Galaxy Note II screen latency?

[T4rd]

Yes I'm sure Samsung is reading this very thread right now, or perhaps Kyle will give his buddy Oh-Hyun Kwon a call and get this remedied right away.

It is one thing to let people know about it is another to use the proper channels to get the ball rolling. Somehow I don't think the [H] is the proper channel...just saying.

Pretty much what I thought when I read that too.

Seriously guys, GTFOver it or go get you an iDerp if it's that painstaking to use. I'm pretty sure the input lag is due to hardware (as in the digitizer), so there's not going to be any "fix" for this relatively minor issue. I think out of the millions that this phone has sold, it would have to be recognized by tens or hundreds of thousands for it to get Samsung's attention. It doesn't help that any professional review I've ever seen on the phone (and I'm pretty sure I read/saw them all when I was shopping for one) doesn't mention or acknowledge the "issue." I don't think it's hardly exclusive to the Note 2 either though, I'd bet you see the same amount of input lag on any newer HTC, LG, Moto, etc. phone.

 

[ultimatebyte]

From all phones i tried, Note 2 and SGS 3 is one of the worst.

iThings has the same bad stuff, but a bit better than SGS3 gen.
http://gamesfromwithin.com/lag-the-bane-of-touch-screens


Here you can find clues for why it could be mostly fixable for iOS for example.


" it would have to be recognized by tens or hundreds of thousands for it to get Samsung's attention."
Hello, we're on the internet, there is way more than thousand poeple, and for sure, if you're affraid of being a bit brave and getting them all together, they won't recognize anything.

 

[Monstieur]

Samsung Galaxy S3
HTC EVO 4g LTE
Samsung Note 2

Each of these are very easily considered better then an Iphone. I can only assume you havent used an iphone, because if you had you would know them for the overpriced pieces of shit they are.

When in Hawaii I loved watching an in-law talk about how great apple is and that people should just buy iphones because everything else is a pale copy. The hilarious part was when watching him try to use Siri multiple times a day and having it come back with a "I dont understand" or "please say that again" response damn near every time.

Zero input lag is more important to me than other features. Every Android device feels like such a shitty unresponsive "me too" device that fails to copy the iPhone's touch response.

 

[T4rd]

From all phones i tried, Note 2 and SGS 3 is one of the worst.

iThings has the same bad stuff, but a bit better than SGS3 gen.

Not from what your buddy KurianOfBorg is saying here.

" it would have to be recognized by tens or hundreds of thousands for it to get Samsung's attention."
Hello, we're on the internet, there is way more than thousand poeple, and for sure, if you're affraid of being a bit brave and getting them all together, they won't recognize anything.

I think you missed that emphasized part.

Zero input lag is more important to me than other features. Every Android device feels like such a shitty unresponsive "me too" device that fails to copy the iPhone's touch response.

Then get an iPhone or WP device and move on. You're one of the few here that feels that way, I think we've established this several times now.

 

[Monstieur]

Then get an iPhone or WP device and move on. You're one of the few here that feels that way, I think we've established this several times now.

Why the hell would I do that? The iPhone is an unethical, illegal, anti-trust violating device. It should be illegal to sell a computer that doesn't run the user's software of choice. Microsoft gets sued for including a free browser in their OS but Apple gets away with NOT ALLOWING OTHER BROWSERS AT ALL?

Even Linux should have been GPLv3. That would have made it illegal to use locked bootloaders without giving users the private key to sign their own.

 

[T4rd]

Why the hell would I do that? The iPhone is an unethical, illegal, anti-trust violating device. It should be illegal to sell a computer that doesn't run the user's software of choice. Microsoft gets sued for including a free browser in their OS but Apple gets away with NOT ALLOWING OTHER BROWSERS AT ALL?

Even Linux should have been GPLv3. That would have made it illegal to use locked bootloaders without giving users the private key to sign their own.

But you said it yourself:

The only solution is to buy an iPhone 5 now that it's jailbroken.

C'mon now. You're contradicting yourself and losing what little credibility you had left.

 

[Monstieur]

But you said it yourself:



C'mon now. You're contradicting yourself and losing what little credibility you had left.

For other people who want freedom and touch response. I don't want one. Many people don't need all the advanced things you can do on Android. They just need some tweaks which Apple stupidly refuses to implement such as a Wifi toggle. Jailbroken is sufficient for them.

 

[T4rd]

For other people who want freedom and touch response. I don't want one. Many people don't need all the advanced things you can do on Android. They just need some tweaks which Apple stupidly refuses to implement such as a Wifi toggle. Jailbroken is sufficient for them.

