Mass Effect 3 SPOILERS THREAD

[MacLeod]

If the destroy ending is the best one, its the one you work the least to get. If you get to the Catalyst with a really low EMS score, the destroy option is all you get. How could the Reapers trick you if the only option you have is the right one?

 

[Dallows]

I don't find it all that far fetched really. The ending was clearly rushed, so going with as many reused assets as possible would certainly save time. The thing with the trees is another one where I think people are seeing what they want to see. The trees and shrubs appear there before you're hit by the beam. While they certainly don't belong there, they do exist before the blast (maybe not in the exact same spots, but I don't think people are worried about the consistency of the placement).

A lot of the stuff really could be reuse of assets or coincidence really. The volume of it does make it hard to ignore though.

No you wouldn't build a whole new model and animation for his disintegration and then just copy/paste TIM's eyes. That doesn't make sense.

Are you sure the trees are there? I would have to go back and look but I don't remember them being there.

For me, I go back and forth whether or not I buy into it. At the end of the day, the thing that I just can't rationalize away is the fact that you wake up only after the destroy. Not only that, but it also takes the most EMS to do. It's only logical the "best" ending would take the most work. I was also jarred a bit to realize that control and synthesis represent the solutions of the two most prominent indoctrinated characters. Although it does kind of bother me you don't survive in the rest of the endings too. After all, if it was a dream, shouldn't you wake up in control/synthesis as well? Just because you pushed towards indoctrination doesn't mean you're dead.

You wouldn't have the character wake up because the player is no longer in control, the reapers are. Having him wake up indicates he broke their last attempt at indoctrination and the player is in control again.

Ive been watching videos all day while at my 2 jobs so I'm probably gonna get fired and although there are still a few questions that just stand out as WTF moments, I'm still sticking to my "this is it" theory that this is the intended ending and BioWare just botched it. I mean they've done it before. Look at the whole premise of ME2. Shepard is blown out of a ship and re-enters a planets atmosphere but they find his body and bring him back to life????? An atmosphere will burn up a metor that is several thousand pounds of rock, it would burn to ashes a human body. I don't think its out of the realm of possibilities that BioWare can come up with a WTF story line sometimes. I'm still not sure what the hell happened on Jacob's loyalty mission. His dad crash landed but didn't call for help but instead waited til all his people had turned into mental midgets after a decade. Wut?

I think Shepard's body was pretty fucked up when they found him. But maybe his suit was advanced enough it protected from total destruction.

Almost all the "proof" pointed out in those videos I watched were a good little stretch. Saying that the Catalyst was there longer in the control ending but disappeared quicker in the destroy ending so that's proof that it was a trick. Or that for a fraction of a second, Shepard's eyes look like TIM's which is proof he's indoctrinated even tho TIM eyes looked like that before he was indoctrinated. Stuff like that I just can't buy

I don't think you can say that about TIM's eyes. Do you know how long he was indoctrinated for? Could've been the whole of ME2. I don't think anyone knows.

 

[Dallows]

If the destroy ending is the best one, its the one you work the least to get. If you get to the Catalyst with a really low EMS score, the destroy option is all you get. How could the Reapers trick you if the only option you have is the right one?

You don't wake up without the highest EMS. That's the point.

 

[J W]

No you wouldn't build a whole new model and animation for his disintegration and then just copy/paste TIM's eyes. That doesn't make sense.

Are you sure the trees are there? I would have to go back and look but I don't remember them being there.

There are a couple of trees before the laser beam, but they are off to the side. They become more prominent after Shepard wakes up (which is weird because you would assume the beam would destroy the trees).

Edit: Here we go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-jMNqDMBQA

Put it at 2:56 or so and look at the far right.

After the beam:

 

[MacLeod]

You don't wake up without the highest EMS. That's the point.

We keep hearing how the control and synthesis options are giving in to indoctrination and destroy is the right one, but if you have a low score, the destroy is the only option. The other 2 become available as you increase your score. Doesn't make sense that the higher your score. the more "bad" endings are available. And if the Reapers are trying to trick you. you'd have to have more than 1 option available.

