Opinion Piece on Linux Marketshare

I'm gonna go have a s
Bandalo said:
Linux is free, any consumer that wants it can get it.

Windows isn't forced, it's honestly what people want. It might not be what YOU want, but it's want the average person wants. Dell, HP, Sony, etc all include it on their machines because it's what people are asking for. If more people wanted Linux, they'd LOVE to provide it and get out of their expensive licensing agreements with MS.

Most people don't WANT to learn the ins and outs of their OS. They just want it to work and not worry about it. Exactly what would the average user gain by switching to Linux?
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You cannot buy an OEM, brand name device without Windows installed! How is that choice?! Furthermore, if you uninstall Windows and provide evidence of doing so you are not entitled to a refund for the OS as MS changed the EULA to stop this practice.

I don't know what your belief of choice is, but this is not in any way how choice works.
 
BulletDust said:
In some ways I hope it stays that way.
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Well it's obvious. For 20 years the Linux desktop community has been a confusing mess of "It's great!" to "Microsoft is keeping off the desktop!" to "Grandma can use it." to calling very experienced computer users idiots with a zillion distros each trying to prove whatever it is they are trying to prove. And never mind that most people just don't care about operating systems, they just want to use their device for their needs and wants.
 
heatlesssun said:
It's just that some of this has no objective way to figure out. Linux is a vastly superior gaming platform to macOS and the only advantage is because Linux hasn't been as supported as long on Steam. Even though a new technology like VR that you love to label niche (not disagreeing just saying) in one year is now getting the same volume of gaming titles as Linux?
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There's 1478 VR Supported titles under Steam, 876 are VR only. There are in comparison 3218 general gaming titles available under Linux on Steam. How is that 'getting the same volume'?

As far as your comment re: Objectivity, I can't understand your post.
 
heatlesssun said:
Well it's obvious. For 20 years the Linux desktop community has been a confusing mess of "It's great!" to "Microsoft is keeping off the desktop!" to "Grandma can use it." to calling very experienced computer users idiots with a zillion distros each trying to prove whatever it is they are trying to prove. And never mind that most people just don't care about operating systems, they just want to use their device for their needs and wants.
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You don't believe grandma can use Linux?
 
BulletDust said:
I'm gonna go have a s


You cannot buy an OEM, brand name device without Windows installed! How is that choice?! Furthermore, if you uninstall Windows and provide evidence of doing so you are not entitled to a refund for the OS as MS changed the EULA to stop this practice.

I don't know what your belief of choice is, but this is not in any way how choice works.
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No one makes you use Windows, even if it's pre-installed. That's like complaining that your new car came with a pre-installed music CD that you don't like. Throw the CD out, put your own CD in, and drive the damn car. You don't go back to the dealership and demand a partial refund for the CD that you didn't want.

The vendors made a deal with MS to save themselves money, and meet the demands of 95% of their customers. Somehow this seems to offend you on a deeply personal level.
 
BulletDust said:
You don't believe grandma can use Linux?
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I believe anyone can use it basically the same as Windows, it's not that big of deal. I've never said once that the problem with Linux is ease of use. It's 3rd party support. Yeah, I can install it fine and get it up and running on my sig rig, and I'm supposedly don't know how to do that according to you. That's not the problem, it's the hundreds of games I have, Office, the things that actually matter WAY more than the OS to me.
 
This discussion is retarded.

I'm going to go have a shower and spend some time with my family, try to dig up some more crap while I'm gone, I'm sure you will.

This post brought to you under Linux, running perfectly via Broadcom Ethernet.
 
BulletDust said:
Oh dear gawd.
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So really, you're getting on me for saying that a distro like Ubuntu or Mint isn't that big of deal to use? Well if that's the case people should just forget Linux if it's that big of deal to go web surfing with it or edit a document.
 
heatlesssun said:
So really, you're getting on me for saying that a distro like Ubuntu or Mint isn't that big of deal to use? Well if that's the case people should just forget Linux if it's that big of deal to go web surfing with it or edit a document.
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No, I'm getting tired of highlighting to you that your belief of third party support and it's necessity in modern computing is vastly over exaggerated in relation to the masses. I completely agree that anyone can use Linux, I've even provided my own usage scenario as an example of the fact that I am missing out on nothing by not allowing a vendor to force me to use Windows.