Well it sounds like you're in quite the predicament then. It must suck not being happy with anything.

In the mean time, let this thread die since there's nothing you can do about it (at least on this phone).

 

[Monstieur]

Well it sounds like you're in quite the predicament then. It must suck not being happy with anything.

In the mean time, let this thread die since there's nothing you can do about it (at least on this phone).

No I intend to modify the touchscreen driver in the CM-Kernel source. It has a LOT of hardcoded tweakable values.

Something I noticed is that the device only registers your touch after your finger has been constantly in contact with the screen for around 50ms. Only a continuous press of 50ms or more will trigger a touch event.

This means it's not strictly an input latency. Quickly pressing the screen for less than 50ms does not register a touch at all. This does not happen on the iPhone. It instantly registers any contact with the touchscreen. If it was purely input latency, any contact would be registered after a delay.

There is excessive filtering going on and this can probably be fixed in the driver. The Atmel mXT224 touchscreen specs say it has a refresh rate of 240Hz and a sub 10ms input latency.

 

[ultimatebyte]

Well it sounds like you're in quite the predicament then. It must suck not being happy with anything.

In the mean time, let this thread die since there's nothing you can do about it (at least on this phone).

Well, if you wanna play it that way, as I'm now seeing you attacking unhappy poeple with no valuable reason, just that you think that being optimistic is stupid, I guess that you must be pretty frustrated yourself.



PS : Windows phone : Not better input lag from what i saw. Iphone : Still enough input lag to be boring, even if better than new Samsung phones + all the inconvenients you're able to think about when not trolling Android lovers. In case if you didn't understand, I (we ?) like android so much that we wanna see it improved so we can keep on using it and be happy with it, as this is the only very unpleasant thing that I can see.

 

[T4rd]

Well, if you wanna play it that way, as I'm now seeing you attacking unhappy poeple with no valuable reason, just that you think that being optimistic is stupid, I guess that you must be pretty frustrated yourself.



PS : Windows phone : Not better input lag from what i saw. Iphone : Still enough input lag to be boring, even if better than new Samsung phones + all the inconvenients you're able to think about when not trolling Android lovers. In case if you didn't understand, I (we ?) like android so much that we wanna see it improved so we can keep on using it and be happy with it, as this is the only very unpleasant thing that I can see.

Wat.

I didn't attack anyone. Is English your native language? Regardless, you need to work on your reading and interpretation skills. This is the second consecutive time that you haven't read what I've said, resulting in you not making any sense. If you had read my posts, you'd know that I own a Note 2 and do not see the input latency to be an issue in any way to the extent that it interferes with the phones normal usage. This is the consensus of the majority of Note 2 owners too, which is why this "issue" most likely won't be resolved, at least by Samsung. So how in the world would I be frustrated? Lol.. You all are the ones that are complaining about it, I'm just being realistic in saying that it most likely won't be fixed and you should either deal with it or move on to another device (most of which exhibit about the same input latency).

Also, I wasn't the one that originally told him to just get an iPhone, if you had read my post, you'd see that quote where he suggested that it was the only solution.

 

[ultimatebyte]

I'm not a native English speaker, but I understood you well, no need to repeat. Just saying if you take as much time just to say "come on guys, you're a minority, nobody will hear you" 50 different ways, it probably hides something in your personality.

"Well it sounds like you're in quite the predicament then. It must suck not being happy with anything." => this is some kind of attack, sorry to say it.
"In the mean time, let this thread die since there's nothing you can do about it (at least on this phone)." => +1, let it die if there's nothing else you can do to contribute, don't spam it.

The fact is there is not any other device that satisfies me as much as this one, the perfect product hasn't been released yet, so if Samsung doesn't, we have to fix it ourselves OR to make poeple aware of this bad spec, so they ask for it to be improved, and then Samsung will probably correct it for future smartphones, and everyone will be amazed of the phones' responsiveness.

What I'm sure about, is that when you accept bad things as they are because "it doesn't matter that much", you won't ever improve anything.

 

[T4rd]

I'm not a native English speaker, but I understood you well, no need to repeat. Just saying if you take as much time just to say "come on guys, you're a minority, nobody will hear you" 50 different ways, it probably hides something in your personality.

"Well it sounds like you're in quite the predicament then. It must suck not being happy with anything." => this is some kind of attack, sorry to say it.
"In the mean time, let this thread die since there's nothing you can do about it (at least on this phone)." => +1, let it die if there's nothing else you can do to contribute, don't spam it.

