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Carmack: Doom 4 to Support Head-Tracking VR Tech

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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May 9, 2000
Messages
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If you are a fan of Virtual Reality head mounted displays for game playing, you are about to get some good news from John Carmack. We brought you the article on the Kickstarter project for the Oculus Rift along with a review of the prototype model and now you will have a new game to fully utilize its capabilities.

"I'm excited for once Doom 3 ships, and gets out there, I'll put all this stuff into the Doom 4 platform, which will be nice to take our current top-of-the-line stuff and have that in virtual reality," Carmack said. "I'm looking forward to doing that."
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did anyone try these in person somwhere? any good? sounds exciting but it'd be good to hear something first hand, not all the marketing reports
 
This really looks amazing. They might just get Virtual reality right this time.
 
I'm going to call it. Id is going to spend way too much time and resources developing the virtual reality and the game is going to suffer for it.
 
D_Bo said:
I'm going to call it. Id is going to spend way too much time and resources developing the virtual reality and the game is going to suffer for it.
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Not really. Thy're pretty much going to have it hammered out with Doom 3 BFG.
 
Master_of_Sparks said:
Not really. Thy're pretty much going to have it hammered out with Doom 3 BFG.
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From what I have read Carmack already had some sort of VR headset in parallel development with Doom 3 BFG already. He demoed this new Oculus VR prototype and........went nuts I guess. So did Gabe Newell it turns out.

In short, this will not slow the development of Doom 3. My opinion anyway.
 
Straight from the Kickstarter page....

Will the Oculus Rift developer kit work with my Xbox 360 or PS3?

Not yet. The Kickstarter developer kit will be PC-only. We hope to make the headset compatible with major consoles and all other platforms, including mobile, and as soon as possible.
Last updated: Thursday Aug 2, 3:56am EDT

Hornet said:
I thought that Rift thing will be made for PC and not the consoles :confused:
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MajorDomo said:
Straight from the Kickstarter page....

Will the Oculus Rift developer kit work with my Xbox 360 or PS3?

Not yet. The Kickstarter developer kit will be PC-only. We hope to make the headset compatible with major consoles and all other platforms, including mobile, and as soon as possible.
Last updated: Thursday Aug 2, 3:56am EDT
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I see. But surely its not x360 exclusive.
 
Hornet said:
I see. But surely its not x360 exclusive.
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Dude seriously?

Its for PC only for right now...its built for PC its going to be on PC it only works on PC.

Consoles it seems MIGHT come later.

Sheesh...
 
Yea if you guys read that article right here, it would of answered all of your console exclusive questions right there...

"2) Rendering a game in stereoscopic 3D means you are effectively rendering the game twice, once for each eye, dropping your FPS by as much as half. In addition, HMDs need a consistently high refresh rate, even occasional drops greatly reduce the quality of the experience. Hypothetically, if you wanted to push a game into dual 1080p HMD, you would need a computer capable of rendering the game in 2D and never dropping below 120fps. There are very few people out there with rigs that capable, and we need the developer kit to be accessible to all developers, not just the ones with $6,000 liquid nitrogen cooled screamers."

Now it's pretty safe to say that the Xbox 720 and the PS4 isn't gonna have even a third of the necessary power (and I'm being generous in that estimate there) to be able to drive the Oculus headset. Let alone the HDMI cables required to run them either. So It's ok lads, your PC pride is still intact, for now.....
 
JoeUser said:
Dude seriously?

Its for PC only for right now...its built for PC its going to be on PC it only works on PC.

Consoles it seems MIGHT come later.

Sheesh...
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Um, I was originally quoting Master of Spark who said "360 exclusive".
 
So, since 3d is finally failing .... again... big surprise. They are going to try and push this nonsense again. Ugh, why can't developers just focus on producing quality games instead of gimmicks. Pass on wearing anything on my head.
 
D_Bo said:
I'm going to call it. Id is going to spend way too much time and resources developing the virtual reality and the game is going to suffer for it.
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I don't think it'll be a big deal. They can recycle and dress up an existing game engine and then tack the ability to accept head tracking independently of body movement which was done already using the keyboard in the Mechwarrior games. There's probably like a few days of actual work and testing involved for them to shovel in and get a checkbox for the feature.

