Information Systems high unemployment?

[DarkDubzs]

I saw this yahoo news article just now, basically listing 5 bachelors degrees... or college majors with high unemployment rates. Guess what, Information Systems happens to be number 1 on the list with a whopping 14.7% unemployment! My major!! It goes on to insinuate that IS is not the only degree with a grim outlook, basically everything in the Computer Science field. It then says that theres too many applicants, and the field is over saturated... makes sense, but as technology is constantly advancing and digitization is touching every aspect of our lives and the world, it cant stay like this can it? Im basically asking if this is accurate. Is it like this all over America, or just certain places, like i imagine the Silicon Valley in California would be like this, but what about the rest of California or America? Is the IS field really doomed as it seems to be by this article and as so many other people say?

Oh, and the freaking "alternative" to take is Nursing. How many people would even want to switch to a nursing career if they were actually really interested enough in IS to pursue a career in IS? But nursing is supposedly becoming in demand? I still wouldnt go after a Nursing career or any other alternative listed on the webpage.

Edit: And here yahoo says that an alternative career for a semiconductor processor should be a Database Admin. with an expected employment rate of 31%. Database Admin is a career that would fall under Information Systems, and you would get with an IS degree. So yahoo is contradicting itself right there. And i lurk Yahoo news at school, during classes we use computers with, too much during some down time, so i know that yahoo has been saying that careers in basically IS and CIS are good careers with bright futures and high pay and sunshine with rainbows, so what the fuck does it want to decide on? Sorry for that half rant lol.

Link: http://education.yahoo.net/articles/depressing_bachelors_degrees.htm?kid=1O29X
Image, in case webpage goes down or changes... just as insurance: http://imgur.com/rqU8Ywd

 

[Dangman]

As a Southern Californian and someone with a Computer Information Systems degree, yes I believe the accuracy of that article in relation to the job market for those with CIS degrees in Southern California. Can't say about any other region though.

 

[DarkDubzs]

As a Southern Californian and someone with a Computer Information Systems degree, yes I believe the accuracy of that article in relation to the job market for those with CIS degrees in Southern California. Can't say about any other region though.

Well thats not what i wanted to hear at all, since i also live in SoCal. OC to be more specific.

 

[Eickst]

Here in the Dallas area it's much much lower. I can't find the article but a few months ago I read it was below 2 percent which fits with our recent hiring attempts.

 

[almalino]

May be those are Project/Business Managers in IM? Those have no clue about SW design or network management and as a result - unemployed

 

[NetJunkie]

May be those are Project/Business Managers in IM? Those have no clue about SW design or network management and as a result - unemployed

Good PMs are very hard to find. We hire every one we can find for good money.

 

[almalino]

Good PMs are very hard to find. We hire every one we can find for good money.

You can say this about any profession.

 

[cyr0n_k0r]

This article is BS. The real problem is that recent grads come out of school with no experience and turn their nose up at helpdesk or other entry level jobs. They think because they sat in a chair for 4 years and covered some Java scripting, and a few classes on the difference between a switch and a router that they are somehow going to make 70k immediately.

These students need to be a bit more realistic with their job and salary expectations those first few years out of college.

When we were looking for a Network Engineer with a few years experience we had the position open for 2 weeks and only got 5 applicants. 3 were from out of state.

 

[Red Squirrel]

This article is BS. The real problem is that recent grads come out of school with no experience and turn their nose up at helpdesk or other entry level jobs. They think because they sat in a chair for 4 years and covered some Java scripting, and a few classes on the difference between a switch and a router that they are somehow going to make 70k immediately.

These students need to be a bit more realistic with their job and salary expectations those first few years out of college.

When we were looking for a Network Engineer with a few years experience we had the position open for 2 weeks and only got 5 applicants. 3 were from out of state.

Funny thing is these people tend to take really expensive specialized degrees too. You have to think from the point of view of a hiring manager. Chances are you want to hire someone within the company first before you even put the job to the public. Usually how it works is a company will post it internally for 1-2 weeks, if nobody qualified enough applies then they'll post it externally. Normally someone internal will get the higher end jobs, that causes a shuffle and leaves an entry position job open which is more likely to get posted externally. That's the ones students should be striving for, with the intention of moving up.