The fact is there is not any other device that satisfies me as much as this one, the perfect product hasn't been released yet, so if Samsung doesn't, we have to fix it ourselves OR to make poeple aware of this bad spec, so they ask for it to be improved, and then Samsung will probably correct it for future smartphones, and everyone will be amazed of the phones' responsiveness.

I don't agree about it being an attack. Condescending, maybe, but not an attack.

Despite what King says, I think it's hardware, so good luck fixing that. This isn't the appropriate forum to bring this issue to Samsung's attention either. I think touch screen responsiveness will get better anyways as tech evolves. I'm pretty sure the engineers responsible for hardware design and implementation are plenty aware of how much room there is for improvement on modern touch screens and digitizers.

What I'm sure about, is that when you accept bad things as they are because "it doesn't matter that much", you won't ever improve anything.

 

[ultimatebyte]

The touchscreen refresh rate is apparently 240hz, so how could it lead into a 80ms input lag if it's not software ? And the display screen is 10ms hardware input lag.

It's probably a part of touchscreen's drivers : the delays, error corrections used for recognition : so need reverse engineering to hope for a fix.



"I think touch screen responsiveness will get better anyways as tech evolves."
So why the SGS3 has better input lag than the SGS1 ? Engineers are (i hope) not stupid, and are for sure aware of input lag, and may think it doesn't matter, or wanted to save a bit of money, in every case it's a big mistake from Samsung.


"you won't ever improve anything." => at least someone is not fatalist and is trying to make things better in any way he can.

 

[Climber]

The touchscreen refresh rate is apparently 240hz, so how could it lead into a 80ms input lag if it's not software ? And the display screen is 10ms hardware input lag.

It's probably a part of touchscreen's drivers : the delays, error corrections used for recognition : so need reverse engineering to hope for a fix.



"I think touch screen responsiveness will get better anyways as tech evolves."
So why the SGS3 has better input lag than the SGS1 ? Engineers are (i hope) not stupid, and are for sure aware of input lag, and may think it doesn't matter, or wanted to save a bit of money, in every case it's a big mistake from Samsung.


"you won't ever improve anything." => at least someone is not fatalist and is trying to make things better in any way he can.

What you're complaining about is the equivalent of buying a Porsche or Corvette and living where the speed limit is 65 mph. The Note 2 isn't hindered by touch screen lag. There isn't a single app that doesn't work because it has 10ms less response time for gaming, casual, or business applications that I know of.

Do I want to see technology increase? Sure, but yelling and insulting people because they don't agree with you isn't the way to do it, especially when said people have nothing to do with making said changes.

 

[Monstieur]

What you're complaining about is the equivalent of buying a Porsche or Corvette and living where the speed limit is 65 mph. The Note 2 isn't hindered by touch screen lag. There isn't a single app that doesn't work because it has 10ms less response time for gaming, casual, or business applications that I know of.

Do I want to see technology increase? Sure, but yelling and insulting people because they don't agree with you isn't the way to do it, especially when said people have nothing to do with making said changes.

Sorry but I find EVERY game broken on Samsung devices. It's impossible to play games like Fruit Ninja or Canabalt with the input lag.

 

[T4rd]

Sorry but I find EVERY game broken on Samsung devices. It's impossible to play games like Fruit Ninja or Canabalt with the input lag.

This guy doesn't seem to have an issue on the original Note. Nor this guy on the Note 2.

I don't have any problems playing it on my Note 2 either. There is noticeable input lag, but I still don't believe that it's excessive or nearly as bad as you portray.

I've said my piece (a few times) now. You all keep at it. If you can tweak the drivers/software to get response time lower, great, but I think it's a waste of effort. The S4 and HTC One isn't too far off now, maybe you should just hold off until they come out to see if they have the < 10 ms response times you require.

 

[ultimatebyte]

What you're complaining about is the equivalent of buying a Porsche or Corvette and living where the speed limit is 65 mph. The Note 2 isn't hindered by touch screen lag. There isn't a single app that doesn't work because it has 10ms less response time for gaming, casual, or business applications that I know of.

Do I want to see technology increase? Sure, but yelling and insulting people because they don't agree with you isn't the way to do it, especially when said people have nothing to do with making said changes.