 

[mas]

According to an interview with the chick that voiced Miranda, they don't really present a lot of context to you. You just record lines for the most part. She had to have someone try to give context to her in order to help her out since she wasn't really a voice actor before doing Mass Effect 2. She also said it's confusing because you voice lines in Mass Effect for different choices the player makes.

And if you listen closely to some dialog options in the games, the dialog may be similar, but the subtext of the line delivery sometimes changes. It's subtle and you don't always notice it. Honestly, none of the voice actors may know what the story actually is unless they've gone back and played the finished product. It seems to me like the voice director would sit there with a script that has all the different dialog branches and notes from the writers about what they need in the line deliver. So the voice director would say, OK, give me the same line you did last time, but make it sound more flirty or sexier. Alright, now give me this line, but sound really pissed off this time.

Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale also have tons and tons of dialog to deliver. Their voices are also heard, albeit applied with a different accent at times for extras as well. Dialog they've read for the game may not necessarily be done in order either as some details of a game like this will remain fluid until the end. They also probably record a lot of extra stuff that gets cut. So yeah, Jennifer Hale may have recorded dialog for various endings and never known that's what the dialog was for. That's probably gross over simplification of things, she may have been aware of many possible endings, but if she hasn't watched the final product or played it, she may not have the context needed to know where all her lines went.

this has always been immediately apparent to me from the get go, something I always hoped they would improve on but never have. you can easily tell for the most part they're getting zero direction whatsoever, that's why Meer sounds so monotone and Hale overacts every other line, just completely different approaches they take in trying to sound natural. they might get some motivation like "you're super pissed at this guy and about to kick his ass" or "epic speech lets go to war" or "this is you waking up half dead in a pile of rotting flesh", but otherwise just having them blast through all the lines on their own.

also why I think most of the supporting characters sound so much better, they're way more focused and have alot less to grind through, and the reason my first play through is always fem shep. it's much more entertaining for there to be at least some emotion rather than none, by the time I get around to replaying it later with mr monotone I can skip over most of those lines.

 

[Drown Babies]

this has always been immediately apparent to me from the get go, something I always hoped they would improve on but never have. you can easily tell for the most part they're getting zero direction whatsoever, that's why Meer sounds so monotone and Hale overacts every other line, just completely different approaches they take in trying to sound natural. they might get some motivation like "you're super pissed at this guy and about to kick his ass" or "epic speech lets go to war" or "this is you waking up half dead in a pile of rotting flesh", but otherwise just having them blast through all the lines on their own.

also why I think most of the supporting characters sound so much better, they're way more focused and have alot less to grind through, and the reason my first play through is always fem shep. it's much more entertaining for there to be at least some emotion rather than none, by the time I get around to replaying it later with mr monotone I can skip over most of those lines.

If you really want to know everything about how Bioware does their voice recording, and everything about Jennifer Hale just read the New Yorker article from last year.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/15/110815fa_fact_bissell

I think it's behind a paywall, so I guess you'll need to really want to read it. In short, they don't get the whole script, just lines; they don't have a huge amount of context, but there is some, from things like stage cues, recording director suggestions, and from the other characters' dialogue; Hale records a huge number of variations for each line so that they can choose what works best later; and she doesn't give a shit about playing the game itself, the first time she ever played it was during the interview for the article (which apparently was kind of weird because she started talking in her Shepard voice).

 

[MacLeod]

I thought they did pretty good. There are a few times their voices don't sound "natural" for a particular moment but I'd say 98% of he time, its about right especially in 2 and 3.

 

[soulsavior]

We keep hearing how the control and synthesis options are giving in to indoctrination and destroy is the right one, but if you have a low score, the destroy is the only option. The other 2 become available as you increase your score. Doesn't make sense that the higher your score. the more "bad" endings are available. And if the Reapers are trying to trick you. you'd have to have more than 1 option available.

I found this weird too, although in the end it doesn't matter because you're dead anyway.

My own personal interpretation on the "dream" thing that differs from some people would be that the reapers aren't controlling this dream in anyway. Their influence is indirectly causing the dream (shepard's subconscious conjuring up the images due to the indoctrination), but they aren't actively controlling it. The same way you might dream about something that happened to you in your life. Whoever/whatever that dream was about wasn't actually controlled by them, you just had it as a result of your subconscious.

