Krenum
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Diablo 3 - Beta thread
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PornoSatan
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How many of you actually even still play Diablo 1 or Diablo 2? You're running off your childhood memories. I'm probably one of the few people here who STILL actually plays both games. I'd consider myself a pretty hardcore fan. With that said, I think Diablo 3 will be much scarier than Diablo 1 or Diablo 2. Why? Because you can't insta-leave as soon as you feel you're in danger like you could in D1 and D2. What does this mean? It means Hardcore mode will actually be Hardcore. And that makes me a happy panda, characters will die when they deserve to. You know what alot of people do in Diablo 2 right now on Hardcore mode Diablo 2? They download a hack which (among many other things) makes them auto heal potion when they're at say 80% health, auto-townportal and enter at 60%, and auto-exits the game when they're at 40%. It's quite sad actually. Diablo 3 won't have this because the leave function is similar to WoW's "Logoff" option (ie takes a few seconds). The possible caveats to this is how fast a "Disconnect" logs you off, if it does it quite fast, people might start alt-F4'ing or auto-crashing the game in order to leave, but who knows.
Also, teleport won't be as strong. No more Enigma runeword, and Teleport has a cooldown so no more teleporting to a boss in 10 seconds because every character has Enigma and 80%+ Faster Cast Rate like Diablo 2. In other words magic finding will require more effort. I'm sure the meta game will evolve and people will find a "best place to farm" or whatever, but it's almost a guaruntee it won't be as fast or effecient as Diablo 2, which is a good thing.
My personal fear is the massive amount of bots that will eventually infest the game. This CANNOT be avoided, and it WILL happen eventually, we can only hope it takes a while to implement them.
The game isn't going to be perfect guys, but it's going to be an epic experience. Once it is released we're going to love it, you have my word.
Also, teleport won't be as strong. No more Enigma runeword, and Teleport has a cooldown so no more teleporting to a boss in 10 seconds because every character has Enigma and 80%+ Faster Cast Rate like Diablo 2. In other words magic finding will require more effort. I'm sure the meta game will evolve and people will find a "best place to farm" or whatever, but it's almost a guaruntee it won't be as fast or effecient as Diablo 2, which is a good thing.
My personal fear is the massive amount of bots that will eventually infest the game. This CANNOT be avoided, and it WILL happen eventually, we can only hope it takes a while to implement them.
The game isn't going to be perfect guys, but it's going to be an epic experience. Once it is released we're going to love it, you have my word.
Yoshiyuki Blade
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I personally like the desaturated look of D2 too, but that's not to say that D3's art direction is bad. It's more or less the same situation we were between SC:BW and SC2 (though to be honest, SC2 now actually looks less cartoony than SC:BW after they responded to criticism IMO). D3 is still nowhere close to the amount of saturation that WoW has, I wouldn't mind it the way it is currently..
PornoSatan
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By the way, wouldn't that be awesome if a "Black Death" equivalent zombie was in Diablo 3? 
Talk about nerd rages and complaints, that would be awesome. One thing that made the older games so good was the developers were naive and inexperienced. Stuff like the Black Death or Fire Enchanted bug was possible, or how Hell was insanely hard for a Warrior because Red Vex's would constantly run away (they were coded to flee if in melee range) while the others fired millions of Blood Stars at you. Things like that made the game experience so much more intense, much of the time unintentionally.
I personally think games these days are too "refined" in that sense.
Talk about nerd rages and complaints, that would be awesome. One thing that made the older games so good was the developers were naive and inexperienced. Stuff like the Black Death or Fire Enchanted bug was possible, or how Hell was insanely hard for a Warrior because Red Vex's would constantly run away (they were coded to flee if in melee range) while the others fired millions of Blood Stars at you. Things like that made the game experience so much more intense, much of the time unintentionally.I personally think games these days are too "refined" in that sense.
Yoshiyuki Blade
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Yea there were also crazy stuff like Stone Skin (50% physical damage reduction) + 50% global damage reduction in Hell difficulty = Immune to Physical. I can't remember what Black Death was though. The only other deadly combo I remember was Multi-shot + Lightning Enchanted.
