amd rx 480 is 229 dollars

[Dan]

ive never been excited to buy a 200 dollar card.... My 290x is still out for RMA with no update... Lets see what happens

edit: the back of the card is so ugly w/o a back plate

 

[Pieter3dnow]

ive never been excited to buy a 200 dollar card.... My 290x is still out for RMA with no update... Lets see what happens

edit: the back of the card is so ugly w/o a back plate

Excited to shell out so little money for something that "makes you happy" . How exactly do "we" read this excitement ?

 

[cageymaru]

ive never been excited to buy a 200 dollar card.... My 290x is still out for RMA with no update... Lets see what happens

edit: the back of the card is so ugly w/o a back plate

Didn't the XFX card that was pictured earlier come with a back plate? Wish the XFXSupport had a picture. You know. For science.

 

[ChosenUno]

Well, one big issue with Open Source projects is actually funding. Lots of people use it, but contribution, and more importantly, maintenance, needs funding that unfortunately nobody seems to want to.

Just look at Heartbleed and OpenSSL. The defacto SSL implementation on the Web today and maintained by 1 guy full time and 6 guys total.

So once AMD finishes whatever they plan to with the first revision of GPUOpen, it's up to the rest of the companies to use AND contribute. It's not gonna be a given that GPUOpen will flourish and prosper.

 

[Dan]

ive never been excited to buy a 200 dollar card.... My 290x is still out for RMA with no update... Lets see what happens

edit: the back of the card is so ugly w/o a back plate

I didn't type that well. I'm personally pumped as hell for this card. I've never been excited for a 200 dollar card before this one lol.

 

[ManofGod]

The logic is so flawed it is sad , really sad. You claim that no one will participate in GPUOPEN because of the lack of AMD cards. The Idea is that OPEN allows every card for it to function. It has nothing to do with hardware sales whatsoever...

Also the logic of burnt out AMD cards by mining is flawed. If you buy hardware you get cash for it running not for having it in RMA, thus as a business decision buying hardware that breaks down easily will lose you money ......

Look man, I am an AMD fan as well but what he said makes sense. Also, he did not say no one nor ever claimed no one. As far as cards needing to be RMAed, that is why you buy extra for that eventuality.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

Look man, I am an AMD fan as well but what he said makes sense. Also, he did not say no one nor ever claimed no one. As far as cards needing to be RMAed, that is why you buy extra for that eventuality.

No no no , he said he didn't say anything he was just borrowing it from somewhere else (OCN) . I find it really odd that these things suddenly screw up AMD launch plans. there always are miners always has been, not just this launch but the one before this and the one before that.

So what is this about?
AMD people should be scared of miners , evil miner coming to take your cards? Then miners will RMA . Is the world coming to an end ? Did I miss something. How much more bullshit can we blame on miners ?

Be a little bit more realistic.

 

[Algrim]

Can you honestly say that miners did not contribute to launch availability issues with the 290x?

Can you honestly say that mining cards (not RMA'd but sold as used) did not have a deleterious effect on the new card market?

And you're asking the rest of us to be realistic?

 

[Pieter3dnow]

Can you honestly say that miners did not contribute to launch availability issues with the 290x?
Can you honestly say that mining cards (not RMA'd but sold as used) did not have a deleterious effect on the new card market?
And you're asking the rest of us to be realistic?

I can blame them for it it is easy who did it , miners did it .

 

[razor1]

I can blame them for it it is easy who did it , miners did it .

It was a combination of both miners and AMD low supply for what ever reasons. They dropped in overall marketshare 1 q after the launch once nV's mid range products the 6xx and AMD 7xxx line were available.

 

[ManofGod]

No no no , he said he didn't say anything he was just borrowing it from somewhere else (OCN) . I find it really odd that these things suddenly screw up AMD launch plans. there always are miners always has been, not just this launch but the one before this and the one before that.

So what is this about?
AMD people should be scared of miners , evil miner coming to take your cards? Then miners will RMA . Is the world coming to an end ? Did I miss something. How much more bullshit can we blame on miners ?

Be a little bit more realistic.

