Windows Blue Update Leaks Out

Wrench00 said:
This would have helped MS in the enterprise market greatly as their are wicked good features in the new Kernel but they will miss the boat because user don't want to change or adapt or learn.
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Windows 8 is all about adapting to a changing market place. Corporate and business IT isn't only about the desktop anymore, tablets are growing in the enterprise as well. In a lot of ways Windows 8 makes sense more in a business environment because leveraging the desktop for tablets can have more significance for businesses than consumers.
 
Climber said:
I just don't get the bitch fest. Adapt or don't get it. It isn't like you're forced to use it.
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That's a big part of the issue. In a way, you are. Any new machine (unless you pay out the ass for a Win 7 license) will have Windows 8. For any backward compatibility, you're stuck with a UI that many people hate. Corporate users are effectively fucked and any corporate admins (as many here have already mentioned) now have to deal with this forceful change rather than MS allowing an option out of the box. In corporate environments, 3rd party programs for UI modification won't be an easy sell.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 8 is all about adapting to a changing market place. Corporate and business IT isn't only about the desktop anymore, tablets are growing in the enterprise as well. In a lot of ways Windows 8 makes sense more in a business environment because leveraging the desktop for tablets can have more significance for businesses than consumers.
Click to expand...

Problem is that Microsoft is trying to dictate corporate IT policies.. Ever try telling some one how they can spend their money?

The bulk of Canadian business' are under 20 users (80% of all working Canadian work for SMBS). Do you think they have BYOD or Mobile Computing policy? Do you think they even have IT policies, how do these organizations deal with Mobile computing and the security concerns they raise? Even larger organizations are terrified to go there because of rules and regulation and politics involved with this. What about work from home

I don't think the bulk of users here appreciate the amount of bullshit you need to wade through to even adapt to the new vision MS has with 99% of corporations

So spouting how they can leverage means big fat fuck all if the companies don't want to go there or can't go there.

Hell even yahoo no longer allows remote workers. I work from home I think its great. My preferred computing platform is my phone and my asus transformer tablet, but mostly my phone.

And here lies the caveat these workers that work at these companies they are using the computer in a way that socially engineers them not to adapt to remote working so are these people gone go out and embrace changes NOPE.

You guys need to have a read of Sarbanes-Oxley Act or Canadian version of C-SOX then lets say Government of "insert Province" Information and Baseline security, or Freedom of information and privacy protection act (Federal and provincial) These are of course mostly big organization but some SMB do fall under those regulations.

How would you feel if everyone jumped on the bandwagon... YEY FUCKING TABLETS everywhere. Then some disgruntled employee "looses" a tablet with YOUR Social Insurance number? Or your credit history or personal information that can lead to you having your identity stolen? How would you like if access to pipeline monitoring or management or SCADA software that is monitoring the Keystone Pipeline running by your house or your community walked of the premises of the company. Desktops don't just pick up and walk out but a tablet or a laptop is another thing.

Again everyone here is looking at the Ground level view from the users perspective. Try this at 1000Foot view from the IT workers perspective then go higher to 10k Foot view Perspective IT Team lead or Management and then go to the 50k Foot view from the CEO, CIO perspective. Shit don't look so rosy the higher you go.

Spout all you want how MS Vision and Unified UI problem is that the Billion Tonne Gorilla that's the corporate market will take forever to move or even shift to fart.

8 is a consumer product that is doomed to fail in the corporate market and its sad because there are great features in 8 and the problem is that MS is to stuborn to admit it.
Since 2/3 of the revenue comes from corporate market to MS do you think this is a giant lack of foresight? I think so.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 8 is all about adapting to a changing market place. Corporate and business IT isn't only about the desktop anymore, tablets are growing in the enterprise as well.
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True, but I think the tablet sector grows more based on iPads and iOS than it does via Windows RT and Surface. I can only speak of a small sample, but our company has maybe 10 tablets total, and 9 of them are iPads (the other is a Surface w/keyboard, and he (COO) has already admitted to preferring his iPad).

IMHO Microsoft is putting the cart before the horse.
 
heatlesssun said:
Currently no, but PC hardware is going to change significantly in the coming months.
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This!

