Here Comes Microsoft Surface Pro, 64 Bits and All

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Trimlock said:
I'll have to see how Clover Trail will work with certain applications I use after loaded. I don't care about load times but I do care about portability and performance in the application. Sadly the most extensive game loaded on this may be desktop defender so the GPU isn't of much use for me :p

Intel is working on a full line of ULV CPU's. We should see a G series or maybe a Celeron series next to supplement the vast difference between a ULV i3(haven't seen this in a while)/i5/i7 and the Atom.
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Clover Trail certainly isn't a gaming platform but it can handle a lot of desktop application pretty well. Office 2013 runs quite well though it might chug a bit with larger documents. I really can't complain about the performance of my 500T, but you don't get Clover Trail for performance, it's really about battery life.

The next version of the Atom, Bay Trail, that's the CPU that really could finally put x86 over the top with both great battery and good performance.
 
heatlesssun said:
Clover Trail certainly isn't a gaming platform but it can handle a lot of desktop application pretty well. Office 2013 runs quite well though it might chug a bit with larger documents. I really can't complain about the performance of my 500T, but you don't get Clover Trail for performance, it's really about battery life.

The next version of the Atom, Bay Trail, that's the CPU that really could finally put x86 over the top with both great battery and good performance.
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Bay Trail will be nice but I can't say I'm going to wait for its release. I'll grab a Clover Trail, maybe the 500T for the mean time and see how it chugs with a slew of programs I want to test on it. If it can handle normal duty work loads now, I may turn it into a testing platform for future projects of mine by the time haswell is release. Hopefully by that time they will have something with a bit more power out. Not looking for i-series performance really.
 
Trimlock said:
Bay Trail will be nice but I can't say I'm going to wait for its release. I'll grab a Clover Trail, maybe the 500T for the mean time and see how it chugs with a slew of programs I want to test on it. If it can handle normal duty work loads now, I may turn it into a testing platform for future projects of mine by the time haswell is release. Hopefully by that time they will have something with a bit more power out. Not looking for i-series performance really.
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So what would be an example of a large task you'd want to run on a Clover Trail? Maybe I can test something out for you on my 500T.
 
heatlesssun said:
So what would be an example of a large task you'd want to run on a Clover Trail? Maybe I can test something out for you on my 500T.
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One of the apps that isn't exclusive to my work is excel and running a pretty complicated script, mainly importing large amounts of data and parsing.

If you can't answer that; how easy is it to adjust excel cells, rules and maybe writing a script on the 500t?
 
heatlesssun said:
A look, here you are again making posts that are nothing more than nonsense adding to the total.
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You do realise Skribbly, RedFalcon, Globox, me and everyone else are all separate people? We aren't one entity of thread destroying, we are a team of thread destroying :D
heatlesssun said:
Seriously? Why don't you count SkribbelKat's posts and get back to us.
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Ok, since you asked so nicely, in the period of 1 month ago to 1 month and 1 week ago.

Posts on W8 and tablets threads
heatlesssun: 104
Skribbly: 5
Tudz: 0 (if I count a couple days further back, it's 3)

Posts on [H] in threads not about W8 and tablets:
heatlesssun: 2
Skribbly: 70
Tudz: 30

Give or take a couple, I didn't count individual posts, I just flicked through the pages and found how many HLS posts weren't in W8/tablet threads and vice versa for Skribbil and subtracted from the total ;) Seriously dude, there's a reason we all think you're nuts :p No one else comes close, because to come close would be extreme obsessive compulsive.
 
Tudz said:
You do realise Skribbly, RedFalcon, Globox, me and everyone else are all separate people? We aren't one entity of thread destroying, we are a team of thread destroying :DOk, since you asked so nicely, in the period of 1 month ago to 1 month and 1 week ago.

Posts on W8 and tablets threads
heatlesssun: 104
Skribbly: 5
Tudz: 0 (if I count a couple days further back, it's 3)

Posts on [H] in threads not about W8 and tablets:
heatlesssun: 2
Skribbly: 70
Tudz: 30

Give or take a couple, I didn't count individual posts, I just flicked through the pages and found how many HLS posts weren't in W8/tablet threads and vice versa for Skribbil and subtracted from the total ;) Seriously dude, there's a reason we all think you're nuts :p No one else comes close, because to come close would be extreme obsessive compulsive.
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So once again spam that has nothing to with Windows 8 or tablets. And you and SkribbelKat have made way more posts than you counted just this evening in this thread.
 
heatlesssun said:
So once again spam that has nothing to with Windows 8 or tablets. And you and SkribbelKat have made way more posts than you counted just this evening in this thread.
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he's trying to give you friendly advice, it would be rude to ignore it
 
Trimlock said:
One of the apps that isn't exclusive to my work is excel and running a pretty complicated script, mainly importing large amounts of data and parsing.

