Verizon Sends Angry Letters to 10TB FiOS Users

Ducman69 said:
Screw that, he did NOTHING wrong.

Verizon and these other assholes need to stop the false advertising and advertise what they are WILLING to sell. Verizon knows they can't deliver unlimited of anything, no company can, so tell your marketing people to eat a dick and advertise TRUTHFULLY!

If they want to limit users to 5TB a month, just advertise that upfront! Don't pretend that people USING unlimited service which you advertised to them as unlimited are somehow doing something wrong.
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Running a server on a residential connection is wrong it violates pretty much any residential TOS for broadband from any provider. He moved from business class to residential class knowing this and to save money. He did plenty of things wrong. Plus you're bitching about isps advertising unlimited? Have you ever seen phone ads read the TOS they are not unlimited they are defined in user contracts.

If i were to complain about things ISPs do is caps and their profit margins, caps do not eliminate the problem of users like him it's them overselling lines so they can't deliver when users like him abuse their position, throttling would be the proper response as opposed to capping, but you can charge users if you cap you can't charge users if you throttle, again profit deal.
 
Why are so many people focusing on the amount of bandwidth he used? It's a straw-man. He violated the TOS by running a server and Verizon is telling him to upgrade to a business connection or cut it out. If this dude can afford enough equipment to need 77TB/mo he can probably afford another $100 for an appropriate connection.
 
If they truely don't want people using that then they should just cap it, but cap it really high. instead of a crappy 200GB cap, just cap it at like 5TB. I guess it's the notion that when people see there's a cap they are turned off, but they should not be allowed to advertise no cap when there really is one.

But yeah, 10TB is quite a lot of data! But if this is a fast connection then it would not be hard to reach that. I've reached over 200GB on my 8/1 DSL. I'll be getting fibre soon (I soooo can't wait! 50/30 FTW!) and I'm sure I'll be hitting 100+ GB quite easily. I can probably hit a couple TB if I try. Though, the ToS does say they can send you a notice if they feel you are using excessive bandwidth. So if verizon has this in their ToS then they are being reasonable. Though, I still think ISPs should just advertise it as "soft cap of 10 TB" or w/e they feel makes sense.
 
CEpeep said:
Why are so many people focusing on the amount of bandwidth he used? It's a straw-man. He violated the TOS by running a server and Verizon is telling him to upgrade to a business connection or cut it out. If this dude can afford enough equipment to need 77TB/mo he can probably afford another $100 for an appropriate connection.
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Actually, there is a lot more to it than that....Ive been following this on another forum for over a week now...and the bottom line is they dont want his business at all.....
 
Crosshairs said:
Actually, there is a lot more to it than that....Ive been following this on another forum for over a week now...and the bottom line is they dont want his business at all.....
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From something reported before his connection was already removed and he used a family members name to get it back?
 
Trimlock said:
From something reported before his connection was already removed and he used a family members name to get it back?
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I didn't read anything about that , the person in question started a thread back on the 23rd on DSL reports...apparently he has been fighting with them for some time about his usage....
Ive also read conflicting reports, some say he is on a residential account, but I believe he states he is on a small business account
 
Unlimited is unlimited, if you're going to take action against users reaching a certain threshold then you should make it clear on the plan and not say that you are free to use however much bandwidth you want when you really aren't. I don't know or can fathom what this user was doing using 77tb of data monthly, but if the plan is truly unlimited then this person should absolutely be able to do so, especially since he/she moved himself to a business-class line.

These "whales" might be using up inordinate amounts of data compared to normal users, but sanctioning them while not making it very clear that they'll be subject to these restrictions on the plan/contract is wrong on Verizon's part.
 
Falling Anvil said:
Unlimited is unlimited, if you're going to take action against users reaching a certain threshold then you should make it clear on the plan and not say that you are free to use however much bandwidth you want when you really aren't. I don't know or can fathom what this user was doing using 77tb of data monthly, but if the plan is truly unlimited then this person should absolutely be able to do so, especially since he/she moved himself to a business-class line.