We're on the brink of a fundamental shift in how computer hardware works. In the next few months, first physical interface devices will go away. Once those are no longer part of the equation, the display will vanish next. After that, I'd imagine internal storage is out the window. ROM drives are already gone. Then processors, graphics cards, memory, and motherboards will literally disappear. You're going to see the next revolutionary new system look something like this:

7647098_f248.jpg


Think of the vast power savings you'll realize and let's not forget that it'll still run Office like a champ. :)
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
This!

We're on the brink of a fundamental shift in how computer hardware works. In the next few months, first physical interface devices will go away. Once those are no longer part of the equation, the display will vanish next. After that, I'd imagine internal storage is out the window. ROM drives are already gone. Then processors, graphics cards, memory, and motherboards will literally disappear. You're going to see the next revolutionary new system look something like this:

7647098_f248.jpg


Think of the vast power savings you'll realize and let's not forget that it'll still run Office like a champ. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah its called VDI. Its the only way corporate environment will do the remote stuff. The only real way to control info. You don't need a 1000 Surface pro to connect to a vdi a 100 dollar android will do the trick.
 
Sorry, you are not going to get actual productivity like back-office operations, any design work (graphics design, CAD, et al) or IT/engineering work out of a phone or tablet form factor, regardless of RDP/Citrix or whatever virtualization you like.

Yes, it's possible, I've written and run a SQL script or two while on the shitter, but it would have taken far less time with a proper screen and a proper keyboard.
 
Wrench00 said:
As for WPS,, What happens if you know the SSID but not the WPS and you have no option to disable WPS on the router? How do you tell a user that they have to type in a huge NETSH command to connect? These kind of little thing in a corporate environment don't fly. What about 8 is in production but its been using classic shell and the user never used metro because of start button replacement how do you now explain to look for a Control Panel Item that's not in the control panel but rather in the Metro interface?
I don't have an issue with Metro I have an issue with Metro not being finished and waiting a year for MS to get their shit together I have a problem with.
Ever try adding a 8 machine to a small business server? There is a myriad of problems with it.
Server 2012 is also buggy no difference. Its like they fired their whole testing team. Hell usability team must have been semi retarded to miss some of the problems I mentioned. These blunders shouldn't have ever been in the OS at all especially when MS revenue come 2/3 from the Corporate market not consumer users.

I think MS needs a NT Brand and a Consumer Brand back. Metro and touch will never ever really make it in the enterprise at this rate.
I mean with all the fucking moronic version of Desktop OS you would think Corporate or Ultimate Version could have had the turn of metro crap switch. This would have helped MS in the enterprise market greatly as their are wicked good features in the new Kernel but they will miss the boat because user don't want to change or adapt or learn.
Click to expand...

I like the double standards here.

When GNU/Linux requires someone to use a command-line, it is because GNU/Linux sucks and is a horrible operating system etc. etc. etc.

When Windows requires the same thing, it is a "feature" and just how the operating system "works".
 
Wrench00 said:
You guys need to have a read of Sarbanes-Oxley Act or Canadian version of C-SOX then lets say Government of "insert Province" Information and Baseline security, or Freedom of information and privacy protection act (Federal and provincial) These are of course mostly big organization but some SMB do fall under those regulations.

How would you feel if everyone jumped on the bandwagon... YEY FUCKING TABLETS everywhere. Then some disgruntled employee "looses" a tablet with YOUR Social Insurance number? Or your credit history or personal information that can lead to you having your identity stolen? How would you like if access to pipeline monitoring or management or SCADA software that is monitoring the Keystone Pipeline running by your house or your community walked of the premises of the company. Desktops don't just pick up and walk out but a tablet or a laptop is another thing.
Click to expand...

I work at a US mega bank and am very familiar with what you're talking about here. For most our business and back office operations tablets don't mean much. For sales folks though they have a lot of use but they'd never be carrying private information on tablet, or at least that's STRICTLY prohibited.
 
Wrench00 said:
Problem is that Microsoft is trying to dictate corporate IT policies.. Ever try telling some one how they can spend their money?

The bulk of Canadian business' are under 20 users (80% of all working Canadian work for SMBS). Do you think they have BYOD or Mobile Computing policy? Do you think they even have IT policies, how do these organizations deal with Mobile computing and the security concerns they raise? Even larger organizations are terrified to go there because of rules and regulation and politics involved with this. What about work from home

I don't think the bulk of users here appreciate the amount of bullshit you need to wade through to even adapt to the new vision MS has with 99% of corporations

So spouting how they can leverage means big fat fuck all if the companies don't want to go there or can't go there.