If you can't answer that; how easy is it to adjust excel cells, rules and maybe writing a script on the 500t?
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I have a 450,000 row by 20 column spreadsheet. It's a little slow loading and saving, about 30 seconds but formulas and VB script macros run pretty well on it. I'd say if you not looking at large spreadsheets like these you'd be fine overall. If there's some Office benchmark you want me to try I'd be happy too if you think that would help.
 
heatlesssun said:
So once again spam that has nothing to with Windows 8 or tablets. And you and SkribbelKat have made way more posts than you counted just this evening in this thread.
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Just imagine if he counted all of my posts. ;)
 
heatlesssun said:
And I'm also giving friendly advice, spot spamming the threads with nonsense and irrelevant personal attacks.
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heatless.png
 
^ Oh shit, another Microsoft thread is about to get locked.
I didn't do it this time!!! :eek:
 
heatlesssun said:
So once again spam that has nothing to with Windows 8 or tablets. And you and SkribbelKat have made way more posts than you counted just this evening in this thread.
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I will admit I randomly picked a week which happened to not have many posts by me and Skribbly, but I had already counted your posts before counting ours and wasn't gonna change weeks after sifting through 7 pages of your W8/tablet insanity. If, instead, we take the last week.

(Posts in W8/tablets threads)/(total posts)
heatlesssun: 78/89 (88%)
Skribble: 59/101 (58%)
Tudz: 4/12 (33%)
Red Falcon: 35/54 (65%)

I'm certain the further back you go the more you'll find HLS dominates the battle, because as time has gone on the other aforementioned users spend more time poking the crazy :D
Red Falcon said:
Just imagine if he counted all of my posts. ;)
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Done :D
 
Red Falcon said:
^ Oh shit, another Microsoft thread is about to get locked.
I didn't do it this time!!! :eek:
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The way I see it, with the volume and domination of HLS posts in W8/tablet threads on [H], it is totally on topic to talk about his insanity in a W8/tablet because it is as integral to the conversation as the tablet/W8 itself :D
 
Trimlock said:
I don't really get why you guys pick on heatlesssun.

Everyone has a product they like, at least the ones he likes are useful. Most of these conversations end up in the exact same direction it amazes me how all of you have so much time to argue the same thing in everythread of everyday.
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Are you fucking kidding me??? :rolleyes:
 
Trimlock said:
I don't really get why you guys pick on heatlesssun.

Everyone has a product they like, at least the ones he likes are useful. Most of these conversations end up in the exact same direction it amazes me how all of you have so much time to argue the same thing in everythread of everyday.
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Because it's entertaining and I'm genuinely interested how someone could be so fanatical about a product. Seriously, it's been like 6 months at least of many posts per day on the same topic, "everyone has a product they like", no, not like that they don't.

As far as having time to do it, I'd say I dedicate less than 2 hours a month to it, I'm certainly not here every night doing nothing but heatless trolling, just when I happen to wander into a thread and lo and behold it's another episode of the heatlesssun show :rolleyes:
 
Red Falcon said:
Are you fucking kidding me??? :rolleyes:
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No he's not, I actually do provide a lot of information when not dealing with the spam.

One very unique thing about the Surface Pro is it's pen, which unfortunately when I tried to discuss that subject that got derailed, is that the pen is powered and has a charging port:

http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/surface-with-windows-rt/help-me-choose

Notice the connector on the side of the pen. That's quite different from Wacom and N-Trig technologies. Wacom pens don't require power and N-Trig pen use user accessible batteries, usually AAAA that actually last for months at a time. It'll be interesting to see how this pen technology works, if that notch for port interferes with comfort and what the battery life is.
 
Tudz said:
Because it's entertaining and I'm genuinely interested how someone could be so fanatical about a product.
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You have an odd definition of fanatical. I'm simply talking about things that interest me and that I use. Others here are posting the same personal attacks over and over and over and over and over and don't even mention Windows 8. That's fanatical.
 
^ I was more talking about the second part of that guy's post.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, as are we all, I won't deny that.

The Surface Pro actually seems like it's a very good design, but the only two problems I'm seeing with it are the niche area it puts itself into due to the high cost.