I agree though, seems like control should have been the "bad' ending. Frankly, it adds to the weirdness in my opinion. Destroy requires the least EMS to see, but yet also has the largest EMS requirement, if you want the "Shepard alive" scene. Weird.

 

[soulsavior]

Are you sure the trees are there? I would have to go back and look but I don't remember them being there.

Yeah, I went back and played through it. I thought that was incredibly interesting when I first read about it, so I was disappointed to find they're actually there before the beam. They aren't all in the same spots, but there's definitely shrubs and trees.

 

[Dan_D]

Yeah, I went back and played through it. I thought that was incredibly interesting when I first read about it, so I was disappointed to find they're actually there before the beam. They aren't all in the same spots, but there's definitely shrubs and trees.

There aren't shrubs or trees in the streets. But yeah, London has them in places.

 

[Dan_D]

There are a couple of trees before the laser beam, but they are off to the side. They become more prominent after Shepard wakes up (which is weird because you would assume the beam would destroy the trees).

Edit: Here we go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-jMNqDMBQA

Put it at 2:56 or so and look at the far right.

After the beam:
Image snip..............

That is my precise take on it as well. Why would they be there after the beam?

You don't wake up without the highest EMS. That's the point.

Exactly. But you only wake up in the destroy ending.

We keep hearing how the control and synthesis options are giving in to indoctrination and destroy is the right one, but if you have a low score, the destroy is the only option. The other 2 become available as you increase your score. Doesn't make sense that the higher your score. the more "bad" endings are available. And if the Reapers are trying to trick you. you'd have to have more than 1 option available.

And as I've said 100x before when someone brings this up in the thread, you only see Shepard wake up in the destroy ending if you have an EMS score in excess of 4,000. Short of that, you don't get that last scene. So again to get the better option you still have to get a higher score. As to why you don't get the other two options with a lower EMS, I've got no idea, but you don't survive either, so whatever.

 

[soulsavior]

There aren't shrubs or trees in the streets. But yeah, London has them in places.

Not sure what you mean. There's definitely shrubs and trees in the path on the way to the beam, I just played that part again since everybody is making me think I'm insane. They aren't as pronounced as after the blast, but they're there. There's a group of 3 trees off to the right you can walk up close to (blast hits you around the time you get there) and quite a few shrubs along the middle of the path.

I did just notice the pile of bodies off to the side after the blast is basically just ME1 Ashley skin and something that's maybe Kaidan. Now that's just plain weird. Could be lazy reuse of textures, but it seems like they'd have had a much better texture than that.

 

[Dallows]

I found out earlier that your galactic readiness goes down if you don't keep up with playing MP. What. The. Fuck?

 

[Dallows]

Not sure what you mean. There's definitely shrubs and trees in the path on the way to the beam, I just played that part again since everybody is making me think I'm insane. They aren't as pronounced as after the blast, but they're there. There's a group of 3 trees off to the right you can walk up close to (blast hits you around the time you get there) and quite a few shrubs along the middle of the path.

This is more of a stretch... but could Harbinger be projecting these images into Shepard's head? Much like the possibility of the child being in Shepard's mind?

Does anyone recall the same trees being in other parts of London? I'd have to replay it.

 

[MacLeod]

And as I've said 100x before when someone brings this up in the thread, you only see Shepard wake up in the destroy ending if you have an EMS score in excess of 4,000. Short of that, you don't get that last scene. So again to get the better option you still have to get a higher score. As to why you don't get the other two options with a lower EMS, I've got no idea, but you don't survive either, so whatever.

Doesn't matter if its the only one you wake up in. The theory is the Reapers are trying to trick you but you only have 1 option if you have a low EMS score? Doesn't make sense under the indoctrination theory. If the Reapers are trying to trick you, by definition you'll always have to have more than 1 choice.