You guys are starting to be really boring. Here is why i'm yelling (but as far is i know, i didn't insult anyone). I'm sick of having to justify myself every time and repeat the same things, just because some of you think that it's not a big deal. Well some poeple listen to music on youtube with the poor quality we all know, and they won't ever notice or be aware that it sucks because they don't have the ability to do so, they're not even asking the question. That's not a reason to penalize everyone with youtube sound quality everywhere, even on CDs you could buy. That's the exact same thing here with input lag.

Your comparaison is wrong, the right one is : You buy a Porsche, and it's fast, everything is fine, but when you turn your wheel, there is a delay to see the effects of your action because of new "superawesome" electronic controls.
Would you find it normal ?

The only difference is that with a car, it would become a real danger because of the loss of accuracy and responsiveness. Wouldn't be a very dangerous when driving at 30km/h as you would have the time to correct your direction, but it would still be boring, and it would become very annoying and dangerous at 120km/h.

Well when you're on basic apps on your phone (mails, desktop, app list, etc.) it's not a big deal but you can still feel a lack of responsiveness that can already drive you mad... But when you wan't to play any game in wich your finger actually controls a movement (the worst is when it controls the view), that becomes horrible. Even drawing is boring with that.

If you can't understand that this way, well i'm sorry for you, and sorry for every sensitive customers, next time samsung will release a half second input lag phone, and I hope I'll see you crying this time, because you did nothing to make the world better, as little as the improvement would change your life, you just tried to discourage poeple that had different needs than yours saying "HEY, YOU HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS SO STOP COMPLAINING AND LEAVE US WITH OUR BAD STUFF WE LOVE SO MUCH"

If something is not perfect, ignoring it won't make it any better, may even make it worse. Hope that makes sense to you, if it doesn't, call 911, you may have been under a serious injury.

 

[ultimatebyte]

This guy doesn't seem to have an issue on the original Note. Nor this guy on the Note 2.

I don't have any problems playing it on my Note 2 either. There is noticeable input lag, but I still don't believe that it's excessive or nearly as bad as you portray.

I've said my piece (a few times) now. You all keep at it. If you can tweak the drivers/software to get response time lower, great, but I think it's a waste of effort. The S4 and HTC One isn't too far off now, maybe you should just hold off until they come out to see if they have the < 10 ms response times you require.

Are you blind ? The input lag is obvious, and the second guy isn't accurate at all when playing on the Note 2, it just looks like me when I don't find any reponsiveness. I'm sorry to say so, but your senses are obviously not sensitive enough.

BTW, i can't wait for the S4 to be released but i'm really affraid the input lag will be the same.

For now i'm not asking for a <10ms input lag, but at least less than half of 150ms... That's the goddamn minimum for a 540€ device OMG.

 

[ultimatebyte]

Sorry but I find EVERY game broken on Samsung devices. It's impossible to play games like Fruit Ninja or Canabalt with the input lag.

Totally agree. It's a bit hard to play Vice City too even if the game is a bit slow. But FPS are really impossible, i tried 15 minutes then i stopped cause it was useless.

 

[T4rd]

Are you blind ? The input lag is obvious, and the second guy isn't accurate at all when playing on the Note 2, it just looks like me when I don't find any reponsiveness. I'm sorry to say so, but your senses are obviously not sensitive enough.

BTW, i can't wait for the S4 to be released but i'm really affraid the input lag will be the same.

For now i'm not asking for a <10ms input lag, but at least less than half of 150ms... That's the goddamn minimum for a 540€ device OMG.

Lolwtf.. Failure to read again. I didn't say there wasn't lag, I said they didn't seem to have an issue with it. I also said there was noticeable input lag! Jesus Christ man..

The point was that you can still play the game fine with it.

Now please reply back with "but it can be better and we shouldn't have to deal with it and you're bad because you don't think we should expect more from expensive phones or do anything about it blah blah blah.."

 

[ultimatebyte]

but it can be better and we shouldn't have to deal with it and you're bad because you don't think we should expect more from expensive phones or do anything about it blah blah blah..


I've read you very well, even if you made me doubting cause I got to get some sleep right now.

=> You said input lag was low enough, you said he can"play fine", well I say no, it's obvious that his moves look like he's retarded on the Note2.
OK you won't do hardcore gaming with your phone, but anyway, maybe my last argument : that's the thing most of us use the most every day, if it's not responsive, even if still usable, it's just bothering you, and i'm pretty sure that it unconciously has at least an effect on every single customer...

We got different subjective opinions, you think we can accept it, I think we can't, but from both of us, I'm the only one needing something, so why are you loosing your energy to say "you don't need that", or "that's not a big deal", or "you can't fix it, deal with it" ? If i'm doing these efforts, it's because I feel like I need it to be improved, what's wrong for you with that ? What's wrong with you ? Just deal with it.