Yet that's still not enough and because I provided my own usage scenario as an example I'm somehow forcing an opinion because in your limited experience Linux doesn't work for your usage case scenario?! It's not my fault you bought so heavily into MS. Considering the masses, Linux has them well covered.
 
heatlesssun said:
The question is who is really asking for something else? If most people cared about it as much as you do I imagine the situation would be much different.
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Since the introduction of Windows 10 I have customers asking for something else, I cannot provide them with anything else unless I forgo the manufacturers warranty and provide my own warranty. Something that as a small business I'm, naturally, not going to do.

So I refer them to System76. Do you want me to email you what I can find of my correspondence to Dell? It's limited as it didn't take long for me to crack the shits and ring them, but the evidence that I've been actively sourcing open source solutions for clients that are asking for it is there. I am a Dell reseller BTW.
 
Bandalo said:
No one makes you use Windows, even if it's pre-installed. That's like complaining that your new car came with a pre-installed music CD that you don't like. Throw the CD out, put your own CD in, and drive the damn car. You don't go back to the dealership and demand a partial refund for the CD that you didn't want.

The vendors made a deal with MS to save themselves money, and meet the demands of 95% of their customers. Somehow this seems to offend you on a deeply personal level.
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This is an absolute load of rubbish!

If you buy an OEM, brand name PC and uninstall Windows while it's still under Warranty and install Ubuntu and your audio jack physically shits itself due to no fault of your own all manufacturers warranty is null and void - Purely because you uninstalled Windows and installed another OS. It's got nothing to do with the fact that Ubuntu was what caused the damage, because this is a physical, mechanical malfunction. It's got everything to do with the fact that you removed Windows from a device that you're supposed to own.

I know this as I sell such devices and I cannot offer a client a product running Ubuntu with a manufacturers warranty, this is something I have researched extensively for obvious reasons.

SO, to correct your analogy. It's like claiming that the warranty on your vehicle is null and void because you prefer NGK plugs over Bosch and changed them. As a result of your actions your warranty is null and void completely and there is no way to claim a replacement CD player under manufacturer warranty as you switched from Bosch to NGK spark plugs and the manufacturer has an exclusive deal in place with Bosch.

Geezus, the logic is so...Simplistic.
 
BulletDust said:
No, I'm getting tired of highlighting to you that your belief of third party support and it's necessity in modern computing is vastly over exaggerated in relation to the masses.
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They care about that more than the OS. Really, outside of forums like this who gives a shit about PC operating systems? Consumers do not buy operating systems. They buy hardware, software and services. Even if there is cost in the system to cover the Windows licensing, the overwhelming majority of Windows users to not buy Windows directly anymore.
 
Bandalo said:
The vendors made a deal with MS to save themselves money, and meet the demands of 95% of their customers. Somehow this seems to offend you on a deeply personal level.
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Once again, a load of crap.

To quote Wikipedia:

Microsoft does not provide refunds for Windows licenses sold through an OEM, including licenses that come with the purchase of a computer or are pre-installed on a computer.[24] A Microsoft Denmark representative stated that Microsoft's Windows license terms allow OEMs to offer a refund for just the Windows license.[25] Microsoft's End User License Agreement for Windows 10 states that:[26]

By accepting this agreement or using the software, you agree to all of these terms ... If you do not accept and comply with these terms, you may not use the software or its features. You may contact the device manufacturer or installer, or your retailer if you purchased the software directly, to determine its return policy and return the software or device for a refund or credit under that policy. You must comply with that policy, which might require you to return the software with the entire device on which the software is installed for a refund or credit, if any.