IS/IT is kinda iffy these days though, so many companies are outsourcing or using TFW's now. I am lucky to have the job I have, but I always worry about what will happen if my company decides to outsource or relocate it. But it seems no job is really secure these days unless you have to physically be there such as a contractor. People make fun of trades sometimes, but those are probably the most secure jobs.

 

[mi7chy]

There is truth to his not only due to saturation but also due to push for outsourcing, virtualization and cloud. A good example is desktop support staff will be shrunken down even more with push from physical desktop to VDI. And, it goes up the chain with SDN for networking and IT in general with outsourcing to Amazon and Google SaaS instead of building your own infrastructure in-house. Your only safe IT jobs will be developers and admins and only safe employers are Amazon, Google, etc.

 

[Dark Shade]

Tons of sysadmin jobs here in Atlanta. I have to swat away recruiters regularly because most are contract positions and I'm full-time.

Nursing is always in demand, that's like saying 'water is wet'. Aging baby boomer population, hello nurse!

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

I saw this yahoo news article just now, basically listing 5 bachelors degrees... or college majors with high unemployment rates. Guess what, Information Systems happens to be number 1 on the list with a whopping 14.7% unemployment! My major!! It goes on to insinuate that IS is not the only degree with a grim outlook, basically everything in the Computer Science field. It then says that theres too many applicants, and the field is over saturated... makes sense, but as technology is constantly advancing and digitization is touching every aspect of our lives and the world, it cant stay like this can it? Im basically asking if this is accurate. Is it like this all over America, or just certain places, like i imagine the Silicon Valley in California would be like this, but what about the rest of California or America? Is the IS field really doomed as it seems to be by this article and as so many other people say?

Oh, and the freaking "alternative" to take is Nursing. How many people would even want to switch to a nursing career if they were actually really interested enough in IS to pursue a career in IS? But nursing is supposedly becoming in demand? I still wouldnt go after a Nursing career or any other alternative listed on the webpage.

Edit: And here yahoo says that an alternative career for a semiconductor processor should be a Database Admin. with an expected employment rate of 31%. Database Admin is a career that would fall under Information Systems, and you would get with an IS degree. So yahoo is contradicting itself right there. And i lurk Yahoo news at school, during classes we use computers with, too much during some down time, so i know that yahoo has been saying that careers in basically IS and CIS are good careers with bright futures and high pay and sunshine with rainbows, so what the fuck does it want to decide on? Sorry for that half rant lol.

Link: http://education.yahoo.net/articles/depressing_bachelors_degrees.htm?kid=1O29X
Image, in case webpage goes down or changes... just as insurance: http://imgur.com/rqU8Ywd

Actually I switched from a IS career in college to a nursing related field. I have always worked in medical so the choice was easy.

Glad I did. ALL of my IS major friends are currently under employed or un employed. I have never been a short of a job in the nursing field.

And yesbit is rather common now for men to be in the field.

 

[shade91]

This article is BS. The real problem is that recent grads come out of school with no experience and turn their nose up at helpdesk or other entry level jobs. They think because they sat in a chair for 4 years and covered some Java scripting, and a few classes on the difference between a switch and a router that they are somehow going to make 70k immediately.

This nails it on the head.

I saw this yahoo news article just now, basically listing 5 bachelors degrees... or college majors with high unemployment rates. Guess what, Information Systems happens to be number 1 on the list with a whopping 14.7% unemployment! My major!! It goes on to insinuate that IS is not the only degree with a grim outlook, basically everything in the Computer Science field. It then says that theres too many applicants, and the field is over saturated... makes sense, but as technology is constantly advancing and digitization is touching every aspect of our lives and the world, it cant stay like this can it? Im basically asking if this is accurate. Is it like this all over America, or just certain places, like i imagine the Silicon Valley in California would be like this, but what about the rest of California or America? Is the IS field really doomed as it seems to be by this article and as so many other people say?

