Opinion Piece on Linux Marketshare

[Chuklr]

This week I while reading the "Comments" section at distrowatch.com I came across a link to an opinion piece by Michael Cornelison, "Opinion: Linux on the Desktop." I think the points Mr. Cornelison makes are valid and worth considering.

 

[ChadD]

He isn't wrong but I think the reason Linux hasn't caught on with normal folk is far simpler then all that stuff.

It comes down to the average person has no idea how to install an Operating system. That is a big scary thing that involves wiping their computer. It also involves voiding the warranty on their computer that shipped with windows on it.

Android has proven that all the ideas about Linux being scary or too hard to learn or any other nonsense like people are scared of change to be wrong. People will change and have no issues doing it as long as the experience makes sense. Android has or at least had a good share of buggy software in its early days... and it still exploded in use and popularity.

So why did Android succeed so fast.... simple it was installed by default on the hardware people where buying.

Linux main issue is it has not had a champion company that really went out and nailed down OEM contracts. Yes now Dell is shipping some unbuntu laptops, and System76 is starting to get some market. Still the bottom line is HP Asus Acer Lenovo Samsung ect ect still ship mainly Windows systems. Until that changes Linux will never break into the mass market. It will keep its few percentage points of use with gear head types and continue to get support from scientific users and 3D effects companies ect.

Back in the late 90s Corel tried to be that company... but when it came to OEM deals they got CRUSHED by Microsoft at the height of their shady days.

That is my opinion on Linux adoption .... and why I always say when the Year of Linux comes it won't be a slow uptick it will be a literal explosion of adoption. My feeling is Google is on the verge of being that champion company that replaces MS. They have already done the Invade and Replace in the smartphone market which MS was a pioneer in and did have a pretty good chunk of market share at one time. (as did BB). Android replaced all but apple within a few years. If Google decides to create ChromeOS PRO and model it after Android in terms of licence making it easy for companies like HP to install on PCs... I do believe they could replace windows as the default factory install almost over night. If windows becomes the OS you have to format and install overtop of what shipped with the machine, the masses will abandon it.

 

[BulletDust]

I think the article's largely accurate, some points I don't agree with are:

- The number of differing desktop managers, I consider this a strength of Linux and wouldn't have it any other way.
- Library incompatibilities, I've never experienced this one, I've only ever once had to assist someone with a library issue relating to Steam and AMD drivers under a modern distro.
- Backwards compatibility, I can assure you this is an issue regarding all operating systems and is no worse on Linux.
- Quality - This is an issue under all operating systems, Linux isn't the only OS to suffer from this issue. However in the case of FOSS, if you see an issue and have the skills, fix it.
- Free software culture and standards - Issues conforming to standards are actually more prevalent under Windows as opposed to Linux. Using office suites as an example, Libre Office and XPS Office can conform to the default .docx ISO standard just fine, whereas it's well known that Microsoft deliberately attempted to manipulate the standard at first and even after applying the full standard to their Office suite it still suffers from compatibility issues that aren't present in the Linux alternatives.
- I don't agree with his opinion Re: The Way Forward. I see Linux usage and awareness growing on all fronts, the statistics don't back up his claim.

 

[Chuklr]

I think you may be right regarding the "Year of Linux". The catalyst could very well be Google even though they are near the front of the pack in invading ones privacy online.

 

[heatlesssun]

I agree with the points, but it's amazing how some pro-desktop Linux folks miss the big one. Virtually all client x86 software and hardware made supports Windows. This is the ONLY reason I use Windows, period. It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy or love of Windows.

 

[BulletDust]

I agree with the points, but it's amazing how some pro-desktop Linux folks miss the big one. Virtually all client x86 software and hardware made supports Windows. This is the ONLY reason I use Windows, period. It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy or love of Windows.

No it doesn't.

Expose yourself to a larger pool of machines not covered under the umbrella of corporate networks and driver issue are actually very prevalent under Windows. As soon as hardware ages slightly all support is dropped, the advent of Windows 10 compounded this issue. I've had one item of hardware that wasn't plug and play under Linux without the need to install anything at all.

Out of all the software available under Windows, there's about ten items everyone really needs, the rest is shovelware. Linux supports all this and more.

