Amazon Introduces "Amazon Key" In Home Delivery

[Lizard Testes]

Well apparently you live in utopia, where I leave there are shootings and robbery's and thefts, you know normal dealings of life in populated area's.

How many of them are done by UPS drivers when there's a digital record of them being at the location of the shootings and robberies and thefts and they know for a fact that they're being recorded on 1080p video?

Literally walking down the street and peeking in windows is a better way to case a place then getting a job as a delivery driver and then getting fired the first time you do it and becoming a suspect for anything bad that happens at that location for the next three years.

 

[travisty]

I've heard that sad excuse for an argument for years, it doesn't work. Being prepared for a situation does not equal fear, if anything it makes one feel more secure.

Those in fear look for protection. Protection from nothing is paranoia.

The US is fueled by fear - be it terrorism, religion being stolen, people of another color/culture. Fear brings about irrational thought. Irrational thought results in neo-nationalism like Trump.

What I said was not an argument but rather a statement of observed truth.

For anyone living in an opium fueled hell hole, move.

 

[SomeoneElse]

How many of them are done by UPS drivers when there's a digital record of them being at the location of the shootings and robberies and thefts and they know for a fact that they're being recorded on 1080p video?

They didn't have access to an open door, but they have had guys recorded coming back and stealing the same freakin package they delievered.......or coming back and trying to open the door of the house they delievered to.......your living under a rock man....

 

[travisty]

They didn't have access to an open door, but they have had guys recorded coming back and stealing the same freakin package they delievered.......or coming back and trying to open the door of the house they delievered to.......your living under a rock man....

But not breaking in and killing the residents for no reason. There is still no justification for taking another person's life here.

If the same dumb driver tries to pick up the package he just delivered call the police. He's driving a delivery van, can't get very far...

 

[SomeoneElse]

Those in fear look for protection. Protection from nothing is paranoia.

The US is fueled by fear - be it terrorism, religion being stolen, people of another color/culture. Fear brings about irrational thought. Irrational thought results in neo-nationalism like Trump.

What I said was not an argument but rather a statement of observed truth.

For anyone living in an opium fueled hell hole, move.

LOL really? No this whole idea that we are somehow "ok" is what the government wants you to think. They also say they can protect you with more police......except the police don't care about 1 guy they protect the general populous not the individual.

 

[Lizard Testes]

They didn't have access to an open door, but they have had guys recorded coming back and stealing the same freakin package they delievered.......or coming back and trying to open the door of the house they delievered to.......your living under a rock man....

How many times has this happened?

And they knew they were being recorded, eh? Not only recorded, but a quite good chance they're being watched in real time and the cops could be called immediately.

 

[travisty]

LOL really? No this whole idea that we are somehow "ok" is what the government wants you to think. They also say they can protect you with more police......except the police don't care about 1 guy they protect the general populous not the individual.

Got your tin-foil hat on right i hope.

Again irrational fear going to paranoia.

I'm sorry to break it to you... no one's out to get you. There is no boogyman and there's not a monster under the bed.

I guess i should also mention there's no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, or Tooth Fairy. Sorry.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

Got your tin-foil hat on right i hope.

Again irrational fear going to paranoia.

I'm sorry to break it to you... no one's out to get you. There is no boogyman and there's not a monster under the bed.

I guess i should also mention there's no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, or Tooth Fairy. Sorry.

They call him Baba Yaga. The Boogey Man!

Actually one should take a view somewhere between the arguments I'm seeing here. There ARE in fact bad people. There ARE in fact home invasions, break-ins, burglaries, and thefts, and not just in your "opium hell-holes" either. This shit happens in everything from slums right up through the fanciest of neighborhoods. I personally live in what I consider a mid-range neighborhood. We have some crime, but we also have a pretty decent community. A relative of mine is quite wealthy, lives in what's considered to be a higher end location, and they've had their cars broken into, stolen, etc. several times.

There's no magical "if you don't like it, move" scenario.

