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Undercover Cops Selling Stolen iPhones
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kirbyrj
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It isn't because they are telling you it's stolen. Hence the person already knows its stolen and then attempts to purchase it. It would be entrapment if the cop didn't tell them it was stolen.
TheMadHatterXxX
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How the fuck is this even legal? I don't see how the buyer is committing a crime.
kirbyrj
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The buyer is receiving stolen property (or whatever that state's version of it is). The buyer KNOWS it is stolen and purchases it anyway.
D
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Sounds like something new york would do.
I wonder if going after the black market itself will be more effective than going after the criminals. I imagine in this case, it will be quite effective for a while.
Sort of like going after drug users over suppliers, but then, it's hard to sift through the data to find out if that is actually effective (especially over the cacophony of voices claiming it makes things worse somehow).
Sort of like going after drug users over suppliers, but then, it's hard to sift through the data to find out if that is actually effective (especially over the cacophony of voices claiming it makes things worse somehow).
TheMadHatterXxX
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Ashbringer
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WHY? What if I put my hands to my head and go LaLaLaLaLa, when the seller is telling me it's stolen? Ask anybody if they care if the iPhone is stolen. They do not, so long as the price is right.
It's much easier for the cops to go after the buyers then the thieves. Won't stop the thieves though.
It's much easier for the cops to go after the buyers then the thieves. Won't stop the thieves though.
kirbyrj
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In my state, grading is the same as actually stealing the property. A new iPhone 5 would probably get you a 1st degree Misdemeanor based on the $ value. Probably wouldn't get jail time on a first offense though.
"In criminal law, entrapment is conduct by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit"
walking up to someone and tempting them to purchase a phone at any price they wish (make an offer) even saying it is stolen, is still tempting them to commit a crime they wouldn't normally have sought out.
kirbyrj
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It is not entrapment because they know it is stolen before it is purchased. It falls under the "random virtue testing" doctrine which is legal. The difference is "Hey, you want to buy a phone?" vs. "Hey you want to buy this phone, it's stolen, but I can make it work anyway." At that point, they are seeking out purchasing a stolen phone when money exchanges hands. The fact that they are even talking to people who have mentioned selling stolen phones means they are seeking it out.
TheMadHatterXxX
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First world problems brah, it's California what do you expect, if not this they would be chasing overdue library books. I guess even with all their budgetary problems this is still a priority.
Those things are difficult! It's much easier to meet your arrest quotas this way.
T4rd
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RTFA ...clearly says San Francisco.
Well he wasn't saying it was New York doing it, he just said it sounds like something they would do. This is one of those times where voice inflection makes all the difference, so in text it's hard to interpret what he meant or how he said it.
It would be funny if someone called the cops on them for selling stolen goods. I see it going like this;
"Hey man, you want an iPhone for real cheap? It's stolen, but still works great!"
"What? Yeah man, wait right there while I call someone... *dials on phone* Yeah, I got someone here selling stolen phones on the street."
"Wait, wait! We're actually police trying to catch people buying stolen goods! Here's our badge!"
"Yeah, right, bro. That shit is fake as hell and I'm taking you down ;-)."
That would be because it is entrapment and they are using my tax payer dollars to find criminals because I guess there are not enough crimes no a days.
bigdogchris
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I think this type of police activity is similar to "bait cars". Whether it's legal or not is for the courts to decide.
I suppose you could make the argument that police should be arresting people committing crime, not looking for people that may commit a crime.
I suppose you could make the argument that police should be arresting people committing crime, not looking for people that may commit a crime.
caddys83
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Next hot item will be google glasses
Good! Lock those scumbags up for knowingly buying stolen property
how many pirated games you download this year?
Stories like this make me think that there are too many cops. You hear often that police forces are undermanned and that there's not enough money for them. If they have enough guys and enough money to be doing nonsense like this they are overstaffed and have too many resources.
how many pirated games you download this year?
police in this case are scumbags. truth is most people no matter who you are take opportunities when the come. Even cops the "ahem" heros of our society...ROLL EYES
kirbyrj
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This is probably a few guys in the whole police force. He does this for a few days, gets a little attention, people stop buying phones because they don't want to be arrested, and crime is prevented. In fact, this is probably the best use of time/money in terms of crime prevented per dollar spent.
Next you're going to tell me that cops have too much time on their hands and shouldn't be writing traffic tickets or arresting DUI drivers.
kirbyrj
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So...who is the scumbag again? The cop for arresting someone for doing something illegal or the suspect who knowingly "takes an opportunity" at the expense of one of his fellow citizens whose phone was stolen?
I agree there are to many cops. You see how many came out of the woodwork in Boston? Then put the entire city on lock-down..talk about no rights just to catch a couple of goons. Shit is going to happen and most of the time things are ok.
This society is vastly overprotected, insured and afraid of everything.
This society is vastly overprotected, insured and afraid of everything.
Ocean
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but if it is really cheap, i would buy it just to successfully return it to the rightful owner.
losing a phone can be a major hassle.
losing a phone can be a major hassle.
I forgot everyone on the internet are good christian law abiding citizens and defenders of good morals do no wrong ever Nancys.
how many pirated games you have?
