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Its being pushed on PS4 and XB1 by Nvidia, I don't know if any games are using it, but Nvidia is actively pushing it
Even more hilarious is they're pushing PhysX 3.X on both systems, when they won't give PhysX 3.X the time of fucking day on PC
Again, look at The Witcher 3. Next-gen game. Software Physx on the console and GPU Physx for the PC version. Better effects on the PC version while the console versions and AMD/Intel users get shit on in the end...this is NOT right. Isn't GPU physics kind of a big deal about the next-gen consoles? CD Projekt RED doesn't seem to think so.
I'm actually shocked that CD Projekt RED agreed to do this. I thought they did all the things they do because they aren't greedy assholes (like no DRM)...but by letting Nvidia apparently buy them out in this aspect they have lost respect from me.
Or you can bunt off physics development costs to nvidia who will send their software guys to do all the heavy lifting and now your game has physics and you didn't have to do jack. Because you know developers are all about doing things right even if it cost them money.
Oh wahh.. Should NVIDIA really just hand over IP to a competitor for free- to what end?
if AMDs VP of channel sales thinks that CUDA being closed source means its doomed, and thats the only reason, why in the living fuck dont they just convert it to open source instead of killing it.......?
Uhm... what? OpenCL performance on Nvidia cards has been more than good enough to run a physics engine for a long, loooong time.I think the main problem with OpenCL and GPU Compute is that Nvidia, until the 780 and Titan, completely sucked at using it.
In my opinion MS and Sony shouldn't allow this as all it does is stifle the evolution of OpenCL and limits what their consoles can do. By making the consoles run Physx that not only means that consoles won't be capable of advanced GPU physics but that on the PC end of things AMD and Intel IGP users will get screwed over as well.
THIS is why this proprietary shit needs to stop. This is why Physx NEEDS to die. You Nvidia users don't seem to understand that OpenCL and GPU Compute WILL RUN ON YOUR GPU. YOU DO NOT NEED PHYSX TO GET AWESOME EFFECTS!
So yeah, thanks Nvidia and the dev's that use software Physx.
Thanks Nvidia for holding next-gen back.
Sincerely,
AMD/Intel/Sony/Microsoft
You can keep raging, but no one is forcing Sony and Microsoft to use PhysX, no one is forcing developers to code for PhysX. Nvidia isn't holding anyone back. Their cards, as you said so yourself, can use the open physics engines as well, so there is no stopping any developers or console makers from pushing more towards open standards. It is in NO way the fault of Nvidia. If AMD/Intel/Sony/Microsoft really wanted to push more towards the open standards, then they would put more money into help developers code for those engines. The fact that Nvidia does spend so much time with developers says a lot about their focus. So who is really out to help the gamer and developers? Certainly not AMD, that is for damn sure. They may contribute to competition and lower prices, but they aren't really doing much in the arena of pushing more GPGPU and physics developement except putting out hardware.
In the end though I think too logically about these things. I think too much in the "I would do everything possible to make it the best I could" type way. I forget that developers are in the end a business, and with business it's all about the bottom line and profit margin. So even though Projekt RED could easily use and afford Havok in the end they'd rather get paid to use a worse product then pay to get a superior one. But that's just business, right?...
The biggest issue with PhysX not supporting all hardware is that game developers have to plan for it not being there, meaning that in most cases it's limited to novelty effects.
And when I see a game using PhysX now, my first thought is, why not DirectCompute or OpenCL instead?
I never said anyone was FORCED to use it.
As I said above:
That's the reason why these companies are using Physx, pure and simple. If that isn't the reason then what is? Why wouldn't RED want to use an open source or paid physics engine that could really do some cool effects for everyone?
Isn't that sort of the point of next-gen?
Plus, using Physx means that physics intense things can't ever be used for actual game play purposes and will always be limited to purely eye-candy for Nvidia users as consoles and AMD/Intel user wouldn't be able to run more intense Physx effects in it's current state.
Like I said, unless Nvidia redoes Physx to support all GPU's or makes it so the CPU can do things that can be done using Havok (like intense cloth, particle, fluid, etc) it will always hold back physics in games that rely on the CPU. This is a fact and can be proven by playing ANY game that uses GPU Physx with the CPU (Borderlands 2, Mafia 2, Arkham Asylum/City).