There are more jobs than qualified people in Silicon Valley and San Francisco. Companies in San Francisco are poaching low-level system admins with 4-7 years of experience because there's so few of them available. The industry is rife with job hoppers who are hopping around trying to max their salaries. It is not uncommon for a system admin with 7-10 years of experience making $120k/year in the city. I just lost a system admin who was poached by a San Francisco company. He was with me for 6 months and was with his prior job before that for 5 years.

You need to consider your source too. Yahoo News is riddled with a bunch of talking head idiots who I wouldn't trust with reporting a school yard fight.

Oh, and the freaking "alternative" to take is Nursing. How many people would even want to switch to a nursing career if they were actually really interested enough in IS to pursue a career in IS? But nursing is supposedly becoming in demand? I still wouldnt go after a Nursing career or any other alternative listed on the webpage.

There is no such thing as a happy nurse. They all hate their jobs. This is the elephant in the corner of that industry. Young women flock to nursing though most end up hating their career. Honestly, who would want a job swapping shit and pee-filled bed pans and dealing with senile geriatrics?

 

[ktr]

Eh, not surprising. There is a shortage of Nurses in the U.S. and IS jobs are typically outsourced to India and China.

Check this out: http://www.globalknowledge.com/training/generic.asp?pageid=3640&country=United+States

There are many certs in the industry that will get you into great paying jobs.

 

[DarkDubzs]

So would you guys say that an IS career is a dead end career? Is it dying? Is it doomed to be all outsourced and overcompetetive? From all the negative stuff people say about IT and Networking careers, i just feel like abandoning it, but i really cant at the same time. So what exactly are you guys saying? That its just kinda tough... or that it is dying in America and that i shouldn't even bother going after the career? If it matters, at first i want a help desk type job, then move up to becoming a System Admin, and just go with the flow trying to advance higher, right now i feel i want to ultimately become a Network Engineer. I really just want to plan out and build networks and maintain them, like a client or my company needs to build a new LAN or WAN or change it, then i think how it would work out physically, like start with the ISP>modem>router>bridge/router/etc. and build it... what kind of job would that really be? Because thats kinda what i want to do.

 

[shade91]

So would you guys say that an IS career is a dead end career? Is it dying? Is it doomed to be all outsourced and overcompetetive?

No. That's not what they're saying. Go to CyberCoders.com. They're one of many recruiting services that are flooded with open positions and they often struggle to fill many of them due to the low number of people entering this profession. The executive positions are easier for them to fill because everybody wants to be an IT executive. People notoriously job hop to move up the chain and achieve their career goals of being Mr. High Paid Executive. The company I work for has close to 90 open projects on the table and we struggle like hell to fill open positions because we're competing with tech companies all over San Francisco who pay top dollar for a talented network engineer or system's engineer with up to 5-7 years experience. I found one job opening that was offering $200k/yr for a network/systems engineer with a deep coding background (for automation).

From all the negative stuff people say about IT and Networking careers, i just feel like abandoning it, but i really cant at the same time. So what exactly are you guys saying? That its just kinda tough... or that it is dying in America and that i shouldn't even bother going after the career? If it matters, at first i want a help desk type job, then move up to becoming a System Admin, and just go with the flow trying to advance higher, right now i feel i want to ultimately become a Network Engineer. I really just want to plan out and build networks and maintain them, like a client or my company needs to build a new LAN or WAN or change it, then i think how it would work out physically, like start with the ISP>modem>router>bridge/router/etc. and build it... what kind of job would that really be? Because thats kinda what i want to do.

Here's my advice to you if your career path is network engineering:

1) Get an education

2) Get certifications (CCNP R&S + CCNP DC at a minimum, CISSP if you want to branch in to security management or CEH for network security engineering, ITIL v3 foundations as well to learn the best practices for service management)

3) Start at the bottom at a data center and work your ass off getting experience.

4) Study scripting languages (bash, python, etc) - automation is big right now.

