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If Windows 8 fails...
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DeathPrincess
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Needs a "wait for Windows 9 and hope it's more of an improvement" option. The only "keep using Windows 7" option is kind of rigid. 
maboblivion
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Everyone's setting up shop, microsoft to keep it's actioneers happy would have to release a os every year or 2.
You're in the macro bleeding your wallet dry era , there's no going back.
You're in the macro bleeding your wallet dry era , there's no going back.
Darth Millennial
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Windows 8 won't fail. Through new computer purchases or upgrades it will become the dominant OS over the next 18 months.
Yeh, Win 7 didn't come close to doing that, and is just now matching XP.
And just about everyone loves 7.
heatlesssun
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Average people don't really love or hate Windows, they just tend to use what's there.
heatlesssun
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Over its lifetime it's a certainly that Windows 8 will sell hundreds of millions of copies and outnumber all other non-Windows desktop OSes combined. So how does one actually define success or failure for Windows 8?
DeathPrincess
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There's the benefit/PITA equation.
Going to 8, is a PITA and theres no real benefit (never will use a touchscreen or Metro, the new features are pretty unanimously meh, it's annoying to use, doesn't even have a proper Dx version... various issues with new OSes) so isn't worth the downgrade and a bunch of potential issues for no benefit.
OSX is a joke. I pity anyone who uses it, and feel sorry for anyone who likes it. It is just bad, unstable and awful. It has next to no programs, is terrible for lots of software types, and it seems the versions it has are unstable junk versions of the Windows programs. Negative benefit, lots of hassle with an unstable OS that is annoying to use.
Going to Linux isn't an option. I don't want the hassle of Wine, and Linux/Open versions of programs are for the most part junk, then the extra hassle of the way Linux works. I don't want to waste time babysitting dependencies not included so it's GNU, I just want to load stuff and spend more time getting on with things. So theres little/no benefit, and lots of hassle.
There isn't really any other legitimate OSes, other than a bunch which fall under the Linux issues.
But I don't want to stick with 7 forever. I want to upgrade to something, when a proper upgrade option avails itself. Not some service pack with some fluff and some annoying GUI/UI and a store full of adware. There's hope if few people buy 8. That way 9 should hopefully be very different.
But because of all of that, there's no option that fits.
Going to 8, is a PITA and theres no real benefit (never will use a touchscreen or Metro, the new features are pretty unanimously meh, it's annoying to use, doesn't even have a proper Dx version... various issues with new OSes) so isn't worth the downgrade and a bunch of potential issues for no benefit.
OSX is a joke. I pity anyone who uses it, and feel sorry for anyone who likes it. It is just bad, unstable and awful. It has next to no programs, is terrible for lots of software types, and it seems the versions it has are unstable junk versions of the Windows programs. Negative benefit, lots of hassle with an unstable OS that is annoying to use.
Going to Linux isn't an option. I don't want the hassle of Wine, and Linux/Open versions of programs are for the most part junk, then the extra hassle of the way Linux works. I don't want to waste time babysitting dependencies not included so it's GNU, I just want to load stuff and spend more time getting on with things. So theres little/no benefit, and lots of hassle.
There isn't really any other legitimate OSes, other than a bunch which fall under the Linux issues.
But I don't want to stick with 7 forever. I want to upgrade to something, when a proper upgrade option avails itself. Not some service pack with some fluff and some annoying GUI/UI and a store full of adware. There's hope if few people buy 8. That way 9 should hopefully be very different.
But because of all of that, there's no option that fits.
Tsumi
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Well the poll is so obviously biased... there's no option for "Windows 8 is fine" or "I'm already using it."
There is no way that Windows 8 will fail. The OS is relatively bug free, and the masses aren't going to care about the new UI as long as they can easily get to facebook and check their email. OEM sales are what account for the majority of Windows installation sales, not custom built computers. Most people are extremely unlikely to bother downgrading to Windows 7, and if they do... well, Microsoft already got their money.
Not sure why you say those things about OSX, isn't Apple's call to fame how seamlessly and easily everything works together? OSX is also supposed to be completely stable and bug-free on Apple hardware. Sure, programs might be junk, but not the OS.
I highly doubt Windows 9 will have a drastic change in the UI. I believe it's still going to have the same type of interface, so you either should try it out and start getting used to it, or use a program like classic shell.
Personally, I don't find the UI annoying. The app store is still new, and saying that it's full of adware is a bit of a stretch.
