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There's nothing wrong with Windows 7. If it's not broke; don't fix it...
A simple solution would be for Microsoft to make Metro UI an option, not a feature.
Windows 7 start menu is step backwards from WinXP in terms of accessability.
It was pretty easy and fast to access all your program related links in WinXP.
And then Win7 had all that compacted into a single list that you have to scroll back and forth in.
It was so bad they had to put in a search function just so you don't have to use the menu.
Atleast Win8's start menu/screen lets you organize it.
Windows 7 start menu is step backwards from WinXP in terms of accessability.
It was pretty easy and fast to access all your program related links in WinXP.
And then Win7 had all that compacted into a single list that you have to scroll back and forth in.
It was so bad they had to put in a search function just so you don't have to use the menu.
Atleast Win8's start menu/screen lets you organize it.
Windows 7 start menu is step backwards from WinXP in terms of accessability.
...
It was so bad they had to put in a search function just so you don't have to use the menu.
Atleast Win8's start menu/screen lets you organize it.
I think [Windows 8 is] gonna be a great operating system
What the fuck?Yer the Metro UI is just one huge fail, Windows 7 FTW
If one is wading through the menus frequently they are not using the Start menu as MS intended. If it's more than two clicks away and one uses it more than once a week it should be pinned to the Start menu or taskbar to begin with.
I think de-cascading the menus was MS's subtle hint to utilize the "Pin to" options as opposed to a screen full of application names every time one wanted to open something.
As someone that actually uses his pc for work, i use a lot of applications and utilities. I currently have 13 applications pinned to my taskbar. Would probably be more if i had the space.
I love the new taskbar, especially how you can easily pin/unpin applications as needed, and consider it a great improvement productivity wise, but it doesn't change the fact that the Win7 start menu is harder to navigate than the WinXP one. A Task Bar is not a Start Menu.
Point is, Win8's Start Menu/Metro is less cluttered and easier to organize than Win7's while maintaining the same functionalities. I can throw the taskbar comment back at you and say that if you don't like navigating Metro, then you shouldn't have any problem simply pinning them to the task bar. As you guys keep pointing out, you guys don't use the Start Menu anyway, so what's the problem?
EDIT: Forgot to add. No matter how you organize your start menu in Win7, you are rarely 2 clicks away from your application. Because of the list nature of the Win7 start menu, you spend most of your time scrolling through the list items and expanding folders and then reading each item before clicking. Any time you expand a folder, the position of the items shifts and you end up scrolling through it again. In WinXP, there's no scrolling involved, you click the start menu once, move the mouse to a point on the screen you've already memorized and the sub menus will open along the way.
Reading these threads you'd think that Windows 8 is ONLY Metro or that it is identical to Windows 7 except for the changes to the Start Button and the Start Menu. The discussion never gets around to the other new features in Windows 8, such as Storage Spaces, or File Recovery or Smart Screen or the changes to Windows Explorer.
Does anyone have anything to say about Windows 8 that's not about Metro or the Start Button?
I like the improvements that Win8 is making behind the scenes and I would love to have them. I refuse to use Metro UI.
It's like taking a nice big juicy steak. That steak is all the memory, code and etc improvements in Win8 that everyone (including me) wants and are getting giddy over.
Now imagine taking that big juicy steak and smearing it with dog shit. That dog shit is Metro UI.
What M$ is telling me is that if I want the big juicy steak I have to eat though the dog shit. I don't want the steak that bad.
I like the improvements that Win8 is making behind the scenes and I would love to have them. I refuse to use Metro UI.
It's like taking a nice big juicy steak. That steak is all the memory, code and etc improvements in Win8 that everyone (including me) wants and are getting giddy over.
Now imagine taking that big juicy steak and smearing it with dog shit. That dog shit is Metro UI.
What M$ is telling me is that if I want the big juicy steak I have to eat though the dog shit. I don't want the steak that bad.
I like the improvements that Win8 is making behind the scenes and I would love to have them. I refuse to use Metro UI.
It's like taking a nice big juicy steak. That steak is all the memory, code and etc improvements in Win8 that everyone (including me) wants and are getting giddy over.
Now imagine taking that big juicy steak and smearing it with dog shit. That dog shit is Metro UI.
What M$ is telling me is that if I want the big juicy steak I have to eat though the dog shit. I don't want the steak that bad. .
Reading these threads you'd think that Windows 8 is ONLY Metro or that it is identical to Windows 7 except for the changes to the Start Button and the Start Menu. The discussion never gets around to the other new features in Windows 8, such as Storage Spaces, or File Recovery or Smart Screen or the changes to Windows Explorer.
Does anyone have anything to say about Windows 8 that's not about Metro or the Start Button?
Your argument still holds no water. If you are browsing through the menus, you are wasting time when you can just use the search. I don't browse the menus, period. It takes too long. So if you want to be less efficient with the menu structure of XP, then go for it. Microsoft added tools to make it easier in windows 7, you just aren't using them and crying that you can't do it the same old way you have memorized.
The problem is, to enjoy those features you have to deal with the shit pile that is Metro.
Metro has no business on a desktop PC with a mouse and keyboard imho.
Tablet? Sure. Phone? Sure. Desktop PC? Fuck no.
Press start button, click on the application icon right on your screen. Your left hand is still on the keyboard, your right hand never leaves the mouse.