I also don't see how controlling the Reapers means you're indoctrinated. Its the only option in which the Citadel is not destroyed and the Reapers obey you and leave. I get how synthesis could be viewed as has since you're joining with the Reapers which is what they wanted all along anyway.

The "tree" theory is a complete reach as bad as the "catalyst smirked" bit. There were trees there before and after Shepard is hit. Harbinger's beam was shooting specific targets. It wasn't burning down a whole wide swath of acreage. There would still be trees standing after Harbinger zapped everybody and left.

There are tons more unanswered questions like how TIM controlled Anderson and Shepard and how did the Catalyst know about the boy. These are plenty to ponder without arguing over shrubbery.

 

[Maplehamwich]

Doesn't matter if its the only one you wake up in. The theory is the Reapers are trying to trick you but you only have 1 option if you have a low EMS score? Doesn't make sense under the indoctrination theory. If the Reapers are trying to trick you, by definition you'll always have to have more than 1 choice.

I also don't see how controlling the Reapers means you're indoctrinated. Its the only option in which the Citadel is not destroyed and the Reapers obey you and leave. I get how synthesis could be viewed as has since you're joining with the Reapers which is what they wanted all along anyway.

The "tree" theory is a complete reach as bad as the "catalyst smirked" bit. There were trees there before and after Shepard is hit. Harbinger's beam was shooting specific targets. It wasn't burning down a whole wide swath of acreage. There would still be trees standing after Harbinger zapped everybody and left.

There are tons more unanswered questions like how TIM controlled Anderson and Shepard and how did the Catalyst know about the boy. These are plenty to ponder without arguing over shrubbery.

I think you're missing a key part of Indoctrination Theory. The idea is that the whole ending is a fake "projection/inception" from the reapers. Whether you try to control, synthesize or shoot doesn't matter, it's all fake. The difference between the endings is:

- If you control or synthesize the reapers have you indoctrinated, so you never "wake up" so to speak, you are under direct reaper control. They have you.

- However, if you destroy, you prevent indoctrination but are assumed to die.

- If you have high enough EMS and readiness and destroy, then you "wake up" from the indoctrination attempt, un-indoctrinated to continue on fighting the reapers.

Thus, if destroy is the only option, and you have no ems then you die and the reapers don't really care anyway. After all, the insidious nature of indoctrination (again, we don't know how long it's been happening) can lead to death, and the more rapid the indoctrination, the earlier the death.

Now, how ems plays into the whole thing in terms of available endings and reaper intent, I really don't know how IT would try to incorporate that. However, the ending choices/lack of choices doesn't really refute IT. The only snag is: Why does ems matter?

 

[killerbobjr]

Hmm... I could be wrong but I think the game still logs the choice you made at the end.

It would be weird if there was a save at the very end.

The whole point of the IT arguments is that what we see is not the "real" ending, that Shepard is indoctrinated, and that with a high enough EMS we get to see Shepard's torso breath after the red ending where thereupon we could continue on to the "real" ending. If that were the case, would we not have a way to save after the red ending? And believe me the average player of the game, especially on the console, is going to be restarting from the beginning of the Cerberus mission once they reach the end of the game.

I'm NOT saying Bioware definitely will not provide an alternate ending in a DLC. I AM saying Bioware originally intended the ending we see as the final ending to the ME series. As such, regardless of how much we hate the ending, I think it's pretty unlikely Bioware is going to change it.

 

[Dan_D]

I think you're missing a key part of Indoctrination Theory. The idea is that the whole ending is a fake "projection/inception" from the reapers. Whether you try to control, synthesize or shoot doesn't matter, it's all fake. The difference between the endings is:

- If you control or synthesize the reapers have you indoctrinated, so you never "wake up" so to speak, you are under direct reaper control. They have you.

- However, if you destroy, you prevent indoctrination but are assumed to die.

- If you have high enough EMS and readiness and destroy, then you "wake up" from the indoctrination attempt, un-indoctrinated to continue on fighting the reapers.

Thus, if destroy is the only option, and you have no ems then you die and the reapers don't really care anyway. After all, the insidious nature of indoctrination (again, we don't know how long it's been happening) can lead to death, and the more rapid the indoctrination, the earlier the death.