 

[ChadD]

I think you may be right regarding the "Year of Linux". The catalyst could very well be Google even though they are near the front of the pack in invading ones privacy online.

I didn't say we would like their OS. Still at least it would be running the same core... and as long as Steam runs on any new Google OS. It would be good for games under Linux.... and the code would be close enough for everything else that it would make normal Linux versions much easier then it currently is with software targeting windows only.

Ya not sure swapping google out for microsoft is great for anyone.... I think its coming though. lol

It would be hoping a little to much for Google to just drop a full on Google Distro with a modified version of Gnome or something. (as they use internal with goobuntu) That would be fantastic... but of course ya they will do the same thing they did with Android and current chrome I'm sure.

 

[ChadD]

I agree with the points, but it's amazing how some pro-desktop Linux folks miss the big one. Virtually all client x86 software and hardware made supports Windows. This is the ONLY reason I use Windows, period. It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy or love of Windows.

Good then you will have no issues switching to Chrome Pro when it hits. You wanna bet Google announces such a thing right around the time Microsoft announces Arm powered "Winbooks" later this year. lol

 

[BulletDust]

Linux cannot run the same desktop interface across the board, it can't as that goes against everything Linux stands for.

We run the same kernel. Desktop managers look different to suit personal tastes but essentially, under the polish they're all the same. We have .deb and .rpm and then we have Arch, yeah there's differences, but essentially they're all the same.

At the end of the day Linux is what it is, I embrace that and wouldn't have it any other way and I don't find it to be an issue whatsoever.

 

[B00nie]

I agree with the points, but it's amazing how some pro-desktop Linux folks miss the big one. Virtually all client x86 software and hardware made supports Windows. This is the ONLY reason I use Windows, period. It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy or love of Windows.

For me the tradeoff of being targeted by every cybercriminal in the world (not to mention being owned by Microsoft) is not worth it. I prefer to check the hardware compatibility instead.

Google has a strict no windows policy with its workers by the way. They learned their lesson after the Chinese pwned their Windows workstations.

 

[heatlesssun]

Google has a strict no windows policy with its workers by the way. They learned their lesson after the Chinese pwned their Windows workstations.

They have to have some to build and test Chrome for instance. They also produce desktop Google Earth and they have a Windows only VR title, Google Tilt Brush.

 

[B00nie]

They have to have some to build and test Chrome for instance. They also produce desktop Google Earth and they have a Windows only VR title, Google Tilt Brush.

Regardless of that, workers have a ban on Windows. Perhaps some developers use it on need-only basis and even then running on a VM.

 

[heatlesssun]

Regardless of that, workers have a ban on Windows. Perhaps some developers use it on need-only basis and even then running on a VM.

Ok. I doubt the Google Tilt Brush developers are using Windows in a VM for a VR app. I just think it's interesting that Google's most interesting VR app to date is a Windows only app.

 

[ChadD]

Ok. I doubt the Google Tilt Brush developers are using Windows in a VM for a VR app. I just think it's interesting that Google's most interesting VR app to date is a Windows only app.

Because its the only option. VR isn't shipping in a non beta form on any other platform at the moment.

It is true Google doesn't run MS products and hasn't for years... that should be pretty obvious seeing as they are the publishers of 2 competing Operating Systems and every bit of their web software runs on Linux. The standard google employee OS developer or otherwise is goobuntu. They keep macos, ios, and windows devices around for testing.

EDIT
Ohhh and heatle this is from googles tilt brush blog; "The Tilt Brush Toolkit includes Python scripts and a Unity SDK with everything you need to make movies, interactive stories, video games, music videos, or other projects using assets created in Tilt Brush."
I point this out cause it points to the fact that its likely all the code was done on Linux machines. You can code python scripts in windows sure... but the fact they used Python and Unity tells me they likely coded it on a Linux machine and built a widnows version, seeing as right now that is the only platform to publish VR stuff to.

 

[heatlesssun]

EDIT
Ohhh and heatle this is from googles tilt brush blog; "The Tilt Brush Toolkit includes Python scripts and a Unity SDK with everything you need to make movies, interactive stories, video games, music videos, or other projects using assets created in Tilt Brush."
I point this out cause it points to the fact that its likely all the code was done on Linux machines. You can code python scripts in windows sure... but the fact they used Python and Unity tells me they likely coded it on a Linux machine and built a widnows version, seeing as right now that is the only platform to publish VR stuff to.