JoeUser said:
Dude seriously?

Its for PC only for right now...its built for PC its going to be on PC it only works on PC.

Consoles it seems MIGHT come later.

Sheesh...
Click to expand...

PC only is a dumb move. They're gonna sell to the very small number of people who game on a PC and the even smaller number who have the hardware needed to make it work on new releases. That'll probably be okay until a new generation of consoles comes out and the next set of AAA ported games raises system requirements.

Dekoth-E- said:
So, since 3d is finally failing .... again... big surprise. They are going to try and push this nonsense again. Ugh, why can't developers just focus on producing quality games instead of gimmicks. Pass on wearing anything on my head.
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It's totally expected. We go for a few years without anyone wasting their time with it. Then, after enough investors who tried it and lost money have retired or died, a new generation of suckers buys into 3D. It takes them a failure there and a failure in VR junk to figure out both are unprofitable niche markets.

Al's quote shows how out of touch with reality they are. VR integration for mobile phones? Wearing a box over my eyes will be great for using my phone to make a call or check an e-mail. Nothing's like being immersed in your text messages.
 
SkribbelKat said:
PC only is a dumb move.
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The very nature of this technology requires that games run at 120fps. Consoles can barely run games at 60fps, and most console games are only 30fps. In the year 2012, the 360 and PS3 are pretty much fossils, time to let them die.

They're gonna sell to the very small number of people who game on a PC[/QUOTE]

That must explain why Blizzard and Valve are almost bankrupt... oh wait.
 
SkribbelKat said:
PC only is a dumb move.
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No, it's an excellent move. PC has needed something to get the devs excited about the platform. If it gets Gabe, Carmack, and all the top brass at the gaming companies excited that means more focus on the PC. If Occulus falls flat, it still means the PC gets some attention from the devs that it's been needing for a long time now.... or would you prefer every major PC game in the future launching the way RAGE did? :rolleyes:
 
Dekoth-E- said:
So, since 3d is finally failing .... again... big surprise. They are going to try and push this nonsense again. Ugh, why can't developers just focus on producing quality games instead of gimmicks. Pass on wearing anything on my head.
Click to expand...

It's not quite a gimmick. You should listen to Carmack's 3 hour keynote talk from QuakeCon 2012.

Basically we're approaching the end of what can be done graphically with current hardware. We can already render scenes with perfect real world graphics, and if done correctly you won't even be able to tell if it's real or not.

Carmack mentioned that while it's not possible to do this in real time yet, does it even matter? Graphics are already really good now. In the end we're limited to a flat 2D LCD display unless something big changes.

VR will be that change. It will change how we interact with the game (head tracking movement instead of the mouse) and how we perceive the game's output.

I'd rather have super life like, no delay flawless VR with current generation graphics or worse instead of perfect real time life-like rendering on a garbage LCD.
 
Phoenix333 said:
No, it's an excellent move. PC has needed something to get the devs excited about the platform. If it gets Gabe, Carmack, and all the top brass at the gaming companies excited that means more focus on the PC. If Occulus falls flat, it still means the PC gets some attention from the devs that it's been needing for a long time now.... or would you prefer every major PC game in the future launching the way RAGE did? :rolleyes:
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It's not the developers that need to get excited. They're all just employees. Publishers and investors who hold the purse strings are the ones that make decisions and they get excited about large volume sales. The PC game market is too small and too expensive from a support and patching standpoint to get much more than an apathetic shrug.
 
ShoeLace said:
It's not quite a gimmick. You should listen to Carmack's 3 hour keynote talk from QuakeCon 2012.

Basically we're approaching the end of what can be done graphically with current hardware. We can already render scenes with perfect real world graphics, and if done correctly you won't even be able to tell if it's real or not.

Carmack mentioned that while it's not possible to do this in real time yet, does it even matter? Graphics are already really good now. In the end we're limited to a flat 2D LCD display unless something big changes.

VR will be that change. It will change how we interact with the game (head tracking movement instead of the mouse) and how we perceive the game's output.

I'd rather have super life like, no delay flawless VR with current generation graphics or worse instead of perfect real time life-like rendering on a garbage LCD.
Click to expand...

