fit). Same for the Stiletto which would have an even smaller sig radius due to its MWD penalty reductions.

If they're still flying frigs when I see them next I'd like to have some sort of chance against them. My thinking is this:

- Fly a cruiser
- If there's 2 of them, fit a stab on to force at least one into scram range to stop me from warping off, then scram to kill the MWD and hit it with a medium neut (or maybe 2 of them) to kill their cap.

That will only work if a neut kills cap instantly instead of draining slowly through the cycle. Does it? Is this a stupid idea? Any other ideas?

I'll probably be solo since my beloved corpmates are suffering from logoffski. :rolleyes: To be fair, most of them have less SP than I do and they're nearly all miners. But screw them, I'm getting nothing from this corp except "who wants to go chew rock" converstation. You'd think they could at least organize heavy production of disposable ships in case they get decced (noob mining corp in noobish mining alliance = plentiful decs.) As soon as this dec is finished I'm on my own... or maybe they can attract more decs so I can get experience. The only real problem with that is that my skills are so low right now.
 
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eggrock said:
I could use a bit of advice.

I'm in the usual, noob-corp-decced-by-griefer-corp scenario. 3-man corp is attacking and I have the following problem:

- 2 months in game (3M SP, half in learning)

The attackers were flying a Stiletto and Rifter (dunno where #3 was). I tried heavy missiles and those were a bust even against the Rifter with its MWD on. My missile skills suck, his speed was high and I barely scratched his shields (and I had some +scan res mods fit). Same for the Stiletto which would have an even smaller sig radius due to its MWD penalty reductions.

If they're still flying frigs when I see them next I'd like to have some sort of chance against them. My thinking is this:

- Fly a cruiser
- If there's 2 of them, fit a stab on to force at least one into scram range to stop me from warping off, then scram to kill the MWD and hit it with a medium neut (or maybe 2 of them) to kill their cap.

That will only work if a neut kills cap instantly instead of draining slowly through the cycle. Does it? Is this a stupid idea? Any other ideas?

I'll probably be solo since my beloved corpmates are suffering from logoffski. :rolleyes: To be fair, most of them have less SP than I do and they're nearly all miners. But screw them, I'm getting nothing from this corp except "who wants to go chew rock" converstation. You'd think they could at least organize heavy production of disposable ships in case they get decced (noob mining corp in noobish mining alliance = plentiful decs.) As soon as this dec is finished I'm on my own... or maybe they can attract more decs so I can get experience. The only real problem with that is that my skills are so low right now.
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Find a new corp. If they arent willing to help, then they are no use to you.
 
Everyone get into rifters/frigs, your issue right now isn't fitting it's numbers. Your corpmates probably think they have to be in great ships with expensive modules to win, when they don't. You just need more ships then them and balls. Or have fun wasting their time. If you know all the rules of empire it's actually near impossible to get caught anyway. Fit several stabs and have a minor buffer for ships with high volley damage and then just laugh and warp away. Then do it over and over and watch them rage all the while talking in local about them being afraid to engage and having no honor. The only thing that can stop you is a hictor with it's permanent point, but then if you have a mwd you can usually get back to the gate in time. Fly something disposable or a cheap hauler with nothing inside it but a bookmark labeled "HAHAHAHAH FAGS." Have fun with the war on your own terms.

Now on the flipside, all you have to do is ignore them and give them no kills and they'll eventually get bored. Blueball them and they'll go away.
 
WarriorX said:
Find a new corp. If they arent willing to help, then they are no use to you.
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I very likely will once the dec is done. They just decced the alliance so it should last for awhile.

OldPueblo said:
Everyone get into rifters/frigs, your issue right now isn't fitting it's numbers. Your corpmates probably think they have to be in great ships with expensive modules to win, when they don't. You just need more ships then them and balls. Or have fun wasting their time. If you know all the rules of empire it's actually near impossible to get caught anyway. Fit several stabs and have a minor buffer for ships with high volley damage and then just laugh and warp away. Then do it over and over and watch them rage all the while talking in local about them being afraid to engage and having no honor. The only thing that can stop you is a hictor with it's permanent point, but then if you have a mwd you can usually get back to the gate in time. Fly something disposable or a cheap hauler with nothing inside it but a bookmark labeled "HAHAHAHAH FAGS." Have fun with the war on your own terms.