Now, how ems plays into the whole thing in terms of available endings and reaper intent, I really don't know how IT would try to incorporate that. However, the ending choices/lack of choices doesn't really refute IT. The only snag is: Why does ems matter?

Agreed. None of it is real. All of it shy of Shepard waking up in the rubble is crap. And no one said that the Reapers are controlling the dream. More like, all they can do is influence Shepard, but much of it seems to be constructed from his or her experiences. I think all of what we are seeing is symbolic of that struggle and nothing more.

Harbinger's beam wasn't exactly precise and surgical. It did a lot of damage and did sweep the area. And again the bushes aren't in the middle of the damned street before the blast hits. That's bullshit. I never saw anything about the catalyst smirking. That one is new and given the nature of the vague energy like figure, I'll ignore that one myself. But I'm pretty sure the boy is a projection of Harbinger since the first time we see him in the air duct. I don't even know if we ever really saw him playing outside, or running into the building. Maybe, but the boy Shepard sees in the air duct is almost certainly a projection.

 

[MacLeod]

Harbinger's beam was pretty precise. Go back and watch and he's picking off soldiers pretty dead on.

The Catalyst "smirking" is in a few videos showing "proof" of IT and it just ain't there.

Like I said before, we're all seeing the same things for the most part, we're just interpreting them differently. The only things that I'm with the IT guys on as being just out of place is my squad being on the Normandy when they were with me, Shepard waking up in what is obviously not the Citadel, TIM being able to control Shepard and Anderson and how the Catalyst knew about the boy. Those are obvious WTF. The rest I just see as had writing and graphical inconsistencies of which ME games have done before.

If new DLC comes out expanding on the IT theory, we'll know who was right by when it comes out. If it comes out soon with full stories and voice acting, its been in the works all along. If it comes out way down the road or soon but with little to no voice acting and just mainly cut scenes then we know it was thrown together last minute to soften the backlash.

 

[mas]

In short, they don't get the whole script, just lines; they don't have a huge amount of context, but there is some, from things like stage cues, recording director suggestions, and from the other characters' dialogue; Hale records a huge number of variations for each line so that they can choose what works best later; and she doesn't give a shit about playing the game itself, the first time she ever played it was during the interview for the article (which apparently was kind of weird because she started talking in her Shepard voice).

yea makes sense. in any case if you compare filmographies, hers is like 10x longer than Meer's, the difference in experience with va is just huge. I always found it kind of odd they would hire all kinds of a-list for supporting roles and skimp on male shep.

 

[Drown Babies]

yea makes sense. in any case if you compare filmographies, hers is like 10x longer than Meer's, the difference in experience with va is just huge. I always found it kind of odd they would hire all kinds of a-list for supporting roles and skimp on male shep.

Yeah she is in a ton of games, including lots of other Bioware games, so she probably has a lot of experience with the same people, or at least the same system. And it's probably hard to get big time actors like Martin Sheen to do the thousands of lines required for major roles, or, more likely, it's probably hard for Bioware to pay what they would want for such a big role.

 

[J W]

BioWare and EA have both said they want to make more Mass Effect games. The franchise is too critically and commercially successful to just throw in the garbage bin. We will see more games.

Because of this, I agree that the end of ME3 is exactly as BioWare wants it. I don't believe, however, that the end of ME3 is the end to this particular story, though, granted, it could be the end of Shepard. Killing the Reapers means there's no point to playing any more of this story (unless they turn this into a post apocalyptic RPG), so BioWare's going to need to develop (or continue to develop) the framework of a new threat which will be the center point in future ME games. Even if they want to jump to the distant future in the ME universe, they still need to continue to prepare ME3's ending to act as a proper springboard.

The other side to this is that BioWare does not kill off the Reapers. This would basically confirm the indoctrination/dream/hallucination theories.

We've already discussed the prospect of prequels: it's not good.

 

[Drown Babies]

Well it seems we may have all been a little hasty in assuming we were going to get a "real" ending, with Shepard actually doing something after waking up.