Those steps will land you a six figure job in Silicon Valley or San Francisco. Anywhere else and you're looking at maybe $80k/year. Few places outsource domestically or internationally. If they do, it is often massive enterprises where the ship is so big that shit support at the service desk doesn't permeate through the organization.

 

[wizdum]

This article is BS. The real problem is that recent grads come out of school with no experience and turn their nose up at helpdesk or other entry level jobs. They think because they sat in a chair for 4 years and covered some Java scripting, and a few classes on the difference between a switch and a router that they are somehow going to make 70k immediately.

These students need to be a bit more realistic with their job and salary expectations those first few years out of college.

When we were looking for a Network Engineer with a few years experience we had the position open for 2 weeks and only got 5 applicants. 3 were from out of state.

As someone that recently entered the workforce, I can say that theres another side to this.

To get one of those entry level helpdesk jobs you only need a GED and maybe an A+ cert. Thus, the low-level helpdesk jobs are all being taken by high school graduates (who have much more free time than college students), and the higher level IT jobs all require several years of experience...which you can't get because all the entry-level jobs have been taken by high school graduates. See the problem? Its almost a waste of time to go to college because it prevents you from getting experience, which is what companies are actually looking for.

 

[cyr0n_k0r]

To get one of those entry level helpdesk jobs you only need a GED and maybe an A+ cert. Thus, the low-level helpdesk jobs are all being taken by high school graduates (who have much more free time than college students), and the higher level IT jobs all require several years of experience...which you can't get because all the entry-level jobs have been taken by high school graduates. See the problem? Its almost a waste of time to go to college because it prevents you from getting experience, which is what companies are actually looking for.

That's why you get a part time job in your expected field (in IT) in college. Going to college full time for a CIS degree while working at a subway or gas station part time for 4 years is a huge disservice to your career.

 

[DarkDubzs]

As someone that recently entered the workforce, I can say that theres another side to this.

To get one of those entry level helpdesk jobs you only need a GED and maybe an A+ cert. Thus, the low-level helpdesk jobs are all being taken by high school graduates (who have much more free time than college students), and the higher level IT jobs all require several years of experience...which you can't get because all the entry-level jobs have been taken by high school graduates. See the problem? Its almost a waste of time to go to college because it prevents you from getting experience, which is what companies are actually looking for.

Wouldnt it be better for the company to let go the worker with lower qualifications than an applicant with higher qualifications? Or is that just too costly and illegal?

 

[DarkDubzs]

Its almost a waste of time to go to college because it prevents you from getting experience, which is what companies are actually looking for.

Thats why im gonna have to look for a job or internship in IT during college. School gets you all the school knowledge, job gets you real life experience. But apparently the problem is getting a job. I hope its not as bad as it seems, atleast where i live. My cousin actually got his first job in IT at the police department, he was basically the computer guy, and he says he would also help with problems with the cruisers... kinda off topic of IT, but it makes you stand out and youre just helping out even more. I would have never though the police department would have an IT guy or department... idk how that adds to this, but i thought it was cool lol. Anyways, maybe he can help me get a job?? He got a CIS degree too, so he can probably drop some tips and connections my way, at least help and advice. He's a professor now.

 

[Dogs]

"Too many job applicants, not enough spots" LOL

Hitting our hiring targets has been literally impossible, where I work. We pay massive salaries and sweep up as much of the talent in the area as we can, and yet we still can't hire enough people. When I jumped ship to join the company I'm at now, it's because they offered me about 70% more than I was making at my last job, and I've gotten around 10% more in pay increases since then. If the job market were over-saturated, I feel like I wouldn't be getting such lucrative offers. From the sounds of it, we're not alone in the 'we can't find enough hire-worthy candidates no matter what we try' boat.

automation is big right now

Big, as in, anything which can be automated will be automated. Paying a server admin an enormous salary to be lazy, stupid, slow and make mistakes all the time is uneconomical when I can come along and make a computer do it automatically, which is much faster, much less error prone, and surprisingly, the computer doesn't ask for 6 weeks paid vacation and an 8% bonus every year. Problem solving is in and button pushing is out. Until they find a way to automate automating things, scripting and programming will be far more valuable skills than 'configuring'. Computers can't design systems or troubleshoot production problems, so if you're going to get good at something, pick one of those two. Don't plan on getting a job 'pushing software updates' or 'installing server software'.