Havok (or similar) = Awesome and substantial physics effects for any CPU or GPU depending on which processing method is used.
Physx = Awesome and substantial physics effects for Nvidia users. Non-Nvidia users get stuck with physics that aren't any better than what we got with Half Life 2 almost 10 years ago.
I don't see how anyone can argue this point.
Got it, so its Nvidia's responsibility to hold everyone's hand and do everything for them? It isn't the responsibility of anyone else to push other platforms or lend a helping hand to developers and enable them to use these supposedly superior physics engines? Come on man...
Uhm... you need to do some fact checking...Companies like Havok or others (DMM, Euphoria, Bullet, etc) couldn't afford to pay dev's off so that they'll use their product instead. If Havok owned a industry leading GPU manufacturer and could safely afford to pay dev's to use Havok I'm sure they would.
Well the problems with physx on cpu only is that there are hard limits to effects in the coding although i haven't looked over 3.x yet. Plus the old 2.x on newer cpu's that don't allow x87 coding outside of single thread. Still physx is a near split with havok each with about 500 products using their engine.
Well you see the big difference between Nvidia and other physics companies is that Physx is only a part of Nvidia over all.
Companies like Havok or others (DMM, Euphoria, Bullet, etc) couldn't afford to pay dev's off so that they'll use their product instead. If Havok owned a industry leading GPU manufacturer and could safely afford to pay dev's to use Havok I'm sure they would.
Nvidia doesn't have to worry about people paying THEM to use it as to them, financially, it's such a minor thing. Basically what I see with Physx is Nvidia paying dev's to basically advertise the Nvidia name.
As I just said above...if you are a developer would you rather be paid to use something or pay to use something. You really think RED is using Physx because it's the SUPERIOR product or do you think they're using it because they get money to use it.
In other words, do you think Physx would be as wide spread in use if developers HAD to pay for it like they would with Havok, etc? Of course not. If all physics engines had to be paid for then why would a dev want a CPU limited software solution for their next-gen games instead of something that could use the GPU and do SO SO SO much more?
Uhm... you need to do some fact checking...
- Havok is owned by Intel, and Intel can certainly afford to pay devs off.
- Intel is THE industry-leading GPU manufacturer (Intel has 51% of the GPU market).
...Time and money that Nvidia was willing to offer to developers to help make better games...
I don't know if you're trying to say Borderlands 2 physx was awesome or terrible.
Make better games for THEIR products only.
....PhysX is not the big bully out there, and neither is Nvidia...
Again, you are just uttering blind hatred at Nvidia. They didn't create the problem, they tried to create a solution for gamers and developers
It's required by anybody that accepts funding from Nvidia that PhysX to be put into their games.
Repeat, required.
If this is not "Bullying" the developer, I dunno what is.
At least AMD's program they help the developer tweak the game engine so it runs better on both AMD and Nvidia, hell they do it for free even.
Um, Nvidia did create the problem by not having PhysX a open source standard.....
Again, you are just uttering blind hatred at Nvidia. They didn't create the problem, they tried to create a solution for gamers and developers.
No Nvidia hatred. Closed software to be used with specific hardware hatred.
Also being obviously Nvidia biased doesn't help your case either..."they tried to create a solution for gamers and developers"...what solution? That's right, a solution that helps THEM AND ONLY THEM. Sure it helps gamers....as long as you're a "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" gamer.
The developer side of things is simply because the developer is being paid to use it so of course a lot of them are going to use Physx. Less money and less work for them. What's not to like besides cutting off a large majority of consumer base.
Either way in the end, we can all argue all we want. It still doesn't change the fact that Physx is a plague to the gaming community and unless Nvidia want's to make it open source or makes it run LIKE IT SHOULD and without severely gimping it on CPU's and other vendors GPU's it needs to die.
Right I am Nvidia biased....coming from you, that is funny.
So a company should not attempt to profit on advancements they bring to their industry? Nvidia bought PhysX and offered to license it. They also help developers write code for PhysX. Developers dont 'have' to use PhysX and neither do gamers. But its Nvidia's product, it was something extra being added, it does improve games.