So far, we've been fairly lucky in that the recent issue we've had was someone stealing mail. Luckily it was recovered, and the culprits were prosecuted. Still though, I protect my property. We have cameras, guns, dogs, locked gates, security screens on the main entrances, and signs posted. I don't think I'm paranoid. I have four kids, I have a lot of expensive equipment both for working on my projects, and the projects themselves that are typically for sale when I complete them. I'll be damned if I'm going to let some asshole even THINK about trying to intrude on me, my family, my home.

My neighbor was broken into though. He doesn't take all the same precautions that we do, and so I assume he was the easier target of the two houses. That's not irrational fear, causing me to be irrational. That's a solid data point, causing an appropriate reaction. I don't feel I need to push what I've done to any extreme. I'm not going to mount anti-aircraft weapons on the house, automated turrets, I won't stock shotguns at every entrance, I'm content with the amount of cameras I have up, and I'm not going to live my life in fear. However, you can be quite sure that I'm prepared for eventualities.

Shit happens all over the place. Motivations may be different in different areas, neighborhoods, etc. But pretending it doesn't exist is as silly as being overly paranoid about it.

Balance is the key.

If allowing an Amazon delivery person access to your home fits within your personal balance where security is concerned, that's great. I'm not going to tell you not to sign up. It probably is actually fairly safe MOST of the time. You have to weigh that for yourself. For me personally, it doesn't fit into how I balance security vs. living my life. One less thing to worry about is great with me. I'd rather have one package stolen off the porch, and deal with that, than wonder about people entering my home. In your case, maybe Amazon Key is the better value.

I wouldn't discount there being monsters out there though.

 

[Bawjaws]

I guess i should also mention there's no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, or Tooth Fairy. Sorry.

Damn right there isn't - any more. And any other motherfucker who tries breaking into my house by coming down the chimney is getting shot in the face, too. Same for anyone trying to get into my house to steal my teeth.

The Easter Bunny is alright, though.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I love amazon quite a bit -- but this is a biiiiig nope for me.

amazonactly. nada, nope, not a chance...

edit: my co worker is basically telling the rest of us that we are wrong for not wanting this..lol

open my door and the dog will make short work of you...

 

[termite]

Yeah this isn't going to end badly.

 

[sfsuphysics]

If I had a locked entry way that lead to a locked front door, then yeah maybe in that intermediate area, but inside my house? Uh no... Amazon you simply fucking eat the cost when someone steals my package because you decide that leaving it out in front of my house is a good idea.

 

[cdabc123]

I can buy a box with a combo lock for 250 and just give the person a combo.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

I do see where some people are coming from. People can case my house via the windows if they really want to. They could bash in a window. So really, what more does allowing someone into the entry-way add to that? I guess it's another example of a balance, only this time it's on the criminal's side.

"They have security screens on the main door, signs warning that the owners are armed, two small-medium sized dogs, cameras, and locked gates." "Is that worth my time, or should I go down the street and look for something easier?" Allowing someone in the front door that I don't know just adds one more item to my list of possible concerns, but maybe my setup is still too much of a deterrent if that same person is getting any ideas.

I can really see both sides to this.

Maybe someone with no kids, and no good place outside to leave a package might prefer this, and in their case maybe it would be worth the added (if small) risk. I can see that.

I design expensive audio equipment though, and have a lot of it sitting around, both mine, commissioned projects, occasional repair work, all my test and development equipment, tons of PCs, kids, wife. It's just not worth than 0.25% added risk for me to allow a delivery person to walk into the house. (not to mention we order a lot of stuff, so at that point we may as well charge him/her rent too )

 

[mynamehere]

Don't understand the fear here, sounds like a great idea. No more missed deliveries, ever again ever. Period.

I wouldn't ever expect an inside job, too much risk for the employee, and any 3rd party hoping to exploit the system would be better off with a traditional burglary.

You give people too much credit.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

If I had a locked entry way that lead to a locked front door, then yeah maybe in that intermediate area, but inside my house? Uh no... Amazon you simply fucking eat the cost when someone steals my package because you decide that leaving it out in front of my house is a good idea.