In 1999, the relevant text read[10]

If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, PC Manufacturer and Microsoft are unwilling to license the SOFTWARE PRODUCT to you. In such event, you may not use or copy the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, and you should promptly contact PC Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s) for a refund.
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No where there do I see any evidence of changes to the EULA saving anyone money, with the exception of MS themselves. As now if a consumer demands a refund it's completely up to the vendor of the product to foot the bill. Why would I take anything to do with Microsoft personally? I take the fact that large, mostly American, corporations pay no tax whatsoever and I'm supposed to foot the deficit, but I take nothing to do with Windows itself personally.
 
heatlesssun said:
They care about that more than the OS. Really, outside of forums like this who gives a shit about operating systems? People do not buy operating systems. They buy hardware, software and services.
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We've been over this, time and time again! See why I respond to you the way I do! Your brain fade is fucked!

People defiantly noticed the second they turned on their PC and were greeted with 'Hi' on a black screen! They noticed that and they were not one bit happy! Out of all the operating systems that exist today there is no arguing that Windows 10 is the most intrusive with the worst and most inconvenient updating system - People aren't totally stupid! They notice this and they are opposed to it, many just want their Windows 7 back.

Yes, people buy hardware, software and services. That and more is all covered by Linux (Ubuntu specifically) - So you are right, the OS is irrelevant. So why then is every OEM branded device sold with Windows preinstalled! Why is there no choice whatsoever if the make of OS installed is irrelevant.

You overstate the necessity of Windows and Microsoft products considering the masses.
 
BulletDust said:
This is an absolute load of rubbish!

If you buy an OEM, brand name PC and uninstall Windows while it's still under Warranty and install Ubuntu and your audio jack physically shits itself due to no fault of your own all manufacturers warranty is null and void - Purely because you uninstalled Windows and installed another OS. It's got nothing to do with the fact that Ubuntu was what caused the damage, because this is a physical, mechanical malfunction. It's got everything to do with the fact that you removed Windows from a device that you're supposed to own.

I know this as I sell such devices and I cannot offer a client a product running Ubuntu with a manufacturers warranty, this is something I have researched extensively for obvious reasons.

SO, to correct your analogy. It's like claiming that the warranty on your vehicle is null and void because you prefer NGK plugs over Bosch and changed them. As a result of your actions your warranty is null and void completely and there is no way to claim a replacement CD player under manufacturer warranty as you switched from Bosch to NGK spark plugs and the manufacturer has an exclusive deal in place with Bosch.

Geezus, the logic is so...Simplistic.
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I've never seen a manufacturer reject a warranty claim because I changed OS. Not once. I've seen them not be much help for tech support unless you're running Windows, but never reject a warranty claim for damaged hardware. Perhaps you can provide some proof for your claims, because I've RMA'd stuff to Dell and HP, and never had them complain about the OS (or even check, because I frequently send things back with no hard drive installed).

So before you continue your insults about my simplistic logic, maybe you can back up your claims?

BulletDust said:
Once again, a load of crap.

To quote Wikipedia:



No where there do I see any evidence of changes to the EULA saving anyone money, with the exception of MS themselves. As now if a consumer demands a refund it's completely up to the vendor of the product to foot the bill. Why would I take anything to do with Microsoft personally? I take the fact that large, mostly American, corporations pay no tax whatsoever and I'm supposed to foot the deficit, but I take nothing to do with Windows itself personally.
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The vendors installed the OS through a licensing deal to save THEMSELVES money, not you, and not MS. It's far cheaper for them to buy in bulk than to buy individual licenses. The vendors DO pass that savings to the customer, by not charging them the $100-150 extra that a FULL license for Win10 costs, and instead building the cost of a $20-40 OEM license into the cost of the machine. I'm not sure how that's a "load of crap", but that is how it's done. Of course they're not going to give you a refund.

I'm not sure how the corporate tax structure enters this debate either, but feel free to try to continue to distract from your poor argument.
 
BulletDust said:
People defiantly noticed the second they turned on their PC and were greeted with 'Hi' on a black screen! They noticed that and they were not one bit happy! Out of all the operating systems that exist today there is no arguing that Windows 10 is the most intrusive with the worst and most inconvenient updating system - People aren't totally stupid! They notice this and they are opposed to it, many just want their Windows 7 back.
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So then why didn't people go out install Linux? Sure there's versions of Windows that aren't popular, that's never really seemed to push too many folks to something besides Windows. And anecdotally we'll go back and forth on this. My sister-in-law loves her new Samsung TabPro. Basically because it's so much nicer in terms of hardware than what she had before.