 

[ktr]

As long there is technology, there will be a need for IT. But you need to differentiate from the pack and specialize in a hot technology. Things like networking, database, virtualization, automation, and security are huge and continue to grow rapidly. Aiming for a help desk position or trying to be "that computer guy" is setting low aspirations for yourself. Aim higher.

 

[squishy]

I can only speak to my view here in Silicon Valley, though not to recent grads as I don't know any.

I've been working in the valley for 20 years and know quite a few sysadmins, some even long retired (read: very wealthy). If you have the experience, personality, and actually know what you're doing (not necessarily related to experience), good paying jobs (read: 130K+) are relatively easy to come by.

 

[shade91]

That's why you get a part time job in your expected field (in IT) in college. Going to college full time for a CIS degree while working at a subway or gas station part time for 4 years is a huge disservice to your career.

Most IT executives I've come across don't even have a CS degree. The vast majority seem to have utterly pointless degrees like poli sci, economics, business administration, etc. The combination that I've seen that is a consistent win is a degree in any field (with exception to liberal arts, music, etc) with an MBA in finance or management strategy.

 

[Dogs]

The vast majority seem to have utterly pointless degrees like poli sci, economics, business administration, etc.

Them there is fightin' words. Boldly ignorant fightin' words, I would like to add.

 

[NetJunkie]

I wish I had a finance or good business administration degree now. For a lot of IT the technical aspects change...but if I had a better understanding of the financial aspects of my customers I could do a lot more. In the end the IT strategy for a company is really about the financial strategy.

 

[shade91]

Them there is fightin' words. Boldly ignorant fightin' words, I would like to add.

If it is an economics degree with a focus in accounting, I take back them words, if it isn't, yes your econ degree is useless in virtually all aspects of IT with exception to getting hired in IT.

I wish I had a finance or good business administration degree now. For a lot of IT the technical aspects change...but if I had a better understanding of the financial aspects of my customers I could do a lot more. In the end the IT strategy for a company is really about the financial strategy.

Oh puhleez, cry me a river here! You're the CTO of a highly-respected and renowned IT VAR! (You have my utmost respect here sir)

Ok, now that I've gotten that out of the way, let me add that you are 1/4 right. The IT strategy for a company highly depends on how leveraged the company is on technology. Companies can be highly successful and have virtually nil investment in their IT divisions. In that case their IT strategy is nothing to the point that their IT Director is viewed as a low-level guy in the organization and a CIO doesn't even exist. Your knowledge of business finance and how to manage it strategically on a road map and planning level are really what allow you to gravitate to a CIO level. Keep in mind most CIO's are also application people and not infrastructure or service desk people. Why? Apps are far more key to a business than the underlying IT infrastructure. If you want to become a CIO, aim for being an apps guy.

 

[Dogs]

If it is an economics degree with a focus in accounting, I take back them words, if it isn't, yes your econ degree is useless in virtually all aspects of IT with exception to getting hired in IT.

What particular aspects of someone well educated in economics do you find to be useless? The problem solving skills? The strong understanding of how organizations work? The strong understanding of how markets work? The strong understanding of rational decision making? The strong understanding of mathematical models?

I have to imagine that it takes someone who is either extremely closed-minded, or someone who is extremely ignorant of what economics actually involves, to decide that an education in economics is 'useless in virtually all aspects of IT'.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Most IT executives I've come across don't even have a CS degree. The vast majority seem to have utterly pointless degrees like poli sci, economics, business administration, etc. The combination that I've seen that is a consistent win is a degree in any field (with exception to liberal arts, music, etc) with an MBA in finance or management strategy.