 

[T4rd]

We got different subjective opinions, you think we can accept it, I think we can't, but from both of us, I'm the only one needing something, so why are you loosing your energy to say "you don't need that", or "that's not a big deal", or "you can't fix it, deal with it" ? If i'm doing these efforts, it's because I feel like I need it to be improved, what's wrong for you with that ? What's wrong with you ? Just deal with it.

There's nothing wrong with me. Mostly the reason why I'm arguing that it's not a big deal, is for anyone that finds this thread to be dissuaded from buying this phone because for 95%+ of users out there, it truly is a non-issue. I have seen several people at work with this phone and when I ask how they like the phone or if they've had any issues with it, never once did any of them mention the touch screens responsiveness. If they had anything to complain about it was usually size or finding the right case for it, but they were getting use to it.

Another small reason is because you're most likely not going to fix it and I was just trying to spare you the time and effort of trying to fix it if you were actually going to decipher the drivers and software that are potentially responsible for it, because by the time you would find a fix of it (if it happens), there would be a newer phone out that may not have this "issue" and you could easily sell the Note 2 (since there will probably be a high demand for it until the next Note releases) for the majority of the price of that next-gen phone. But I can see that there's no talking you of King out of that, so have fun.

 

[Skull_Angel]

The thing is that the issue (and it does exist) is a big deal if you want to use your wireless device for any action gaming; that's not my thing personally, but I can sympathize with other people that do enjoy doing so.

Dissuading someone from seeking an answer to a problem (that may or may not be fixable) because it may be fixed withing the next few generations is just kind of silly, wouldn't you agree? I say let him seek his solution if he wants to, and if he does find it let the community know there is a solution for those that can benefit from it...

 

[DriZzLe]

Sorry but I find EVERY game broken on Samsung devices. It's impossible to play games like Fruit Ninja or Canabalt with the input lag.

You must have a defective device then. None of those games play poorly on my note. Also, Blood & Glory Legends, Temple Run, and I am usually in the top 3 playing Shadowgun deadzone. Can't perceive any input lag. Your phone must be broke.

 

[Climber]

I'm sorry your professional cell phone game careers are threatened by cell phone lag. I'm sure your fps shooter skills are also hindered by mouse lag, screen response time, and the lack of a proper CRT as well.

Maybe one day technology will catch up to your amazing skills.

 

[DriZzLe]

I'm sorry your professional cell phone game careers are threatened by cell phone lag. I'm sure your fps shooter skills are also hindered by mouse lag, screen response time, and the lack of a proper CRT as well.

Maybe one day technology will catch up to your amazing skills.

lol

 

[ultimatebyte]

There's nothing wrong with me. Mostly the reason why I'm arguing that it's not a big deal, is for anyone that finds this thread to be dissuaded from buying this phone because for 95%+ of users out there, it truly is a non-issue. I have seen several people at work with this phone and when I ask how they like the phone or if they've had any issues with it, never once did any of them mention the touch screens responsiveness. If they had anything to complain about it was usually size or finding the right case for it, but they were getting use to it.

Another small reason is because you're most likely not going to fix it and I was just trying to spare you the time and effort of trying to fix it if you were actually going to decipher the drivers and software that are potentially responsible for it, because by the time you would find a fix of it (if it happens), there would be a newer phone out that may not have this "issue" and you could easily sell the Note 2 (since there will probably be a high demand for it until the next Note releases) for the majority of the price of that next-gen phone. But I can see that there's no talking you of King out of that, so have fun.

Did you read my comparaison with youtube's quality ? If you understood it, you would'nt say that. That's not because most poeple are not sensitive to a problem that you should penalize everyone.

And well, be sure if the SGS4 doesn't have this high obvious 1/7s latency, and if Note 2 is not fixable, i'll sell it as soon as I can.

Anyway, you won't stop me, a war has began between the lack of informations of poeple, Samsung, and me : I want poeple to be aware that input lag-free devices are amazing, and happily, most poeple understant what it is and why it's a problem thanks to Microsoft's video,

The thing is that the issue (and it does exist) is a big deal if you want to use your wireless device for any action gaming; that's not my thing personally, but I can sympathize with other people that do enjoy doing so.

Dissuading someone from seeking an answer to a problem (that may or may not be fixable) because it may be fixed withing the next few generations is just kind of silly, wouldn't you agree? I say let him seek his solution if he wants to, and if he does find it let the community know there is a solution for those that can benefit from it...