Hell even yahoo no longer allows remote workers. I work from home I think its great. My preferred computing platform is my phone and my asus transformer tablet, but mostly my phone.

And here lies the caveat these workers that work at these companies they are using the computer in a way that socially engineers them not to adapt to remote working so are these people gone go out and embrace changes NOPE.

You guys need to have a read of Sarbanes-Oxley Act or Canadian version of C-SOX then lets say Government of "insert Province" Information and Baseline security, or Freedom of information and privacy protection act (Federal and provincial) These are of course mostly big organization but some SMB do fall under those regulations.

How would you feel if everyone jumped on the bandwagon... YEY FUCKING TABLETS everywhere. Then some disgruntled employee "looses" a tablet with YOUR Social Insurance number? Or your credit history or personal information that can lead to you having your identity stolen? How would you like if access to pipeline monitoring or management or SCADA software that is monitoring the Keystone Pipeline running by your house or your community walked of the premises of the company. Desktops don't just pick up and walk out but a tablet or a laptop is another thing.

Again everyone here is looking at the Ground level view from the users perspective. Try this at 1000Foot view from the IT workers perspective then go higher to 10k Foot view Perspective IT Team lead or Management and then go to the 50k Foot view from the CEO, CIO perspective. Shit don't look so rosy the higher you go.

Spout all you want how MS Vision and Unified UI problem is that the Billion Tonne Gorilla that's the corporate market will take forever to move or even shift to fart.

8 is a consumer product that is doomed to fail in the corporate market and its sad because there are great features in 8 and the problem is that MS is to stuborn to admit it.
Since 2/3 of the revenue comes from corporate market to MS do you think this is a giant lack of foresight? I think so.
Click to expand...

THIS
the fact is the enterprise world is still seeing the fallout from the EOL of XP and 2000
and most are moving to some form of linux then even deal with 7 or 8
 
Oh and some one that likes 8 please tell me how 8 will work in a production environment?
in the case of say process control software ill wait...
 
Elios said:
THIS
the fact is the enterprise world is still seeing the fallout from the EOL of XP and 2000
and most are moving to some form of linux then even deal with 7 or 8
Click to expand...

Not gonna happen until Microsoft Office ceases to be the ONLY game in town for those who have serious Office suite needs, and Excel and VBA cease to be what drive 99% of corporate data analysis.

And I'm as big a Linux proponent and Windows 8 hater as there can be... but enterprise is only just starting to go to Windows 7, the fallout from Windows 8 will take a while to materialize in the working world....
 
heatlesssun said:
I work at a US mega bank and am very familiar with what you're talking about here. For most our business and back office operations tablets don't mean much. For sales folks though they have a lot of use but they'd never be carrying private information on tablet, or at least that's STRICTLY prohibited.
Click to expand...

Like the US Veterans employee that got his laptop stolen and several million people's SSN leaked.

But this is why most Intel chips are being built with a remote brick/wipe the data
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
Not gonna happen until Microsoft Office ceases to be the ONLY game in town for those who have serious Office suite needs, and Excel and VBA cease to be what drive 99% of corporate data analysis.

And I'm as big a Linux proponent and Windows 8 hater as there can be... but enterprise is only just starting to go to Windows 7, the fallout from Windows 8 will take a while to materialize in the working world....
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http://www.novatechweb.com/
i have family that works for this company they are moving to Linux because they can not get 7 or 8 be nearly as good as 2000 was
mind you they moved to windows from VMS when they had to move off the Alpha to X86 so going to linux for them isnt a huge issue really
 
Elios said:
http://www.novatechweb.com/
i have family that works for this company they are moving to Linux because they can not get 7 or 8 be nearly as good as 2000 was
mind you they moved to windows from VMS when they had to move off the Alpha to X86 so going to linux for them isnt a huge issue really
Click to expand...
As good as 2000? wth?

Windows 2003/2008 is far better than Windows 2000 unless you are dealing with super super legacy hardware. And even then, a majority of industrial stuff should support 2003/XP.
 
heatlesssun said:
I work at a US mega bank and am very familiar with what you're talking about here. For most our business and back office operations tablets don't mean much. For sales folks though they have a lot of use but they'd never be carrying private information on tablet, or at least that's STRICTLY prohibited.
Click to expand...

