Best Linux distro.. "best"..

[jwcalla]

Ever try to install Linux natively on a Surface Pro 3?

Ever try to install Windows natively on an HP TouchPad?

Don't work.

 

[heatlesssun]

Ever try to install Windows natively on an HP TouchPad?

Don't work.

Actually installing natively Ubuntu on an SP3 does work.

 

[swatbat]

Ever try to install Linux natively on a Surface Pro 3? I did about a year ago with Ubuntu, that was the last time installed Linux natively. I've installed Linux many times over the years on all kinds of hardware. Works fine on basic hardware. Not so much for things like a Surface Pro 3. Might try it out this weekend on my Surface Book. I have a pretty good idea that the tablet features won't be there. I'll look around to see what people are doing.

As I've said, I do keep up with the state of desktop Linux in terms of its hardware and software support. I have a pretty good idea of what works and doesn't relative to Windows for the things I do.

tek syndicate went through this not too long ago and listed a bunch of issues and how they got it working. They did a video on it and posted their info in the forums. It was interesting overall.

 

[heatlesssun]

tek syndicate went through this not too long ago and listed a bunch of issues and how they got it working. They did a video on it and posted their info in the forums. It was interesting overall.

https://teksyndicate.com/videos/surface-pro-3-linux-lets-recompile-together

I've actually seen this a while ago and I follow his videos on this stuff. It's a heck of a lot more interesting and educational than installing Linux natively on commodity hardware. But they really never got it working thought I admire the effort and skill.

What's interesting as well is his mention of OneNote at the end and seeking a FOSS equivalent. As much as some think top line tools like OneNote are for the 1% and hardware like a Surface Pro are niche, desktop Linux simply isn't going to become mainstream without support for this kind of stuff. Support for top end stuff is critical to a platform because that stuff trickles down the chain and pushes things forward.

 

[Frobozz]

What's interesting as well is his mention of OneNote at the end and seeking a FOSS equivalent. As much as some think top line tools like OneNote are for the 1% and hardware like a Surface Pro are niche, desktop Linux simply isn't going to become mainstream without support for this kind of stuff. Support for top end stuff is critical to a platform because that stuff trickles down the chain and pushes things forward.

And... it's moving that way and is why I'm supportive of Valve. Valve bringing Steam to Linux has given it a monetizing app store that works (in that it is established and runs.) No doubt the next few months will be interesting for developers as they begin to push it. If it's successful, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for groups like Adobe to make "holy grail" software, like Photoshop, available. As unlikely as I think it would be to ever see OneNote on Linux, I guess I didn't expect to see it on OSX either, and there it is.

Same with hardware. If SteamMachines were to get traction (I'm honestly skeptical but hope they do well) then you'll see more direct support from corporate engineering types. "Why won't you use our chip in your console?" will be asked and the suits will hear "linux" and have a business decision to make that can only leave linux in a better spot than it is in today.
Go be an egg.. or chicken.. whatever one comes first.


IMO, the Surface is just an outlier in the hardware discussion due to conflict of interests. Microsoft has zero reason to support Linux by choosing supported components, nor contributing code for what they created. They even went to the trouble of enabling Secure Boot on the Windows RT devices to discourage alternate OS use. I just can't lay blame at the efforts of Linux developers for that platform not working correctly, should it not.

 

[heatlesssun]

And... it's moving that way and is why I'm supportive of Valve. Valve bringing Steam to Linux has given it a monetizing app store that works (in that it is established and runs.) No doubt the next few months will be interesting for developers as they begin to push it. If it's successful, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for groups like Adobe to make "holy grail" software, like Photoshop, available. As unlikely as I think it would be to ever see OneNote on Linux, I guess I didn't expect to see it on OSX either, and there it is.

Same with hardware. If SteamMachines were to get traction (I'm honestly skeptical but hope they do well) then you'll see more direct support from corporate engineering types. "Why won't you use our chip in your console?" will be asked and the suits will hear "linux" and have a business decision to make that can only leave linux in a better spot than it is in today.
Go be an egg.. or chicken.. whatever one comes first.