Thanks, that's exactly what's wrong about T4rd, but i wasn't able to say that as good as you. => Just let us try to solve a problem if we think it worth it, you have nothing to earn dissuading us, you're just boring.

You must have a defective device then. None of those games play poorly on my note. Also, Blood & Glory Legends, Temple Run, and I am usually in the top 3 playing Shadowgun deadzone. Can't perceive any input lag. Your phone must be broke.

Or you have defective eyes, sorry for you. Not being able to see a 1/7s delay is sad.
As you say you "can't percieve", that's the exact good formulation. because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And because some poeple are OK with youtube's sound quality for listening to music doesn't mean it's a good quality...

I'm sorry your professional cell phone game careers are threatened by cell phone lag. I'm sure your fps shooter skills are also hindered by mouse lag, screen response time, and the lack of a proper CRT as well.

Maybe one day technology will catch up to your amazing skills.

Very funny little ignorant guy. I told about PC gaming (at least on xda but i guess here too) : I've got a very low input lag screen and low input lag mouse, so i got between 1 to about 12ms input lag (according to different measurement of professionnal websites and excluding the screen's refresh rate latency). => This is fairly enough for my skills.

Every gamer that respects himself knows about input lag, because he noticed it, googled it, and found the phenomenon.

So yeah, quality devices does exists, and a good display device should try : To have always higher refresh rate, low persistence, good contrast, good luminosity (high max and mini amplitude, and that keeps a good contrast), good colors, and always low as heaven input lag, so at least so you find it responsive; that's the minimum you can ask, it souldn't even be a question and testers shouldn't even have to measure it, we're in 2013, and we have ways to avoid input lag for christ sake.

 

[FearTheCow]

So to sum what you said up:
- A 1/7th second delay makes a device unusable.
- If someone cant see/feel a 1/7th second delay then you should be ashamed of yourself.
- A single thread, involving you and what, 2 other people on XDA means there is a huge problem that is widely recognized.
- Someone is ignorant if they think gaming with a 1/7th second delay is usable.

Now on top of this there are only two people in this thread who have a problem with the delay, one of which is involved in the 3 person thread on XDA...

I think it is pretty obvious that there is a serious problem, it just has nothing to do with an electronic device.

 

[ultimatebyte]

I agree with your sum up, except this "- A single thread, involving you and what, 2 other people on XDA means there is a huge problem that is widely recognized."

This is a huge problem for some of us, and you just gotta look on XDA to see that some poeple find ourselves in what I say. + i got many "thanks" button pressed on the main topic, more than answering people on the thread.
And this is a very unknown "problem" to the lamda people, or would I say an unknow "technical specificity" as when you don't know about it, it's hard to notice and hard to know what makes this feeling you have, and that it's not an input smoothing.

The fact is whatever you're doing, you're faster and more accurate with less input lag, even when web browsing or browsing apps, in anything that requires scrolling or even tapping. And in games, it's just even more obvious.

 

[Ocellaris]

Another small reason is because you're most likely not going to fix it and I was just trying to spare you the time and effort of trying to fix it if you were actually going to decipher the drivers and software that are potentially responsible for it, because by the time you would find a fix of it (if it happens), there would be a newer phone out that may not have this "issue" and you could easily sell the Note 2 (since there will probably be a high demand for it until the next Note releases) for the majority of the price of that next-gen phone. But I can see that there's no talking you of King out of that, so have fun.

By this logic, pretty much the entire cell phone modding community is wasting their time. New phones will always be coming out, and those people could just sell their current phones for better phones.

People need to start somewhere, and getting interested in fixing stuff like this is where it starts. With some of my older Android phones, people with zero modding experience managed to create some fairly good custom ROMs and even do a few unique tweaks.

 

[Johnny78]

God this thread is so tiresome. Why won't it die???? Why am I even posting in it and thereby helping to perpetuate it's existence?? ARRRGGGGG!!

Here's how I see it. Is there some screen lag on this device? Sure. Is it perceivable? Yes, at times it is. Do people like ultimatebye and Kurian have a right to rail against this screen lag and make it their personal mission in life to seek out a solution to this perceived injustice? Of course they do. Its a free country (well actually both of these guys are clearly not native speakers and may indeed live in a country where personal freedoms are extremely limited however for the sake of this argument let's assume they're both Americans).