There is no way that Windows 8 will fail. The OS is relatively bug free, and the masses aren't going to care about the new UI as long as they can easily get to facebook and check their email. OEM sales are what account for the majority of Windows installation sales, not custom built computers. Most people are extremely unlikely to bother downgrading to Windows 7, and if they do... well, Microsoft already got their money.
Not sure why you say those things about OSX, isn't Apple's call to fame how seamlessly and easily everything works together? OSX is also supposed to be completely stable and bug-free on Apple hardware. Sure, programs might be junk, but not the OS.
I highly doubt Windows 9 will have a drastic change in the UI. I believe it's still going to have the same type of interface, so you either should try it out and start getting used to it, or use a program like classic shell.
Personally, I don't find the UI annoying. The app store is still new, and saying that it's full of adware is a bit of a stretch.
firas
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if Windows 7 can run Team Fortress 3 i'm fine with it
DeathPrincess
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It's probably because it's if Windows 8 fails, or if you don't like windows 8. Having a "I am ok with this" option wouldn't fit.
But, it's not a downgrade. The biggest problem with Windows 8, is that it's a poor service pack with a silly GUI no one asked for. If people are going to be just checking Facebook then they definately have no need for Windows 8 (or a new computer). Vista wasn't terribly sucessful, and 8 has a worse public opinion and image. It was mainly the general public who didn't like Vista, this time it's enthusiasts too who don't like 8. OEMs make money off add-ons, so selling upgrades to 7 is something they will be doing. Especially with 8's terrible reputation.
Have you used it? Fans of that brand will say anything, but it's usually not true, in this case it's an utter lie. In a room of these...things you can garantee at least 2 will be frozen somehow. Using one is a minefeild. opening 2 things at once is usually enough to kill it, something with 2 Xeons shouldn't feel like a core 2 duo. They also get more and more unresponsive over the day, and have really stupid issues (programs cling to sound devices, so if you want to swap audio hardware you have to close everything, swap in the system settings (on the Windows version you can just choose anything connected) then open again (though sometimes even then you can't, you have to restart the POS).
Have used it, used it for a while, was annoying, stopped using it. It still feels like a beta, not a polished finished product. As i said the new stuff is fluff I don't care for and there's no reason for 99.999% of people to sidegrade to it. Even with classic shell you gain nothing, as the OS doesn't really have anything useful new.
Ad supported software is adware. It's a rehash of all the ads that appeared on Xbox live, another paid for service.
The "store" isn't a good idea to use, as you don't own anything on it, and they may remote wipe your data and remove your subscriptions for no reason (read the ToS), it's a huge step backwards. Windows doesn't need a walled garden. Still, it has 0 things i'd want, so i wouldn't be using it anyway.
heatlesssun
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The "store" isn't a good idea to use, as you don't own anything on it, and they may remote wipe your data and remove your subscriptions for no reason (read the ToS), it's a huge step backwards. Windows doesn't need a walled garden. Still, it has 0 things i'd want, so i wouldn't be using it anyway.
This is not different from iOS and that app store is booming and people love it.
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MrGuvernment
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didnt windows 7 sales kick the crap out of XP and Vista sales i recall....
the only reason XP is still around is because of people who wont buy a new system and dont know anything other than XP.
DeathPrincess
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Thats completely unrelated, iOS is a phone thing (anyway, It's more like Windows Mobile, which isn't very popular
). Consumers do not need and will in no way benefit from a locked down junk filled walled garden where there wasn't one before. Some phones where there is no other choice and it has always been that way means it's not even comparable.
heatlesssun
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Thats completely unrelated, iOS is a phone thing (anyway, It's more like Windows Mobile, which isn't very popular
Consumers do not need and will in no way benefit from a locked down junk filled walled garden where there wasn't one before. Some phones where there is no other choice and it has always been that way means it's not even comparable.
Yes they do because not all software comes to desktops anymore.
Thats completely unrelated, iOS is a phone thing (anyway, It's more like Windows Mobile, which isn't very popular
Consumers do not need and will in no way benefit from a locked down junk filled walled garden where there wasn't one before. Some phones where there is no other choice and it has always been that way means it's not even comparable.