Now on the flipside, all you have to do is ignore them and give them no kills and they'll eventually get bored. Blueball them and they'll go away.
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My corp is shitting their drawers and probably playing L4D and otherwise staying as far away from EVE as they can. There were two people logged in last night, me and a guy that got podded twice in hisec (he wasn't talking at all in corp chat.. lol.) There might be two people in corp that can fit a ship properly; the rest raced to BS to run level 4's and can't fit *anything* worth a damn, or they focused on mining and industry (and can't fit anything worth a damn.)

I don't want them to get bored and leave, I want to fight and make it interesting for them. If this dec lasts for months all it will do is get me experience. Losing ships and getting podded will suck if and when it happens, but there ya go, EVE is a rough universe.
 
My corp made the news today :). I'm in IRC (Intrepid Crossing), and we're having an awfully good time fighting in the drone regions against RA (Red Alliance).

3H58-R, Etherium Reach - Fighting between the Ethereal Crossing Coalition (Ethereal Dawn [ED] / Intrepid Crossing [IRC]) and the Red Alliance and allies continues unabated throughout the region. With Red Alliance currently holding half of Ethereal Dawn's four stations in the 6TT8-Z constellation, or "the loop" as local residents refer to it, the outcome of this war remains uncertain. Both sides are committed to a fight until the end; there will be no surrender, no compromise.



While there has been some relief to the embattled Coalition, Red Alliance forces remain firmly entrenched deep within Ethereal Dawn territory. Pressure was relieved on the Coalition when Majesta Empire [ME] and The Initiative. [INIT.] withdrew from the fight when SOLAR FLEET [SOLAR] appeared on the scene. The withdrawal of United Legion [UNL] due to the war in Immensea with [ATLAS] and Aggression. [AGGRO] alliances, also gave the Coalition a small respite.

Czech Lion of Best Path Inc. [BPINC], a member of [ED]'s High Command, states that forces currently arrayed against Ethereal Dawn and Intrepid Crossing include "Red Alliance, Voodoo Technologies [VIP], LUCKY LEAGUE [LUCKY], Red Army Alliance [REDAR] and Sc0rched Earth [BYRN]." Additionally, while [SOLAR] did act against some of the alliances that were members of the Northern Coalition, it is unknown if they would enter into hostilities against the Red Alliance as they are currently friendly.



According to Red Alliance fleet commander Bapp of Warriors Tribe [W.T.], forces are poised for the last push into Ethereal Dawn's capital system of 3H58-R: "When ED's towers in that system come out of reinforced mode there will, possibly, be the final battle for sovereignty." Although Bapp would not discuss the timing of any assaults, he tells us that has amassed a large force including several titans in preparation for the taking of the system.



Czech Lion doesn't see the loss of 3H58-R as anything significant; "we will have one less grouping point and can focus on smaller territories, until we have the power to get it back" Further he stated "it's a typical war of attrition...but that's what we chose and people don't have to worry, we will stay in combat as long as necessary; it's a challenge we are willing to accept".



While both sides acknowledge that there has been a tentative offer of peace from the Red Alliance, according to Czech Lion it has been categorically rejected. Specifically he remarked "the RA peace offer consisted of wanting to get two titans from us, which we happily denied", adding further that, "as can be seen that we are still in the fight, it is a thing of honor and self-respect to not just fold and be slaves. We either can defend it or not."

With the rejection of their offer, Bapp signaled that there would be no stopping for his alliance in this war, short of completely removing the Ethereal Crossing Coalition from null sec, stating that, "we already offered them safe way to end this war, but they said that price is too high for them and they rejected it. So, it seems like they want to die; we will help them in that way."