This doesn't make any sense. Tilt Brush came out a year ago, the state of Linux VR support was no where. Plus How do you test the code? And this also works with the Rift now, how do those controllers work under Linux? There's no time frame for Rift support coming to Linux anytime. Python and Unity run fine on Windows. You can code with Unity using any number of tools like Visual Studio, I've played with that a bit.

 

[B00nie]

This doesn't make any sense. Tilt Brush came out a year ago, the state of Linux VR support was no where. Plus How do you test the code? And this also works with the Rift now, how do those controllers work under Linux? There's no time frame for Rift support coming to Linux anytime. Python and Unity run fine on Windows. You can code with Unity using any number of tools like Visual Studio, I've played with that a bit.

You don't have any knowledge of what Google has developed internally so you can't say they didn't have developed support.

 

[B00nie]

Not to mention nobody in their sane mind are going to touch Rift after it was acquired by Facebook.

 

[naib]

VR again when its usage is what? 0.01% of the market & is in-flux ...

I just rebuilt my desktop (Ryzen, MSI mobo) and everything just worked(tm). Now as a gentoo user I was in complete control of the system configuration as oppose to binary distro users who would have to wait for their chosen poison to push out a new update BUT it does work.
I was a day-one purchaser of SteamLink & SteamController and they worked immediately.

If you want to talk about hardware not working lets talk about HPET which today is STILL disabled in windows because it causes HAVOC! I recently had todo the bootloader hack to force windows10 to use HPET over its own timer in an attempt to improve the userland tick of 15ms ... Not only did the responsiveness of the entire machine collapse BUT equally I still could not get 1ms response...
Want to talk about hardware not working? about 1week after 64bit processors were on hte market, linux was using it... how long until Microsoft released a 64bit version of their virus?

Every now and again their is a piece of hardware that isn't supported very well in linux & the same in Windows... I have an FPGA programmer, 8months old, top of the line and bam... they announced 2mo ago it will not be supported in windows10 & "a new update to the hardware" a £5000 piece of hardware is due out in 12months yet my company will be deploying Windows10 in 4months... goo hardware support...




Generally people want their equipment to work out of the box, they want their software to work. The masses do not install windows, they either buy a new computer(with it pre-installed) or they ask someone to "fix their pc". If they were given a machine with linux on it for the most part they would not care... My wife quite happily used Ubuntu LiveUSB for her work while I bought a replacement HDD (to then re-install windows).
There is some inertia in how operating systems work and people are generally ... more familiar with windows HOWEVER an OS is an OS and for all their differences there is alot in common.

Software is a different thing. The majority of people go "PDF ... I need Acrobat" Even though there are tonnes of more capable viewers for windows. Those that look for or know of alternative will have zero problems with linux...
Those that go "document --> MSOffice, PDF --> Acroread, Picture --> Photoshop" ie brandname followers are a PROBLEM & it is about educating them And ubuntu does a VERY good job of this.

Then there is the incompatibilities... MSOffice, especially Excel is a fantastic application but there are parts that are incompatible with LibreOffice... This goes beyond forced incompatibility... Pivot tables for instance are not as nice in LibreOffice.

 

[BulletDust]

VR again when its usage is what? 0.01% of the market & is in-flux ...

I just rebuilt my desktop (Ryzen, MSI mobo) and everything just worked(tm). Now as a gentoo user I was in complete control of the system configuration as oppose to binary distro users who would have to wait for their chosen poison to push out a new update BUT it does work.
I was a day-one purchaser of SteamLink & SteamController and they worked immediately.

If you want to talk about hardware not working lets talk about HPET which today is STILL disabled in windows because it causes HAVOC! I recently had todo the bootloader hack to force windows10 to use HPET over its own timer in an attempt to improve the userland tick of 15ms ... Not only did the responsiveness of the entire machine collapse BUT equally I still could not get 1ms response...
Want to talk about hardware not working? about 1week after 64bit processors were on hte market, linux was using it... how long until Microsoft released a 64bit version of their virus?