PornoSatan
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MSLE is a good one. Black Death were zombies in Diablo 1. When they hit you, they would remove 1 HP from your health pool permanently, in addition to their normal damage.
The widespread use of trainers at the end of Diablo's hay day made me almost completely forget about those..
D
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Well I've been playing Diablo 1/2 recently and watched a few 1080p D3 streams, and it looks exactly like a Diablo game to me, So, there.
Not to mention I distinctly remember a couple Diablo 2 reviews where they complained about how bland and dated the graphics were. And this was back in 2000.
Krenum
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I don't like your attitude Sir.
While I don't oppose the the Diablo 3 changes; I do oppose your love it or apathy approach.
Slachtbeest
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Agreed.
Visuals are, for me anyway, extremely important though; they make give the experience more/less immersion, depending on how they're done.
With D3, I really don't see an "issue"; it's not as if it looks like a cartoony circus.
The level of detail looks, to me, rather amazing for a game like D3, down the the musculature of the creatures and spell effects. In terms of color, I don't feel it's "too colorful", because the atmosphere is still there.
No, it's not exactly like D1/D2, but that doesn't mean there's no atmosphere, it's just a bit different. Of course, the toads cast by the Witch Doctor look a bit bright green, ha ha.
I know my wife and I will be playing the hell out of D3, and probably the Witch Doctor first, as I think the skills are damn cool, IMO, especially due to the detail of the visuals.
TheCommander
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After playing the beta, the game is very good but the "Diablo feel" is a bit weak compared to the first two. Diablo 1 was dark and spooky and you were afraid to turn every corner. Diablo 2 was also that way but to a lesser extent. D3 to an even lesser extent. Regardless of that, the skill system is fun and the game moves pretty smoothly. The biggest problem I see is character custimization. Except for equipment, there is little difference between characters; there are no stat points and characters can respec whenever they like. That I hope they change.
Been playing through the weekend and I've been really enjoying it. Very polished and I have yet to encounter any bug. It has the Diablo gameplay feel but not so much the "danger" feel-I have yet to fear going anywhere or jumping into a fight. Also the art does at times tend to get distracting as when I walk into a scene and suddenly I get this kind of a deja-vu. I think it's because of the similarity of the visuals to WOW. Also it would be nice if they pulled the view out a bit farther-I often forget and use my mouse wheel to zoom out. Get's really annoying.
Krenum
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That is what I was worried about, making it a game solely based on equipment, just like WoW.
I've been waiting in the PoE beta pool for a while now. I'd appreciate one.
Valshistixol
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So... you don't understand the difference between graphical quality and art design either, got it.
If you think the pixelated sludge in D2 is art, then good for you. If you think that art is better than the art in diablo 3, you are either just trolling against d3 because you think it looks like wow or some other stupid reason.
It's hard to have art design when everything is a low res blurry mush. And please let me know what art exactly was so great, and not this overall "it was scarier" shit.
Krenum
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It does look like WoW. The only reasons you could say it doesn't is.
1. You haven't played WoW or
2. You haven't played Diablo
Basically Blizzard did this. Here is top Blizzard designer so and so "Ok team, were making a new Diablo game, now its been awhile since we made one, actually never because BN no longer exists". "They made that shitty Hellgate London game and now Torchlight....Suckers". "Ok so our target audience is World of Warcraft players since that is making us the most money right now". "How do we get them to convert to Diablo 3?". "Well team its simple really, we just make it look like World of Warcraft". "Most of them won't be able to tell the difference since most of them never played the older Diablo games, Remember were in the 12-20 age bracket" "Oh , makes sense lol, your ideas intrigue me". " Also we will just transfer the use of pastel color pallets and smudgy 3d Disproportionate textures and close camera angles". 'But what about the loyal Diablo players from the past 2 games?" "Won't they catch on to this?". "Oh they are just a minute portion of the community, I'm sure some will but they don't matter, besides there are Millions of World of Warcraft subscribers". And so on......
And that is pretty much how it probably went.
About the art design , Play the Durance of Hate in act 3 or the Chaos Sancutary in 4, if anything even remotely looks like that in Diablo 3 I will stop complaining about the game.