We'll see. Desktop Linux is far from a new thing and I honestly don't see anything now that would change its fortunes in the mainstream market today any differently The an 10 or nearly 20 years ago. One could argue growing dissatisfaction of Windows but there's always been a vocal group that doesn't like Windows.

IMO, the Surface is just an outlier in the hardware discussion due to conflict of interests. Microsoft has zero reason to support Linux by choosing supported components, nor contributing code for what they created. They even went to the trouble of enabling Secure Boot on the Windows RT devices to discourage alternate OS use. I just can't lay blame at the efforts of Linux developers for that platform not working correctly, should it not.

I don't think Secure Boot is quite the evil plot some make it. All of the new PCs coming into where I work have to have it.

Of course PCs made by Microsoft are going to come with Windows. However the point is where are the cool and interesting PC designs running desktop Linux? One of the reasons Microsoft started the Surface line was to give OEMs some ideas and prodding to make better PCs. The consumer PC was simply too null of cheap generic plastic junk while Apple was making all of the great high-margin x86 devices. That simply had to change and Windows PC still have an image problem. But devices like the Surface line do go some ways to help that.

 

[jwcalla]

However the point is where are the cool and interesting PC designs running desktop Linux?

That's not going to happen because the future for PCs isn't very bright. It's a dying market except maybe in China.

Though IMO there hasn't been anything really cool and interesting in the PC space for years, but that's just because I'm not impressed by much. Monopolies don't exactly inspire innovation either, of course.

 

[heatlesssun]

That's not going to happen because the future for PCs isn't very bright. It's a dying market except maybe in China.

Though IMO there hasn't been anything really cool and interesting in the PC space for years, but that's just because I'm not impressed by much. Monopolies don't exactly inspire innovation either, of course.

With the rise of mobile there's obviously truth to what you're saying. But it's not just that. The market simply has been saturated and it's tough to sell new PCs solely on performance specs.

As for innovation. Been setting and putting this Surface Book through the paces all day. I know Tablet PCs and hybrid laptops are far from a new idea but there was a LOT of thought that went into this thing. Not saying it's perfect and it's not for everyone especially because of the price. But so far from what I've seen it does a ton of things very well, it beats the snot out of any convertible laptop I've ever used and I've used quite a few over the years.

It's certainly not the type of product typically born from a company that's complacent and it's nothing I would have ever thought Microsoft was capable of doing after seeing the first round of Surface devices from 3 years ago. I think that's what's most interesting about that line, nothing new yet it's evolved quickly and now Microsoft is doing pretty state of the art x86 designs. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

 

[flu!d]

Basing your experiences with a modern Linux Distro using s surface Pro 3 as an example just isn't going to work.

An OS is an OS, most applications are becoming more web focused meaning they work on a variety of platforms. Application support and quality of applications under Linux isn't as bad as you make them out to be - Coming from someone that runs both a Linux and a high end Windows PC. If you work in a niche professional field use whatever OS works best for you - But understand that you're the minority.

Bear in mind that almost the entire visual effects/animation industry is completely reliant on Linux.

And Red Hat in 1997 sucked balls, desktop Linux has changed considerably since then - IMO, as far as desktops are concerned, I think Windows has lagged behind with certain productive capabilities in comparison to Linux to be honest. Only with the advent of Windows 10 are they starting to catch up, at the expense of privacy.

I'm off to the wholesalers to pick up my copy of Windows 10 Professional as this Enterprise Evaluation I was trying out is about to expire.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Complaining that an OS doesn't work on niche hardware and software (Microsoft Surface, One Note) and using that to damn the OS overall seems rather silly to me.

But yes, Linux does not excel at everything. I'm not going to repost my post pointing out its strengths and weaknesses. The same goes for Windows, which has has many (MANY) shortcomings.

I - for one - don't care if you or anyone else uses Linux. Linux on the desktop is the superior choice for me Different people are going to have different needs.

It's just kind of annoying that every time anyone posts anything about Linux, like for instance this thread intending to compare distributions to each other. (Last I checked Windows is not a linux distribution), especially as it were, in the linux subforum, trolls feel the need to come in and bash linux because it doesn't do some obscure thing that no one uses, or it doesn't run on some obscure hardware that no one owns.