OSes do not make up for kick ass hardware.
 
Bandalo said:
The vendors installed the OS through a licensing deal to save THEMSELVES money, not you, and not MS. It's far cheaper for them to buy in bulk than to buy individual licenses. The vendors DO pass that savings to the customer, by not charging them the $100-150 extra that a FULL license for Win10 costs, and instead building the cost of a $20-40 OEM license into the cost of the machine.
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If the masses were as concerned about having Linux as an option as Bullet then don't you think that more vendors would be selling Linux systems? Of course they would.
 
heatlesssun said:
If the masses were as concerned about having Linux as an option as Bullet then don't you think that more vendors would be selling Linux systems? Of course they would.
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They'll sell whatever the customers really want. Right now people want RGB LEDs, and everything is a lit-up rainbow. If people wanted Linux, the vendors would be shitting themselves with happiness. They could load up a free OS, not pay the license fee for that unit, refuse to provide OS and software tech support, and charge you an extra $50 for the privilege.
 
Bandalo said:
I've never seen a manufacturer reject a warranty claim because I changed OS. Not once. I've seen them not be much help for tech support unless you're running Windows, but never reject a warranty claim for damaged hardware. Perhaps you can provide some proof for your claims, because I've RMA'd stuff to Dell and HP, and never had them complain about the OS (or even check, because I frequently send things back with no hard drive installed).

So before you continue your insults about my simplistic logic, maybe you can back up your claims?



The vendors installed the OS through a licensing deal to save THEMSELVES money, not you, and not MS. It's far cheaper for them to buy in bulk than to buy individual licenses. The vendors DO pass that savings to the customer, by not charging them the $100-150 extra that a FULL license for Win10 costs, and instead building the cost of a $20-40 OEM license into the cost of the machine. I'm not sure how that's a "load of crap", but that is how it's done. Of course they're not going to give you a refund.

I'm not sure how the corporate tax structure enters this debate either, but feel free to try to continue to distract from your poor argument.
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Who's arguing the obvious fact that Microsoft offered the vendor a licencing deal in order to pre install Windows on OEM machines?! WTF are you crapping on about? Of course Microsoft offered the vendor a deal for buying in bulk, that's got nothing to do with the consumer. Can you tell me just how much Dell pays for Windows, can you tell me just how much an XPS 13 really costs to manufacture? No, you have no idea! they're corperate secrets that will never be let out of the bag!

The fact remains that the consumer should be able to demand a refund on an OS they have no intention of using, even if that's at the price Windows is sold to the vendor at and especially if they had no choice but to buy the device with Windows preinstalled. Furthermore, there is no logical reason that manufacturers warranty should be null and void simply becauase the consumer installed another OS on their laptop.

It's blatantly obvious the EULA was changed to force that cost onto the vendor as opposed to MS themselves! To claim otherwise is pure lunacy!

i provided corporate tax as an example of something to do with modern society that I take personally, you know this, you're just trying to be a wee bit clever. I don't take anything to do with Windows personally.
 
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heatlesssun said:
If the masses were as concerned about having Linux as an option as Bullet then don't you think that more vendors would be selling Linux systems? Of course they would.
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This is not a choice made by the consumer, the choice to use Windows is made for them. It's not a conscious decision they can make at all.

If Apple devices weren't a rip off I'm sure they'd be a very viable competitor to Microsoft's operating system.
 
Bandalo said:
They'll sell whatever the customers really want. Right now people want RGB LEDs, and everything is a lit-up rainbow. If people wanted Linux, the vendors would be shitting themselves with happiness. They could load up a free OS, not pay the license fee for that unit, refuse to provide OS and software tech support, and charge you an extra $50 for the privilege.
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Once again, see the point above. It's not the consumer making the decision, they have no idea any other OS even exists!

That's not because Windows is in any way good, that's because you can't buy a device without it. Demand can't exist if the consumer is not offered the option to begin with.
 