On this point both sides agree; there will be no peace. What started out as isolated border skirmishes has escalated to the level of a blood feud. Even if one side or the other loses their sovereignty, they are committed to the further prosecution of this conflict, as evidenced by Czech Lion's closing remarks "Even if we lose the space, we are in this for long haul; we are going to attack their space, hit their infrastructure, and continue the war to kill them."
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eggrock said:
I very likely will once the dec is done. They just decced the alliance so it should last for awhile.



My corp is shitting their drawers and probably playing L4D and otherwise staying as far away from EVE as they can. There were two people logged in last night, me and a guy that got podded twice in hisec (he wasn't talking at all in corp chat.. lol.) There might be two people in corp that can fit a ship properly; the rest raced to BS to run level 4's and can't fit *anything* worth a damn, or they focused on mining and industry (and can't fit anything worth a damn.)

I don't want them to get bored and leave, I want to fight and make it interesting for them. If this dec lasts for months all it will do is get me experience. Losing ships and getting podded will suck if and when it happens, but there ya go, EVE is a rough universe.
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Here's how I dealt with this in a corp I had just joined; Get everyone in T1 frigs with T1 non-named fits, and attack the fuckers like there's no tomorrow. Fit whatever you can, as long as it's CHEAP. Don't let your "I think I'm rich" members buy expensive named or t2 gear. Roam in the largest gangs you can get together, and just go for it. (Edit: It doesn't really matter too much what people are fitting, just so long as you're going in with something cheap. Ideally, you'll want to see who can fit webbers vs warp disruptors, but in a situation like this it's not really about winning. This is a chance for you to practice against someone who's intending to make some money off of you, and if you do it in the cheapest crap you can find you still get your practice but they don't get their money).

You have to ask yourself what they get out of War Decs. They get; Scared little noob players and the gear they drop when they esplode. If you start facing off in the cheapest hunks of spaceworthy metal around, they lose the second part.(or at least, it's not really worth anything to loot your ships/salvage the wrecks). Because you're standing and fighting them, they don't get a buch of smack-talking carebears whining all the time(Carebear tears are #2 behind isk in eve as player end-goals). I convinced my corp to take this strategy, and the war-dec got cancelled about a week later.

What's more, they posted on our boards and congratulated us for fighting back. They said most of the time, people just hide in stations, whine and cry in local etc. They had *respect* for us after that. Go earn yours.
 
If I can convince people to do that, great. But like I said, the corp is logoffski. 5 people on last night (the attacking corp was logged off.)

I've been fitting cheaply but I don't think ISK is a factor for this guy if this interview is in any way accurate. I think it's more about someone keeping himself amused.

Good news: The CEO has something like 500 kestrels and merlins each--there's something to be said for a mining/industrial corp. Now if we can get people in them...

Direwolf, that's good stuff. It's so cool that I'm in my little corner of the world and there's all this big shit going on with alliance wars and general null/low/hisec flavors, plus the changing economy and stuff like corporate espionage. This is far and away the most complex and interesting game I've ever had the pleasure of playing.
 
so i got hit by a pirate for the first time just noe

i'm ten days in flying around the 0.7 - 1.0 areas in my wreathe picking up purchases on teh way to picking up my crusier once i have enough money.

im half paying attention half watching a movie as for some reason my auto pilot decides to take me through some 0.3 and low and behold there is a pirate stargate campong the other side any way he cant of been very strong as it took him about a minute to destroy me and about 3million worth of goods

i cant blame anyone but myself as i should have checked my auto plot better but damn seeing the bastard zap my warp drive then hit on me was annoying as i had know chance of escape

to make matters worse he decides without warning to destroy my pod.

i didnt get his name but Myrmadon was written by his name i presuem this is his corp or something

yes i'm a noob vbut i have learnt my lesson the hard way i now vow to destroy the myrmadons
 
Myrmadon is a type of ship :). Its a Gallente Battlecruiser I believe, or cruiser, I forget.