Yep, we know it's not for everyone, and that's fine. But for those of us it works for, we gain the benefit of a BY FAR more secure and stable platform, with a much smaller memory and disk footprint, and we like that.

So, if you like Windows as much as it sounds you do, you should continue using it. And that is fine. It seems silly to dismiss a platform with so many benefits based on trivialities, but still, its fine. W e don't care if you like or want to use linux.

Please just stop thread crapping on every single linux thread that winds up being started.

You guys are starting ton remind me of that one guy who thread craps on every screen thread that something is crap if it isn't a CRT, and video cards that don't have good CRT support are all junk.

 

[heatlesssun]

Complaining that an OS doesn't work on niche hardware and software (Microsoft Surface, One Note) and using that to damn the OS overall seems rather silly to me.

I'm far from the only one that's thought about Linux on a Surface device. Did you see that 30 minute video from a Linux guru going over the process for Ubuntu? The Surface line while niche has become very notable top line portable x86 hardware. Its not cheap but no one, not even Apple is doing any as creative and cool with portable x86 hardware so it's not a matter of demining anything. It's just a subject that draws a good deal of interest.

It's just kind of annoying that every time anyone posts anything about Linux, like for instance this thread intending to compare distributions to each other. (Last I checked Windows is not a linux distribution), especially as it were, in the linux subforum, trolls feel the need to come in and bash linux because it doesn't do some obscure thing that no one uses, or it doesn't run on some obscure hardware that no one owns.

So no one users OneNote or hybrid PCs? This is the kind of thinking that will assure lack of mainstream penetration for desktop Linux.

Basing your experiences with a modern Linux Distro using s surface Pro 3 as an example Application support and quality of applications under Linux isn't as bad as you make them out to be - Coming from someone that runs both a Linux and a high end Windows PC. If you work in a niche professional field use whatever OS works best for you - But understand that you're the minority.

Often when alternative software is mentioned in these types of discussions the software has Windows support. Two such that are frequently mentioned are GIMP and Libre Office. So what's the point of switching OSes for that? Most people couldn't care less about the OS and are much more interested in hardware and software support because those are the things that they use, the OS tends to fade to back. That's why support for top line hardware and software is important for mainstream adoption.

 

[Frobozz]

Often when alternative software is mentioned in these types of discussions the software has Windows support. Two such that are frequently mentioned are GIMP and Libre Office. So what's the point of switching OSes for that? Most people couldn't care less about the OS and are much more interested in hardware and software support because those are the things that they use, the OS tends to fade to back. That's why support for top line hardware and software is important for mainstream adoption.

nitpick, but.. it's an OS subforum. The point of it is for people to discuss the OS. Else it'd be a subforum under General Software. The primary topic is working with the OS.

GIMP and Libre Office let you image manipulate and do officey things WHILE running Linux, and so they come up in discussions about running Linux. I'm sure there's one out there, but largely no-one says they moved to Linux for the pleasure of GIMP and Libre Office. However, someone will need to crop an image or type a letter, so it comes up in conversation. I'm sure they're aware that it's available on another platform, but it just doesn't matter in the context created by the forum organization.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

nitpick, but.. it's an OS subforum. The point of it is for people to discuss the OS. Else it'd be a subforum under General Software. The primary topic is working with the OS.

GIMP and Libre Office let you image manipulate and do officey things WHILE running Linux, and so they come up in discussions about running Linux. I'm sure there's one out there, but largely no-one says they moved to Linux for the pleasure of GIMP and Libre Office. However, someone will need to crop an image or type a letter, so it comes up in conversation. I'm sure they're aware that it's available on another platform, but it just doesn't matter in the context created by the forum organization.

Exactly.

These pieces of software are brought up because they mean you can enjoy a superior operating system, and still do the work you need to do.

The operating system itself is the draw. These software packages make it livable, as otherwise you'd have to constantly dual boot in order to get your stuff done.

 

[heatlesssun]

Exactly.

These pieces of software are brought up because they mean you can enjoy a superior operating system, and still do the work you need to do.

The operating system itself is the draw. These software packages make it livable, as otherwise you'd have to constantly dual boot in order to get your stuff done.