But here's the bottome line. The screen response time on this phone is a complete non-issue for probably 99% of the owners of this phone. There are dozens of professional reviews and thousands of lay reviews of this phone and I can't find any of them which list screen response as a major issue of this phone. I would wager very good money, that if you interviewed 1000 GN2 owners, I doubt more than 2 or 3 would enumerate screen lag as a major problem with this phone.

In other words, ULTIMATEBYE and KURIANOFBORG, you are the OUTLIERS. You are not the norm. You are not representative of the overwhelming majority of users. You just happen to be a couple of guys who were born with an extreme sensitivity to mobile phone screen lag. Who knows, maybe someone will come up with a term for this new and rare condition. You are currently on a quest to resolve the epitome of a first world problem. I just ask that you try and be honest with yourself. Don't pretend like you're doing something that will improve the lives of millions of GN2 users. It's pretty much just you, Kurian and maybe that weird hairy guy living down the street. But by all means, please feel to continue on your journey as it is (in theory) a free country.

But also consider the possibility (although I suspect you'll have trouble wrapping your brain around this little nugget) that you are likely doing more of a disservice than anything as you might actually dissuade someone from purchasing this wonderful device because of a fear of the evil screen lag monster. Chances are this hypothetical buyer would most likey fall into the 99% who wouldn't be bothered by the screen response time as opposed to the rare minority who suffer from your condition. Just consider the possibility if you can. I DARE YOU.

 

[T4rd]

By this logic, pretty much the entire cell phone modding community is wasting their time. New phones will always be coming out, and those people could just sell their current phones for better phones.

People need to start somewhere, and getting interested in fixing stuff like this is where it starts. With some of my older Android phones, people with zero modding experience managed to create some fairly good custom ROMs and even do a few unique tweaks.

Well it's one thing to add some common features and tweaks to a ROM that are relatively easy to plug into the OS. It's another to try to modify proprietary lower level driver software in order to attempt to improve touch screen response. The amount of skill and knowledge involved of doing those two things are considerably different. I normally encourage someone to mod to their hearts content when it comes to ROM development, but I really think this sort of task is way above the abilities of anyone here and most (if not all) devs on XDA.

God this thread is so tiresome. Why won't it die???? Why am I even posting in it and thereby helping to perpetuate it's existence?? ARRRGGGGG!!

Here's how I see it. Is there some screen lag on this device? Sure. Is it perceivable? Yes, at times it is. Do people like ultimatebye and Kurian have a right to rail against this screen lag and make it their personal mission in life to seek out a solution to this perceived injustice? Of course they do. Its a free country (well actually both of these guys are clearly not native speakers and may indeed live in a country where personal freedoms are extremely limited however for the sake of this argument let's assume they're both Americans).

But here's the bottome line. The screen response time on this phone is a complete non-issue for probably 99% of the owners of this phone. There are dozens of professional reviews and thousands of lay reviews of this phone and I can't find any of them which list screen response as a major issue of this phone. I would wager very good money, that if you interviewed 1000 GN2 owners, I doubt more than 2 or 3 would enumerate screen lag as a major problem with this phone.

In other words, ULTIMATEBYE and KURIANOFBORG, you are the OUTLIERS. You are not the norm. You are not representative of the overwhelming majority of users. You just happen to be a couple of guys who were born with an extreme sensitivity to mobile phone screen lag. Who knows, maybe someone will come up with a term for this new and rare condition. You are currently on a quest to resolve the epitome of a first world problem. I just ask that you try and be honest with yourself. Don't pretend like you're doing something that will improve the lives of millions of GN2 users. It's pretty much just you, Kurian and maybe that weird hairy guy living down the street. But by all means, please feel to continue on your journey as it is (in theory) a free country.

But also consider the possibility (although I suspect you'll have trouble wrapping your brain around this little nugget) that you are likely doing more of a disservice than anything as you might actually dissuade someone from purchasing this wonderful device because of a fear of the evil screen lag monster. Chances are this hypothetical buyer would most likey fall into the 99% who wouldn't be bothered by the screen response time as opposed to the rare minority who suffer from your condition. Just consider the possibility if you can. I DARE YOU.

Lol, pretty much my exact sentiment. Thanks for that .

 

[Skull_Angel]

I'm honestly surprised by the ignorance through out this thread, but I guess haters gonna hate.

 

[ultimatebyte]

Yeah, I'm living in a "free" country, France.