BulletDust said:
This is not a choice made by the consumer, the choice to use Windows is made for them. It's not a conscious decision they can make at all.

If Apple devices weren't a rip off I'm sure they'd be a very viable competitor to Microsoft's operating system.
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As I've said cost is the number one concern. And to be honest these days there's so much more variety in Windows devices, good ones even, I mean, yeah there's always going to be Mac fans but Apple doesn't even cover a lot of what's available in PC world. Walk into a Best Buy, you really don't see a whole lot of cheap plastic crap. Sure some of that's there but tons of 2 in 1s, touch screen devices, even gaming laptops. While the market has contracted is does look like the better OEMs have figured the race to bottom is over and are actually making better stuff.
 
heatlesssun said:
So then why didn't people go out install Linux? Sure there's versions of Windows that aren't popular, that's never really seemed to push too many folks to something besides Windows. And anecdotally we'll go back and forth on this. My sister-in-law loves her new Samsung TabPro. Basically because it's so much nicer in terms of hardware than what she had before.
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They can't install Windows, they don't even know the possibility exists to do so! Furthermore, Contrary to Bandalo's claims, I am a Dell reseller and warranty on your new product is null and void if you uninstall that image of Windows, Format and install Linux.

Once again, Windows users knowing little but generalising to the extreme!
 
heatlesssun said:
As I've said cost is the number one concern. And to be honest these days there's so much more variety in Windows devices, good ones even, I mean, yeah there's always going to be Mac fans but Apple doesn't even cover a lot of what's available in PC world. Walk into a Best Buy, you really don't see a whole lot of cheap plastic crap. Sure some of that's there but tons of 2 in 1s, touch screen devices, even gaming laptops. While the market has contracted is does look like the better OEMs have figured the race to bottom is over and are actually making better stuff.
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Most of the stuff people buy is cheap shit. The bottom of the range Dell, HP or [gag] Acer.

I sell and repair these devices and the high end laptops are not high on the consumers shopping list. As evidenced by Steam's hardware survey and the fact that Intel HD4000 graphics are the most popular GPU's around.
 
BulletDust said:
I sell and repair these devices and the high end laptops are not high on the consumers shopping list. As evidenced by Steam's hardware survey and the fact that Intel HD4000 graphics are the most popular GPU's around.
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Integrated GPUs are very common in higher end thin and light laptops though. All I said was that walking into a Best Buy in PC section is a lot different than 10 years ago. The hardware is more expensive and nicer than when it was all about low end volume. Low end volume can't carry the PC market anymore.
 
BulletDust said:
Who's arguing the obvious fact that Microsoft offered the vendor a licencing deal in order to pre install Windows on OEM machines?! WTF are you crapping on about? Of course Microsoft offered the vendor a deal buying in bulk, that's got nothing to do with the consumer. Can you tell me just how much Dell pays for Windows, can you tell me just how much an XPS 13 really costs to manufacture? No, you have no idea! they're corperate secrets that will never be let out of the bag!

The fact remains that the consumer should be able to demand a refund on an OS they have no intention of using, even if that's at the price Windows is sold to the vendor at and especially if they had no choice but to buy the device with Windows preinstalled. Furthermore, there is no logical reason that manufacturers warranty should be null and void simply becauase the consumer installed another OS on their laptop.

It's blatantly obvious the EULA was changed to force that cost onto the vendor as opposed to MS themselves! To claim otherwise is pure lunacy!

i provided corporate tax as an example of something to do with modern society that I take personally, you know this, you're just trying to be a wee bit clever. I don't take anything to do with Windows personally.
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You're completely disregarding the comments I made about the warranty service. The warranty is NOT null and void if you change the OS, you're the only one claiming that, without proof, and I've got lots of experience to the contrary.

It seems like YOU were arguing that point when you were "crapping on" earlier in this discussion, saying the bulk license deals only exist to make MS money.

