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Arrow Lake 2024 (and beyond)

Krypton said:
I bought my 12700K and Z690 combo used off of Marketplace for $225 a year ago, and reused 64GB of DDR4 3200... I really have not needed more CPU yet (not a gamer)... but the incremental Windows and AI updates will ensure an upgrade is coming sooner or later with my heavy multi tasking.

I am sitting this upgrade cycle out, but waiting to see what happens next year... especially with the Nvidia release.
Click to expand...
With your 24 threads Isn't multitasking covered along with 64GB of RAM? Do you need more? Seems like more than enough performance. What do you need more power for?
 
xDiVolatilX said:
With your 24 threads Isn't multitasking covered along with 64GB of RAM? Do you need more? Seems like more than enough performance. What do you need more power for?
Click to expand...

12700k is actually 20 threads...

100 chrome tabs, tons of other apps open at the same time and occasional VMs

As I said, I am fine for now.. but things always slow down over time as Microsoft (and I) always find new ways to consume available CPU.. I do see myself dropping in a 14700K (28 threads) possibly at some point if the price is right. I am slightly starting to notice that I could use a little more thread handling. About to upgrade monitors to dual 4K and HDR will add to the CPU tax.

and with all that, I do want to see how the Nvidia release goes and see if ARM really takes hold this time. We all could be getting off of X86 in 2026 to chase the next big thing as long as software and mass support materialize.
 
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chameleoneel said:
Hallock said it would be a combination of microcode, drivers, and Windows.

**Its also interesting that microcode is supposedly 0x114. Asrock just released 0x113 for my board, yesterday.
https://pg.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z890I Nova WiFi/index.asp#BIOS
Click to expand...
Details from the overclock.net forum.. clearly states 0x114 however posters are saying not all the bios is available so the are apparently patching in just 0x114 piece.

https://www.overclock.net/threads/a...812427/page-51?post_id=29401900#post-29401900
 
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I booted mine up today and installed Windows. Of course it gave me a scare. Damned thing wouldn't light up a monitor connected over HDMI and the white light on my board came on indicating graphics failure. Mucked around a bit and plugged a USB-C to DP adapter into one of the USB4 ports and used a DP cable and boom, everything works. WTF. I suppose I ought to try HDMI again now that I've flashed the BIOS.
 
zandor said:
I booted mine up today and installed Windows. Of course it gave me a scare. Damned thing wouldn't light up a monitor connected over HDMI and the white light on my board came on indicating graphics failure. Mucked around a bit and plugged a USB-C to DP adapter into one of the USB4 ports and used a DP cable and boom, everything works. WTF. I suppose I ought to try HDMI again now that I've flashed the BIOS.
Click to expand...
My ASRock B560M-HDV would only show video through the DVI or VGA ports once I flashed the BIOS with an HDMI cable (never tried the display port).
 
chameleoneel said:
Asrock released a full BIOS with the 0x114 microcode for my motherboard.
Click to expand...
Same thing for my Steel Legend. It's also a Beta. I probably won't get around to doing anything with it until after Christmas. Hopefully it'll be GA by then.
 
It will be interesting to see if there is any difference in the FF14 benchmark, which is one of Arrowlake's worst case scenarios. Even though its supposedly certified for APO.
 
kalston said:
AL was really really not ready for launch.
Click to expand...
I did write a comment once stating the tech industry was going too fast and producing too many glitches etc. Several people on here defended the industry commenting like it was business as usual.
 
wandplus said:
I did write a comment once stating the tech industry was going too fast and producing too many glitches etc. Several people on here defended the industry commenting like it was business as usual.
Click to expand...
They did take the take your time, cancel the product launch and push it a full year back. I am not sure if Intel issues in the last 5 years have been innovation and speed of improvement being too fast, many would say they have been late at every corner including this, that should have been a 2023 launch.
 
chameleoneel said:
Hallock is back again, to talk about Arrow Lake updates:



View: https://www.youtube.com/live/M6rwTGJTcOQ?si=AbGDph5SSCP0sovG



There is still an ME version update we are waiting for.
Click to expand...


  • These two test runs (purple bars) were added on Dec 20th, after the article was published:
  • 24H2 / Dec Patches / uCode 0x114: Test run with ASUS BIOS 1203, which includes the new 0x114 microcode that according to Intel adds a few percent in additional performance. This BIOS also updates the ME version to 1827.
  • 24H2 / Dec Patches / uCode 0x114 / ME: An additional test run with the newest Intel ME firmware version (1854) manually flashed to the motherboard.
Per the intro.

Edit - double checked Intel's post about the Arrow Lake fixes, and those are all accounted for. So it appears that this is the end result, barring some magic beyond the new BIOS stability update coming in January.
 
Last edited:
arestavo said:
  • These two test runs (purple bars) were added on Dec 20th, after the article was published:
  • 24H2 / Dec Patches / uCode 0x114: Test run with ASUS BIOS 1203, which includes the new 0x114 microcode that according to Intel adds a few percent in additional performance. This BIOS also updates the ME version to 1827.
  • 24H2 / Dec Patches / uCode 0x114 / ME: An additional test run with the newest Intel ME firmware version (1854) manually flashed to the motherboard.
Per the intro.