Not really true. The benefit can come from the fact that users can get applications that are forced to follow rules and guidelines. Metro apps are sandboxed, their installer and uninstaller can't fail and leave junk and possibly unstable system configs. They can't infect the system. I believe they must sleep and not use CPU when the user is not using them or in the start screen looking at their live tile (at least in my usage, I see all the metro apps I have installed using 0% cpu and DPC Latency doesn't seem to be affected by how many metro apps you run.) This means the user is free to download any and all metro apps and never have to worry about their system becoming screwed up or slowed down. In my mind this is a huge benefit, as I am constantly wary of installing things I think I would like because I don't trust them to not either purposefully or accidently trash/slow the system, with metro apps there is no more worry. Even as a techie that can diagnose most problems, I find this great, it will probably greatly improve productivity to have apps that literally can't trash the system, versus just having apps that can do anything they want, and even if they're restricted to standard user accounts they can still do a lot of damage.
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DeathPrincess
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Such as what exactly? Junk games and stuff done by websites?
Not really true. Other "app stores" have "rules and guidelines", but it really means nothing in the real world, it doesn't mean they test everything, it just gives them a way to remove content later on. You can get malware off both the major phone application stores. sandboxed doesn't mean a whole lot of anything, any system can crash, any system can come unresponsive. IE is sandboxed. Java is sandboxed. VMs are sandboxed. Phones are sandboxed. Loads of stuff is sandboxed. It's not a magic pill, stuff can and will get out. There will be stuff that trashes the system, there will be stuff which causes unresponsiveness. Though, the only program thats ever caused problems under 7 was a single game alpha (because it wouldn't release GPU Vram after closing, opening it multiple times caused multiple instances, which made GPU based stuff to slow until a restart). The point is, with any system, there is going to be problems, however much you lock things down. Metro is not a licence to install anything and everything and be totally carefree. It uses little CPU because they are phone applications, made to run on low level arm processors. The browser running this is using "0%" CPU too.
The sleep in background thing is a PITA too, it kind of ignores all the progress made in OSes, like dual cores and more ram. But also lots of programs need to do stuff in the background, like media players or system tools. Having a media player stop when you check a webpage is pretty much completely useless.
You should also know that any crap you buy from it, isn't yours. You are renting software, and your renting can be revoked at any time (for "any or no reason"). Or the deveoper can be banned form the store (for no reason) and your application remote wiped (for no reason). You also should constantly backup data in your Metro applications, as the data is remotely deletable by Microsoft (for no reason).
Such as what exactly? Junk games and stuff done by websites?
Not really true. Other "app stores" have "rules and guidelines", but it really means nothing in the real world, it doesn't mean they test everything, it just gives them a way to remove content later on. You can get malware off both the major phone application stores. sandboxed doesn't mean a whole lot of anything, any system can crash, any system can come unresponsive. IE is sandboxed. Java is sandboxed. VMs are sandboxed. Phones are sandboxed. Loads of stuff is sandboxed. It's not a magic pill, stuff can and will get out. There will be stuff that trashes the system, there will be stuff which causes unresponsiveness.
Ok, yes, theoretically any sandbox can be broken, but I would rather try a program that is sandboxed in Windows 8 appcontainer, than one that is not. It's like arguing about keeping money under your mattress, and someone says "keeping it in a vault is safer" to which you reply "vaults can be cracked." (ignoring the insurance angle)
I don't think that's why. I have apps that I replaced metro apps with, such as an email checker, that used (very slight) amounts of CPU and accessed the disk randomly, and increased DPC latency and latency spikes. The metro email app gives me the notifications I want when I get a new email with absolutely no performance impact I can detect despite thorough inspection. I mean, it's a small amount for this one program, but it adds up and if you can get a lot of your apps/widgets in metro, you could see a big difference.
Nothing stops you from using the non-metro versions of apps that you want running all the time. It's about the right tool for the job, for a safe low impact email checker, a metro email client is good, if you want music constantly playing, a desktop media player should be your choice. The good thing about Windows 8, is that you get to choose between both.
Data should be backed up anyway in case of a hardware failure. Anyways, people may be paranoid of MS but they've never given me a reason to not trust them. If they wipe something from the app store in the future, I'm assuming it would be for a good reason. MS has nothing to gain by wiping things for "no reason", and everything to lose. MS is not a tyrannical government, unhappy customers would be their downfall.
heatlesssun
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Such as what exactly? Junk games and stuff done by websites?
Sure, and again a lot of that stuff is WAY more popular than anything on desktops these days.
Hasn't Microsoft put in backdoors for the FBI and NYPD and NSA and CIA and WTF so the government can snoop on you? Or is that all rumor and conjecture?
(Srs... I can't keep the ridiculous stuff separate from the real stuff anymore. It all seems to blend together.)