So, can you remember how long it was before AMD cards came back down in price to realistic levels? Please do not try to tell me that never happened or that is was only a brief period. Heck the only reason I had picked the R9 290 I had at a normal price is because I bought it right away.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

So, can you remember how long it was before AMD cards came back down in price to realistic levels? Please do not try to tell me that never happened or that is was only a brief period. Heck the only reason I had picked the R9 290 I had at a normal price is because I bought it right away.

Actually I own a Sapphire R9 290x Tri-x (reference model with the triple fan from Sapphire). Had zero problems ordering it when it came out.

It was a combination of both miners and AMD low supply for what ever reasons. They dropped in overall marketshare 1 q after the launch once nV's mid range products the 6xx and AMD 7xxx line were available.

Miners ran rampant with the 5870 as well
.....

 

[razor1]

yeah but if miners are buying all the cards marketshare would go up not down.

Doesn't matter who buys the cards, just as long as they are going off the shelves.

 

[FrgMstr]

H gave an unbiased review to Nano, so you kept the trust, but i suggest with your next editorial , at least have better sources than that Higgens guy at seekingalpha, hes just hopeless.

Personally i think you sound bias, but i guess your only real bias is against thoose who dosnt see it your way, kinda like razor . But well i havnt seen you skew results, just to skew them, it all is most in what you say, not what you do.

In no way shape or form have I ever used "that Higgens guy" as a source for any editorial. I do not write articles based on other articles. I leave that for other sites to do. I am not sure why you would even make that suggestion. That said, the only time I have ever traded email with Higgens was AFTER our editorial and he reached out to me.

You are certainly free to think as you wish. I sleep well at night knowing what I have written was correct and based solely on sources inside of AMD currently.

 

[Ocellaris]

"You are certainly free to think as you wish. I sleep well at night knowing what I have written was correct and based solely on sources inside of AMD currently."

If thoose souces are right, if Raja dearing strategy pans out, we see soon, in next 4 months we have the answear to that, before that, it will just be guesswork, both from you, and anyone else, it will all come down, did AMD do it right, with targeting the 200$ market or not, noone have the answear yet.

Waiting four months is always the answer to AMD's issues

Polaris should be a fine card and Nvidia has little reason to fight it out in the low margin value market until they catch on on 1070 and 1080 production.

 

[FrgMstr]

PS, you stated its alowed to not be so friendly to you, without getting banned.

To address this head on, the only people that get banned around here are the ones that like to call names and hurl insults, and the other group is people that fabricate accusations of illegal activity, such as taking bribes for writing "good" reviews etc. Those are the only two things that will generally get anyone the boot.

Not in your articlel, but in this forum you did, thats just a fact.

Well actually i do love this site, but i do hate whats been going on, you sound biased, im my ears, but, then again, i have not on gpu side in actual reviews seen this side as anything but neutral, but in forums, sometimes you kinda rival the nvida chills, well thats just how i read your comments, and yes i do sleep good to, thanks.

Hang on here. You are saying that I used Higgens as a source. I am telling you that I did not use him as a source for my editorial. I think you are confusing me posting a link to an article with using that information as a source for MY article, and you sir are simply wrong on that point. I posted a single SeekingAlpha link because it backed up some of the things I had already written, not the other way around.

Now if you think me posting a link of interest is a SOURCE, you are not familiar with what a source does in terms of journalism.

If you do not like editorials, you do not have to read those or the threads about those. We do a very good job of letting our readers know what the material is about in the title and the description. I am fairly sure if you HATE that kind of content, no one forced you to read or comment on it.

From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility
By Kyle Bennett May 27, 2016
Trouble is brewing for AMD, Radeon Technologies Group, and Lisa Su, CEO and President. While on the surface it may just seem as though AMD engineers have once again missed the mark when it comes to building a new high-end graphics technology, but there is a lot more to the story.

 

[pendragon1]

I'm a weird one, but what I'm looking for is a low(er) end card with a blower cooler. I'm hoping that the 470 might get the same cooler as the 480. That would make my day.

I doubt it will be a blower. the card is tiny and very low power. I would bet, and I'm not the betting type, that it will just be a bigger version of what was shown on the 460. maybe with a shroud to make it look cooler.

 

[FrgMstr]

OK, i might gone overboard there, but you did post that stupid link, when it comes to how the marked react, Higgens beem dead wrong, and i proved it, well as far as it can be proved, with just showing that thoose who followed hiens adviced , from hes bloogs on seeking alpha, from februar, until today, would have lost money, i showed proof for that, witch is very easy, becouse, the stockmarked is updated evry second.