I guess back in the day (before my time possibly too) you didnt really need to to have a CS or IT degree to get into the industry, but its not like that anymore, atleast not for the hundreds of IT/IS jobs i find online, they all require a bachelors in CS or CIS... the only ones that require a CS degree only are the programming and software design/development jobs, but thats not what i want to do anyways so thats kinda irrelevant. Also, even though you may be correct, it wouldnt make sense for me to go to college and get some economics or English degree when im going to go afrer an IT career path... and i also wont learn shat about IT.
P.S. In the Cal State system, CSU, most of the CIS degrees are minors or concentrations within the Business Administration major, which makes a lot of sense if you get down to it.

I wish I had a finance or good business administration degree now. For a lot of IT the technical aspects change...but if I had a better understanding of the financial aspects of my customers I could do a lot more. In the end the IT strategy for a company is really about the financial strategy.

Agreed with you here. First of all, like i said above, in the Cal State system, with the exception of CSULA and CSUC, Computer Information Systems is a minor or concentration under Business Administration. This is actually a great thing if you ask me, because not only do you learn all the good stuff about CIS, but you also learn plenty of business theories, practices, and just good business overall. Ive actually learned that today IT is probably 50% business and 50% actual practice of the skills. If you think about it and use some common sense i guess, it makes sense. It doesnt hurt that i really like business too. I may even try and get Real Estate to be my backup or second career, but thats in the back of my mind right now.

@NetJunkie: Youre a CTO!?

Damn, mind sharing some of your endless wisdom, master?

 

[shade91]

What particular aspects of someone well educated in economics do you find to be useless? The problem solving skills? The strong understanding of how organizations work? The strong understanding of how markets work? The strong understanding of rational decision making? The strong understanding of mathematical models?

The skills in red that you listed are the only ones truly relevant to a degree in econ. Don't kid yourself if you think you need a degree in econ to learn problem solving skills or how an organization works.

I've yet to see a CIO (and I've worked directly with several) pull out a complex mathematical model or tout his economic understanding of markets to develop the overall IT strategy for an organization. You're completely out of the loop if you think they do.

Your economics degree is better suited at the CFO level.

I have to imagine that it takes someone who is either extremely closed-minded, or someone who is extremely ignorant of what economics actually involves, to decide that an education in economics is 'useless in virtually all aspects of IT'.

Experience has taught me that you are simply delusional and don't understand what is involved at the CIO level of a Fortune 500 company.

@NetJunkie: Youre a CTO!? Damn, mind sharing some of your endless wisdom, master?

Yeah he's the CTO at Varrow (www.varrow.com). He also does training videos too for PluralSight (formerly TrainSignal) which I've used for my engineering teams rather than send them for ridiculously overpriced in-person classes (class cost + travel cost = $$$). Conference room training and a dev lab is considerably cheaper. I recognized the name as I personally used the UCS training set with my company's UCS dev lab to initially learn UCS. He's badass and I have huge respect for him. I feel bad for previously giving him shit on here though I find that I'm an equal opportunity a-hole and just didn't know NetJunkie was him.

 

[DarkDubzs]

The skills in red that you listed are the only ones truly relevant to a degree in econ. Don't kid yourself if you think you need a degree in econ to learn problem solving skills or how an organization works.

I've yet to see a CIO (and I've worked directly with several) pull out a complex mathematical model or tout his economic understanding of markets to develop the overall IT strategy for an organization. You're completely out of the loop if you think they do.

Your economics degree is better suited at the CFO level.

I dont want to add to the fire or take sides, im on my own , but i agree with literally 100% of what shade91 said here. Just felt like i had to make that known...?

 

[Dogs]

The skills in red that you listed are the only ones truly relevant to a degree in econ. Don't kid yourself if you think you need a degree in econ to learn problem solving skills or how an organization works.