This is almost word for word what people were saying in the late 1980s and 1990s about VR technology. Each time around, it'll be due to technological advancements made in the next year or three that'll revolutionize and change everything, making it so close to the real world that you can't tell the difference. It's the same song and the same dance with a different generation of people who haven't seen it all come and go before (or weren't paying attention last time).
 
SkribbelKat said:
This is almost word for word what people were saying in the late 1980s and 1990s about VR technology. Each time around, it'll be due to technological advancements made in the next year or three that'll revolutionize and change everything, making it so close to the real world that you can't tell the difference. It's the same song and the same dance with a different generation of people who haven't seen it all come and go before (or weren't paying attention last time).
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No, you need to watch his keynote speech from QuakeCon. It's here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_xhuHTMspY

I don't know when the VR part starts exactly (he spends a long time talking about tho).

He's not trying to make real world perfect VR in the near future or for Doom 4. That is a long ways off. He knows exactly how to get VR to work really well though, and the only limitations right now are all fixable in very near future.

Displays outside of consumer grade are good enough right now to allow Carmack to render frames in less than 20ms which is the cut off time to make it seem like VR is in real time without noticeable lag (taken from the video, not making up quotes!).

I tend to trust Carmack on these things, as he spent months and a lot of his own money to tinker with this stuff recently (all explained in the key notes). He seems overly excited and optimistic about the near future and VR being viable and a very good experience.
 
SkribbelKat said:
The PC game market is too small and too expensive from a support and patching standpoint to get much more than an apathetic shrug.
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So that's why companies are still making games for the PC, and why Valve is rolling in dough. Gotcha. ;)
 
Is Doom 4 going to be "even better" than Rage? In that case count me out.
 
SkribbelKat said:
This is almost word for word what people were saying in the late 1980s and 1990s about VR technology. Each time around, it'll be due to technological advancements made in the next year or three that'll revolutionize and change everything, making it so close to the real world that you can't tell the difference. It's the same song and the same dance with a different generation of people who haven't seen it all come and go before (or weren't paying attention last time).
Click to expand...

The problem was back then they were all full of shit, or incredibly naive. I still remember the first time I tried VR and was like "this sucks". I admired the attempt, but knew it stood no viable chance at success. The graphics were horrible, the latency intolerable, and the FOV annoying. The games themselves were also wholly uninspired and meant as nothing more than demos for the hardware.

Supposedly this VR is different. They have acknowledges all of VR's shortcomings and claim to have solved them all. I'm still a skeptic, and wont invest until I get my hands on one or see a plethora of reviews stating that it "actually works". No bezel visibility, full peripheral encompassment, no latency, etc. They seem to be trying to do it right this time, taking real games and throwing in support for VR, rather than taking VR and throwing games at it.

The Oculus kid has over a million bucks now, time to get a real prototype up and not this shoebox crap.
 
Quix said:
Is Doom 4 going to be "even better" than Rage? In that case count me out.
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Are people even bothering to watch the video?

He said Rage is an entirely different genre from the Doom franchise, and not to expect any of its gameplay to leak over. "Doom is about demons and shotguns"
 
ShoeLace said:
No, you need to watch his keynote speech from QuakeCon. It's here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_xhuHTMspY

I don't know when the VR part starts exactly (he spends a long time talking about tho).

He's not trying to make real world perfect VR in the near future or for Doom 4. That is a long ways off. He knows exactly how to get VR to work really well though, and the only limitations right now are all fixable in very near future.

Displays outside of consumer grade are good enough right now to allow Carmack to render frames in less than 20ms which is the cut off time to make it seem like VR is in real time without noticeable lag (taken from the video, not making up quotes!).

I tend to trust Carmack on these things, as he spent months and a lot of his own money to tinker with this stuff recently (all explained in the key notes). He seems overly excited and optimistic about the near future and VR being viable and a very good experience.
Click to expand...

Carmack has a history of being a lot of hype and not much delivery. He's getting additional press time for an upcoming game thanks to this so he has a heavy self-interest in promoting it as important even though it probably won't really make more than a little ripple in an awfully big ocean and won't compensate for the uninspired, shoot-everything-that-moves FPS formula that hasn't changed at all in over 20 years.