Every now and again their is a piece of hardware that isn't supported very well in linux & the same in Windows... I have an FPGA programmer, 8months old, top of the line and bam... they announced 2mo ago it will not be supported in windows10 & "a new update to the hardware" a £5000 piece of hardware is due out in 12months yet my company will be deploying Windows10 in 4months... goo hardware support...




Generally people want their equipment to work out of the box, they want their software to work. The masses do not install windows, they either buy a new computer(with it pre-installed) or they ask someone to "fix their pc". If they were given a machine with linux on it for the most part they would not care... My wife quite happily used Ubuntu LiveUSB for her work while I bought a replacement HDD (to then re-install windows).
There is some inertia in how operating systems work and people are generally ... more familiar with windows HOWEVER an OS is an OS and for all their differences there is alot in common.

Software is a different thing. The majority of people go "PDF ... I need Acrobat" Even though there are tonnes of more capable viewers for windows. Those that look for or know of alternative will have zero problems with linux...
Those that go "document --> MSOffice, PDF --> Acroread, Picture --> Photoshop" ie brandname followers are a PROBLEM & it is about educating them And ubuntu does a VERY good job of this.

Then there is the incompatibilities... MSOffice, especially Excel is a fantastic application but there are parts that are incompatible with LibreOffice... This goes beyond forced incompatibility... Pivot tables for instance are not as nice in LibreOffice.

Love this. Many points of view that I have argued time and time again in the past.

Although apparently I exaggerate the capabilities of Linux.

 

[auntjemima]

Love this.

Of course you do, it fits your narrative.

 

[BulletDust]

Of course you do, it fits your narrative.

No, it fits my experience running Linux.

 

[BulletDust]

While I'm sorry that Linux did not work out for you auntjemima, even though I really did try to help knowing there was a possibility it could blow up in my face. Would you prefer it if I did actually outright lie and claim that my experience running Linux has been as difficult as yours? Would that make things better?

 

[auntjemima]

While I'm sorry that Linux did not work out for you auntjemima, even though I really did try to help knowing there was a possibility it could blow up in my face. Would you prefer it if I did actually outright lie and claim that my experience running Linux has been as difficult as yours? Would that make things better?

How did it not work out for me? I use it all the time. I find it loads faster on my ancient sata drive. I had a few issues and I got around them. It was annoying and that's why I argue as I do. After jumping through hoops I am able to use it.

What does that have to do with your constant hate for Microsoft that you so blatantly try and convince yourself you don't have?

 

[BulletDust]

How did it not work out for me? I use it all the time. I find it loads faster on my ancient sata drive. I had a few issues and I got around them. It was annoying and that's why I argue as I do. After jumping through hoops I am able to use it.

What does that have to do with your constant hate for Microsoft that you so blatantly try and convince yourself you don't have?

I don't hate Microsoft, I've never claimed to hate Microsoft, there was many times I claimed the opposite. I make a living working on Microsoft products.

I can see, as it's quite obvious, that the direction Microsoft is headed is backwards and I'm in no way going to sugar coat that and I believe Windows 10 is a poor replacement for Windows 7. I am also heavily opposed by the idea the MS believes they own your PC the moment you have no choice but to click 'I Agree' to that EULA. But in the past, before the advent of Windows 8, I have been very supportive of Microsoft and their operating systems.

The issue is not that I hate Microsoft, although I believe their stronghold over the PC market due to forced installation has to end, the issue is that there's very little to defend regarding Windows 10. Furthermore, when Windows users that obviously have no Linux experience post misinformed information regarding Linux I am going to correct them - The misconceptions regarding Linux from people that have never actually taken the time to familiarise themselves with the OS has gone on long enough.

You think I was too hard on Heatlesssun today? I could have been a lot harder considering there's evidence in that very thread that he was outright lying regarding his Linux experience and usage relating to VR under Linux. But instead I was the only person to offer advice from the very beginning.

Have you never been annoyed over similar issues under Windows?

 

[heatlesssun]

You don't have any knowledge of what Google has developed internally so you can't say they didn't have developed support.

Neither does ChadD. If it were cross platform sure but this isn't and it doesn't make sense to develop an app on Linux that does run on Linux when all of the development tooling and support to run the app is on Windows.