With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for while maintaining the team's artistic vision for the end of this story arc in the Mass Effect universe."

says Ray Muyzka and

We have reprioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player.

from Casey Hudson, apparently through

additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes

"More context and clarity", right, because that't what we were missing clarity.

I can't find a direct link (I'm blocked out of most game sites), but a quick google search gives about a few dozen games news sites with more info. It's apparently free, but only until April 12 .... 2014 that is.

 

[Q-BZ]

We've already discussed the prospect of prequels: it's not good.

I won't buy any of it if they go down that lame and woefully overused road.

 

[Dan_D]

Well it seems we may have all been a little hasty in assuming we were going to get a "real" ending, with Shepard actually doing something after waking up.

With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for while maintaining the team's artistic vision for the end of this story arc in the Mass Effect universe."

says Ray Muyzka and

We have reprioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player.

from Casey Hudson. "More context and clarity", right, because that't what we were missing clarity.

I can't find a direct link (I'm blocked out of most game sites), but a quick google search gives about a few dozen games news sites with more info.

I won't believe anything from them until I play for myself and see it in the game. We've been lied to far too many times by BioWare and EA recently to take anything they say at face value. A lot of what they say may be simple damage control to avoid pissing off the fans and a lot of it may be done in a way as to prevent further leaks of information before the right time.

 

[Q-BZ]

I won't believe anything from them until I play for myself and see it in the game. We've been lied to far too many times by BioWare and EA recently to take anything they say at face value.

Exactly. Believe absolutely nothing until it's in front of you.

 

[J W]

Well it seems we may have all been a little hasty in assuming we were going to get a "real" ending, with Shepard actually doing something after waking up.

With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for while maintaining the team's artistic vision for the end of this story arc in the Mass Effect universe."

says Ray Muyzka and

We have reprioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player.

from Casey Hudson. "More context and clarity", right, because that't what we were missing clarity.

I can't find a direct link (I'm blocked out of most game sites), but a quick google search gives about a few dozen games news sites with more info.

It figures something like this would come out today. This is basically so they wont get bombarded tomorrow at PAX with hate.

It's definitely interesting, though. I'm shocked it's free.

I won't buy any of it if they go down that lame and woefully overused road.

Me neither.

 

[Dan_D]

It looks like all they may change or add to the ending(s) is video and call it done. Especially given the short amount of time since release to the availability of the download. The fact they are giving it away for free is also telling.

If it's true that BioWare just botched the ending this bad and there is no greater meaning in it then I'll be floored, not to mention at least as pissed as I was when I first saw these garbage endings. I don't know how they can remedy the whole thing with a download like this. We'll see though. I want to keep an open mind and give the new ending a fair shake, but it's hard to be optimistic about it at this point.

 

[mas]

BioWare and EA have both said they want to make more Mass Effect games. The franchise is too critically and commercially successful to just throw in the garbage bin. We will see more games.

Because of this, I agree that the end of ME3 is exactly as BioWare wants it. I don't believe, however, that the end of ME3 is the end to this particular story, though, granted, it could be the end of Shepard. Killing the Reapers means there's no point to playing any more of this story (unless they turn this into a post apocalyptic RPG), so BioWare's going to need to develop (or continue to develop) the framework of a new threat which will be the center point in future ME games. Even if they want to jump to the distant future in the ME universe, they still need to continue to prepare ME3's ending to act as a proper springboard.

The other side to this is that BioWare does not kill off the Reapers. This would basically confirm the indoctrination/dream/hallucination theories.

We've already discussed the prospect of prequels: it's not good.

completely disagree that this is how "bioware" wanted it, and this to me is how we ended up with such a broken story. I believe the original writers had a different and not as batshit crazy conclusion intended for the game, then EA steps in and says "we're going to keep milking this, don't you go dry on me". thus lead design and head writer takes charge, to ensure that the audience is left scratching their heads and salivating for more, whatever that may be. so we're going to obediently sit on their heels wagging our tails, and lap it all up as soon as they feel we're ready for another treat.

comments from people who have those behind-the-scenes documentary apps released alongside the game have made it obvious, the intended ending that was planned from the start was wildly different from what we got here. everything around the release of this game points to last minute changes made simply for the sake of monetary gain. which would be a totally different matter altogether, and not inherently wrong depending on the way they went about it, if they had taken the time to do it right.

there is a pretty good discussion going on at ars, for anyone who wants a simple explanation of what went wrong, and why it's a waste to be drumming up theories of indoctrination and such, for both newcomers and those who have been following the entire series from the beginning:

Mass Effect 3: The Ending - Discussion Thread (Bioware writer reveals why it sucked)

 

[J W]

LOL.