Phoenix333 said:
So that's why companies are still making games for the PC, and why Valve is rolling in dough. Gotcha. ;)
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Gross profit isn't bad, actual revenue isn't anything to be amazed about.

McFry said:
The problem was back then they were all full of shit, or incredibly naive. I still remember the first time I tried VR and was like "this sucks". I admired the attempt, but knew it stood no viable chance at success. The graphics were horrible, the latency intolerable, and the FOV annoying. The games themselves were also wholly uninspired and meant as nothing more than demos for the hardware.

Supposedly this VR is different. They have acknowledges all of VR's shortcomings and claim to have solved them all. I'm still a skeptic, and wont invest until I get my hands on one or see a plethora of reviews stating that it "actually works". No bezel visibility, full peripheral encompassment, no latency, etc. They seem to be trying to do it right this time, taking real games and throwing in support for VR, rather than taking VR and throwing games at it.

The Oculus kid has over a million bucks now, time to get a real prototype up and not this shoebox crap.
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Actually, some of the games were from Id and were mainstream/popular back in the VFX days. Yeah, we can put more polygons on a screen and have higher resolution textures, HDR, bloom, and bump-mapping, but immersion that catches the attention of a mainstream audience? I dunno. Ultimately, it has the same show-stopping problem that 3D television had which is having to wear something that makes it annoying to transition to another task. Add hefty hardware requirements and the fact that laptops are the primary computing device and you end up with a very small potential market. Among those rarified desktop-equipped gamers, the people who will forgoe some other expense to buy VR gear with questionable longevity and you end up with not so many interested parties. It's a perfect set of conditions for a market flop which is probably why it's on Kickstarter and lacks a corporate sponsor.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Carmack has a history of being a lot of hype and not much delivery. He's getting additional press time for an upcoming game thanks to this so he has a heavy self-interest in promoting it as important even though it probably won't really make more than a little ripple in an awfully big ocean and won't compensate for the uninspired, shoot-everything-that-moves FPS formula that hasn't changed at all in over 20 years.
Click to expand...

I don't think "not much delivery" is fair. I was really into quake 2 and quake 3. I think Q3 delivered at god-like levels. Huge following, massive amounts of $ thrown into tournaments (multi-millions back in a time when gaming wasn't really main stream), lived in its prime for multiple years as a competitive FPS platform and to this day still has some of the best network code released in any game on any platform from any genre.

He also delivered multiple generations of portable game engines for third party studios which still get used to this day.

Maybe recently they failed to deliver on Rage, I'm not sure. I haven't really followed id since the quake 3 days. I think he's getting a lot of press (good and bad) because of some statements he said in the key notes.

I don't blame Carmack for a full game failure because he's probably not the guy in charge of game play and other mechanics that designate whether or not a game is fun. He's the guy making sure the game engine is flexible and is robust enough to support demanding art and other content.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Actually, some of the games were from Id and were mainstream/popular back in the VFX days. Yeah, we can put more polygons on a screen and have higher resolution textures, HDR, bloom, and bump-mapping, but immersion that catches the attention of a mainstream audience? I dunno. Ultimately, it has the same show-stopping problem that 3D television had which is having to wear something that makes it annoying to transition to another task. Add hefty hardware requirements and the fact that laptops are the primary computing device and you end up with a very small potential market. Among those rarified desktop-equipped gamers, the people who will forgoe some other expense to buy VR gear with questionable longevity and you end up with not so many interested parties. It's a perfect set of conditions for a market flop which is probably why it's on Kickstarter and lacks a corporate sponsor.
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Yeah, I dont expect VR to become the next API, whereby everybody is using it. I think it will always be that little niche product that manages to stay afloat from loyal fans who make purchases/upgrades. It'll be like kinect, certainly not required, and only used for particular games, but fun when you find one that uses it well. The good thing is the inventor seems passionate about just seeing it built. He's not looking at it through the lens and Apple exec, finding how best to exploit it, milk it, and pillage us for monies. He genuinely wants to see people enjoy VR and is striving to make it as best as it can be made.
 
So my question is, is Doom 4 going to "break the mold" and have head-based freelook? I can't see this working any other way.
 
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