Edit - double checked Intel's post about the Arrow Lake fixes, and those are all accounted for. So it appears that this is the end result, barring some magic beyond the new BIOS stability update coming in January.
Click to expand...
So is the tldr average gaming a few % ?
 
arestavo said:
  • These two test runs (purple bars) were added on Dec 20th, after the article was published:
  • 24H2 / Dec Patches / uCode 0x114: Test run with ASUS BIOS 1203, which includes the new 0x114 microcode that according to Intel adds a few percent in additional performance. This BIOS also updates the ME version to 1827.
  • 24H2 / Dec Patches / uCode 0x114 / ME: An additional test run with the newest Intel ME firmware version (1854) manually flashed to the motherboard.
Per the intro.

Edit - double checked Intel's post about the Arrow Lake fixes, and those are all accounted for. So it appears that this is the end result, barring some magic beyond the new BIOS stability update coming in January.
Click to expand...
There is a new ME firmware update coming in January, which Hallock says is the last bit of "sauce" for now. And has a gaming performance focus.

CSME Firmware Kit 19.0.0.1854v2.2

It also requires the 0x114 microcode, which is starting to be available, now.


Hallock also stressed we should be running their APO software, for supported games.
 
chameleoneel said:
There is a new ME firmware update coming in January, which Hallock says is the last bit of "sauce" for now. And has a gaming performance focus.

CSME Firmware Kit 19.0.0.1854v2.2

It also requires the 0x114 microcode, which is starting to be available, now.


Hallock also stressed we should be running their APO software, for supported games.
Click to expand...
Per the link:

"Hi,

v2.2 is an Intel release versioning, this only indicates sub-firmware update and/or Intel SSE (Silicon Security Engine) plugin sub-firmware (knowing that I do not show you the Intel SSE plugin sub-firmwares usually in the thread/update post which are also updated over the versions) since the initial 19.0.0.1854 release (so v1.0).

The version I offer in my thread is the most recent to date available for the motherboards manufacturers with the PR5 Kit (Planning Release 5), I cannot tell you which Intel release versioning it corresponds to or if Intel plans another update of the sub-firmwares and/or the SSE plugin sub-firmwares by January 2025 (but don't expect any improvement with a sub-firmware update, only bug fixes). I myself offered 2 different versions of 19.0.0.1854 in my thread (in red the updated sub-firmware/SSE plugin sub-firmware) :"

So, it doesn't look like it's going to be a newer version than what the motherboard manufacturers have right now and are working on validating for release, and that newer sub-version was used for those tests.

Again, maybe Intel has some magic sauce still to come that will elevate the 285K above the 14900K for gaming. It doesn't look like it, though.
 
arestavo said:
Per the link:

"Hi,

v2.2 is an Intel release versioning, this only indicates sub-firmware update and/or Intel SSE (Silicon Security Engine) plugin sub-firmware (knowing that I do not show you the Intel SSE plugin sub-firmwares usually in the thread/update post which are also updated over the versions) since the initial 19.0.0.1854 release (so v1.0).

The version I offer in my thread is the most recent to date available for the motherboards manufacturers with the PR5 Kit (Planning Release 5), I cannot tell you which Intel release versioning it corresponds to or if Intel plans another update of the sub-firmwares and/or the SSE plugin sub-firmwares by January 2025 (but don't expect any improvement with a sub-firmware update, only bug fixes). I myself offered 2 different versions of 19.0.0.1854 in my thread (in red the updated sub-firmware/SSE plugin sub-firmware) :"

So, it doesn't look like it's going to be a newer version than what the motherboard manufacturers have right now and are working on validating for release, and that newer sub-version was used for those tests.

Again, maybe Intel has some magic sauce still to come that will elevate the 285K above the 14900K for gaming. It doesn't look like it, though.
Click to expand...
Hallock and Intel's breakdown of the fixes, state the upcoming ME firmware is still in testing at Intel. Board partners do not yet have it.

And W1zzard from TPU is made aware of this in the comments.

TPU's article does not show results with this upcoming firmware. As it would be impossible for TPU to have it.


I'm not saying Arrowlake is going to end up better than Raptor Lake. I'm saying, not all of the main fixes are out yet. And we should wait for final judgment, with that.

That said.....overall, these seem mostly like consistency fixes. Rather than true performance improvements. And Arrowlake still has a latency issue, which can be a problem in many games.

Cyberpunk patched in some huge Arrowlake gains, though. It may turn out this arch isn't great for general gaming use. And may need more game specific optimization than usual.
 
chameleoneel said:
There is a new ME firmware update coming in January, which Hallock says is the last bit of "sauce" for now. And has a gaming performance focus.

CSME Firmware Kit 19.0.0.1854v2.2

It also requires the 0x114 microcode, which is starting to be available, now.