Not to mention nobody in their sane mind are going to touch Rift after it was acquired by Facebook.

A couple of folks in this forum who think I'm the biggest Microsoft fanboy and hate Windows 10 swear by the Rift as superior to the Vive.

 

[heatlesssun]

VR again when its usage is what? 0.01% of the market & is in-flux ...

So something that's expensive isn't popular. Doesn't mean it's not good or that it's not important. There are currently just as many VR Windows only titles coming out on Steam as Linux titles in total. So if Linux gaming is thriving and growing VR is doing even better. And that's not unusual for a tech that's still almost brand new with lots of early adoption energy. In time if VR doesn't take off that will fade.

 

[naib]

So something that's expensive isn't popular. Doesn't mean it's not good or that it's not important. There are currently just as many VR Windows only titles coming out on Steam as Linux titles in total. So if Linux gaming is thriving and growing VR is doing even better. And that's not unusual for a tech that's still almost brand new with lots of early adoption energy. In time if VR doesn't take off that will fade.

Strawman ... something that is new has teething & windows isn't immune to this...

You seem to constantly use VR as the make or break so lets flip this around...

HPET is make or break, HPET was introduced to improve event timing. non-windows OS's utilised this and as a result processes can benefit from 100ns accuracy. Windows however, event today & with Windows10 cannot... it is broken and one sign of this is : http://bugs.python.org/issue20505

 

[heatlesssun]

Strawman ... something that is new has teething & windows isn't immune to this...

You seem to constantly use VR as the make or break so lets flip this around...

HPET is make or break, HPET was introduced to improve event timing. non-windows OS's utilised this and as a result processes can benefit from 100ns accuracy. Windows however, event today & with Windows10 cannot... it is broken and one sign of this is : http://bugs.python.org/issue20505

When someone buys or builds a PC they generally have a budget and certain requirements, "I need to run MS Office." "I want a thin and light device because I'll be traveling with it a lot." "I want to be able to take notes with a pen." "I want to League of Legends." "I need a DJ mixer." And so one. Sure a lot of people buy stuff and don't have any specific needs on their minds and it's very possible that Linux might work fine for them and others that don't need access to Windows only stuff. But who when looking to buy or build a PC asks "I want to run Windows." or "I want to run Linux."?

Many pro-desktop Linux folks seem hell bent defining a computer SOLEY around the OS and the truth that's just not how the overwhelming majority of people look at it. I find it odd how often I'm called a Windows defender when I repeatedly state that the OS is largely irrelevant to most people. It's the hardware and software that the OS supports that's the major concern.

 

[naib]

but why can't I have HPET support in windows? why am I limited to a 15ms accuracy for things like sleep or asyncio?

 

[almalino]

You Linux fanboys can fight all day long how great Linux Desktop is but that does not change is 2% marketshare.

PS: I am myself a Linux Mint user and I think it is great. Though I still use Windows for Gaming and PhotoShop

 

[B00nie]

A couple of folks in this forum who think I'm the biggest Microsoft fanboy and hate Windows 10 swear by the Rift as superior to the Vive.

My hatred against Facebook and what it stands for way supercede my hatred towards Windows. Although Microsoft seems to make moves toward privacy violations and data mining as of late which puts it to the same category with Facebook.

 

[heatlesssun]

but why can't I have HPET support in windows? why am I limited to a 15ms accuracy for things like sleep or asyncio?

This is pretty low level hardware and dependent on a number of things. Not saying there's a problem in here, just not really sure what the real impact is. That link you provided couldn't have had anything to do with 10 being dated before Windows 10 was even announced.

 

[auntjemima]

I don't hate Microsoft, I've never claimed to hate Microsoft, there was many times I claimed the opposite. I make a living working on Microsoft products.

When every one of your initial posts in a Microsoft thread start with "thats because they are monopolistic bastards", it is hard to take this comment seriously.

The issue is not that I hate Microsoft, although I believe their stronghold over the PC market due to forced installation has to end, the issue is that there's very little to defend regarding Windows 10. Furthermore, when Windows users that obviously have no Linux experience post misinformed information regarding Linux I am going to correct them - The misconceptions regarding Linux from people that have never actually taken the time to familiarise themselves with the OS has gone on long enough.