These "whales" might be using up inordinate amounts of data compared to normal users, but sanctioning them while not making it very clear that they'll be subject to these restrictions on the plan/contract is wrong on Verizon's part.
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Agreed, but to the best of my knowledge FIOS has never been marketed as "unlimited"
 
Crosshairs said:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28586939-VZ-going-after-me-again-for-bandwidth-usage.-On-small-biz.
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It seems like they are making an example out of him and showing others that while FiOS has a generous cap , if you want to run a server for months on end into double digit terabyte territory then you'll have to be on a business connection. Perhaps they are a bit pissed he switched to residential and kept his bandwidth usage still within 30TB's a month.

Consider how much 30TB's a month could cost with a true dedicated end to end connection with routed static IP's , that's thousands of dollars he saved and they lost by doing so.

Here is the bottom line : Do NOT run a server on your residential connection and if you intend to use that kind of bandwidth go for a small business account. This is kinda of common sense , even if Verizon is being a dick about the whole thing (huge surprise there..).
 
Crosshairs said:
He most certainly did...he violated both the TOS and the AUP he agreed to when he signed up .
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Point being, and I think this is what Ducman was going at, is that they lured him in with promises of using whatever he wants at these superfast speeds (i.e. putting unlimted over everything), then when they were all ready to hook him up... btw here's your ToS you need to sign which basically says what we said you can do doesn't apply only if you're good little soldier who doesn't use too much.

Just because you put an asterisk next to the word unlimited does not give you the right to falsely advertise as unlimited. "New* car* for sale $199.95 *New is simply a term that means that you haven't had this before, and by car we mean duck"

Personally as long as he isn't hammering the lines so others can't get their max speed I have no problem with what he's doing, the suggestion to go to a business account seems to suspect that they aren't near saturation capacity they'll just charge him more for what he's using or they are near saturation but because he's paying more fuck all those cheap ass residential users.
 
Godmachine said:
It seems like they are making an example out of him and showing others that while FiOS has a generous cap , if you want to run a server for months on end into double digit terabyte territory then you'll have to be on a business connection. Perhaps they are a bit pissed he switched to residential and kept his bandwidth usage still within 30TB's a month.

Consider how much 30TB's a month could cost with a true dedicated end to end connection with routed static IP's , that's thousands of dollars he saved and they lost by doing so.

Here is the bottom line : Do NOT run a server on your residential connection and if you intend to use that kind of bandwidth go for a small business account. This is kinda of common sense , even if Verizon is being a dick about the whole thing (huge surprise there..).
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I agree....77Tb is a TON of data....I cant imaging using even a fraction of that...on a really "busy" month, I may get to 800-900Gb...and after reading through the many posts on this subject,it seems as if Verizon draws the line at 10Tb.....so for arguments sake, the cap is 10Tb....considering what some other company's set their cap at, , that's not a cap at all.....
 
The thing with FiOS is that it really doesn't have a separate "business" plan in certain areas. We use it at work for our main Internet connection. This connection serves about 20 servers, about 40 workstations, and 50 or so mobile devices.

Needless to say we use up a lot of bandwidth a month. No where NEAR that amount, but a good amount.
 
Crosshairs said:
I agree....77Tb is a TON of data....I cant imaging using even a fraction of that...on a really "busy" month, I may get to 800-900Gb...and after reading through the many posts on this subject,it seems as if Verizon draws the line at 10Tb.....so for arguments sake, the cap is 10Tb....considering what some other company's set their cap at, , that's not a cap at all.....
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Yea 10TB's is quite generous right now , however I hope that Verizon evaluates this "soft" cap down the line when the average users bandwidth increases and scale accordingly.

carlbme said:
The thing with FiOS is that it really doesn't have a separate "business" plan in certain areas. We use it at work for our main Internet connection. This connection serves about 20 servers, about 40 workstations, and 50 or so mobile devices.