And nope, I can't tell you exactly how much Dell paid for a particular license, since it likely changes all the time as they make deals with MS for various production runs. Can you tell me how much Honda paid for the battery in your new Accord? How much Dunkin' Donuts paid for those coffee beans? Does not knowing these facts keep you from buying things? If your donut comes with a free napkin, that you didn't request, should you be able to demand a refund for that portion of your purchase?

If you don't like Dell, HP, Sony, or whatever's policy about including the OS, go buy elsewhere. They also include power cords you might not need because you already have one. Or cheap portable mice you didn't want. Or a box you don't need after you open it. So quit bitching, put on your big-boy pants, install your OS of choice and move on.

BulletDust said:
Once again, see the point above. It's not the consumer making the decision, they have no idea any other OS even exists!

That's not because Windows is in any way good, that's because you can't buy a device without it. Demand can't exist if the consumer is not offered the option to begin with.
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So is it Dell, HP or Sony's job to educate the consumer about other options? Or is it their job to sell people what they're asking for?
 
Bandalo said:
You're completely disregarding the comments I made about the warranty service. The warranty is NOT null and void if you change the OS, you're the only one claiming that, without proof, and I've got lots of experience to the contrary.

It seems like YOU were arguing that point when you were "crapping on" earlier in this discussion, saying the bulk license deals only exist to make MS money.

And nope, I can't tell you exactly how much Dell paid for a particular license, since it likely changes all the time as they make deals with MS for various production runs. Can you tell me how much Honda paid for the battery in your new Accord? How much Dunkin' Donuts paid for those coffee beans? Does not knowing these facts keep you from buying things? If your donut comes with a free napkin, that you didn't request, should you be able to demand a refund for that portion of your purchase?

If you don't like Dell, HP, Sony, or whatever's policy about including the OS, go buy elsewhere. They also include power cords you might not need because you already have one. Or cheap portable mice you didn't want. Or a box you don't need after you open it. So quit bitching, put on your big-boy pants, install your OS of choice and move on.



So is it Dell, HP or Sony's job to educate the consumer about other options? Or is it their job to sell people what they're asking for?
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Dude, I am a reseller for these vendors. I've been over this issue with them time and time again in an attempt to provide a product running Linux for certain clients that actually ask for it (yes! They do exist! Although I guess I'm just making shit up again!). As stated, if the client choose to fight the vendor, under Australian consumer law they'd probably win. But most can't be bothered with the inconvenience and I am certainly not going to put myself in a position where I can be held liable for the warranty on the device. So sending the client to System76 it is.
 
heatlesssun said:
Integrated GPUs are very common in higher end thin and light laptops though. All I said was that walking into a Best Buy in PC section is a lot different than 10 years ago. The hardware is more expensive and nicer than when it was all about low end volume. Low end volume can't carry the PC market anymore.
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There is more variety. The articles you read regarding high end 2 in 1 laptops is not reflected in my personal experiences with the masses. Most buy simplistic devices as all they do is surf the web, open PDF's, check emails and type up the occasional document, that doesn't require expanses of aluminium and gorilla glass. Most buy an i3 at best, many using simple Pentium's, many machines are ~ 8 years old.
 
Bandalo said:
So is it Dell, HP or Sony's job to educate the consumer about other options? Or is it their job to sell people what they're asking for?
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And what's in it for the OEMs? How does educating users about Linux make them more money?
 
BulletDust said:
Dude, I am a reseller for these vendors. I've been over this issue with them time and time again in an attempt to provide a product running Linux for certain clients that actually ask for it (yes! They do exist! Although I guess I'm just making shit up again!). As stated, if the client choose to fight the vendor, under Australian consumer law they'd probably win. But most can't be bothered with the inconvenience and I am certainly not going to put myself in a position where I can be held liable for the warranty on the device. So sending the client to System76 it is.
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I've been dealing with Dell and HP on this for a long time in the US, and they've never once given me any trouble about a hardware problem on machines with non-standard OS's installed. Their tech support (phone and online) is near useless without a bog-standard image installed, but for clear hardware issues, it's never been a problem. Maybe AU laws are different, or the vendors are giving you a hard time, but it's not legal here for them to deny warranty service under those circumstances.