How to use the Start 'Menu' on Windows 8
#1 Press window button
#2 Click on the icon right in front of you, who's layout you organized yourself.
On Win7, to use the search function, you have to let go of the mouse and align your hands before typing. If you keep your hands on the mouse, you waste even more time scrolling through the list. That's where the Win7 start menu failed and why we didn't like it when we moved from the classic start menu.
Basic practice when using any GUI is to avoid constantly alternating between the mouse and keyboard. If your hand is on the mouse, it stays on the mouse. If it's on the keyboard, it stays on the keyboard. This has been our practice at work for a very long time. That's why we know both keyboard shortcuts and mouse gestures. If we need to do something while we're on the keyboard, we use the keyboard to do it. If we're using the KB/M combo, we use the mouse gestures.
If i'm in the middle of coding, i actually alternate between documents, turn pages, switch monitors, etc. from the keyboard instead of reaching for the mouse. Likewise, when i'm the mouse, i keep one hand on the mouse, and the other on the keyboard to handle the shortcuts and the hand never leaves the mouse. It's basic practice when you're navigating around any GUI.
Efficiency? Dude, part of our training when i was starting out was to constantly find way to shave off steps and speed up anything we do on the desk. That means not only learning the shortcuts and gestures of the application, but how our hands move on the physical desktop as well.
Do we really need another thread about this?What do you all think of windows 8 so far on the Beta stage. I think it's gonna be a great operating system
What do you all think of windows 8 so far on the Beta stage. I think it's gonna be a great operating system
On Win7, to use the search function, you have to let go of the mouse and align your hands before typing. If you keep your hands on the mouse, you waste even more time scrolling through the list. That's where the Win7 start menu failed and why we didn't like it when we moved from the classic start menu.
Basic practice when using any GUI is to avoid constantly alternating between the mouse and keyboard. If your hand is on the mouse, it stays on the mouse. If it's on the keyboard, it stays on the keyboard. This has been our practice at work for a very long time. That's why we know both keyboard shortcuts and mouse gestures. If we need to do something while we're on the keyboard, we use the keyboard to do it. If we're using the KB/M combo, we use the mouse gestures.
If i'm in the middle of coding, i actually alternate between documents, turn pages, switch monitors, etc. from the keyboard instead of reaching for the mouse. Likewise, when i'm the mouse, i keep one hand on the mouse, and the other on the keyboard to handle the shortcuts and the hand never leaves the mouse. It's basic practice when you're navigating around any GUI.
Efficiency? Dude, part of our training when i was starting out was to constantly find way to shave off steps and speed up anything we do on the desk. That means not only learning the shortcuts and gestures of the application, but how our hands move on the physical desktop as well.
For browsing through installed programs, yes, the XP Classic-style menus were better. You should always use search to launch programs for the sake of simplicity and efficiency (which you can't do in XP as easily or as quickly), but when it is required that you browse through your installed programs, the absence of fly-out menus is a clear UI regression.For switching apps... alt tab? windows key + #? So many different, better ways to do this than using a mouse. Either way, your claim that the win xp menus were better is facially laughable.
Do we really need another thread about this?
Windows 8 is going to be a failure. Microsoft has set their sites on the tablet market, completely threw their desktop users under the bus, and think they are going to compete with Apple, which they cannot. Microsoft is not good at this type of thing. Windows 8 will be a failure on the level of ME and Vista (consumer perception wise).
Touch interface is going to be one of the future types of input devices. It will not completely replace a mouse/hand/pointer driven interface for a very long time, if ever.
Vista was not a piece of shit, and certainly not to the epic level of shit that ME was. Vista was half baked, no arguments, but it was a serviceable OS otherwise.Yea...not gonna happen. ME and Vista were just pieces of shit. 8 just has a new GUI,built on top of an updated 7 core. Plus you are basing your opinion on a beta that is at least 6 months away from release. The updates/new additions to the OS far outweigh the issues people are crying about with the GUI.
For browsing through installed programs, yes, the XP Classic-style menus were better. You should always use search to launch programs for the sake of simplicity and efficiency (which you can't do in XP as easily or as quickly), but when it is required that you browse through your installed programs, the absence of fly-out menus is a clear UI regression.
Qualify your statement.......how is it going to be better than anything else?
To me it looks and feels like W7 with a different initial GUI screen.
Nothing else to talk about.
It's essentially the same.
I can certainly agree with this. I think Metro is a great idea, for touch screen devices. Metro, and the removal of the traditional start menu, are not good ideas on regular, non touch, PC's, imho.
I still have some hope that MS will give the start menu back, but I have little hope that they will not make people click through Metro to get to the desktop.
It's not so much the clicking that slows you: it's the lack of space dedicated to the programs list in the Vista/7 Start menu. The menu could have been expanded vertically (and possibly also horizontally) to accommodate a greater number of entries in the program group after clicking "All Programs", but it does not expand vertically nor horizontally. Therein lies the issue: far fewer installed programs are immediately visible to the user, requiring users to scroll in nearly every instance to find the application they're looking for. Given that the program list is best used in scenarios where users can't recall the name of the application they're looking for, and thus cannot simply search for it, presenting a very limited subset of applications and requiring that users scroll is not particularly advantageous.This ease of use comes at a cost: If you're one of those people who can guide a mouse with pixel-perfect precision, then you're going to find mouse-based menu navigation a bit slower due to the extra clicking.