Hallock also stressed we should be running their APO software, for supported games.
Click to expand...
Asrock has started distributing a beta bios with CSME Firmware Kit 19.0.0.1854v2.2


https://pg.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z890I Nova WiFi/index.asp#BIOS

It says 12/26. But was only posted in the last day or two (I've been checking almost every day).
 
zandor said:
ASRock just yanked the 0x114 microcode beta BIOS for my Steel Legend. Now there's a beta with 0x116 dated yesterday. I haven't managed to find out much about 0x116. Here's all I could find on it: https://wccftech.com/msi-releases-intel-microcode-0x116-for-various-z890-and-b860-motherboard/ Looks like it's largely a patch for non-K parts and 64GB DIMMs.
Click to expand...
I installed it a few days ago!

I noticed no performance improvement for my 265k in the FF14 benchmark (one of Arrowlake's worst case scenarios). Otherwise....its fine all around. I think my memory latency dropped about 7ms. But I didn't actually screenshot my results on the previous BIOS. So my memory could be unreliable.

**I do feel like the main two P-Cores are hitting higher peak temps. It may be that they changed the scheduling to emphasize them more. So they are heating more.
 
Anyone have a good tuning/OC guide for these things?
 
LigTasm said:
Anyone have a good tuning/OC guide for these things?
Click to expand...
Since Arrowlake isn't very popular, there hasn't been much.

Seems like Skatterbencher's (youtube) full length OC video, is the only real detailed guide. Otherwise, its skattered info, such as Derbauer's short testing in his review video, etc. And then whatever details you can pickup from random threads on Reddit or overclock.net
https://www.overclock.net/threads/o...245k-etc-results-bins-and-discussion.1811860/

https://www.overclock.net/threads/optimizing-arrow-lake-for-power-efficiency.1814381/


This thread has a ton of fine grain detail. But.....doesn't offer any ideas about what might be good starting settings or a low hanging fruit easy OC, sort of thing.

https://www.overclock.net/threads/s...ready-to-overclock-like-never-before.1812707/


My own 265k can OC to all cores the same speed as the best two cores. And +300 to the e-cores. With no added voltage. It does increase heat a lot, though. I haven't messed with any of other things to overclock. Which apparently are actually more beneficial to gaming performance. As OCing the connection between chiplets, etc, can lower memory latency a lot.
 
chameleoneel said:
Since Arrowlake isn't very popular, there hasn't been much.

Seems like Skatterbencher's (youtube) full length OC video, is the only real detailed guide. Otherwise, its skattered info, such as Derbauer's short testing in his review video, etc. And then whatever details you can pickup from random threads on Reddit or overclock.net
https://www.overclock.net/threads/o...245k-etc-results-bins-and-discussion.1811860/

https://www.overclock.net/threads/optimizing-arrow-lake-for-power-efficiency.1814381/


This thread has a ton of fine grain detail. But.....doesn't offer any ideas about what might be good starting settings or a low hanging fruit easy OC, sort of thing.

https://www.overclock.net/threads/s...ready-to-overclock-like-never-before.1812707/


My own 265k can OC to all cores the same speed as the best two cores. And +300 to the e-cores. With no added voltage. It does increase heat a lot, though. I haven't messed with any of other things to overclock. Which apparently are actually more beneficial to gaming performance. As OCing the connection between chiplets, etc, can lower memory latency a lot.
Click to expand...

I’m going to fiddle with this later, thanks. I looked at OCN but the threads are so long it’s hard to find anything that isn’t a bragging post about being y-cruncher stable for 23 eons or whatever.

To be honest, I got this thing just out of pure curiosity and besides the 1997 level of difficulty getting windows and drivers installed properly without a black screen it’s more impressive to me than my 9800X3D, I guess because I didn’t expect much from it. It seems on par with my 5.8ghz 13700K out of the box with just 8000mt/s ram.
 
Another new bios and ME firmware is rolling out. My Asrock Z890 ITX doesn't yet have it available. But, some other Asrock boards do.
 
chameleoneel said:
Another new bios and ME firmware is rolling out. My Asrock Z890 ITX doesn't yet have it available. But, some other Asrock boards do.
Click to expand...
Asrock released the new bios for Z890i Nova Wifi ITX.

1. Support Intel Maintenance Release 1 (MR1).
2. Update Intel Microcode 0x117.
3. Improve Memory Compatibility.


I dunno what Intel Maintenance Release MR1 is. Must not necessarily be public info. Will apply later today.
 
Arrow Lake Refresh but just K and KF chips are going to made. I'll wait around for Nova Lake hopefully that will come closer to AMD offerings. It's going to be funny no matter what Intel does with Arrow Lake Refresh which will make Arrow Lake a dead socket after launch anyway.
 
chameleoneel said:
Asrock released the new bios for Z890i Nova Wifi ITX.

1. Support Intel Maintenance Release 1 (MR1).
2. Update Intel Microcode 0x117.
3. Improve Memory Compatibility.


I dunno what Intel Maintenance Release MR1 is. Must not necessarily be public info. Will apply later today.
Click to expand...
I downloaded this earlier, but didn't install it.

Asrock inexplicably took it down for at least a couple of hours.

Its back now. file name and size are the same.

.....guess I will use the "new" one!
 
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