The cops are scumbags for taking advance of human nature in a area of town where they know someone will bite thus filling the quota for today and have good press material for the week to justify their tax budgets.
and yeah the about to be a criminal who was tempted by a cop to buy the phones are scumbags as well i guess
So, it's "human nature" to steal? Guess I missed that gene.
kirbyrj
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There you go with the pirated games again. I don't have a pirated game. I don't have pirated music. I don't see your point with "cops taking advantage of human nature." Sure everyone likes a good deal, but it's common sense that when the good deal comes at the expense of theft, "most" people will (and should) walk away. That's the difference between a productive member of society and a shitbag.
If you're dumb enough to knowingly buy a stolen phone (or stolen anything), you belong in jail. It has nothing to do with a "quota for the day."
Comparing buying stolen cell phones to what happened in Boston is flat out idiotic. I agree that the police presence in Boston was out of line. I get that, and whoever approved that should be held accountable.
Corporate Goon
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It's not interesting, it's soul-crushingly depressing.
"Technikal", don't make the mistake of assuming that just because you're a selfish, entitled scumbag that everyone else is too. I wouldn't buy a stolen phone unless, like another poster said, it was cheap enough that I could just buy it off the guy and take it in to a cell phone store the next day so its original owner could be traced.
And FYI, no, not everyone steals IP. The only software & media on my computer are legitimately purchased or open-source.
This still seems like entrapment though. I was under the impression police officers couldn't walk up to random people and try to get them to buy drugs. I don't see why this is any different.
TheFlosser
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I would like to see how many people would turn down any vehicles or expensive electronics stolen or not, for the right price.
This police practice does raise concerns.
This police practice does raise concerns.
sfsuphysics
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Yeah, except the difference with "bait cars" is that the cars are there, and it's up to the criminals to actually do criminal acts to get into it. Now if they left iPhones on the edge of a sidewalk cafe table and they were going after those who grab and run that'd be a whole different story. This is coercing someone into committing a crime, the coercion? targeting people with little money with something "very nice" for an extremely low price.
Then comes the crime.... buying stolen merchandise. I'm sorry, but this goes into the same category as arresting someone soliciting sex when some hooker comes up to them asking them if they want a good time, where as the hookers get processed and released. The mentality of if you remove the demand side then the supply side will dry up, except it's EXTREMELY flawed because you're not really removing the demand side in any significant amount to affect the supply side at all. I am by no means defending the crime, but I also think in many cases this is committing a crime where one never existed, basically what entrapment does.
And the fact there is a "trick" involved here shows how reprehensible this whole sting is, what is the real crime here? See who's willing to commit? The temptation of sin? I mean FFS they even state the area is known for stolen good purchases, so why the fuck don't they try to purchase some of those stolen goods, then arrest those who are selling them. Kind of like the hooker argument, lets ignore the brightly clothed gals standing on street corners at all hours of the night, and instead go after some guy who's 2 minute journey through a seedy part of town makes him notice women flaunting their sexuality, who's only real crime is he can't get human sexual contact without paying for it. I'm not excusing those who would buy stolen stuff, but fuck man this is just silly... besides the fact they mention they're stolen from a store and not an individual probably plays into the whole tug of war between right and wrong, would you care more of if some guy got basically a large portion of his paycheck stolen or some multibillion dollar corporation has a loss that can only be measured out to the 8th decimal place?
And ironically the person who convicts the people, doesn't think it's useful.
And yeah I'm a bit fired up about this because large cities like San Francisco are known for doing these sorts of things in order to raise revenue and what not. I was nabbed for parking a car on a street that has parking all day long, even has meters on it, but at 8pm the street turns into a no parking/tow away zone. Not for any reason of congestion or commute or anything like that, but because they claim they don't want people leaving the bars there to have easy access to their cars and drive drunk... WTF!? How bad was it? I got back to the street at 8:10pm, and half of the cars were gone, there were a half dozen police putting tickets on cars, and convoy of tow trucks just taking cars as quickly as possible ($500 and about 30 minutes later I got my car back). So yeah this wasn't to prevent anything, this was to make fucking money. The street has since changed and no longer does some retarded shit like that.
This is illegal because if the phones are actually stolen property then they should be returned to the rightful owner. If they are not stolen property then you cannot be arrested for receiving stolen property.
I don't understand what the cops are trying to do. A good Lawyer would have this thrown out. The law doesn't state that you shall be arrested for receiving what you think is stolen property but that you received stolen property.
How can you be arrested for receiving or purchasing stolen property if it is not stolen. if it is stolen how can the cops get by with not returning to the rightful owner. This will fail horrible.
I don't understand what the cops are trying to do. A good Lawyer would have this thrown out. The law doesn't state that you shall be arrested for receiving what you think is stolen property but that you received stolen property.
How can you be arrested for receiving or purchasing stolen property if it is not stolen. if it is stolen how can the cops get by with not returning to the rightful owner. This will fail horrible.
kirbyrj
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It's an inchoate crime...criminal attempt to purchase stolen property.
Not if it actually is not stolen. Then it is an attempt to purchase a non-stolen phone. No matter what the cop or anyone else says. If it is a stolen phone then the cops have a duty to return it to the rightful owner. If it is not a stolen phone then you cannot be arrested for attempting to purchase said stolen phone.