If said operating system is so superior, why would one need to change what they are doing for apps they could use on the supposedly inferior operating system in addition to ones not available on the supposedly superior OS?

Most of the Linux alternatives that people mention in threads like this are supported by Windows and OS X. I use a number of these apps and I didn't need to change OSes or totally change everything I was doing to use them.

 

[Frobozz]

If said operating system is so superior, why would one need to change what they are doing for apps they could use on the supposedly inferior operating system in addition to ones not available on the supposedly superior OS?

Most of the Linux alternatives that people mention in threads like this are supported by Windows and OS X. I use a number of these apps and I didn't need to change OSes or totally change everything I was doing to use them.

Now you're just being "that guy." You've seen "that guy".. he's the one that goes to the Honda enthusiast forums and talks about how great Chevy is. Don't be "that guy."

There's any number of reasons to dislike Chevy.. err Microsoft... and it doesn't necessarily have to do with technical merit of the products.

 

[KarsusTG]

I don't know if I would call Linux or Microsoft "Superior" or "Inferior" to each other. Each has some pretty damning flaws and their own strengths.

But also without going into a niche field, you cant say you can do something on Windows or Linux that can't be done on the other either.

 

[heatlesssun]

Now you're just being "that guy." You've seen "that guy".. he's the one that goes to the Honda enthusiast forums and talks about how great Chevy is. Don't be "that guy."

There's any number of reasons to dislike Chevy.. err Microsoft... and it doesn't necessarily have to do with technical merit of the products.

If someone doesn't like Windows or Microsoft then more power to them. But when the subject of software like OneNote comes up and people compare to a sticky notes app or something for doodling, in a forum like this with a good number of people that swear by OneNote, you've just become "that guy".

There's nothing inherently wrong with desktop Linux. But the idea that powerful applications and hardware are niche or irrelevant and if people just stopped being lazy or stupid then they'd clearly see the greatness of Linux is not a winning argument. If it were world would have largely stopped using Windows years ago as the ecosystem is the really the only reason to use Windows.

 

[heatlesssun]

But also without going into a niche field, you cant say you can do something on Windows or Linux that can't be done on the other either.

In theory this is true. In theory a Windows Phone should be able to do everything an iPhone does except in reality it doesn't.

 

[Frobozz]

If someone doesn't like Windows or Microsoft then more power to them. But when the subject of software like OneNote comes up and people compare to a sticky notes app or something for doodling, in a forum like this with a good number of people that swear by OneNote, you've just become "that guy".

There's nothing inherently wrong with desktop Linux. But the idea that powerful applications and hardware are niche or irrelevant and if people just stopped being lazy or stupid then they'd clearly see the greatness of Linux is not a winning argument. If it were world would have largely stopped using Windows years ago as the ecosystem is the really the only reason to use Windows.

Wow. White knighting Microsoft OneNote... I think you've latched onto all of the 'off the trails' parts of this thread and are just being argumentative. There's really no discussion points to be had anymore that won't degenerate further.

 

[xorbe]

If I could find a native Linux app like OneNote ... man, I looked high and low. I threatened to write one myself, haha. Maybe I should kickerstarter or something. Twenty-three dollars later.

 

[kumquat]

OneNote is just an example. So is any legal/commercial Blu-ray player. So is Lightroom. So is Photoshop. So are Word, Excel, and Outlook. So are a dozen actual niche software products.

And... iTunes. There is no replacement for iTunes on Linux.

Yes, no one of these applications is required by most people, but when you add up all the people who really want at least one of them it's rather significant.

 

[KarsusTG]

In theory this is true. In theory a Windows Phone should be able to do everything an iPhone does except in reality it doesn't.

It's true a windows phone can do anything an iPhone can do. I know I had one. But you are comparing a sub $100 device against a $700+ device as if they were somehow equal. The software is not the only sum on the scale.

Fair disclosure (I have and do use windows and linux both regularly.) I even purchased a macbook pro when they first came out with intel processors because I could use it for work. That being said, there are very few reason why you MUST use one or the other.

 

[heatlesssun]

OneNote is just an example. So is any legal/commercial Blu-ray player. So is Lightroom. So is Photoshop. So are Word, Excel, and Outlook. So are a dozen actual niche software products.

