Undercover Cops Selling Stolen iPhones

[mope54]

I agree that it's a less sympathetic example because of his lack of citizenship status but I think it's important to consider that he could have just as easily been a US citizen here legally and still not have a criminal record, still have children, and most importantly still not understand English very well (and therefore likely to not understand the cop telling him the devices are stolen or what that means).

 

[c3141hf]

They didn't indicate in the article that they were charging them with "receiving stolen property" ... it is quite possible that the "attempted purchased of stolen property" is also a crime ... many jurisdictions have both the actual success of a crime as well as the attempt to commit a crime on their books (Murder/Attempted murder, rape/attempted rape, robbery/attempted robbery, etc) ... how many of these laws exist varies by jurisdiction and they are still dependent on the jury system for enforcement ... if the juries refused to convict these "attempted" criminals then the police would pursue different avenues of enforcement

I don't look for the state to define what a crime is and isn't. A crime is a violation of someone else's natural rights; an initiation of force through violence or the threat of violence. Please stop appealing to the state as if they are some kind of god that has the right or the wisdom to be the ultimate determiner of right and wrong.

In this case SFO has a problem with stolen iPhones ... it is difficult to prevent all the thefts directly so they are attempting to make the market for selling the phones less attractive and thereby make the stealing of the phone to begin with less profitable and desirable

Perhaps they should eat fewer donuts, get off their asses, and go look for the actual thieves. I realize that, unlike sitting around waiting for people to come to you, it requires them to do actual work but it is supposedly their job to hunt down criminals.

If this was a pedephile sting I doubt there would be much opposition to this ... but if it is drugs or stolen property suddenly everyone is up in arms

Actually, I would oppose that. I do not compromise my principles because something is unpopular. If no child has been harmed and if there is no threat of violence, it is not a crime.

Well, attempt to buy a "stolen" phone and see how that defense works out for you.

Might does not make right. I am fully away of the state's propensity for violence.

Like mope pointed out

>The officer claimed he needed money to buy his daughter Christmas presents
>Tester bought the iPhone for $20 because he was "feeling sorry" for the seller and his daughter

Falsely tugging on heart strings should be a crime.

Not quite sure what to think on the second quote.

The officer is the criminal.

 

[kbrickley]

I don't look for the state to define what a crime is and isn't. A crime is a violation of someone else's natural rights; an initiation of force through violence or the threat of violence. Please stop appealing to the state as if they are some kind of god that has the right or the wisdom to be the ultimate determiner of right and wrong.

Have you ever met a law you did like ... in most countries the local laws like these are not defined by "The State" but are a reflection of the will of the society ... although it can make for some bad laws (segregation laws for example) it is the will of the people, not the will of the state ... the price of living in a society is you are forced to live by the rules defined by that society ... the only way to avoid that is to live outside the boundaries defined by society

violence or the threat of violence is a pretty high bar and although most laws would meet that definition, there are many that do not ... trespass is a valid crime (whether you are violating a person's or a business' boundaries) as is identity theft (although no act of violence is usually committed) ... there are also many civil violations that don't involve direct violence (slander, libel, etc) ... if everyone was a Gandhi, Buddha, or Jesus Christ you might be able to survive without laws (but we do not live in that world)

 

[singe_101]

Even if buying the phone is illegal, it's a shit practice to try and coax people in to buying a phone only to arrest them. If someone offered me an iphone for $1 and told me it was stolen, I'd be tempted to buy it just to turn it in to the cops (assuming I'm not worried I'm about to get the shit kicked out of me in which case I'd just keep walking, I know people who have been violently mugged, lured with the promise of cheap shit in to a dark alley).

Don't turn a phone into the cops or (IMO) openly use one to record them, and don't have high expectations if you plan to file a complaint in person, they may treat you like a nuisance or criminal.