For future reference, your escape pod has instant-warp ability, meaning there is no align time. If you know you're going to die, target a celestial object (planet for example), and keep hitting that warp key. You'll warp away as soon as you're in your pod, and he won't have the time to target (and therefore kill) you.

Theres also a setting in your autopilot that will avoid low-sec, so look for that. I think you have to open the galaxy map, and there will be a settings thing in there. Set it to 'avoid low sec' on autopilot.
 
Direwolf20 said:
Myrmadon is a type of ship :).
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haha said i was new

Theres also a setting in your autopilot that will avoid low-sec, so look for that. I think you have to open the galaxy map, and there will be a settings thing in there. Set it to 'avoid low sec' on autopilot.
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yeah i had been looking at the settings earlier must have left it off (must be more careful)

thanks for the advice on the instant warp im sure i'll need it again luckily i had a clone handy!!
 
okay so i have found the guys name its paelzer [LHOG] or similar he is hanging around in groothese (0.3) if any wants to do me the favour of taking him out :)
 
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Direwolf20 said:
My corp made the news today :). I'm in IRC (Intrepid Crossing), and we're having an awfully good time fighting in the drone regions against RA (Red Alliance).
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i think my corp is deccing IC this week or next. see you out there.
 
Okay, so some noob-ish questions, as I've gotten wrapped into this game as well.

Currently I've been spending my time ninja salvaging (yes I know some of you will hate me now, but hey, it is a valid tactic according to CCP). Best money I've been able to make at this stage, lacking the skills for higher level missions or whatever, and I'm really quite enjoying scanning down stuff. But... besides doing it faster, there doesn't seem to be all that much ability to continue increasing my profits, unless I started bounty stealing or something. So my real question is, once my skills and everything improve, what can I do with the scanning system that's more profitable than ninja salvaging?

Second question, I've gotten a bunch of random form recruitment mailings, which I've summarily ignored (not the least because I'm still happy in an NPC corp which can't be war decced, while I'm still a newbie and still ninja'ing), but I got one that sounds interesting, since they were actually talking with me and started trying to recruit me specifically after seeing me arguing with people in local about ninja salvaging (okay, mostly just laughing at the whiners, rather than true arguing...). Checked out their killboard, they certainly are active and all... but this is EVE, which is reason enough to be paranoid, usually. Should I just dismiss this, or should I consider it? More to the point, if I decide to join, what steps can I take to limit the odds of it turning out terribly?
 
First off, I don't ninja salvage and would hate someone who did it to me, but it is legitimate (even in RL) and that's why I live in the middle of nowhere ;)

Second, you can scan down exploration sites and plexes. This doesn't become really profitable until you hit lowsec or 0.0, and if you can't do lvl 4s you can't handle them (yet). But if you joined a corp you could scan down sites and ships for your corpies to do, and you take a cut in the profit. Never done it myself, but you'll figure something out. :)

Finally, there isn't a whole lot of risk in joining a random corp, if you are careful. Don't dump stuff in your corp hangers - keep everything in your personal hangers (Ships and items). Don't send them large amounts of money (over, say, 5-10mil). The only thing that a corp can take that you don't directly give them is taxes on missions and bounties. Since you work purely in the markets with salvage, that doesn't affect you. That said, corps are great resources and you can make some good friends. I encourage you to join a corp, for that's where Eve really takes off.
 
silentcoercion said:
Okay, so some noob-ish questions, as I've gotten wrapped into this game as well. if I decide to join, what steps can I take to limit the odds of it turning out terribly?
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fit warp core stabs. if you pissed me off, id try to recruit you and get you to fly something shiny so that i could watch it explode.

you can probably find a better corp than one that is trying to recruit you because they think the smack is strong with you.
 
Your upgrade from ninja salvaging is ninja PvPing. You go from fitting salvagers to actual guns and go out and KILL PEOPLE MISSION RUNNING. It's hugely satisfying and leaves you with some fantastic gear if all goes to plan! If it doesn't, however, then you're pretty well hosed. It's upping the stakes... either you play it safe(r) or you go for glory!
 
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