And... iTunes. There is no replacement for iTunes on Linux.

Yes, no one of these applications is required by most people, but when you add up all the people who really want at least one of them it's rather significant.

It's just this simple.

 

[KarsusTG]

I will give you iTunes. The windows client of iTunes is frankly terrible as I am sure it is meant to be. Its really for OS X. My feelings with this program has always been "let people that fell into this trap stay in it."

Word/Excel/Outlook have linux equivalences. Unless you absolutely have to have it say Microsoft or (imo) are doing extensive work with access then you don't need office. I used Libre office in an office environment daily for over a year before anyone even knew I wasn't using Microsoft office.

Photoshop is unquestioningly a very niche program and unless you are doing it on a professional level there are pretty good Linux equivalences as well. You cannot say you cannot do photo editing on Linux without being disingenuous. It's just that one specific program set (Which if you need fine, use Mac or Windows.)

One note specifically was created to compete with Evernote which actually has a Linux based client (everpad?)

The only thing I will give you is BR players but that is because it's heavily laden with DRM which we should ALL be willing to stand up against on principle if nothing else. Even so, I rip my BR discs (on Linux) and watch them on Linux anyway. This is no barrier to entry as 99% of PC users are not watching their BR's on their desktops.

 

[ccman]

OneNote is just an example. So is any legal/commercial Blu-ray player. So is Lightroom. So is Photoshop. So are Word, Excel, and Outlook. So are a dozen actual niche software products.

And... iTunes. There is no replacement for iTunes on Linux.

Yes, no one of these applications is required by most people, but when you add up all the people who really want at least one of them it's rather significant.

One cannot conclude the superiority or inferiority of one operating system to another based on the third party software that is available for it.

The third party software is available for an operating system is not under the control of the operating system. The quality of the operating system does not directly relate to the third party software that is available for it.

It is not likely that Microsoft will release their products on Linux in general or targeted to a specific distribution of Linux in particular. It doesn't make sense for them. The cost of doing so or effort required isn't exceeded by the benefit, revenue, or profit of doing so. This is one of the direct conclusions you can make from the Microsoft products listed not being available in Linux. That Linux is necessarily worse than Windows as an operating system ("Software that controls the allocation and usage of hardware resources such as memory, CPU time, disk space, and input and output devices.") is not a conclusion you can draw. This analysis applies to other commercial software. The main goal in releasing commercial software is to make money from its sale and/or use. If the company doesn't think it can make money from the software, either directly or indirectly, it will not produce the software. If the software was technically correct and would not run on a particular operating system, then maybe you could say the underlying operating system is inferior. All other things being equal, if the software runs appreciably slower on one operating system than another, you could say that operating system is inferior in running that particular software (it could be that the software is not optimized for that OS, among other factors).

My feeling is another factor in commercial Blu-ray software not being available on Linux is the concern about the integrity of the Blu-ray DRM and the ability to duplicate the video. Other commercial software vendors may also have fears about preserving their IP that they do not feel can be satisfied by Linux.

There is also a general perception that Linux users are less willing, if not completely unwilling, to buy software. So if I'm Microsoft and am trying to go through a cost-benefit analysis and hold this belief, then I am going to require a benefit multiplier before I incur the cost. If I needed 1 million Windows users before I would produce it, I may require 1.5 million Linux users.

If you are a user who cannot part with the iWork Suite, GarageBand, Parallels, FileMaker, iMovie, etc., would you then say Microsoft Windows was completely inferior to Mac OS X? Is Mac OS X functionally equivalent to Windows because it has "OneNote, legal/commercial Blu-ray player, Lightroom, Photoshop, Word, Excel, and Outlook" and both clearly superior to Linux, Unix, XNU, etc?

Sound silly to me.

 

[heatlesssun]

I will give you iTunes. The windows client of iTunes is frankly terrible as I am sure it is meant to be. Its really for OS X. My feelings with this program has always been "let people that fell into this trap stay in it."

I personally haven't used iTunes in years but never had too many problems with it when I did. Not the best software.