Sure it maybe strictly prohibited but the amount of WORK and Money to implement this is astounding. Again it also depends on the user. Users can't be trusted at all to self police themselves not to store personal data. Again rules and regulations and laws will drastically cut this down to a trickle.

This is why corporate environment also like dumb devices because they reference a cloud source rather then local. 300 dollar tablet will do the job do they need a Surface Pro to do the job hell no because it has to MUCH power. Plus its really expensive.
 
Fort_Major said:
As good as 2000? wth?

Windows 2003/2008 is far better than Windows 2000 unless you are dealing with super super legacy hardware. And even then, a majority of industrial stuff should support 2003/XP.
Click to expand...

God I have legacy Saws running on 95osrb and 98. Some 2k. and XP CE.
 
damicatz said:
I like the double standards here.

When GNU/Linux requires someone to use a command-line, it is because GNU/Linux sucks and is a horrible operating system etc. etc. etc.

When Windows requires the same thing, it is a "feature" and just how the operating system "works".
Click to expand...

Sorry I am not understanding. your comparing Linux which is a "enthusiast" OS to a run of the mill General purpose os?

Can't compare the two.

Granted those server 2012 is turning into novel. Back to the command line.
 
Wrench00 said:
This is why corporate environment also like dumb devices because they reference a cloud source rather then local. 300 dollar tablet will do the job do they need a Surface Pro to do the job hell no because it has to MUCH power. Plus its really expensive.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Implementing a totally cloud or virtual environment for all the employees and apps that we use as enterprise is a huge and not at all cheap task. For a lot of things sure it makes sense.
 
Wrench00 said:
God I have legacy Saws running on 95osrb and 98. Some 2k. and XP CE.
Click to expand...

Hah, ouch. In that arena I was 2k and we were able to upgrade all servers to 2k3 (drivers were available) and XP (non-CE) (everything was COM port driven).
 
Wrench00 said:
Sorry I am not understanding. your comparing Linux which is a "enthusiast" OS to a run of the mill General purpose os?

Can't compare the two.

Granted those server 2012 is turning into novel. Back to the command line.
Click to expand...

Not to get all OS crazy but your pretty far out of your lane when it comes to corporate IT, development and current server environments if you think Linux is an "enthusiast" OS in this day and age. Red Hat is making eating MS lunch with a couple large businesses where I live because XP is going out. They can justify a new support contract (which they were buying anyhow) but not replacing every desktop they own.
 
Fort_Major said:
As good as 2000? wth?

Windows 2003/2008 is far better than Windows 2000 unless you are dealing with super super legacy hardware. And even then, a majority of industrial stuff should support 2003/XP.
Click to expand...

that have customers still using VAX systems... so yea
 
heatlesssun said:
How old are these desktops such that can't run Windows 7?
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It's not necessarily a matter of not-running them, it's that it's not pretty. Windows 7/vista starts getting pretty painful on a first/2nd gen intel duo core if the ram is low.

Chances are pretty high those machines are pre-duo core.

XP was actually built for pre 1ghz machines and was extremely usable for mid-level stuff given enough ram. The same can't be said for Vista or Windows 7.

You can easily resurrect 500-700ghz machines on older Ubuntu (10?) again, the same can't be said for Vista or Windows 7.

One could argue that you could see long term advantages by upgrading the hardware but then again if the task is to replace 500 computers that work fine, why spend 25-50k unnecessarily. Replace them as they actually fail.
 
And I suppose I should point out that the XP that was released pre SP2 was happy @ 256MB of ram. Give it 2GB and it would do hat tricks and dance
 
Fort_Major said:
It's not necessarily a matter of not-running them, it's that it's not pretty. Windows 7/vista starts getting pretty painful on a first/2nd gen intel duo core if the ram is low.

Chances are pretty high those machines are pre-duo core.

XP was actually built for pre 1ghz machines and was extremely usable for mid-level stuff given enough ram. The same can't be said for Vista or Windows 7.

You can easily resurrect 500-700ghz machines on older Ubuntu (10?) again, the same can't be said for Vista or Windows 7.

One could argue that you could see long term advantages by upgrading the hardware but then again if the task is to replace 500 computers that work fine, why spend 25-50k unnecessarily. Replace them as they actually fail.
Click to expand...