That's a good point too. Having a little locked vestibule type thing would be great for this. If I framed in my front porch, I could see doing something like this. They could have the key to that, but not into the main house.

 

[Cr4ckm0nk3y]

Wife orders something on Amazon.

Doesn't tell me about it.

Chilling on the couch when some asshoe randomly opens my locked front door.

3 weeks filling out the police reports and dealing with all that mess.

I would imagine the delivery person or even services (house cleaning) has a procedure for announcing themselves prior to entering the house/apartment. Even ringing the doorbell or knocking first.

My building has a similar service where they will deliver groceries, packages, laundry, etc. They knock several times then announce as they are opening the door who they are. I have been home on the couch and the delivery person just sits at the door after announcing who they are waiting for a any response.

I think the commercial over simplified the process of the delivery person just walking in unannounced. Walmart has a similar service but in one commercial the delivery person actually knocks then yells "Walmart" as they enter.

I am in agreement with you that being prepared does not mean fear.

 

[SomeoneElse]

Got your tin-foil hat on right i hope.

Again irrational fear going to paranoia.

I'm sorry to break it to you... no one's out to get you. There is no boogyman and there's not a monster under the bed.

I guess i should also mention there's no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, or Tooth Fairy. Sorry.

I'm glad you think that you are invincible but some day it will come to you and i guess you won't be ready. The crime in my neigbor hood has risen sharply in the last 3 years so yea i guess i DO have the right to be a bit paranoid. I don't live in wonder land like everyone else I guess. I just know I like being ready for any possible scenario, I was prior military as well so being ready for anything was ingrained in me anyway. Nothing about what I have said is irrational.....its called preparing for every possible scenario......and if you don't prepare for it then you are asking for trouble that's all i'm saying. The only one being irrational is you by chastising those of us who think this idea can go south very quickly.

 

[DTN107]

I wouldn't mind if I could put the Amazon key on my storage shed in the back.

 

[zkostik]

How many of them are done by UPS drivers when there's a digital record of them being at the location of the shootings and robberies and thefts and they know for a fact that they're being recorded on 1080p video?

Literally walking down the street and peeking in windows is a better way to case a place then getting a job as a delivery driver and then getting fired the first time you do it and becoming a suspect for anything bad that happens at that location for the next three years.

Digital record my ass, all the deliveires I get marked as delivered and not there. Then magically they show up a few days later. AMZL is notorious for this but others are guilty as well. Definitely don't want these clowns in the house, much less for a $250 setup and Amazon camera spying on shit.

 

[Rahh]

I can buy a box with a combo lock for 250 and just give the person a combo.

As previous post also already stated you can have a lock box or drop box at your door fir this kind of stuff. Bolt it down put a camera on it and Amazon, UPS, FEDex, and USPS can use it to put your packages in. They don't even need a key or code for some drop boxes.

I just don't get why this Amazon needing to come is needed at all...

 

[Lizard Testes]

But pretending it doesn't exist is as silly as being overly paranoid about it.

No one is pretending that crime doesn't exist.

In typical [H] fashion, you've got people sounding off that didn't RTFA (e.g. the "not everybody has a camera in their house to record any malfeasance!" guy, when the system INCLUDES a camera that goes in your house).

Then I think you've got people that haven't really thought about the situation very thoroughly or accurately.

Then there are probably some people that really are just overly paranoid and there's not much anyone is likely to say that will cure them of that.

UPS knows the delivery driver was at the house. So does Amazon. It's literally GPS/time stamped. The delivery driver KNOWS that he is being recorded and if they even tap their toe past the threshold UPS is probably going to get a cranky phone call. Obviously if they enter the house and start looking around they are absolutely going to get fired, if not prosecuted.