There is no known instance of this. In fact, it is illegal, and also a bad idea as hackers would find it and use it. It's hard for non-hackers to imagine, but Windows is probably the most scrutinized piece of software on the planet, and lack of source means little to hackers who know machine code like the back of their hand usually. There is a source of confusion on the subject because of something called NSAKEY, the name alone fueled conspiracy theories for years after it was found in a Windows debug symbols file. But it was thoroughly analyzed and found to only be so the NSA can add encryption algorithms to Windows, because this is usually restricted to MS approved algorithms but MS is not cleared to see classified NSA encryption algorithms. You need Admin access to do this though, so it's not any kind of backdoor since if you have Admin that would be the most useless way to exploit the machine. Besides any big complex code base has enough bugs in it that there is no need to add backdoors (and that goes for every OS, windows, Linux, Mac OS X, etc.) Governments typically buy their exploits from 3rd parties that analyze the code base and find bugs as a hacker would, except they're well funded and highly organized, so they're plenty good as a source for such things.
Supercharged_Z06
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It's not "if" Win 8 fails, but when. I give it 3-4 months.
My 1st prediction: Win 8 will fail miserably. Worse than Vista. People buying new machines will all downgrade to Win 7. Folks will not want a tablet i-face on their desktops and notebooks.
2nd predication: Microsoft's Surface will also be a flop. The hardware will be too expensive and not offer anything really new as to form/function over existing tablets.
Will be interesting to check in on these predictions 6 months from now...
My 1st prediction: Win 8 will fail miserably. Worse than Vista. People buying new machines will all downgrade to Win 7. Folks will not want a tablet i-face on their desktops and notebooks.
2nd predication: Microsoft's Surface will also be a flop. The hardware will be too expensive and not offer anything really new as to form/function over existing tablets.
Will be interesting to check in on these predictions 6 months from now...
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I'm guessing due to overwhelming customer complaints the start menu will return by SP1 for Win8 if anyone is still using it on the PC. When this starts shipping and non-hardcore PC users get this, MS is going to get lit up with complaints and requests to have Windows 7. Mark my words on this. With any luck they yank the whole metro bullshit altogether, I don't see that happening but I do them give allowing users to choose between desktop and metro with a start menu. Obviously classicshell and start8 already do that but your typical PC "grandma / grandpa" types aren't savvy enough to find them nor will they be savvy or patient enough to deal with metro.
Needs a "wait for Windows 9 and hope it's more of an improvement" option. The only "keep using Windows 7" option is kind of rigid.
This exactly.
I have seen enough to know that I can skip Win8 and hope for a better future.
Supercharged_Z06
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Agreed - To me it seems that MS Windows 8 has been geared/developed just for Surface from day one. It should never have been called Windows 8 and staged as a successor to Windows 7. They should have called it something else like "Clean Touch" and leveraged it solely as an adjunct OS for the Surface and for Windows phones. They then could have provided a reasonably priced update for Windows 7 ($19.95) that brings in more capability and/or interoperability between the two OS ecospheres for those that desire it. The "one size fits all" solution when it comes to an OS for desktops, laptops, tablets and phones just doesn't work. The form factors, hardware capabilities, inputs, etc. are all just too dissimilar and varied to make it all work. (It works for Apple because they control the hardware - MS doesn't, and I don't want them to!)
DeathPrincess
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Copies of "desktop" Windows 7 outsold every junk tablet/"smartphone" many many times over (at least 100 to 1). So how exactly do you come to that conclusion? Or are you comparing junk freeware to $50 AAA games?
bigdogchris
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Not if, when ...
heatlesssun
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Copies of "desktop" Windows 7 outsold every junk tablet/"smartphone" many many times over (at least 100 to 1). So how exactly do you come to that conclusion? Or are you comparing junk freeware to $50 AAA games?
Words with Friends, Instagram, Angry Birds, etc. Stuff that's WAY more popular than pretty anything on desktops these days that started on mobile.
heatlesssun
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Define failure or success for Windows 8. It's going to sell hundreds of millions of copies, more than anything besides phones.
bigdogchris
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Of course it's going to as it comes preinstalled on PC's. Using the argument you've just exampled for us is like when Nintendo says it sold 50 Million copies of Wii Sports, becoming the highest selling video game ever, however 49 Million of which were packaged with the console and you had no option to buy without.
Failure for me is defined as public perception, as that is all that really matters in the eyes of the general public, right?
It's just too bad that a great OS is going to be hidden behind a "Metro Screen of Death", the new BSoD.