No you did not go overboard, you stated something that was COMPLETELY FALSE and I corrected you. You can pull all the "buts" out that you want, but you were still wrong. If you have a bone to pick with Higgens, go do it on their forums. As for his suggestions to buy or sell stock, I have never commented on that and never would. You need to complain about that as well on their forums not ours.

And you can get defensive about it, but I see people type things up all day long that are FALSE, like your statements above, then it gets copy and pasted at a whole lot of other forums and no all of sudden, the perception of the truth is far from it. So when you are going to type things up about HardOCP and our actions, please take a moment to get it right. Just because you have a bone to pick with Higgens is no reason to screw me in the process.

 

[razor1]

What have i said that is wrong abaut Higgens blogs ?, why should i be defencive, as you i just say it as i see it.

He is saying by saying in your first post, which did read like Higgins's blog was where Kyle got his info from, that isn't true and this has happened a lot on this forum with my posts too with certain people, yeah I can understand certain posts have meanings that were taken out of context. But Kyle's article came well before Higgens's blog.

He is just saying becareful of how you post.... Posts can be taken out of context extremely easily. You can't convey the same emotions on paper as you can with speech, and many posts are part of entire conversations which shouldn't be taken out of that conversation because the meaning is no longer the same.

 

[razor1]

But razort , read all off Higgens blogs, use your logic, you see what i meen.

You have to understand when more than one journalist has been stating the same things, there is truth behind it, these things don't happen in a black box, yeah you can try to discredit one, but not all of them. Yeah depending on writing style it can inflame responses but take the emotions out of them, and you end up with the real picture.

Lets see have right now Kyle, we have Nordichardware, we have Higgens blog. Pick you poison, you can't say all of them are wrong when they don't have the same sources.......

Added to this what the guy wrote on the forum and WCC which report their "news" fast and loose, if you take the AMD slant out of them you get the same things, everything lines up about clocks, power, performance, etc. Now Kyle went further into it with AMD corporate issues, that is a normality when companies are doing bad, politics, back stabbing go to all time high, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that had worked for large companies downsizing, employees are afraid, they will try to do anything to keep their jobs specially when the economy isn't the greatest.

 

[razor1]

Lol , question, how can you say we have Nordichardware, they have said very littel, they only wrote an article on wcc, yes and even if we Norweagians hates swedes, kidding, i guesss its like USA vs Canada, we actually are brotheers, from the viking age, They have however stated that the aibs are not happy with the 199$ price.

Besude that, Nordich hardware only confirmed that 1400 mhz , should be easy.

After 1400 its hard but can be done, that says quite a bit, that means the reference card is either power limited, which could mean voltage can't be increased or can be and temps are holding it back. So you have WCC saying 1500, then 1600 both with an extra 8 pin, then you have the blog post that stated 1500.with an extra 8 pin. Its all the same information, just written in different ways to what ever angle they want to show.

Now we have a chiphell post of a guy that states he has the card and he can't push it past 1340mhz, we are looking at a max 10% overclock without any issues, and sometimes less.

Looks to me its all over the place at times but over all 1400mhz is the reference design max with a max of 150watts.

 

[razor1]

And razort, it was nordic hardware words either, it was what they have heard from the aibs.

no it wasn't they asked AIB partners. Reference cards 1400 is not a problem, after that it is. they stated they talked to AIB partners about it. And that is where they got their information from.

 

[razor1]

Hmm ok might have misunderstood your post lol. Ah yeah didn't see that you stated that. ok.

 

[tybert7]

Well, one big issue with Open Source projects is actually funding. Lots of people use it, but contribution, and more importantly, maintenance, needs funding that unfortunately nobody seems to want to.

Just look at Heartbleed and OpenSSL. The defacto SSL implementation on the Web today and maintained by 1 guy full time and 6 guys total.

So once AMD finishes whatever they plan to with the first revision of GPUOpen, it's up to the rest of the companies to use AND contribute. It's not gonna be a given that GPUOpen will flourish and prosper.

