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You can't tell a thing looking at pictures, its all going to come down to your screen material and your ability to control the light in your room. The Contrast/Black levels you see will depend on your ceiling, your flooring, the colors of furniture in your room, lots of glass/mirrors versus flat paint and on and on and on
So let's simplify it:
If you can't get the room dark, don't waste your time with any projector.....a washed-out Projected image is not > a smaller, brighter TV image. But a light-controlled projector image is a sight to behold.
I've stepped up through the DLP and LCD camps, now I won't waste my money on either tech, the only FP technology I'd bother with today is SXRD or LcOS, so Sony and JVC respectively, and up until recently input lag was a concern. $5 grand today, give it another 1-2 years and they will be in the $2000 range refurbished.
Having said that....if you have never owned a projector before......the standard LCD "4K ish" (they mostly use pixel shifting to achieve more of a 2.5k resolution....they aren't true 4K panels at that price point)....will probably impress you. But I wouldn't trade my 1080p Sony at this point...which is why I haven't.
I'm patiently waiting for Sony's 4K entries to hit the $2500 mark...probably refurbished....and then I'll buy in.
I have just given up on projectors after using one for years.
No projector can do HDR like a TV, and TVs are improving further beyond reach!
Projectors barely make rec709 (old school colour) let alone P3 and BT.2020, the lamps are nowhere near powerful enough.
This gets worse as the lamp ages, it loses power causing near white to become white if you want to keep the brightness up, bleaching out detail.
And black is only as black as the light in your room.
Then there is the resolution problem as already pointed out, it is not UHD.
My display now is a Samsung Q9FN, the image quality is incredible!
No contest unfortunately.
Yes, as you say, it requires high end laser to get full quality for SDR.You can get there with the quality
It just costs more and requires a pitch black (no ambient light) room. Ideally black paint on walls and ceiling, no windows
Yes, as you say, it requires high end laser to get full quality for SDR.
HDR though looks to be a no show for projectors, none I have read about can compete because they cannot get close to the full P3 spectrum (no need to talk about BT.2020) and quality throughout the HDR brightness range (high colour volume).
You make a very good point about ideally needing black walls.
My walls are dark wood which made my projector experience almost as good as it can be.
Without that the light from the projector itself reflects off the walls etc back on to the screen, reducing the contrast ratio substantially.
The biggest problem I have with laser projectors is once the laser has run out it is dead.
There are no replacement lasers.
A major issue with UHD projectors is display lag for gaming.
Very few are good enough and even then that is only for casual gamers.
1080p pjs it was easy to find low lag examples, not UHD though.
Yeah its unfortunate.Lamps aren't bright enough, and contrast still can't get there. they can display HDR sure, but none will ever be certified.
There are cheaper laser units (even from Sony). As for the laser unit not being replaceable, that's really not an issue. If you wind up using it 4 hours every single day (which I doubt you will), it will last ~14 years. The unit will be obsolete by then anyway. If that doesn't feel like a long time, a good example is that if we go back 14 years, multi-core CPUs weren't a thing and the top end was a Pentium 4 or Athlon 64.Yeah its unfortunate.
HDR is translated mostly to SDR with a consequently dimmer general image except for the highlights in HDR mode, that is all they can do to try and maintain the contrast difference.
Only one pj that I know of, the $60K+ Sony VW5000ES SXRD laser, has enough oomph to do it justice and needs up to 1200W!
But being a laser the light source isnt replaceable making it a poor long term investment even if you have the $.
And when its that good you will want to use it a lot.
Its a sad paradox.
My last pj received close to 12K hours use in 3 years, it was the TV and gaming display.There are cheaper laser units (even from Sony). As for the laser unit not being replaceable, that's really not an issue. If you wind up using it 4 hours every single day (which I doubt you will), it will last ~14 years. The unit will be obsolete by then anyway. If that doesn't feel like a long time, a good example is that if we go back 14 years, multi-core CPUs weren't a thing and the top end was a Pentium 4 or Athlon 64.
12,000 hours in 3 years means ~11 hours a day. I would say that is way above the norm.My last pj received close to 12K hours use in 3 years, it was the TV and gaming display.
Which of those cheaper units are good enough to replace my Samsung Q9FN?
Let us know which can compete with HDR TVs on light power, HDR spectrum, UHD pixel quality and lag.
Those are impressive but a lot of money for only 20K hours, $25 to 35K.12,000 hours in 3 years means ~11 hours a day. I would say that is way above the norm.
A Sony VPL-VW885ES or VPL-VW995ES will put out more light overall than say a high end 75" TV last I checked. The TV will get brighter, but you have to remember that the projector is spreading that across a much larger area.
I'm not sure when the last time you saw a high end projector was, but in my semi-light controlled setup, I have to turn down the brightness considerably on mine (older Sony ES) or else it's too much.
If you want something above 100", then you won't be disappointed as few TVs are made that large (and then tend to cost even more than a high end projector).
Screen size does matter? Lumens are a measure of the total light output. With TVs, as screen size increases, generally lumens do too. Samsung doesn't seem to list anything regarding brightness specifications.Please qualify the points I asked for.
HDR lumens are not the same as average lumens, and screen size isnt pertinent for this metric.
Screen size is not relevant on a pj because it outputs the same amount of light no matter the size.Screen size does matter? Lumens are a measure of the total light output. With TVs, as screen size increases, generally lumens do too. Samsung doesn't seem to list anything regarding brightness specifications.
Regarding spectrum, I couldn't get a percentage for BT.2020, but it's just short of 100%. There is 100% coverage of P3 contrary to what you said (per Sony's whitepaper). Looks like in testing, your Samsung has under 80% BT.2020 and not quite 100% P3. Seems your TV is lagging here actually.
Pixel quality? That's very subjective? I'm not able to see any gaps on mine even at 1080p.
Input lag is rated at 27ms in 4K HDR mode. Your Samsung is does 22.4ms per testing, so no noticeable difference.
I'm not the only one using the projector, I fancy many people have their TV on for 12hrs a day, sometimes longer.I meant that screen size is relevant to TVs when it comes to light output.
I think 20,000 hours is far more than anyone in the market for one of those will use. Your daily 11 hour use is not the norm (even for a TV I'd say). Honestly I'm lucky if I find time to use my projector 10 hours a week. Anything that expensive is going to wind up in an actual theatre room and not out in the living room anyway.
We're generally not the target audience anyway. Most people are best suited for a TV and well, once you get past a certain size, you have no choice but to get a projector. I'll upgrade once I can get one on eBay for under $10k.
Do you have a source?This thread got weird.
You know most LCD TVs have a daring of 20,000 hours too
We were talking overall lumens/nits only.And YES screen size of projected image matters for brightness. A LOT actually. More light obviously on a smaller image.
I stand corrected. That 20000 figure is quite old info. Sadly probably the last time I looked it up, when LCD tech started hitting mainstream .Do you have a source?
I meant that screen size is relevant to TVs when it comes to light output.
I think 20,000 hours is far more than anyone in the market for one of those will use. Your daily 11 hour use is not the norm (even for a TV I'd say). Honestly I'm lucky if I find time to use my projector 10 hours a week. Anything that expensive is going to wind up in an actual theatre room and not out in the living room anyway.
We're generally not the target audience anyway. Most people are best suited for a TV and well, once you get past a certain size, you have no choice but to get a projector. I'll upgrade once I can get one on eBay for under $10k.