1. They are not forcing anyone to install Windows on their OEM machines anymore. They lost that battle. Get over it. OEM's still install Windows because when their customers have a Windows issue they can direct them to Microsoft. If they were to install Linux they would need to support it, something OEM's are not willing to do. They do not have control over the Linux kernel and expecting an OEM to support Linux on their side with every kernel update is not something that is even remotely sensible.

2. I have taken the time to familiarise myself with Linux and my experiences, while not exactly the same as heatlesssun, are not stellar. You don't want people to become familiar, what you want is each person to use Linux to sing its praises. That doesn't happen with any software.

You think I was too hard on Heatlesssun today? I could have been a lot harder considering there's evidence in that very thread that he was outright lying regarding his Linux experience and usage relating to VR under Linux. But instead I was the only person to offer advice from the very beginning.

Have you never been annoyed over similar issues under Windows?

1. I am not interested in your squabble with heatless, carry on.

2. We have all had similar hardware or software installation issues, I am sure. My issue was I had about as many in Windows 7/10 in the 8/1 years I have been running them as I did in my Linux install in just the first week. Lets say I have a new program I want to use. I log into Windows, install it and use it. Same scenario in Linux, I log in and try to install, oh cool it installed. Try to run it, nothing. Hmm, check google. Alright, here is a random thread with the same issue and wow! a fix!. Terminal time. Lets copy 50 lines of code and hope there aren't any changes to the kernel in the last 15 updates this week.

Do you remember when I installed that Linux kernel update and I have wifi issues? Lol.

 

[naib]

This is pretty low level hardware and dependent on a number of things. Not saying there's a problem in here, just not really sure what the real impact is. That link you provided couldn't have had anything to do with 10 being dated before Windows 10 was even announced.

not sure what the real impact is? the USB3 spec had to be written to accommodate this ...
USB1 poll rate is 125Hz
USB2 poll rate is 1kHz
USB3... the adjusted the bus interval ....

 

[B00nie]

When every one of your initial posts in a Microsoft thread start with "thats because they are monopolistic bastards", it is hard to take this comment seriously.



1. They are not forcing anyone to install Windows on their OEM machines anymore. They lost that battle. Get over it. OEM's still install Windows because when their customers have a Windows issue they can direct them to Microsoft. If they were to install Linux they would need to support it, something OEM's are not willing to do. They do not have control over the Linux kernel and expecting an OEM to support Linux on their side with every kernel update is not something that is even remotely sensible.

2. I have taken the time to familiarise myself with Linux and my experiences, while not exactly the same as heatlesssun, are not stellar. You don't want people to become familiar, what you want is each person to use Linux to sing its praises. That doesn't happen with any software.



1. I am not interested in your squabble with heatless, carry on.

2. We have all had similar hardware or software installation issues, I am sure. My issue was I had about as many in Windows 7/10 in the 8/1 years I have been running them as I did in my Linux install in just the first week. Lets say I have a new program I want to use. I log into Windows, install it and use it. Same scenario in Linux, I log in and try to install, oh cool it installed. Try to run it, nothing. Hmm, check google. Alright, here is a random thread with the same issue and wow! a fix!. Terminal time. Lets copy 50 lines of code and hope there aren't any changes to the kernel in the last 15 updates this week.

Do you remember when I installed that Linux kernel update and I have wifi issues? Lol.

Uh, kernel updates are routine unless you go to mess with them manually, installing a newer or even incompatible kernel to your OS. It's very easy to hose your system by installing a random kernel naturally, just as is messing a Windows install by screwing with the registry or installing random drivers. If you have time before viruses and malware or Microsoft itself mess it up for you, that is.

 

[auntjemima]

Uh, kernel updates are routine unless you go to mess with them manually, installing a newer or even incompatible kernel to your OS. It's very easy to hose your system by installing a random kernel naturally, just as is messing a Windows install by screwing with the registry or installing random drivers. If you have time before viruses and malware or Microsoft itself mess it up for you, that is.

I am talking about updating the kernel by selecting it via the update manager. Should I not install the updates they offer? I thought that was one of the golden sexy amazing things Linux offered over Windows.