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TED
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Why would they want to leach from their money maker market for a non pay to play game?
your argument doesnt make much sense.
your argument doesnt make much sense.
So, this is awesome?
And this is shit?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/media/screenshots/?view#/dh-013
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/media/screenshots/?view#/barb-004
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/media/screenshots/?view#/dh-009
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/media/screenshots/?view#/monk-taking-care-of-business
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/media/screenshots/?view#/monk-001
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/media/screenshots/?view#/monk-016
All I know is that PoE and Grim Dawn look moodier, scarier, and all around better than the stuff posted in the last thread.
The textures, lighting, and mood seem better orchestrated, at least in the screen shots. How the game play goes well we'll have to see on that. However, with that said, back in the day I was so engrossed in the game play the graphics in Acts 1 & 2 didn't bother me all that much, but Acts 3 & 4 were pretty intense back then and LoD was pretty killer; however, with that said the graphics haven't aged well at all in D2 imo.
The textures, lighting, and mood seem better orchestrated, at least in the screen shots. How the game play goes well we'll have to see on that. However, with that said, back in the day I was so engrossed in the game play the graphics in Acts 1 & 2 didn't bother me all that much, but Acts 3 & 4 were pretty intense back then and LoD was pretty killer; however, with that said the graphics haven't aged well at all in D2 imo.
Krenum
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Hey one thing about Hardcore mode,
What if your internet connection goes out during play and you die because of it, does your character get deleted?...
What if your internet connection goes out during play and you die because of it, does your character get deleted?...
yes.
krameriffic
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You mention rose-tinted glasses, but then you also mention instaleaving in your next breath. If you think for one second that a game released in 2011 will be ANYWHERE near as oppressively difficult as one released in 2000 was, you're in for a rude awakening. Remember the things that were difficult in D2? They were typically things that seemed arbitrary. Iron Maiden curses in the Chaos Sanctuary. Immune to physical random unique enemies. Those FUCKING gloams from everywhere in Act 5 on hell. These are things that fall under the umbrella of "bad game design" in modern terms, and these were the things that killed people and made the game murderously difficult. D3 will not be nearly as fast paced or relentlessly annoying with this style of encounter.
The removal of things like no CD teleport is an example of why they can't keep the difficulty on the level that they did before; players won't have the tools to handle it like they did in D2. They've subscribed to a different school of game balance, one based on limiting everything into a carefully carved out role. I just got done playing a stint of Median XL mod for D2 and the crowning achievement of that game is how versatile the character builds can be due to the fact that skills are really fucking strong pretty much across the board. Rather than making challenging things possible by nerfing everything, they make challenging things possible by allowing ridiculously powerful possibilities that are fun to put together. Mechanically, these things tend to be absurdly complex compared even to D2, so there is no chance we'll see it in D3. Depth like that has no place in mainstream gaming.
If Diablo 3 EVER achieves the level of "OH FUCK" that I felt the first time I ever heard the Butcher say "AHH FRESH MEAT" and proceed to chop my balls off, I will eat my own ass.
It's just not gonna happen.
Like I said, If you don't like it, don't buy it. Use that money towards something you actually like. Instead of whining and complaining. I've stopped buying into certain games because I didn't like the direction it was going. Vote with your wallet.
TheOneKnownAsMe
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Reminds me of an article on Team Liquid in regards to SC:BW. In BW, everything was ridiculously overpowered, and the counters were just more ridiculously overpowered tactics, and it seems like this same design holds true for both D2 and SC:BW. I miss it, quite frankly.
Umm, graphics does not equal art.
I feel like you're kind of picking on the first part of his quote while ignoring the second, he's saying that they're both good, that Diablo 3's artistic style is just as comparably, and aesthetically pleasing as the other. And graphics do equal art, they're an expressive form that our visual senses interpret and create an emotional, subjective response based on our experience of them. If they were anything other than art or the subjective, we wouldn't be arguing whether they're good or not.
Anyone that wants to call Diablo too WoW like is blind in my opinion, but again, it's my subjective experience of each of the three games(just played through both again, level 83 Bowzon on USEast if anyone wants to play). In my experience, the graphics of Diablo 3 have continuity, in that each of the three games feel visually like Diablo. Some of the stylization has altered, but that emotive feeling, the beauty, and the distinct diablo visceral feel is all still present. This game is Diablo, anyone arguing otherwise seems to me like they're just being contrarian. But again, that's my subjective experience, meaning your's cannot be wrong either.