That is indeed trying to create a solution for gamers and developers.
It isn't something for them and only them, they have often offered to license it.
Microsoft licenses out their standards as well, as does both AMD and Intel, along with hundreds of other companies. Rail against all of them too.
PhysX isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to all the other proprietary licensing going on. And at least with PhysX both gamers and developers have a choice.
The developers being paid has not been the huge incentive you think it is.
Again, I point to the lack of saturation of PhysX in the big game market. It does not have that strong of a foothold.
And if I was some Nvidia homer, why would I keep pointing that out? The problem is you are just too blind in your vitriol to see the points being made.
And the funniest thing, is you sit here and rant about how PhysX is so crappy compared to other engines, yet in the same breath want it to be made open source so even more games will use it? Come on man...
I would like to point out that a lot of developers used PhysX because it was already tightly integrated to UE3 by Epic in the engine that Epic has been licensing. They were not getting paid. It doesn't make sense to rip it all out and then pay another big chunk of change and try to integrate something else in. When you are on a tight timeline and budget it doesn't make sense.
A lot of Midways fails as they were sinking all suffered from spending a lot of time trying to integrate in Havoc when UE3 wasn't set up for it.
UE3.5 and 3.5+ both are able to use PhysX 3.X easily, UE3 could only use PhysX 2.X natively
Nvidia still pays developers when making 3.5 and 3.5+ UE games to only use PhysX 2.X though in order to sell cards, biggest offenders lately is Arkham City and Borderlands 2
Sounds like you are. What is it about Physx that you love so much other than the fact that you get to use it when it's used and the rest of people that don't own Nvidia are SOL?
Advancements created by a Ageia. Licensed to games for free because Nvidia get's their name in a game thus free advertising. They help code because of the previous point. Dev's don't have to use Physx but that money smells good! It doesn't improve games. It adds some flying pieces of paper or some liquid that looks like snot. Only time Physx will actually improve anything is if it's GPU driven effects can be used on all GPU's. Other than that it will continue to be nothing more than eye-candy and will never be utilized in actual game play or else that game becomes broken with non-Nvidia users.
For Nvidia users only. You don't seem to understand that Nvidia doesn't give a shit about advancements. It only cares about itself as most business do.
You're right. Nvidia offered to license it to AMD as long as they got to write the drivers for it and had full access to AMD's hardware. Sounds fair right? Because we all know Nvidia would have done the right thing and made Physx run faster on their competitors products that have faster GPU computing capabilities.
The things these companies license get to have done whatever to by the company licensing them. Nvidia would only license to AMD if AMD did as Nvidia wanted which was basically give up their trade secrets. Of course AMD didn't agree to that, no business would.
There ya go with that choice thing again! Either you have it or you don't. What a great choice! Thanks Nvidia and dev's! I have no problem as a gamer paying the same price for an inferior product. How awesome.
Sure it is. How is it not? Either pay for something themselves or get paid to use something...which choice would you make as a greedy business only worried about the bottom line?
Nvidia can't pay everyone!
Nope, as I've said before it has nothing to do with me hating Nvidia (which I don't) but has everything to do with me hating closed standards.
I don't give a damn what physics engine it is, as long as it isn't platform specific thus shutting out anyone who doesn't use that platform. By Nvidia having Physx as a closed platform that means that:
We're never going to see Physx used for game play purposes in games.
-and-
We're never going to see physics that push game play boundaries because it's compatible with only a single platform.
Now obviously this isn't only Nvidia's fault it's the developers as well. This is why I said that Physx is fine...as long as it can be used by everyone...which in it's current state it can't be.
OpenCL and DirectCompute...this is what I want to see dev's use. This is why they should stop being lackies and actaully, you know, DEVELOP physics so that we can have game changing physics in ALL games on ALL platforms.
Equality. That's all I want. Is that so much to ask for?
PhysX is not dying, this year alone saw the release of 7 games supporting it , which is higher than ever before ..
PlanetSide 2
Hawken
Metro Last Light
Rise Of The Triad
Warframe
XCOM the Bureau (announced, to be released this month)
Batman Arkham Origin (announced, to be released in 2 months)