Needless to say we use up a lot of bandwidth a month. No where NEAR that amount, but a good amount.
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Yea but the difference is that you ordered a business account , therefore you are in the clear to use whatever you want. This other fella on the other hand switched between business and residential to take advantage of more bandwidth. Its a shady thing to do since now Verizon has to publicly deal with it otherwise in a few years time there might be tons more people over saturating their shared connections simply because Verizon doesn't actively monitor their lines like other ISP's do.

What strikes me however is that he thought he could get away with it. Like as if Verizon wouldn't have noticed his massive bandwidth requirements each month and the spike in usage. He should have kept his business account "business" and he likely would have been left alone. Now his entire small business is in deep shit and it doesn't sound like he can afford a true dedicated line which is probably what he should have if he is doing over 77TB's of bandwidth some months.
 
Godmachine said:
Yea 10TB's is quite generous right now , however I hope that Verizon evaluates this "soft" cap down the line when the average users bandwidth increases and scale accordingly.



Yea but the difference is that you ordered a business account , therefore you are in the clear to use whatever you want. This other fella on the other hand switched between business and residential to take advantage of more bandwidth. Its a shady thing to do since now Verizon has to publicly deal with it otherwise in a few years time there might be tons more people over saturating their shared connections simply because Verizon doesn't actively monitor their lines like other ISP's do.

What strikes me however is that he thought he could get away with it. Like as if Verizon wouldn't have noticed his massive bandwidth requirements each month and the spike in usage. He should have kept his business account "business" and he likely would have been left alone. Now his entire small business is in deep shit and it doesn't sound like he can afford a true dedicated line which is probably what he should have if he is doing over 77TB's of bandwidth some months.
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He claiming in his thread on DSL reports that this is for a "hobby" and that he doesn't make money off of it
 
Aluisious said:
If it's called unlimited, there shouldn't be limits. Bandwidth x time in a month is the limit. Otherwise just make a limit, you cockwads.
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this.

Don't matter what they are doing get rid of the false advertising of unlimited. What people do or download is now of our business, they paid for something unlimited and used it to each their own.

.2
 
Seems perfectly appropriate to me. 10TB is a ton of fucking data. It's in any ISP's TOS that you cannot run a server on a home internet connection. Chances are anyone using that much data is doing just that, and by doing so they are in violation of their terms. Verizon has every right to tell them to cut it out or drop them.
 
Verizon needs to be class actioned over this use of unlimited is no limits you should get the max speed the line can transfer and as much as you can transfer. Unlimited is not 30/5 with a 300gig cap. My "unlimited" 4g is really 25/15 with a 5 gig cap then you get throttled the only unlimited part is the amount of data allowed. They need to stop using the term unlimited if they are not going to have unlimited.
 
faugusztin said:
Looking at you guys, i am not feeling bad about my ~400GB monthly data usage via my 100/8 MBit connectivity...
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I've never been able to break 360 gig a month.
And that's with 4 users running Netflix and HBO Go, my Steam addiction to $5 games and torrents.
Yeah and I thought my data usage was heavy.

But unlimited IS unlimited, and person TOS does state you're not allowed to run servers off of your connection, so if he was breaking the TOS and the flag was the amount of data he used...
So is this about more about him running servers of a personal connection or exceeding unlimited data?
 
Lunas said:
Verizon needs to be class actioned over this use of unlimited is no limits you should get the max speed the line can transfer and as much as you can transfer. Unlimited is not 30/5 with a 300gig cap. My "unlimited" 4g is really 25/15 with a 5 gig cap then you get throttled the only unlimited part is the amount of data allowed. They need to stop using the term unlimited if they are not going to have unlimited.
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Why must everything go to the courts :mad: ... all a class action suit would accomplish would be that they would pay a small monetary settlement and then permanently remove the unlimited nomenclature (and possibly implement much more stringent limits) ... in most cities there is very little competition since there are so few high speed providers and pissing them off doesn't usually work to the consumers advantage