Word/Excel/Outlook have linux equivalences. Unless you absolutely have to have it say
Microsoft or (imo) are doing extensive work with access then you don't need office. I used Libre office in an office environment daily for over a year before anyone even knew I wasn't using Microsoft office.

And again these alternatives already run on Windows and OS X. Buy yeah, Libre Office compared to Office 2016. That's a lost cause. The only similarity in is Office in the name. Office 2016 is just so much more comprehensive.

One note specifically was created to compete with Evernote which actually has a Linux based client (everpad?)

OneNote preceded Evermore I believe. OneNote got added to the Office Suite back in 2002 as perhaps the most significant piece of software to come out of the launch of the Tablet PC. There are a number of note taking apps and Evernote has it's strengths but it really, really shines on a pen enabled Windows device which isn't surprising because that's what it was initially lunched for.

The only thing I will give you is BR players but that is because it's heavily laden with DRM which we should ALL be willing to stand up against on principle if nothing else. Even so, I rip my BR discs (on Linux) and watch them on Linux anyway. This is no barrier to entry as 99% of PC users are not watching their BR's on their desktops.

And that's not Microsoft's or Linux's fault. There is I believe a lot of underestimating of stuff that some think no one is using around here. Again, if most people need or want this stuff we'd all be running Linux now.

 

[heatlesssun]

One cannot conclude the superiority or inferiority of one operating system to another based on the third party software that is available for it.

Whether or not this is true it's hardly the kind of thing that matters to average people. Computers are tools for most. Not a philosophical debate about the definition of superiority.

It is not likely that Microsoft will release their products on Linux in general or targeted to a specific distribution of Linux in particular. It doesn't make sense for them. The cost of doing so or effort required isn't exceeded by the benefit, revenue, or profit of doing so.

I agree. And if it's a problem for Microsoft it's probably a problem for most software developers who have nowhere near Microsoft's resources.

If you are a user who cannot part with the iWork Suite, GarageBand, Parallels, FileMaker, iMovie, etc., would you then say Microsoft Windows was completely inferior to Mac OS X? Is Mac OS X functionally equivalent to Windows because it has "OneNote, legal/commercial Blu-ray player, Lightroom, Photoshop, Word, Excel, and Outlook" and both clearly superior to Linux, Unix, XNU, etc?

Sound silly to me.

Apple's ecosystem is one reason why it has such a loyal following though it's much bigger on the mobile side but that does trickle down a bit to desktops/laptops.

 

[kumquat]

Word/Excel/Outlook have linux equivalences. Unless you absolutely have to have it say Microsoft or (imo) are doing extensive work with access then you don't need office. I used Libre office in an office environment daily for over a year before anyone even knew I wasn't using Microsoft office.

Photoshop is unquestioningly a very niche program and unless you are doing it on a professional level there are pretty good Linux equivalences as well. You cannot say you cannot do photo editing on Linux without being disingenuous. It's just that one specific program set (Which if you need fine, use Mac or Windows.)

One note specifically was created to compete with Evernote which actually has a Linux based client (everpad?)

The only thing I will give you is BR players but that is because it's heavily laden with DRM which we should ALL be willing to stand up against on principle if nothing else. Even so, I rip my BR discs (on Linux) and watch them on Linux anyway. This is no barrier to entry as 99% of PC users are not watching their BR's on their desktops.

If you do any work with other people, you're pretty much locked into MS Office. Compatibility between Word/Excel/PP and other programs is basically nonexistent.

OneNote was not created to compete with Evernote. OneNote predates Evernote by over a decade.

Photoshop is somewhat niche. Lightroom is less so. The majority of amateur and pro photogs alike, and there are a lot of them, use one or the other or both. Lightroom and Creative Cloud with Photoshop are pretty cheap. If you own a DSLR, you're pretty much excluded from Linux. Importing and processing raw photos on Linux is somewhere between impossible and painful.

And don't discount the value of iTunes. It's not at all necessary to have iTunes if you have an iPhone, but it does open up a lot of capabilities you wouldn't have without it, like syncing local content and backups.

So, yeah, my point stands. People like to pretend that 99+% of people can get away with Linux just fine, and that's simply not true.