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Public reception? Hah, you must LOVE McDonalds, Beiber, and Twilight. Seriously though, I've never been one for popularity contests, I just use the best tool for the job. Efficiency wise, I find Windows 8 to win, and that's what I care about. Everybody on the planet can hate brushing their teeth, I'm not going to stop because of that. Windows 8 will sale, because 98% of consumers get Windows with a new PC. If the only argument they have is that everybody else hates it, well I'd say there's nothing wrong with it.
dr.stevil
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I'm sticking with Windows 7 regardless of Windows 8's success (or lack of). Just way too many things about it put me off. That actually makes me a little sad considering I've been using Microsoft products since the early days of DOS, but theres nothing about Windows 8 that appeals to me, except the backend... which I can take or leave it, honestly.
MacOS and Linux aren't viable options right now, but with Steam on Mac and it soon heading to Linux (providing game developers release titles on those platforms as well), I might very well switch to one sometime in the future.
MacOS and Linux aren't viable options right now, but with Steam on Mac and it soon heading to Linux (providing game developers release titles on those platforms as well), I might very well switch to one sometime in the future.
dr.stevil
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Apple has two different OS's... MacOS for the desktops/laptops and iOS for the iPhone, iPad, iPod, etc
This is what MS should of done. They updated the latest version of their Desktop OS to add features and functionality that iOS has, to make the user experience a little more unified and seamless (which CAN be turned off), but were smart enough not to try shoe-horning a desktop OS on a mobile device and vice versa.
MS should of been taking notes.
..and it should be kept there.
Do we really need Words with Friends or Angry Birds on the Microsoft Store? Fuck no. This is exactly my point the mobile stuff doesn't need to flow over onto the desktop. So these morons that bring me their PC to fix will have a metro screen filled with 1500 retarded little shit games like cut the rope and angry birds... its like having a $1500 phone with all this useless shit on it. top it off with the stellar colored block interface...I'll puke a little every time I have to fix one..
Don't bring this garbage to the PC! I can only see the douchey two popped collar Jersey shore losers digging metro and all these useless apps on the app store. don't bring these morons back to the PC, leave them be with their iPhones. Let Apple deal with these morons...
Monkey God
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I will stick with W7 until they release something better. W8 is not sufficiently "better" to motivate me to upgrade.
Exactly - force feeding it on every new OEM PC doesn't equate "sales". Especially when MS will be lit up with people wanting to go back to Windows 7 on their "new" PC.
As others said, define "Fail". Windows 8 will succeed on the consumer level for 1 reason, only. That there isn't another option. At some point all new consumer PC's will all have Windows 8 on them. MS will halt the sale of Win 7 Home, and that'll be the end of that. But in the age of declining computer sales, how much of an impact will that have?
In the corporate world it'll be a different story, and I'm undecided on which I think will happen. Either coprorations/governments will skip Windows 8 all together, like most did with Vista, and adopt an "every other version" scheme or the "stupid proof" mentality/look of Metro will be lockable and fuctional enough to be attractive. My personal bet is the former as the coordinated roll-out of a new OS is a budgetary task on large scales.
On the tablet side of things, it'll fail. The pre-release hardware pricepoint alone is justification. With the iPad as the incumbent, you can't bring a new toy to market and expect to sell with out an price advantage to drive initial sales and market share gains. That's marketing 101. Pioneering a niche market is one thing as Apple did with the iPad. They set the bar for user expectations and functionality. Breaking into a niche market with a zombie fanboi-ish userbase without a significant price advantage is suicide.
In the corporate world it'll be a different story, and I'm undecided on which I think will happen. Either coprorations/governments will skip Windows 8 all together, like most did with Vista, and adopt an "every other version" scheme or the "stupid proof" mentality/look of Metro will be lockable and fuctional enough to be attractive. My personal bet is the former as the coordinated roll-out of a new OS is a budgetary task on large scales.
On the tablet side of things, it'll fail. The pre-release hardware pricepoint alone is justification. With the iPad as the incumbent, you can't bring a new toy to market and expect to sell with out an price advantage to drive initial sales and market share gains. That's marketing 101. Pioneering a niche market is one thing as Apple did with the iPad. They set the bar for user expectations and functionality. Breaking into a niche market with a zombie fanboi-ish userbase without a significant price advantage is suicide.
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TechLarry
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Needs a "wait for Windows 9 and hope it's more of an improvement" option. The only "keep using Windows 7" option is kind of rigid.
MS will never back off Metro. It really doesn't give a shit about what it's customers want.
It will just put an EOL on Windows 7, and once it passes,there won't be any choice.
It has that kind of power, which is sad.
They simply aren't going to put back in code they intentionally ripped out.