You don't need a degree in econ....but that doesn't mean you can't get those from a degree in econ. Studying economics gives you the ability to understand the consequences of policies and decisions, the ability to see how various factors can be leveraged to provide advantage, and the skills necessary to make decisions in the best interest of an entity. And given the quantitative nature of most sub-fields of economics, I don't know how you can sit there and say problem solving isn't relevant to economics. That's just absurd.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded that anybody can be so vehemently insistent that something they're so clearly uninformed about could never be of use to anyone in an incredibly broad field.

I've yet to see a CIO (and I've worked directly with several) pull out a complex mathematical model or tout his economic understanding of markets to develop the overall IT strategy for an organization.

Sure, but economics isn't limited to those areas, and if you had even the faintest understanding of economics, you'd know that. Why don't you google 'industrial organization', and come back and tell me that a CIO can't benefit from an education in economics.

Experience has taught me that you are simply delusional and don't understand what is involved at the CIO level of a Fortune 500 company.

My experience tells me that you're lacking a fundamental understanding of economics, yet somehow convinced you're proficient enough to tell people that it's useless.

 

[stm]

Agreed with you here. First of all, like i said above, in the Cal State system, with the exception of CSULA and CSUC, Computer Information Systems is a minor or concentration under Business Administration. This is actually a great thing if you ask me, because not only do you learn all the good stuff about CIS, but you also learn plenty of business theories, practices, and just good business overall. Ive actually learned that today IT is probably 50% business and 50% actual practice of the skills. If you think about it and use some common sense i guess, it makes sense. It doesnt hurt that i really like business too. I may even try and get Real Estate to be my backup or second career, but thats in the back of my mind right now.

It sounds like you are a good candidate to be an IS person. I've always leaned towards the business and people side, and programming day in and out did not appeal to me. What some others have pointed out earlier though is great advice, in terms of getting practical experience. A college degree by itself, is not sufficient if you want to be successful. I find that our IS students that don't place, generally had very little IT related work experience.

Now this is not to say that there were lazy (of course there are the entitled ones), but IS can kind of be jack of all trades master of none. Companies tend to hire at the entry level, for technical positions, or for support positions. Kind of hard to compete with the technical side with many IS programs. The topics where traditional IS does concentrate, project management & systems development are ones where noone's going to hire a fresh graduate without experience for.

If you have interest in the topic, consider in your free time reading Carr (2003) IT Doesn't Matter. Also a follow up piece Carr (2005) The End of Corporate Computing. They're pretty good pieces that describe the world we live in today.

 

[wizdum]

I guess back in the day (before my time possibly too) you didnt really need to to have a CS or IT degree to get into the industry, but its not like that anymore, atleast not for the hundreds of IT/IS jobs i find online, they all require a bachelors in CS or CIS... the only ones that require a CS degree only are the programming and software design/development jobs, but thats not what i want to do anyways so thats kinda irrelevant. Also, even though you may be correct, it wouldnt make sense for me to go to college and get some economics or English degree when im going to go afrer an IT career path... and i also wont learn shat about IT.
P.S. In the Cal State system, CSU, most of the CIS degrees are minors or concentrations within the Business Administration major, which makes a lot of sense if you get down to it.


Agreed with you here. First of all, like i said above, in the Cal State system, with the exception of CSULA and CSUC, Computer Information Systems is a minor or concentration under Business Administration. This is actually a great thing if you ask me, because not only do you learn all the good stuff about CIS, but you also learn plenty of business theories, practices, and just good business overall. Ive actually learned that today IT is probably 50% business and 50% actual practice of the skills. If you think about it and use some common sense i guess, it makes sense. It doesnt hurt that i really like business too. I may even try and get Real Estate to be my backup or second career, but thats in the back of my mind right now.

@NetJunkie: Youre a CTO!?

Damn, mind sharing some of your endless wisdom, master?

CIS was also under the School of Business and Accounting at my university. The business courses have been invaluable so far.

 

[Tai]

If anyone is looking for free labor in the Dallas/FW area, please PM me. I'm willing to work for free to gain knowledge and experience.

Edit: I have my resume ready. Just PM me. Thanks

 

[Azzkiker]

If anyone is looking for free labor in the Dallas/FW area, please PM me. I'm willing to work for free to gain knowledge and experience.