 

[kumquat]

One cannot conclude the superiority or inferiority of one operating system to another based on the third party software that is available for it.

I never said one is superior to the other.

Linux is superior to Windows in many ways, and for many use cases.

 

[KarsusTG]

Pen enabled devices are a true strength of Windows. They have put a ton of R&D into it and I was impressed when I first used a pen on a SP3. If you used it frequently I would advocate you stay on windows. They are a fairly uncommon and expensive device though (in my experience.)

I can't argue that Office 2016 isn't more feature rich than Libre because thats just stupid, of course it is. It literally has millions of dollars in R&D behind it. I would never advocate a press secretary or someone making legal or financial documents for the heads of multi million/billion dollar companies use Libre. But for the majority of users doing homework, typing letters/correspondence, editing a resume, etc there is nothing in Office 2016 that Libre does not also provide.

I honestly never used OneNote/Evernote. I mostly just use actual notes because it has always served me well and I never needed to look for an alternative method.

I honestly think the great barriers to linux are not BD or Office/OneNote. I think it's difficulty and ease of use. As more third party support starts heading towards Linux I think we will slowly see this erode.

The great irony (imo) with BD not being supported on Linux is most people that are savvy enough to build a computer to watch blue-rays on while doing their work/surfing the web/etc are not likely to be playing from the disc. I have seen dozens of times the users that didn't know just watched on their BD Players and the ones that did know just ripped it and streamed it. HTPC's are basically designed for this tbh lol.

 

[kumquat]

FYI, the abbreviation for Blu-ray is BD, not BR. Took me a minute to figure out what you meant.

 

[KarsusTG]

If you do any work with other people, you're pretty much locked into MS Office. Compatibility between Word/Excel/PP and other programs is basically nonexistent.

OneNote was not created to compete with Evernote. OneNote predates Evernote by over a decade.

It's true. If you are stuck in a Microsoft Enterprise environment it's not advantageous to be the one Linux guy (for more than one reason) lol.

And you are right, OneNote came out in 2003 and Evernote in 2008. I thought those were reversed for some reason.

FYI, the abbreviation for Blu-ray is BD, not BR. Took me a minute to figure out what you meant.

Fixed. Sorry, Medicated + my general disdain for Sonys proprietary shit hehe.

 

[heatlesssun]

So, yeah, my point stands. People like to pretend that 99+% of people can get away with Linux just fine, and that's simply not true.

If OEMs could eschew Windows licensing and save that money and put free to install Linux on their PCs and 99% of their customers would have no problems with it they'd have done it a LONG time ago especially after all of the anti-trust issues Microsoft had. Indeed all of them make Chromebooks but those have done zilch outside of the primary education market because of their cost.

With Microsoft getting into high end devices now I imagine that all of the OEMs are looking for alternatives if and when the day comes that Microsoft gets into the mainstream PC market. Which is one reason why I don't think Microsoft is going to go there unless they absolutely have to.

 

[KarsusTG]

You guys should post up / redirect some of this energy into the Linux Programs thread. That thing had not been updated in like 5 years.

 

[ccman]

Whether or not this is true it's hardly the kind of thing that matters to average people. Computers are tools for most. Not a philosophical debate about the definition of superiority.

I agree. And if it's a problem for Microsoft it's probably a problem for most software developers who have nowhere near Microsoft's resources.

Apple's ecosystem is one reason why it has such a loyal following though it's much bigger on the mobile side but that does trickle down a bit to desktops/laptops.

I am not trying to have a philosophical debate. I am merely suggesting that if we're comparing Operating Systems, in an Operating System thread, we compare them as operating systems, not as collections of available software. At that point, you're talking about software ecosystems or App Stores, and this would be better discussed in a General Software thread. Also, how does this discussion help the original poster, who was looking for the Linux distribution which would be easiest to transition to from a Windows background.

Apparently your answer is none, it can't be done? Is your answer "there is no Linux distribution that is the easiest to transition to from windows, that is mostly set up out of the box"? Even this answer would seem implausible to me, as Ubuntu would be easier to transition to for a Windows user than Linux from Scratch, for example.