 

[B00nie]

I am talking about updating the kernel by selecting it via the update manager. Should I not install the updates they offer? I thought that was one of the golden sexy amazing things Linux offered over Windows.

Unless you have a specific problem to address, no. Having said that normally you can update without issues. And piss off windoze trolls.

 

[auntjemima]

Unless you have a specific problem to address, no. Having said that normally you can update without issues. And piss off windoze trolls.

I'll admit though, that update manager is pretty sweet. I have only had the one kernel issue, but I haven't tried any new kernels since I reverted back.

 

[ChadD]

Neither does ChadD. If it were cross platform sure but this isn't and it doesn't make sense to develop an app on Linux that does run on Linux when all of the development tooling and support to run the app is on Windows.

I base my assumption. (and I do admit it is one). That they likely programmed it running Linux tools... because one EVERY programmer working for google is on Linux. (Even the ones creating Windows Chrome browser updates ect) They used Python a very popular scripting language with Linux programmers... they used Unity which does have official Linux support and tools, which has been in beta with the types of well positioned programmers google had/has working on tilt bursh for well over a year. So I still say its pretty likely they programmed it under Linux.

Google makes plenty of other software that runs on Windows. Yes I know none of it is coded on Windows machines. So I assume this isn't any different. But who knows your right I am guessing and so are you if you think they did anything but test it on windows machines.

 

[BulletDust]

When every one of your initial posts in a Microsoft thread start with "thats because they are monopolistic bastards", it is hard to take this comment seriously.

I don't think I've ever used that wording, but Microsoft are monopolising the PC industry and that's not a good thing. Once again, would it be better if I outright lied and avoided the truth by stating that Microsoft don't monopolise the PC industry and are all flowers and roses?

i call a spade a spade.

1. They are not forcing anyone to install Windows on their OEM machines anymore. They lost that battle. Get over it. OEM's still install Windows because when their customers have a Windows issue they can direct them to Microsoft. If they were to install Linux they would need to support it, something OEM's are not willing to do. They do not have control over the Linux kernel and expecting an OEM to support Linux on their side with every kernel update is not something that is even remotely sensible.

You cannot buy an OEM, brand name machine without Windows installed! It's literally impossible in Australia! I know, I tried! In the end I sent the client to System76 as even Dell AU were useless. This is just flat out incorrect. OEM's are still paid install bonuses by MS and Microsoft's high usage statistics are based solely around this fact. The OEM as well as MS still has to provide the same amount of support that they always have, nothing has changed here in 20+ years, so I'm not too sure of it's relevance. Needless to say the support from MS sucks unless it involves reactivating Windows.

2. I have taken the time to familiarise myself with Linux and my experiences, while not exactly the same as heatlesssun, are not stellar. You don't want people to become familiar, what you want is each person to use Linux to sing its praises. That doesn't happen with any software.

There are many people that sing the praises of Linux. Heatlesssun has used Linux for 10 mins and it's obvious he never had any intention of singing it's praises.