Even with an "unlimited" designation a company is perfectly within their rights to include various clauses that limit that somewhat by restricting the type of activity you can legally perform using their services (restrictions on servers for wired and restrictions on hotspots for wireless) ... these are all legal and acceptable since you have the choice to sign the contract or not ... most of the big cities have at least two high speed providers so you can always try your luck with the other one ;)
 
Viper87227 said:
Seems perfectly appropriate to me. 10TB is a ton of fucking data. It's in any ISP's TOS that you cannot run a server on a home internet connection. Chances are anyone using that much data is doing just that, and by doing so they are in violation of their terms. Verizon has every right to tell them to cut it out or drop them.
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Server is such a obscure term almost as obscure as unlimited. What type of servers are not allowed? All servers? File servers ftp? Video streaming? Game servers? Music servers? Are those not features that windows android and more all are trying to advertise as features. ISP need to get real they need to realize the future and begin building for it.
 
ComputerBox34 said:
He claiming in his thread on DSL reports that this is for a "hobby" and that he doesn't make money off of it
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Yea , right. Either he has a ton of disposable income and he runs servers for fun or he leases his servers for space/programs to run off them and that pays for his expensive monthly connection (which seems much more likely since clearing 77TB's in a single month would take A TON of personal effort even downloading massive files).
 
Lunas said:
Server is such a obscure term almost as obscure as unlimited. What type of servers are not allowed? All servers? File servers ftp? Video streaming? Game servers? Music servers? Are those not features that windows android and more all are trying to advertise as features. ISP need to get real they need to realize the future and begin building for it.
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Well if you are fielding 77TB's of bandwidth and its not like Verizon can't tell how its being used. A massive amount of uploading is a pretty big warning , especially after months and months of double digit terabyte bandwidth usage.

Bottom line if you are using more than 30,000 times what the average user does then you are going to find yourself in conflict with the TOS. Even Google Fiber strictly forbids the use of servers and if you ran for months in the double digit range they would likely also take an interest in you and they are suppose to be one of the least restrictive ISP's in the US.

Probably the worst thing he could have done is switch from business to residential and continued his heavy usage. That probably was the biggest red flag of all.
 
Lunas said:
Server is such a obscure term almost as obscure as unlimited. What type of servers are not allowed? All servers? File servers ftp? Video streaming? Game servers? Music servers? Are those not features that windows android and more all are trying to advertise as features. ISP need to get real they need to realize the future and begin building for it.
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Why should the ISPs build for features they don't benefit from ... only Google has a vested interest in expanding internet speeds and access since they directly benefit from those elements ... people keep wanting the ISPs to be dumb pipes ... there is no money in being an unlimited dumb pipe ... with more people trying to cut the cord (hitting the profits in cable and phone) the ISPs should be looking to their long term profitability (not enabling other companies to profit from their work and customers) ... the smartest thing the ISPs could do is to get rid of unlimited access as soon as possible and charge a reasonable rate for overages ... they need to do it eventually (like they did for mobile) so they should do it now while their profits are still high and there is less competition ;)
 
Ducman69 said:
Screw that, he did NOTHING wrong.

Verizon and these other assholes need to stop the false advertising and advertise what they are WILLING to sell. Verizon knows they can't deliver unlimited of anything, no company can, so tell your marketing people to eat a dick and advertise TRUTHFULLY!

If they want to limit users to 5TB a month, just advertise that upfront! Don't pretend that people USING unlimited service which you advertised to them as unlimited are somehow doing something wrong.
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Lol ok, have fun being without an ISP for breaking the TOS and hosting a god damn server farm. Fuck that guy and the high horse he rode in.
 
Its very simply they offered x speed with no cap for 1 month for y price.

If he pays y price he should be allowed to use x speed for the whole month.

They are saying he isn't allowed to use the his internet all the times.

What they are saying is that he can only use the internet for a few hours a day.
 
I'd be surprised if using a residential connection for server hosting like that was ok with the TOS. I don't see how any home use could be able to use that much for legit purposes. 10TB a month is insane.
 