I am not the one who went on a "Best Linux distro... "best"" thread talking about software available for Windows. This seems asinine, but I guess I should expect this from a proud member of the Microsoft Defense Evangelist Activist Force (MS DEAF), one of the Microsoft shills.

 

[ccman]

If OEMs could eschew Windows licensing and save that money and put free to install Linux on their PCs and 99% of their customers would have no problems with it they'd have done it a LONG time ago especially after all of the anti-trust issues Microsoft had. Indeed all of them make Chromebooks but those have done zilch outside of the primary education market because of their cost.

With Microsoft getting into high end devices now I imagine that all of the OEMs are looking for alternatives if and when the day comes that Microsoft gets into the mainstream PC market. Which is one reason why I don't think Microsoft is going to go there unless they absolutely have to.

I own a Samsung Chromebook. I do not work in education. I have seen people using Chromebooks in Starbucks. Still haven't seen a single Surface Book or Surface Pro at Starbucks. Chromebooks would be great for parents with children, those who need a secure environment to access the internet, and possibly those concerned about using their laptop in an environment not under their control.

 

[kumquat]

I see Surface Pros all the time, although admittedly most devices I see at Starbucks are Macbooks or iPads.

Chromebooks occupy a weird mental space for me... not as useful as a laptop, but with the same form factor. Cheaper, I guess. OK for kids, as long as they have no interest in playing any computer games. I can't think of any time I'd use a Chromebook instead of either a laptop or a tablet.

 

[heatlesssun]

Pen enabled devices are a true strength of Windows. They have put a ton of R&D into it and I was impressed when I first used a pen on a SP3. If you used it frequently I would advocate you stay on windows. They are a fairly uncommon and expensive device though (in my experience.)

Digital pens seem to be enjoying something of a renascence since Microsoft tried to push them with their original Tablet PC concept in 2002. I think many people who saw them as useless thought the point was to replace a keyboard with a pen which was never the point. Of course a keyboard is going to be much more efficient for text entry. Now try doing a math problem, draw a picture or sketch out an idea with a keyboard. It's simply another way to interact with a device that's simple, time honored and natural when implemented will. It's not something everyone will use or need but for those that do, they will pay for the privilege.

But there are a number of good pen enabled Windows devices out there that are much cheaper than a Surface Pro or Surface Book. A decent Windows pen enabled device use to easily hit $2k not that long ago. I think that's one reason why they making a sit of comeback.

But for the majority of users doing homework, typing letters/correspondence, editing a resume, etc there is nothing in Office 2016 that Libre does not also provide.

Probably not but I'd never send a resume to someone done in Libre Office if they were asking for a Word .docx file. It should be fine but if it's not well, first impressions.

I honestly think the great barriers to linux are not BR or Office/OneNote. I think it's difficulty and ease of use. As more third party support starts heading towards Linux I think we will slowly see this erode.

But is this kind of contradicting itself? Web browsing I'm sure is the most common activity performed on a PC and it's just as easy to do that with Linux as Windows, maybe even more so on Linux because of the much lower chance of dealing with local malware. Again, it's all of those small scenarios where there's not support for this of that which is the biggest issue for mainstream adoption of desktop Linux. Of course more 3rd support makes it easier. But this situation has been slowing eroding away for almost 20 years now. How long is it going to take?

 

[heatlesssun]

You guys should post up / redirect some of this energy into the Linux Programs thread. That thing had not been updated in like 5 years.

And that's symbolic the problem. I saw you post over there and I have used a good deal of that list on Windows. It's great that these things exist and are mostly cross platform, I've donated to a couple in the past.

 

[ccman]

I never said one is superior to the other.

Linux is superior to Windows in many ways, and for many use cases.

Sorry, I misunderstood and made that assumption. It just seemed like ganging up on Linux because certain companies aren't releasing their software on it.

My interest in Linux has been my desire to be able to control or influence the way the operating system I'm using works. Also, I find that if I am not gaming, a lot of what I do on my laptop on my free time could be done on another platform. Someone who is an expert in Linux has much more power over their operating system than experts in Windows (excluding Microsoft employees with access to the Windows source code). It feels like Microsoft is inching towards a goal of wresting control and choice previously given of Windows from the users hands.