"Not any review mentioned an input lag problem" : Wrong, we can find some. And some other made youtube videos and stuff.
Did you watch that ? http://gigaom.com/2012/01/19/video-android-touch-lag-and-a-possible-solution/
+ as i said, it's something that is not know very well, it's reserved to intelligent poeple to notice and hate it first (troll), and a very few review mention that on about every mobiles. I'm still pretty sure poeple can feel the bad response of the device even unconciouly, and that they could also feel the improvement while comparing a phone with for example 40 and 150ms input lag. I've got a concrete example for that : A friend of mine played XBOX 360 on a very late TV monitor => He plugged it onto my PC monitor, and told me "It's weird, it feels like it's more responsive and i'm faster" => He didn't complain about it because he thought it was normal, but he was able to see and enjoy the improvement, and to hate his TV. Then after a few settings, I've been able to improve his TV's responsiveness to make it acceptable.

Then it breaks all craps you said about input lag not being important for 99% of poeple. I'd say the exact opposite : it's useful for 99% of poeple that are not retarded, but only 1 to 5% of those are aware of it.

And anyway, as I said, because 99% of poeple don't complain about youtube's sound quality doesn't mean we will burn youtube quality on CDs...

Developping a damn hard fix with reverse engineering is still modding. I wouldn't under-estimate the XDA community. And it's still doable, they did it for example for AOSP ROMs on the SGS1 for the link between Kernel and MODEM. I know that cause I met a French XDA dev into the train for Paris, we've been talking for an hour, and he collaborated about it.

You can't imagine how much i'd be happy if poeple didn't buy the device because of being affraid of the input lag : it would give a monumental lesson to Samsung : Don't make something worst than earlier versions of a phone.

If i'm doing that is to try helping the manufacturers (or at least devs) to reduce input lag, as i think it's the worst thing ever happening about display and input technology.


Well i'll stop arguing after this cause i'm bored of doing so and it doesn't help anyone with anything, except maybe you to consider yourself as important.

 

[King of Heroes]

If you or anyone else's intent was "help" Samsung improve the quality of their phone, you do understand that you're not going to do that posting on a random message board on the internet right? Has anyone actually contacted Samsung about the issue (and by contact I don't mean ranting incoherently in some support thread)?

 

[ultimatebyte]

Finally someone that doesn't look agressive or impetuous. Thanks about that.

I did contact them, three times.

First time : Sent an issue on their website, then called them a few days after (that may have aborted the mail).
My call was to ask how to fix it, they asked me if i made a wipe, i said yes (i didn't, but was sure it wasn't the reason, since i had the issue since the first day, and then i tried other ROMs with the exact same issue differing of a few miliseconds onl). They redirected me to a Samsung center in Paris, i called them, then i understood that it would juste be for a stupid RMA or phone reset.
The second time was just to complain about it and they said they would inform the "appropriate service".
Still better than nothing.

Yes, I know they won't read HardForum, but some engineers do read XDA, that's partly why i made the topic i linked, the other reason being to try to find a fix. But the initial intention of this topic was to try to understand if it was an isolated problem or not, and to try to find a fix too... At least, the problem is now understood, and i'm still spending some time to find a solution, without an answer for now, except : somebody very talented has to make some reverse engineering on the touchscreen's driver, and tweak it


Edit : Resent an email in english to the french support center today, saying : "Please, forward my message to the devs". And explaining how the input lag is high compared to the previous samsung ones, and that the touchscreen implies 80ms itseld. Had an answer saying the message had been forwarded to the "concerned service".

 

[Monstieur]

I'm sorry your professional cell phone game careers are threatened by cell phone lag. I'm sure your fps shooter skills are also hindered by mouse lag, screen response time, and the lack of a proper CRT as well.

Maybe one day technology will catch up to your amazing skills.

I do have a 120Hz 3D monitor with minimal input lag, A PS/2 keyboard with ZERO input lag since it directly interrupts the CPU with every key press and a 1ms response mouse. Why do modern motherboards still come with PS/2 mouse and keyboard ports? Because THEY DON'T LAG, unlike USB. In fact, rapidly moving a USB mouse will completely hog 100% of an entire CPU core and slow down the entire game.

I cannot even use my other monitors for gaming because they have noticeable input lag. When swinging the mouse around in an FPS game you can clearly see the viewport trailing far behind your mouse movements. The 120Hz monitor is faster by an order of magnitude.

 

[Monstieur]

Also, I find it hilarious that some people think touch input lag is non-issue on a touch phone.

 

[Monstieur]

Also in the leaked videos of the Galaxy S4, you can clearly see the unresponsive scrolling. I mean if you can see the touch input lag on a 30fps YouTube video, it's pretty high.