Free* DLC Pack to Provide Additional Cinematic Scenes to the Ending of Mass Effect 3 this Summer

...

* OFFER EXPIRES APRIL 12, 2014. INTERNET CONNECTION AND ORIGIN (EA), XBOX LIVE, OR PLAYSTATION NETWORK ACCOUNT REQUIRED.

People who buy the game on April 13, 2014 will have to pay for this!

completely disagree that this is how "bioware" wanted it ...

Given the recent announcement, you may be right. I'm not sure what to make of it. I think BioWare thinks it knows what it's doing.

 

[Dan_D]

completely disagree that this is how "bioware" wanted it, and this to me is how we ended up with such a broken story. I believe the original writers had a different and not as batshit crazy conclusion intended for the game, then EA steps in and says "we're going to keep milking this, don't you go dry on me". thus lead design and head writer takes charge, to ensure that the audience is left scratching their heads and salivating for more, whatever that may be. so we're going to obediently sit on their heels wagging our tails, and lap it all up as soon as they feel we're ready for another treat.

comments from people who have those behind-the-scenes documentary apps released alongside the game have made it obvious, the intended ending that was planned from the start was wildly different from what we got here. everything around the release of this game points to last minute changes made simply for the sake of monetary gain. which would be a totally different matter altogether, and not inheritenly wrong depending on the way they went about it, if they had taken the time to do it right.

there is a pretty good discussion going on at ars, for anyone who wants a simple explanation of what went wrong, and why it's a waste to be drumming up theories of indoctrination and such, for both newcomers and those who have been following the entire series from the beginning:

Mass Effect 3: The Ending - Discussion Thread (Bioware writer reveals why it sucked)

Well the leaked script showed a different ending as well. That one BioWare writer's post (even though he won't admit to posting it) is pretty clear on how things happened internally. Honestly I've always thought this was some kind of stunt for both PR and to generate more money via DLC. Now they are playing nice by giving us something for free, but I'm not expecting much from the free download. This move is probably just to give themselves good PR for a change. But I'll wager that anything we get will still leave the story extremely open so that BioWare and EA can milk this further.

 

[Drown Babies]

completely disagree that this is how "bioware" wanted it, and this to me is how we ended up with such a broken story. I believe the original writers had a different and not as batshit crazy conclusion intended for the game, then EA steps in and says "we're going to keep milking this, don't you go dry on me". thus lead design and head writer takes charge, to ensure that the audience is left scratching their heads and salivating for more, whatever that may be. so we're going to obediently sit on their heels wagging our tails, and lap it all up as soon as they feel we're ready for another treat.

comments from people who have those behind-the-scenes documentary apps released alongside the game have made it obvious, the intended ending that was planned from the start was wildly different from what we got here. everything around the release of this game points to last minute changes made simply for the sake of monetary gain. which would be a totally different matter altogether, and not inheritenly wrong depending on the way they went about it, if they had taken the time to do it right.

there is a pretty good discussion going on at ars, for anyone who wants a simple explanation of what went wrong, and why it's a waste to be drumming up theories of indoctrination and such, for both newcomers and those who have been following the entire series from the beginning:

Mass Effect 3: The Ending - Discussion Thread (Bioware writer reveals why it sucked)

I think today's news just supports this. If they had released an incomplete ending as some kind of stunt to build anticipation (a stupid idea for sure, but I can at least understand why some people would think it was a good idea) then I would expect more than "context and clarity" and a few more cinematics for the "real" ending.

It's a little hard to accept that they just fell on their faces for the ending, the games all have their problems, some of them quite significant, but they were mostly consistent in telling an engaging and refined story. All of the inconsistencies and plot holes here, if not intentional, reek of a rush job.