This is why amd needs to work on their own middleware effects, don't lock it down like nvidia does - just but release an effects library that takes good advantage of amd cards. And if nvidia wants to add in their own optimizations for their cards, so be it.


I've posted this before, but until game engines and gpus can recreate this easily with minimal dev effort aside from the art and designs, we need to push forward:

 

[razor1]

This is why amd needs to work on their own middleware effects, don't lock it down like nvidia does - just but release an effects library that takes good advantage of amd cards. And if nvidia wants to add in their own optimizations for their cards, so be it.


I've posted this before, but until game engines and gpus can recreate this easily with minimal dev effort aside from the art and designs, we need to push forward:

If gameworks already has certain effects ready do go developer won't bother with making their own because the marketshare to the the possibility of what can or can't be done on AMD cards (since the games can still be played on AMD card just with the effects disabled) doesn't justify the cost.

Everything comes down to money, AMD has to be a big part of cutting that cost down to make it OpenGPU viable and once its viable they have to sustain it, this has been the problem with their game dev programs in the past, and other open source programs too. They just don't keep going with what they have started, hopefully this time it will be different.

Just look at hairworks and tressfx, they started out around the same time right? What has nV done with gameworks since then and what has AMD done tress fx?

nV expanding gameworks to include many things. not just hairworks, have integrated into popular engines so developers don't need to worry about integration, AMD has done two revisions of tress fx which was only hair, that is it.

This could entirely be a resource problem, if it is then I don't see OpenGPU making large strides quickly it will take time.

This could be a management problem, if it is, the right people should now be in place to take care of that,but again time is need, that goes back to resources being need to help dev's look away from gameworks.

Bottom line comes down to money and time for the developer has to be overcome with OpenGPU vs Gameworks.

 

[tybert7]

If gameworks already has certain effects ready do go developer won't bother with making their own because the marketshare to the the possiblity of what can or can't be done on AMD cards (since the games can still be played on AMD card just with the effects disabled) doesn't justify the cost.

Everything comes down to money, AMD has to be a big part of cutting that cost down to make it OpenGPU viable and once its viable they have to sustain it, this has been the problem with their game dev programs in the past, and other open source programs too. They just don't keep going with what they have started, hopefully this time it will be different.

Just look at hairworks and tressfx, they started out around the same time right? What has nV done with gameworks since then and what has AMD done tress fx?

AMD still has a chunk of the pc marketplace, and all of the console space. I expect gpuopen to be operable in terms of effects for both consoles and the pc, every dev that makes a cross platform game has to run that game with whatever effects they want to add on the consoles that are using amd gpus, soon they will be using more modern amd gpus with the latest revisions. If the functions are similar between consoles and the pc, why not use them there as well? In dx11 they could not get there with the same effects, but now they can.



Now consider your options.

-Use some nvidia locked/optimized effect that runs only on nvidia gpus at all or well.
-use some gpuopen effect that runs ok on the ps4/xbox one, and great on the scorpion/ps4k + pc market with amd gpus. And still well enough on nvidia cards since amd could refuse to lock out things like sourcecode access.

Scenario 2 allows more leverage across all gaming platforms and graphics cards, even nvidia. What dev would not prefer scenario 2 if credible and optimized and well done effects were available through gpuopen?

Non locked effects, effects that could be optimized better not JUST on nvidia cards, but amd cards and consoles?


This is the leverage amd was always talking about, and you keep writing it off.

 

[razor1]

Razort, thats the is part abaut AMD, they have idesa, they are the underdog, that dont stop fighiting, they won sometimes........, if you know the history, AMD is small compared to Intel, or Nvida, but they eas smart enogh to challenge Intel, yes they lost, but in court of law, intel didnt play fair, does nvida play fair, yes they do, its just marketing sides, both lie, as excpected, i saw erlir you refered to nvida can do a price war better, ofcourse they can, but if they sell for unfer production cost, they loose in court. But for nvidia it may be wrth it , they have money, amd dont.

AMD was not smaller than nV until recent years. They were bigger, they had more income, then had more R&D yes it was spread across different product lines but in the beginning of the ATI/AMD merger it was substantial bigger.

PS nv doesn't need to sell at a loss to hurt AMD, they can price their products at 10% margins and kill AMD right now, but they won't because it will hurt them too and they know they can't do something like that with the repercussions hurting them later on when Intel will be a bigger threat when it comes to computing hardware.