So in order for this to become a real problem for someone let's think about what needs to happen:
1. You gotta have a delivery driver that's a criminal (or looking to get into the crime game) that's managed to pass their vetting process and background checks.
2. It's gotta be one of the DUMBEST criminals on the planet because while he's casing your house he has just provided the police with video evidence that he did as well as his name, address, background check, etc. We're talking "lemon juice on your face makes you invisible to security cameras" type level of criminal stupidity.
3. It's gotta be a criminal so stupid that he can't figure out that window peeping or wandering around in an ATT U-Verse shirt are infinitely better ways to case a joint just because they're anonymous. Not casing anything and just robbing houses randomly is also better for the same reason.
4. Your house has basically gotta be the first one he cases, or at least the first day he starts doing it, because he is not gonna get a second day doing it.
5. He's gotta hope you're not actually home, and just not answering the door.
6. He's gotta hope that you're not actively watching the video feed live (i bet most people absolutely will) in which case you can literally start yelling at him through the speaker and also call the police.
7. After ALL this shit, he's actually gotta go through with actually trying rob you (or telling someone in his no doubt extensive criminal organization to do so).

Like the number of severely retarded criminal UPS drivers is probably not super high to begin with so the chances of them starting their life of crime on the day they happen to deliver a package to my house is pretty low. The chances of them coming back later to steal my Pog collection is even lower. I, personally, don't plan my life around something that probably has a 1 in hundreds of millions chance of happening.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

I wouldn't mind if I could put the Amazon key on my storage shed in the back.

That's another good alternative I hadn't thought of. I'd be perfectly willing to do this in an out-building. I have a detached garage, that if I removed the expensive bikes from, would be a safe drop-off point. actually it has two sections, so the bikes/tools could be locked in the second section separately. Still not planning to sign up, but this would definitely mitigate the risk of letting someone into the house.

 

[Lizard Testes]

Digital record my ass, all the deliveires I get marked as delivered and not there. Then magically they show up a few days later. AMZL is notorious for this but others are guilty as well. Definitely don't want these clowns in the house, much less for a $250 setup and Amazon camera spying on shit.

1. I have literally never had this happen in my entire life and I get practically everything delivered. Maybe once like 15 years ago I guess and I just don't remember.
2. There's absolutely a digital record because that's how the door is opened. The guy can't steal your Hummel figurines and impregnate your dog if the door isn't opened and the only way the door gets opened is if he's there and there's a record of it.
3. I doubt what you're saying is going to happen a lot when you'll have video evidence of them not being there.
4. A video recording is a digital record.

 

[Spaceninja]

I just have all of my stuff delivered to my work. One good thing about working in a small office.

 

[Ur_Mom]

My UPS driver comes over to play video games. We get a rematch this weekend. Street Fighter 2.

He's cool as fuck. I'd trust him to bring stuff in, grab a soda or popcicle, use the bathroom... Whatever. Hell, he's done that!

Privacy is an issue. Like many other things (encryption, ISP/Microsoft telemetry, etc.). It's not that you have something to hide. It's that you value your privacy. I don't want a stranger in my home without me being there. I'd let my UPS driver do it (with or without this Amazon thing, yea it's against regulations but we're good.), but I wouldn't let anyone else. It's not that I don't trust them. It's that I enjoy my privacy. I like my security.

 

[prime2515102]

Amazon has a happiness guarantee? That's odd because they pissed me off so bad that as soon as my last shipment gets here I'm closing my Amazon account. I guess they didn't inform the three support reps I talked to. lol

 

[Deleted member 83233]

No one is pretending that crime doesn't exist.

In typical [H] fashion, you've got people sounding off that didn't RTFA (e.g. the "not everybody has a camera in their house to record any malfeasance!" guy, when the system INCLUDES a camera that goes in your house).

Then I think you've got people that haven't really thought about the situation very thoroughly or accurately.

Then there are probably some people that really are just overly paranoid and there's not much anyone is likely to say that will cure them of that.

UPS knows the delivery driver was at the house. So does Amazon. It's literally GPS/time stamped. The delivery driver KNOWS that he is being recorded and if they even tap their toe past the threshold UPS is probably going to get a cranky phone call. Obviously if they enter the house and start looking around they are absolutely going to get fired, if not prosecuted.