Edit: I have my resume ready. Just PM me. Thanks

Please tell me you're joking.

I understand your needs, but this kind of thing can serve to depress wages at the entry level for everyone around you.

Giving away skilled labor for a resume boost is taking away a little bit from everyone around you, for you to get a resume boost.

Dont do this... please. I left the IT industry years ago to pursue a career in aviation. At the bottom levels of aviation people are outrageously underpaid, because so many are willing to give away their work for a chance to build time and meet insurance requirements.

In 1975 a B707 captain averaged about $50k per year, which is over $200,000 in todays money. Today a captain of a similar sized aircraft would be fortunate to make much more than $100k.

Every time you get on a regional airline, look at your captain and co-pilot, then think about this... their combined salary is probably far less $100k. The captain might be getting $50k, and the copilot $30k, for full time work. It wasn't always this way, but when the glamor of being an airline captain began to inspire people in the 70s, young people began working for nothing at the chance of achieving that status.

http://www.buzzsawmag.org/2010/03/02/high-altitudes-low-wages/

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2009/db20090515_727280.htm

 

[RESTfulADI]

Senior level IT jobs in MD/DC/NoVA are plentiful if you know where to look and have what it takes. These studies often mix all "Information Systems" careers into one stat and it really skews the numbers. There are many people who get their IS degree then stop learning, they don't make it far and get recycled all the time.

The company I work for now has had five spots for over 6 months and my previous company would hire a superstar even if they had to find something for him to do . But the quality of candidates is lacking. I've seen many applicants who look good on paper but aren't experts or have no plans on becoming experts. Some have a very narrow skill set and we can't bill even near full-time for them and some have poor consulting skills. They typically don't get offered a job and it's not the industry's fault, good engineers, PMs, and account managers do very well in this area.

 

[cyr0n_k0r]

Some have a very narrow skill set and we can't bill even near full-time for them and some have poor consulting skills.

Really what they have is poor 'people' skills. I've interviewed my fair share of engineers and technicians and we typically always try and have at least 1 female as part of the interview committee because often times they get a 'creepy' vibe from some of these guys.
We've ignored those vibes in the past and been bitten because we find out weeks later that people start complaining about that creepy new IT guy.

I really wish public speaking and other social science classes would be required for IS degrees. Not every IT job lets you sit in an office and code all day and never talk to people other than your supervisor.

 

[wizdum]

Really what they have is poor 'people' skills. I've interviewed my fair share of engineers and technicians and we typically always try and have at least 1 female as part of the interview committee because often times they get a 'creepy' vibe from some of these guys.
We've ignored those vibes in the past and been bitten because we find out weeks later that people start complaining about that creepy new IT guy.

I really wish public speaking and other social science classes would be required for IS degrees. Not every IT job lets you sit in an office and code all day and never talk to people other than your supervisor.

Public speaking is a required course in every IS degree that I have seen, a lot of people are just really bad at it.

 

[marshac]

The medical field is a bubble waiting to pop, just like tech was in the late 90s. We're moving for my medical residency and my wife who is an experienced peds/NICU nurse can't find a job where we're moving to (Salt Lake City). There are about a half-dozen nursing schools in the area flooding the market with new grads- the market is utterly saturated. Where we live now there are two nursing programs pumping out grads- I know several unemployed nurses looking for work, but the local hospitals are lobbying to hire nurses from the Philippines because they "can't find enough nurses"...... for what they want to pay of course. I think physicians are a bit more insulated due to higher barriers to entry and the fact that the number of residency programs are essentially fixed, but even still- States keep expanding the scope of practice for midlevel providers while decrying the lack of healthcare access (PAs, ARNPs)- these midlevels work for less money (but you the consumer are charged the same as if you had seen a Dr) depressing wages in the primary care field.... which simply serves to disincentivizes physicians from choosing a career in primary care.

Bottom line- nursing can be a rewarding career if you have the personality for it, but the job market isn't all rainbows and unicorns as it's often portrayed.