When ATi had the lead with the 9700 they never took that financial advantage to build their dev programs.

 

[razor1]

AMD still has a chunk of the pc marketplace, and all of the console space. I expect gpuopen to be operable in terms of effects for both consoles and the pc, every dev that makes a cross platform game has to run that game with whatever effects they want to add on the consoles that are using amd gpus, soon they will be using more modern amd gpus with the latest revisions. If the functions are similar between consoles and the pc, why not use them there as well? In dx11 they could not get there with the same effects, but now they can.



Now consider your options.

-Use some nvidia locked/optimized effect that runs only on nvidia gpus at all or well.
-use some gpuopen effect that runs ok on the ps4/xbox one, and great on the scorpion/ps4k + pc market with amd gpus. And still well enough on nvidia cards since amd could refuse to lock out things like sourcecode access.

Scenario 2 allows more leverage across all gaming platforms and graphics cards, even nvidia. What dev would not prefer scenario 2 if credible and optimized and well done effects were available through gpuopen?

Non locked effects, effects that could be optimized better not JUST on nvidia cards, but amd cards and consoles?


This is the leverage amd was always talking about, and you keep writing it off.

That is leverage, but that doesn't work when you are cash limited and a publisher is the one making the calls!

Publishers all they care about is $ if they don't need to flush out cash for something they won't. All the dev programs give extras on top of the game, it has nothing to do with game play well outside of flex which is something that is integral but that is kinda of outside of what we are talking about and isn't the norm as the other effects. Added to that 20% marketshare of AMD, which is extraneous since the game will play on AMD hardware anyways, doesn't give much of a push at all.

 

[razor1]

Eh, beside im dyslekied, and english isnt my first laungage, on top of that , i had a few drinks, sothern girls are beutiful :=), so me out to town, to be a gamer

I don't think you are disliked lol, just sometimes hard to understand

 

[tybert7]

That is leverage, but that doesn't work when you are cash limited and a publisher is the one making the calls!

Publishers all they care about is $ if they don't need to flush out cash for something they won't. All the dev programs give extras on top of the game, it has nothing to do with game play well outside of flex which is something that is integral but that is kinda of outside of what we are talking about and isn't the norm as the other effects. Added to that 20% marketshare of AMD, which is extraneous since the game will play on AMD hardware anyways, doesn't give much of a push at all.

I think you are way too pessimistic. If they build it, they will come. A journey of a thousand miles...




It begins, keep adding more effects and more support amd.

In fact, since this is open anyone can create these sorts of effects right? Is this ultra high level or can more novice people make something useful? If the latter, amd should hand out free vega gpus to cs students that have an interest in graphics so they can play around and test things. Create their own novel effects that tap into amds gpus.

 

[razor1]

Well AMD won the law cuits, jim keller was the man behinde athlon
witch in pure performance cryshed intels penthiom, only thing the intel fans had to hold on to was the mobil path, with became , core 2 duo, witch crushed amd, and so far intel is chrushin amd, but jim keller been back there, desifning zen, so who knows, hes design, have beated the crap out of intel before. We see, but Jim Keller is a legend.

Well the thing is Core M was also in play around the same time Athlon was made, Intel is very good too and they have more design teams and resources to AMD as you stated. But don't think only Keller can do the job of 5 independent Intel design teams that I know of (they could have more). Keller had two teams one working on x86 and one working on ARM. Intel messed up with netburst but by the time they took that direction is was too late. In one generation Intel was back by using their Core M IP which was based on PIII IP if I'm not mistaken.

I think you are way too pessimistic. If they build it, they will come. A journey of a thousand miles...




It begins, keep adding more effects and more support amd.

In fact, since this is open anyone can create these sorts of effects right? Is this ultra high level or can more novice people make something useful? If the latter, amd should hand out free vega gpus to cs students that have an interest in graphics so they can play around and test things. Create their own novel effects that tap into amds gpus.

That is for offline rendering isn't it? And you need a firegl card too, ah not just need opencl 1.2 cards. I'm talking about games, and game engines.

 

[razor1]

Sorry Razor, when i drink my english get even worse. So no callin out on facts, oki.

LOL keep drinkin have a blast, I'll be doing the same tonight!