My point was that if we're talking about PCs that can't run 7 or 8 reasonably then we're probably talking about some old hardware, which pre-Core Duo platforms definitely are. If a Linux distro can handle the job there's nothing wrong with that. However I don't think that Microsoft is losing a lot of sleep over not getting on PCs that are less powerful than modern cell phones and tablets.
 
heatlesssun said:
My point was that if we're talking about PCs that can't run 7 or 8 reasonably then we're probably talking about some old hardware, which pre-Core Duo platforms definitely are. If a Linux distro can handle the job there's nothing wrong with that. However I don't think that Microsoft is losing a lot of sleep over not getting on PCs that are less powerful than modern cell phones and tablets.
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Last I checked corporate licensing fees weren't based on the age of the machine it's being put on. I'll go out on a limb and say Microsoft would rather sell 200 seats on old core duo Dells, then 150 on a brand new one.

Your still thinking like a consumer though.

Should they buy new machines? Probably. Now convince some CFO/CEO/owner to open the wallet when he's spent the past 3 years laying off people and keeping things afloat. New machines are likely about 999 on the to do list right now. And I don't blame him/her one bit. It's the Microsofts/Suse/Red Hat's of the wolrd's job to meet the customers needs, not the other way around. If Microsoft is not worried about losing licenses on "old" hardware in the corporate sector they better get their collective heads out of their asses.
 
Ghettobox said:
Last I checked corporate licensing fees weren't based on the age of the machine it's being put on. I'll go out on a limb and say Microsoft would rather sell 200 seats on old core duo Dells, then 150 on a brand new one.

Your still thinking like a consumer though.

Should they buy new machines? Probably. Now convince some CFO/CEO/owner to open the wallet when he's spent the past 3 years laying off people and keeping things afloat. New machines are likely about 999 on the to do list right now. And I don't blame him/her one bit. It's the Microsofts/Suse/Red Hat's of the wolrd's job to meet the customers needs, not the other way around. If Microsoft is not worried about losing licenses on "old" hardware in the corporate sector they better get their collective heads out of their asses.
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Actually I'm thinking like a business. Sure the more customers and business the better but some customers aren't worth it. I think that Microsoft has more things to worry about than the ancient desktop market particularly since Windows 7 and 8 have held the line on hardware requirements.
 
I have a couple of programs from Stardock, guess this one is going into my collection. Only one I regret getting is the one for one Keyboard and Mouse for multiple PCs and I got that one for free (seems to cause lag when a move from one PC to another) :D
 
heatlesssun said:
Actually I'm thinking like a business. Sure the more customers and business the better but some customers aren't worth it. I think that Microsoft has more things to worry about than the ancient desktop market particularly since Windows 7 and 8 have held the line on hardware requirements.
Click to expand...
No, that's not business thinking at all; that sounds more like corporate waste.

A good business should justify purchases and re-use resources for as long as it makes sense to. And for a lot of businesses re purposing "outdated" hardware fits the bill, because not all tasks are that intensive.
 
Fort_Major said:
No, that's not business thinking at all; that sounds more like corporate waste.

A good business should justify purchases and re-use resources for as long as it makes sense to. And for a lot of businesses re purposing "outdated" hardware fits the bill, because not all tasks are that intensive.
Click to expand...

I was talking about Microsoft's perspective. I said already that if holding on to these older machines is good for the businesses in question, more power to them. Again, I don't think that supporting ever aging hardware is something that Microsoft needs to be particularly concerned over as Windows 7/8 have done a good job at holding the line on hardware requirements.

As to the leak at hand, it does look staged as the Microsoft announced Build and a public preview of Blue in June. If you don't like Windows 8 or Metro, so far it doesn't look like there's much that's going to change the most ardent of that crowd. For people that actually use it and new UI Microsoft has definitely been listening. I just found a registry hack that allows backwards and forwards touch swiping IE navigation for the desktop version which actually does come in handy when you need to use the desktop browser on a tablet for plug-ins. And it looks like synching is much more powerful. Using the same Microsoft account it looks like apps can be installed and uninstalled on one device and then automatically installed and uninstalled on other devices. If that's the case that's very, very useful.

I guess we'll see in a couple of months if there's going to be anything to please the desktop purist crowd other than the Start Menu/Button which doesn't look like that's happening.
 
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