 

[Dan_D]

I think today's news just supports this. If they had released an incomplete ending as some kind of stunt to build anticipation (a stupid idea for sure, but I can at least understand why some people would think it was a good idea) then I would expect more than "context and clarity" and a few more cinematics for the "real" ending.

It's a little hard to accept that they just fell on their faces for the ending, the games all have their problems, some of them quite significant, but they were mostly consistent in telling an engaging and refined story. All of the inconsistencies and plot holes here, if not intentional, reek of a rush job.

I have a problem with the idea that they just fell off the wagon in the last 10 minutes of story crafting here. You've got consistency of plot and overarching stories between all three games. Things are said by characters in ME1 and ME2 which now have context in ME3 and make sense. The story has been finely crafted and designed. The devil is in the details and the details aside from the dark energy subplot are all represented in the third game and aren't just discarded. Hell even the Starchild actually resembles the description of the beings said to have inhabited Klencory in the Mass Effect 1 codex entry for that planet. Coincidence? Doubtful. There is more going on here, and I guess April 12th we'll find out what the deal is. Or hopefully. For all we know they are simply structuring the ending of the game to connect to a Mass Effect 4.

Who knows?

As for context and clarity, if they basically said that the indoctrination theory was true. That would add all the context and clarity you needed. They wouldn't have to do anything, you would just know that Shepard's fight isn't over if your EMS was high enough and that ultimately the galactic races either failed to stop the Reapers or the fight is still unfinished. I'm not saying this is what they are planning to do, but the statement that they are adding context and clarity doesn't mean they are doing much, but something simple could be a huge revelation. It would even fit with their artistic vision to add something completely different or to readd content that was removed originally. It's hard to say at this point.

 

[Kinsaras]

Games: BioWare Announces Free Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut
Source: BioWare April 5, 2012

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/gamenews.php?id=88928

BioWare, a Label of Electronic Arts Inc., today announced Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut, a downloadable content pack that will expand upon the events at the end of the critically acclaimed Action RPG. Through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will give fans seeking further clarity to the ending of Mass Effect 3 deeper insights into how their personal journey concludes. Coming this summer, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will be available for download on the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 and PC for no extra charge.

"We are all incredibly proud of 'Mass Effect 3' and the work done by Casey Hudson and team,” said Dr. Ray Muzyka, Co-Founder of BioWare and General Manager of EA’s BioWare Label. “Since launch, we have had time to listen to the feedback from our most passionate fans and we are responding. With the 'Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut' we think we have struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for while maintaining the team's artistic vision for the end of this story arc in the 'Mass Effect' universe."

Casey Hudson, Executive Producer of the Mass Effect series added, "We have reprioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player."

For more information, visit MassEffect.com.

 

[J W]

As long as they clean up the whole trouble with the exploding Mass Relays. That's the biggest thing that gets me.

 

[Dan_D]

As long as they clean up the whole trouble with the exploding Mass Relays. That's the biggest thing that gets me.

That and the Normandy crash. I still will hate the Starchild AI thing and the way the crucibal was portrayed, but clearing those issues up will make things easier to deal with.

 

[Elios]

wow WE GOT TROLLLLLLEED hard guys

 

[Savi]

Bioware as we knew and loved has been dead, and this new Bioware is just a brand for EA

 

[Maplehamwich]

Casey Hudson, Executive Producer of the Mass Effect series added, "We have reprioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player."

I despise this man. The full BioWare press release gives me a bit of hope. However, Casey Hudson's comments make me feel like I did when I originally saw the endings: empty. I have no faith in BioWare because of that man. I don't believe that next Thursday will present anything satisfying; Only more frustration. Though, I suppose time will tell.

I started Mass Effect 1 again earlier this week, excited to try to get more details out of the series. I was finding it tough though, as I really don't like how Mass Effect 1 plays (after having played Mass Effect 3). However, I was willing to plow through to get to the story points. Now though, I am giving up playing. If something is released for Mass Effect 3 that provides tantalizing enough content, I may pick the series back up. For now though, I'm done.