So in order for this to become a real problem for someone let's think about what needs to happen:
1. You gotta have a delivery driver that's a criminal (or looking to get into the crime game) that's managed to pass their vetting process and background checks.
2. It's gotta be one of the DUMBEST criminals on the planet because while he's casing your house he has just provided the police with video evidence that he did as well as his name, address, background check, etc. We're talking "lemon juice on your face makes you invisible to security cameras" type level of criminal stupidity.
3. It's gotta be a criminal so stupid that he can't figure out that window peeping or wandering around in an ATT U-Verse shirt are infinitely better ways to case a joint just because they're anonymous. Not casing anything and just robbing houses randomly is also better for the same reason.
4. Your house has basically gotta be the first one he cases, or at least the first day he starts doing it, because he is not gonna get a second day doing it.
5. He's gotta hope you're not actually home, and just not answering the door.
6. He's gotta hope that you're not actively watching the video feed live (i bet most people absolutely will) in which case you can literally start yelling at him through the speaker and also call the police.
7. After ALL this shit, he's actually gotta go through with actually trying rob you (or telling someone in his no doubt extensive criminal organization to do so).

Like the number of severely retarded criminal UPS drivers is probably not super high to begin with so the chances of them starting their life of crime on the day they happen to deliver a package to my house is pretty low. The chances of them coming back later to steal my Pog collection is even lower. I, personally, don't plan my life around something that probably has a 1 in hundreds of millions chance of happening.

Well, in some peoples' cases it's a bit more than a Pog collection. (some might even have Alf Pogs)

If I let someone in my front door, all they have to do is look around and are going to see SOMETHING of interest. Maybe it's just enough for that person to get tipped over the edge.

Probably not. You never know though, and I don't think some of your requirements to entry (for the criminal are 100% accruate.) If the delivery person decides to come back later, they're not driving the delivery truck. They aren't on the clock, or GPS tracked at that point. To circumvent your cameras, they need merely cover up their faces, break in the messy home-invasion way, grab what they want, and go. I'm not going to estimate how likely this scenario is. I'm only saying that it gets around several of your bullet points.

Personally, I'd rather not even think about it at all. How's that? If I don't have to think about it, then I'm not going to stress about it, or be paranoid due to that stress. It's off my list.

You're probably correct in most cases though. Like I said though, this whole product just doesn't fit into my personal life vs security balance scenario. The benefits just aren't worth it to me over other possible solutions. Nor did I think I needed a solution other than my current one in the first place.

 

[SomeoneElse]

No one is pretending that crime doesn't exist.

In typical [H] fashion, you've got people sounding off that didn't RTFA (e.g. the "not everybody has a camera in their house to record any malfeasance!" guy, when the system INCLUDES a camera that goes in your house).

Ok with that all you said its still ONLY 1 scenario. Based on only the driver being the criminal. There are so many other things you have to consider like other people being criminals that are not the criminal. How many guys rob convenience stores that know there is video surveillance. That never stopped them before. I'm beginning to think your just trolling....you can't believe that a video recording device will stop people.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

My UPS driver comes over to play video games. We get a rematch this weekend. Street Fighter 2.

He's cool as fuck. I'd trust him to bring stuff in, grab a soda or popcicle, use the bathroom... Whatever. Hell, he's done that!

Privacy is an issue. Like many other things (encryption, ISP/Microsoft telemetry, etc.). It's not that you have something to hide. It's that you value your privacy. I don't want a stranger in my home without me being there. I'd let my UPS driver do it (with or without this Amazon thing, yea it's against regulations but we're good.), but I wouldn't let anyone else. It's not that I don't trust them. It's that I enjoy my privacy. I like my security.

That's cool. Not exactly what I'd call the normal scenario, but pretty cool nonetheless. I'd say at that point though, he's a bit more than "the delivery guy" and bordering on being a friend of yours.

 

[Lizard Testes]

There are so many other things you have to consider like other people being criminals that are not the criminal.

Lol wut?