My experience with Linux is faultless, I can't even imagine a reason to use Windows anymore. I use Libre Office for the running of my business, I use Atril Document Viewer for .pdf's, I use Thunderbird for my domain's email and calendar requirements all synced with my Google calendar which contains all my bookings using Google Maps on my phone to navigate to the various clients I go out to - All synced automatically. I use Insync to synchronise my Google Drive, better than Google's own client. I use Chrome as my web browser of choice, no different to what I would use under Windows, I also have Mozilla on hand (no idea why). I use Deluge to download torrents, I use Sabnzbd+ Re: Newsgroups. I use Teamviewer to remotely log into clients machines, no different to Windows and I use Ramminia to remote desktop into machines, which is by far better than Windows own RDP software. I use Filezilla to update websites, I can also do this via the file browser if I choose, but I'm used to the Filezilla interface. I use the Spotify client to listen to music while I work, no different to Windows. I use Clemantine to listen to my own music library, awesome piece of software. I use Handbrake and MakeMKV to rip my collection of HD-DVD's to my file server as I no longer have a machine to play them back on, no different to Windows. I use Kazam to record my desktop for YouTube video's, an awesome piece of software, simple and does an outstanding job. I use kdenlive to edit video's on rare occurrences and don't have an issue with it, it's fully featured and very powerful. I use Brasero to burn .ISO files and data files, it works perfectly. I use Ambient Noise at times to have a little noise in the background as working alone sometimes gets a little isolating. I use FS-UAE launcher as my Amiga emulator of choice and it is flat out awesome. I use Pluma as my test editor of choice, no issues there. I use GIMP all the time, from manipulating photographs to scaling images for my daughter to use on her YouTube Channel and creating banners, awesome software that's getting better all the time and I no longer have to run a pirated version of Photoshop, which most amateur users do. I use Simple Scan to scan all my business invoices, my Canoscan scanner was plug and play, no need to install drivers at all, it just worked out of the box. I use a Bluetooth dongle I found in the bottom of my drawer to transfer pictures between my phone and my PC, no need to install drivers, once again all plug and play, it just worked out of the 'drawer'. I use SMPlayer to watch TV Series while I'm working, awesome software, I consider it to be better than VLC and have both installed. I use Reditr as my reddit client of choice, can't get used to Reddit via a browser after using Sync on Android. I use Wireshark and Angry IP Scanner for diagnosis, no issues there. I use UKUU to update the kernel via GUI, awesome software, makes things so simple and warns about kernel regressions....

...And I game, using Nvidia drivers (378.13) at 1080p (I run dual 1080p displays and their use under Linux is superior to Windows using Nvidia drivers), I have a number of games ranging from Source titles, which I love, right through to Torchlight II (which I actually prefer to Diablo) and many other titles. All of my games run perfectly, Steam installed quickly and easily via .deb installer and FPS is usually well over 160fps using a soon to be upgraded GTX 670FTW.

I had no problems, none whatsoever, out of the box considering drivers and never have - With the exception of the time some genius decided to try and snap package the Nvidia drivers, that was a disaster, but only happened once and I had backups. I have had no issues installing and maintaining software, .deb/apt handled those duties perfectly and all software updates alongside system updates just fine with none of the numerous updating issues experienced under Windows.

My PC runs 100% of the time, I never turn it off with the exception of applying kernel updates, applying kernel updates doesn't slow down the boot process in any noticeable way whatsoever and before you know it I've logged in and am back to productivity.

I find myself more productive under Linux. I find virtual desktops to be implemented better under Linux (no surprise there, MS did copy Linux), I have more flexibility with keyboard mappings, my file manager allows me to change the colour of individual folders making them stand out at a glance, I have tabbed browsing under my chosen file manager, I have a decent dock, something I never found under Windows. As stated, multi monitor works better under Linux using Nvidia drivers, both displays are slassed as a single SLS like NVS, however windows snapping to their relevant monitors works perfectly, last time I used NVS under Windows such functionality was a hopeless mess requiring one to keep switching between extended desktop and NVS which was a major PITA. Furthermore, my desktop looks and operates exactly the way I want it to, allowing, once again, for greater productivity...

...And I have one, real, Control Centre (Control Panel under Windows) - The way things should be. My install size takes up a fraction of the size a Windows 10 install takes up, meaning I can easily run the whole OS off a 60GB SSD, something that is near impossible under Windows with any real practicality at all.

OEM's have control over the Linux Kernel? Dell and HP are active contributors to the code due to it's use on their own, supported, server products. There are bigger, more powerful names contributing to the Linux kernel than just little Microsoft.

So as you can see, my experience running Linux is 'stellar', I can achieve everything I want out of my machine and more without the need to use a flawed operating system such as Windows 10. In fact if I used Windows 10 my experience would go backwards. You had issues due to unfamiliarisation over a completely new OS, which isn't surprising, no different to users migrating from Windows to macOS/OSX. While you may consider that you've used Linux for quite some time now and are therefore beyond that early stage, I believe you're still in the familiarisation stage, I still was even 12 months into using Linux as well as OSX - Not because either OS is hard to use, but because I was so ingrained in Windows and Microsoft products, it takes a long time to break that mindset.

So what are you going to do now? Claim that I'm exaggerating the capabilities of my chosen OS and Windows is a necessity among the masses? Claim that I'm somehow wrong and Windows is somehow 'easier'?