I still think it's false advertising. If it's not unlimited, then it shouldn't be advertised as such. Listing actual limits should be required by law so we know exactly what we're paying for. It would also rule out the "but I didn't know there was a cap" factor when SHTF. But I suppose the word "unlimited" sells a lot more plans that "XGB limit" does. This applies even more to mobile data plans.
 
lilfiend said:
i don't think the isp should complain, if i pay for 3MB/s (25mb) i should be able to max it out all the time, which is about 7.7TB/month

At the same time I fully expect the ISP to check up on wtf I'm doing if I'm using that much data and shut me down if I'm running servers or pirating or not following the TOS.

I've never come close to 7.7TB in a month, not even half that, but if one pays for it, one should be able to use it unless it is stated in their contract otherwise.
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Two problems with that. 1) A lot of providers give you a speed cap that is for burst downloads. There is no guarantee of sustained throughput. 2) The customers that Verizon is having problems with are people who are using the consumer rates and running servers and business needs. There's a reason why the business rates are much higher and why they don't send you these letters if you are a business users, it's because you're paying for that much usage.
 
That guy is a basement dwelling fucking douche. He is the reason why ISPs have an excuse to put datacaps on their entire userbase when 5% of their users abuse the system. I hope they cancel his service and he has to go to another service like he is saying he can do.
 
He bought the unlimited plan for a reason. If it says unlimited it should be unlimited. Otherwise don't say that.
 
Sigh, I wonder how many people are going to continue to think this is only about the bandwidth?:confused:
 
Spazturtle said:
Its very simply they offered x speed with no cap for 1 month for y price.

If he pays y price he should be allowed to use x speed for the whole month.

They are saying he isn't allowed to use the his internet all the times.

What they are saying is that he can only use the internet for a few hours a day.
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No... they offered X speed with no cap, along with a slew of other restrictions that are outlined in the TOS he agreed to, for 1 month for Y price. One of them probably very explicitly states that you cannot run servers off of a residential connection. By violating that rule that he agreed to, he violated his contract with Verizon along with his other rights as a contract holder.
 
Gilbert_pwns said:
He bought the unlimited plan for a reason. If it says unlimited it should be unlimited. Otherwise don't say that.
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That's not a reasonable way of looking at it. If every single one of their customers sat farting around their basement running 77TB of bandwidth a month, would the service be sustainable for the entire user base?
 
TMCM said:
Comcast just notified us that they are moving to tiered plans here in knoxville TN starting in Oct. 300GB a month and when you go over they charge you $10 more for another 50GB block. Sucks cause I think I use around 350-500GB a month. I'd love to change but Comcast is the only broadband ISP available in my area :(
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That is the worse possible way (for the customer) to implement caps.
If you normally only use around 150GB a month, but then one month you need to restore your system from your on-line backup, re-download your steam, etc., you get hosed. They are going with hard caps, should either roll over your unused data to the next month, or just slow you down and send you an email.
 
Trimlock said:
Sigh, I wonder how many people are going to continue to think this is only about the bandwidth?:confused:
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It is only about the bandwidth, you realize the only reason those TOS agreements exist is because of the bandwidth. Its a shady way of promising you something then making an excuse for why you did not deliver it. It's no different then all the web hosting companies that offer you unlimited space and bandwidth then make ridiculous limits on all sorts of things even the files you can put on your website and tell you how you can't use it for about 500 different things. Fact is probably 50% of people using these hosting services are breaking TOS but none of them get called out on it UNLESS they start using a ton of space or bandwidth / cpu / ram.

Verizon is exactly the same, you cant run a server on your connection right? So if I setup a game server for my buddy and me, or run ones during the day when I am at work? How come I have done this on many ISPs and they have never once called me on it? Because I am not using TBs of data that's why. They really don't give a single shit about what I do on my connection unless I start using a lot of bandwidth.
 
BTW it also reminds me of all the phone companies that say unlimited roaming, but wait in their TOS is says they can terminate you for excessive roaming? lol how can I be excessive when I have unlimited?
 
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