How many guys rob convenience stores that know there is video surveillance. That never stopped them before. I'm beginning to think your just trolling....you can't believe that a video recording device will stop people.

Do convenience store video cameras magically identify the name and address of the people they record?

No?

Not really the same then, is it?

 

[Retronym]

I dont think so, scooter.

 

[Ultima99]

I think I'll probably pass on this one. You guys feel free to beta test this.

I'll continue to have packages delivered to my work where there is always someone to sign for it, on camera.

 

[triwolf]

Indeed. Instead of buying this "kit" and installing an Amazon specific security camera, why not just add a lock-box on your porch, or even build one into the front of your house? (and still have a security cam pointed at it ) I really don't want ANYONE coming into my house while I'm not there.

This, and they should have thought of way to get a new door or some way to add another hole to your door that only they can open. The lock box is better too. The whole allowing some stranger into your house to deliver things is going to be a tough sell for most folks who have dealt with every type person on this planet from the truly creepy to the amazingly altruistic. Most people would never even think of what Amazon is trying to push. It's not going to happen.

 

[Ranulfo]

For anyone living in an opium fueled hell hole, move.

What happens if that opium fueled hell hole moves with you? Isn't moving called white flight and viewed as racist? Check your moving away economic privilege you bigot!


Anyway, if Amazon was smart and not looking at a way fraught with safety and legal/financial concerns they would offer a $249 secure lock-box that you put on your porch or in the back yard, that lets deliveries have access to that code. If you trust drivers to not rip you off that way. "I totally dropped it in the box man! Logs show the code being input and checked via the net! Totally was a wifi/net error man,was the isp was down dude?" I trust the drivers in my part of town generally other than some are rather lazy and just toss stuff right on the porch in the open. If was still living on the other side of my town well, lets just say no delivery driver ever left anything on my front porch. If they missed you, you waited a day or told them you would come pick it up at the local warehouse.

 

[Pongo]

Wait for home owner to auth unlocking the door the send deauth packets to the camera to kill the connection. Now you're inside unsupervised.

Install root kit on someones mobile phone so you can access the unlock app. Let yourself in.

I wouldn't call people paranoid who don't want this. We are all on a tech forum and know the possibilities and faults of all IoT devices.

 

[SomeoneElse]

Do convenience store video cameras magically identify the name and address of the people they record?

No?

Not really the same then, is it?

LOL WUT? Since when does this key cloud camera have the name and address of the person its recording? Stop the 1 case scenario you are being extremely narrow minded. I also mis-typed and meant to say in the above quote there are other criminals that are not the delivery guy.

 

[travisty]

What happens if that opium fueled hell hole moves with you? Isn't moving called white flight and viewed as racist? Check your moving away economic privilege you bigot!

Wow that's uncalled for... And so many uninformed assumptions. Hard to imagine people consider you a human being let along having any amount of intelligence...

 

[zkostik]

1. I have literally never had this happen in my entire life and I get practically everything delivered. Maybe once like 15 years ago I guess and I just don't remember.
2. There's absolutely a digital record because that's how the door is opened. The guy can't steal your Hummel figurines and impregnate your dog if the door isn't opened and the only way the door gets opened is if he's there and there's a record of it.
3. I doubt what you're saying is going to happen a lot when you'll have video evidence of them not being there.
4. A video recording is a digital record.

Someone has to look at these records and be truthful about what they find. Good for you that you've never had delivery issues but for those of us that do, carrier rarely tries to help. Amazon customer services makes it looks like they are helping but they really don't. Surely they won't confirm their driver was full of shit and they marked it delivered to satisfy Prime.

Regarding the camera, it depends on placement. Do you get to see what it sees and records as well as how long the person was in your house? Does the person delivering your goods is background checked? Who insures any what if, I bet Amazon will have a small print for this. Your good might be stolen before you get the box, with this you can no longer claim this even if true. So not sure about it. There are a million things that could go wrong with this. You are welcome to be their test subject for this, I sure as hell won't.

 

[Geforcepat]

What could go wrong?