High cost + niche category /= good sales for Microsoft, exactly what they need to further this and get costs down.
The Atom variant is good, but outside of very basic uses such as Office or web browsing, even the best Atom processor will struggle at anything demanding processing power; I will say it does have nice battery life for an x86 tablet though.
 
heatlesssun said:
You have an odd definition of fanatical. I'm simply talking about things that interest me and that I use.
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Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

... and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

For month after month after month after month. Yes, that's what I call fanatical in the form of obsessive compulsive disorder.
Others here are posting the same personal attacks over and over and over and over and over and don't even mention Windows 8. That's fanatical.
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I have an interest in W8, as most of us who troll you do, personally I just got bored of every W8 thread turning in to a heatlesssun thread, it's not that I'm less interested in W8.
 
heatlesssun said:
You have an odd definition of fanatical. I'm simply talking about things that interest me and that I use. Others here are posting the same personal attacks over and over and over and over and over and don't even mention Windows 8. That's fanatical.
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The reason we use the term "fanatical" with your posting, is because 99% of your posts are tablet/Win8/MS related.
It's all you talk about.

That's your choice, and I certainly won't try to stop you, nor should anyone else.
But please don't get mad at us when we poke fun at the ridiculous amount of posts you make on said topics, or when we recommend you take a different view point when making decisions.
 
heatlesssun said:
Notice the connector on the side of the pen. That's quite different from Wacom and N-Trig technologies. Wacom pens don't require power and N-Trig pen use user accessible batteries, usually AAAA that actually last for months at a time. It'll be interesting to see how this pen technology works, if that notch for port interferes with comfort and what the battery life is.
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Are you sure that's not just a button? Really hoping it's just Wacom.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
Are you sure that's not just a button? Really hoping it's just Wacom.
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Pretty sure it's a charging port, I can't find what I read about it a while back put I'm pretty certain that this Microsoft's patented pen technology and what's most interesting about it is that it's not electromagnetic but optical, the pen emits light. It's supposed to support pressure sensitivity but I know that that can get quirky with a number apps, Photopshop in particular is very tricky to get working properly with pressure. I'll see if I can dig up the info I saw.
 
heatlesssun said:
I have a 450,000 row by 20 column spreadsheet. It's a little slow loading and saving, about 30 seconds but formulas and VB script macros run pretty well on it. I'd say if you not looking at large spreadsheets like these you'd be fine overall. If there's some Office benchmark you want me to try I'd be happy too if you think that would help.
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Nah not really into benchmarks. I figured it would be fine with excel no matter what as its not that crazy CPU intesive anyways. My big worry was on the touch interface with how easy it would be adjust scripting or individual cell rules.
 
Globox said:
they don't even come close, you'll have to try again
windows8wutt.jpg
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I'm a superstar!!! When's Google gonna send me my check?

http://hardforum.com/archive/index.php/t-1705041.html

And, no, heatless, we don't hate Windows, MS, nor you. In fact, I'm sure if MS/Windows/Win8/Metro were replaced by nVidia/Intel/AMD/Google/Apple and heatlessun replaced with <insert crazyface here>, we'd give that person the same shit too. It's more about the principle here. Many of us just find it lunacy for someone to be so obsessed about a corporation and/or its products. You're a lot like an Apple fanatic but for Microsoft. It's a rare breed, I gotta tell you. There really aren't many of you guys around. In fact, if we go by the sales figures there's gotta be around 5 of you who are the only ones buying MS shit anymore :D
 
Trimlock said:
Also Clover Trail is sub 1W already. It bitch slaps the Tegra3 over at Anand's.
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It's slightly better in perf-per-watt and better CPU performance, but keep in mind that the Tegra 3 is an aging 40nm A9-based design. It's one of the slower ARM SoCs and has been for a while now. The Clover Trail isn't 1W, but higher. It's probably around 3-5W (remember it's an SoC not just a CPU so the GPU, etc. are all added to that). The GPU performance is pitiful and has issues with fluidity in pinch zoom and even flipping through the start screen. Intel still doesn't realize that the GPU matters more in a tablet/phone...

Then there's the price! The Tegra 3 SoC is $15-25. That's it. The Atoms are cheap, and apparently "competitive," but given the pricing on these Win8 tablets it's highly unlikely it's as cheap as a Tegra 3. Haswell chips aren't going to be cheaper than the current Ivy flock but rather more expensive. The battery life at idle should be better, and given that most computing is done at idle that means battery life should improve quite a bit. Still, at load you'll be consuming quite a bit juice. The big cores aren't anywhere near as frugal as the in-order Atom cores. If you're going to buy a Win8 tablet, I'd suggest waiting for Haswell or AMD's Kabini/Temash. AMD's chips look pretty good and should be a good >%25 bump over the Brazos netbook chips while still being cheap and offering enough CPU performance but with pretty good GPU performance as well. The big question with AMD's chips is going to be the power consumption. They should perform better than the Clover Trail Atoms - 4.5W TDP Temash.