You can NOT make blanket statements that the warranty is null and void if you install Linux when that's clearly not the case.
 
heatlesssun said:
And what's in it for the OEMs? How does educating users about Linux make them more money?
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It MIGHT in the long run, if they didn't have to buy Windows licenses for each machine they sell. But that's a LONG term ROI, since you'd have to spend a butt-load training your own support technicians first, then educating users.

The vendors would also lose out on all the high-margin software they sell, since people would be jumping to open source.
 
BulletDust said:
Most buy an i3 at best, many using simple Pentium's, many machines are ~ 8 years old.
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I wouldn't consider an 8 old year old PC much a PC. No OS in the world is going to make up for that deficiency in hardware. I get that many don't want to or can spend the money, I'm just saying that's not a PC.
 
Bandalo said:
It MIGHT in the long run, if they didn't have to buy Windows licenses for each machine they sell. But that's a LONG term ROI, since you'd have to spend a butt-load training your own support technicians first, then educating users.

The vendors would also lose out on all the high-margin software they sell, since people would be jumping to open source.
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I agree. But Microsoft provides a lot of support to OEMs, works with them on various technical and marketing projects. Do you really want to slug it out in a shrinking retail PC market with Linux? Not without a Google to back you up.
 
Bandalo said:
I've been dealing with Dell and HP on this for a long time in the US, and they've never once given me any trouble about a hardware problem on machines with non-standard OS's installed. Their tech support (phone and online) is near useless without a bog-standard image installed, but for clear hardware issues, it's never been a problem. Maybe AU laws are different, or the vendors are giving you a hard time, but it's not legal here for them to deny warranty service under those circumstances.

You can NOT make blanket statements that the warranty is null and void if you install Linux when that's clearly not the case.
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Lucky you, this is not the case in AU. As stated, the consumer could fight it, but I am not going to modify a product and risk loosing all manufacturers warranty therefore putting all responsibility on myself as a small business.

I'm beginning to get the feeling you work for corporate/enterprise. If you work in corporate/enterprise, it's not rocket science as to why you have more leverage regarding warranty.

heatlesssun said:
I wouldn't consider an 8 old year old PC much a PC. No OS in the world is going to make up for that deficiency in hardware. I get that many don't want to or can spend the money, I'm just saying that's not a PC.
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My daily use PC is a Dell T5500 with dual Xeon X5675 CPU's, 24GB of ram, a GTX 670FTW and an SSD for the OS as well as two 1TB /home and /storage HDD's. It's far from slow and runs anything I throw at it perfectly. I have a dedicated gaming PC that I hardly use, I'm not going to use an overspecced machine for daily tasks when my Dell is a monster at such tasks.

Silicon technology is reaching it's limits and CPU's have struggled to evolve past x58 days. In most cases advancements are made through improved memory controllers as opposed to any improvement to the CPU core itself, providing minimal improvements compared to the very early days.

The masses do not care the slightest about the latest and greatest, the best 'wow' you can get out of them is to install an SSD as opposed to buying a completely new aluminium/gorilla based 2 in 1 with an i7. Bang for buck, installing an SSD shows the most improvement in real life situations.
 
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heatlesssun said:
I agree. But Microsoft provides a lot of support to OEMs, works with them on various technical and marketing projects. Do you really want to slug it out in a shrinking retail PC market with Linux? Not without a Google to back you up.
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Dell do it and it works just fine. The vendor deals with Ubuntu on behalf of the consumer, forcing the vendor to get more involved rather than just palm off the troublesome consumer.
 
BulletDust said:
Dell do it and it works just fine. The vendor deals with Ubuntu on behalf of the consumer, forcing the vendor to get more involved rather than just palm off the troublesome consumer.
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Really, how many Linux devices does Dell sell? They aren't at Best Buy.
 
The best devices ever brought to the market are Intel NUC's. Set them up right and they're fast as hell, they can be mounted on the rear of the monitor reducing clutter as the masses hate PC towers and I can install Ubuntu on them with full manufacturer warranty, and their warranty/support is absolutely outstanding.

Best of all, they're affordable.
 
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