The Atoms also require more performance due to being x86 products, and thus need to run legacy programs which require more processing power. The current Clover Trail SoCs are good enough to do your basic tasks (all of which are possible on an ARM tablet for cheaper, btw), but will struggle with your productivity software. It's also still 32-bit only and the products limit it to 2GB RAM, which, depending on your needs, may be too little. The new Bay Trail Atom is due to release in Q4 2013 with products hopefully trickling in by Q1.

If you want to buy a Win8 tablet, I'd highly suggest waiting a few months. By then maybe MS will finally get real and start decreasing prices, the OEMs will also have more products out, and AMD's new tablet/laptop chips will come out along with Intel's Haswell. If we're lucky, Intel will have woken up and realized that nobody gives 2 fucks whether an SoC is x86 or not when essentially all mobile apps are written in Java anyway. Though that's probably asking too much...

Hey, Intel! I can buy a Google Nexus for the price of your shitty i3 Ivy!
 
I have a transformer prime and I enjoy using it around the house and on trips but I WANT MORE POWER! Sure waiting a year will give me a better tablet but I WANT ONE NOW! Battery life around the house is irrelevant and for trips I am getting a compact lightweight external battery.

Over the next couple years Wintel tablets will get cheaper and cheaper, longer and longer battery life, and more power. "Everybody" will have one. "If" you are an IT professional you better have some experience with these devices. Cooking up reasons not to buy one only means you are not a pro...
 
Tudz said:
..., just when I happen to wander into a thread and lo and behold it's another episode of the heatlesssun show :rolleyes:
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Well if it wasn't for a certain cat and bird game being played then he wouldn't post as much ;).
 
03grandam said:
Well if it wasn't for a certain cat and bird game being played then he wouldn't post as much ;).
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He's been posting obsessively for months now, long before the birdy and kitty kat started playing with him in any serious way :D

Tudz said:
in the period of 1 month ago to 1 month and 1 week ago.
Posts on W8 and tablets threads
heatlesssun: 104
Skribbly: 5

Posts on [H] in threads not about W8 and tablets:
heatlesssun: 2
Skribbly: 70
Click to expand...
 
Tudz said:
He's been posting obsessively for months now, long before the birdy and kitty kat started playing with him in any serious way :D
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Now count in the ones from the bird to the post count, because some of Heatless's post were in response to him too ;).
I still stand by what I said. If Heatless wasn't responding to certain posts, his post count in these threads would not be so high.
 
03grandam said:
Now count in the ones from the bird to the post count, because some of Heatless's post were in response to him too ;).
I still stand by what I said. If Heatless wasn't responding to certain posts, his post count in these threads would not be so high.
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You must not have been following W8 and tablet threads for terribly long. People trolling HLS comes from him making absurd volumes of posts over the course of months, not the other way around ;)
 
dgz said:
Nope, cant' pin "Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Sound" and I change my default sound device quite often each day.
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Create and run this script file, just name it sound.vbs:

Code: 
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
strStartMenu = WshShell.SpecialFolders("StartMenu")
set oShellLink = WshShell.CreateShortcut(strStartMenu & "\Sound.lnk")
oShellLink.TargetPath = "%systemroot%\System32\control.exe "
oShellLink.Arguments = "mmsys.cpl sounds"
oShellLink.WindowStyle = 1
oShellLink.IconLocation = "%systemroot%\System32\mmsys.cpl,7"
oShellLink.Description = "Sounds"
oShellLink.WorkingDirectory = "%systemroot%\System32\"
oShellLink.Save
Set oShellLink = Nothing
Wscript.Echo "A Control Panel Sound button has been created. You can now pin them to the Start Screen of your Windows 8 computer (if they are not already there)."

After it's run there should be a tile called "Sound" with a speaker icon. If the title isn't added to the start screen search for "sound" in all programs and it should show up there, then you should be able to pin it to the Start Screen.
 
Tudz said:
You must not have been following W8 and tablet threads for terribly long. People trolling HLS comes from him making absurd volumes of posts over the course of months, not the other way around ;)
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I will agree that he does make a lot of posts about Windows 8 but at least most of his posts are informative and useful to a degree.
 
03grandam said:
I will agree that he does make a lot of posts about Windows 8 but at least most of his posts are informative and useful to a degree.
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Thanks. These guys are spamming these threads with literally hundreds of posts of nothing but attacks and offering not one bit of useful information and then talk about my post count. The hypocrisy is glaring.
 
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