On a side note, none of the colors in the game are saturated. From someone who took an interest in painting/drawing I can give a simple explanation of what saturated colors are in paint, and how it relates to Diablo. Here's the fact, saturated colors are colors which lack tint or tone. Which means they're either primary, secondary, or tertiary colors which have not had either black or white added to them. So I just wanted to point out that that distinction of colors being saturated is kind of incorrect, none of these colors come anywhere close to being straight off the color wheel.
Anyway, thanks for reading, I know my explanation was a little facile and you could go further with it, but it's good enough for our purposes I feel. Anyway, really looking forward to the game, enjoy!
I agree with you everyone should stop complaining, but not necessarily. The problem is that everyone seems to be reiterating the same common complaints that have come up since this games inception. The art value we can argue about because you can see screen shots, but game play and mechanics are entirely theoretical until we've played the game. It's saying you hate the beach when you've never taken a trip there and experienced planting your feet in the sand for the first time.
The only good reasons not to buy the game is their austere DRM(online only), I can see why people would ostensibly against that idea. Or if you've played Diablo before, and didn't like it. That sounds insane to me because I love diablo, but games are tasted based, just like books, movies, music, art, ect. I never play on playing Black Ops or Modern Warfare 3, but I have tons of friends that love those games, and I'm all for them enjoying themselves.
Krenum
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Ok so I just read that if your internet connection goes out during play, you are automatically dropped from the server.....
We'll see Blizzard ....We will see -_-
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PornoSatan
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Yeah but most of that stuff is still in the game, or stayed in for a significant time. The gloams still hurt like hell due to a bug, the tomb viper poison javelin bug still hurts, Act 4 Iron Maiden was in the game until a patch or two ago. Mana burn still rapes your mana pool due to a coding error that makes you lose 256 times more mana than you're supposed to. The Multishot Lightning uniques were to be feared, the fire enchanted bug was feared, etc. but those were fixed.
Notice how it was all the "bugs" that made the game dramatic. I agree it probably won't be like that any longer, but we can't deny part of what made the older games such classics was partly due to developer naivety and inexperience. Bunny hopping / strafe jumping in Quake were also originally "bugs", but kept in because they added a layer of complexity.
And as far as Diablo 3 goes, it depends on how hard Inferno difficulty actually is, that's what it boils down to. And as mentioned before, the fact that you can't insta-leave WILL make it more dramatic, but mostly for Hardcore. Softcore people will just die and respawn like nothing ever happened.
I do know one thing, I'm gonna love Diablo 3.
couldn't this just be the fact that as gamers, we are sort of desensitized to many horror or scary elements in games? while i'm not disagreeing about the differences in art style and color choices possibly creating some of the negative criticism or worries of diablo 1 and 2 fans, i believe that a lot of that "OH FUCK'" feeling you're talking about could have just been a direct result of never having played something like it before. diablo was a first of it's kind, right? i think that if somehow, you could somehow send diablo 3 back in time to take diablo 1's place (of course in a graphically dumbed down form to fit with the time period technologically), you probably would still have those "OH FUCK" moments, and possibly even MORE. you have to consider how old you were when you played diablo. that's definitely a factor.
also, who knows what we'll be seeing in later levels? i'm in the beta, and what they show us is pretty damn short. it's pretty damn awesome to me though. i can't wait to see what else will be in the full version.
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I highly doubt that, the kind of fear the Butcher instilled in you is sort of like that which Amnesia leaves you with. Diablo 3 will NEVER scare you, it's not made to. It is being made to cash in on the genre.
diablo II and LOD were classics and great graphics for their time.
best game play and spells/skills that are still awesome.
Really after seeing III I wish someone would have just redone II with upgraded graphics.
III just doesn't look that good. Game play, classes and spell graphics.
Looks like a console game.
I bet we will see that sooner they you can say money.
best game play and spells/skills that are still awesome.
Really after seeing III I wish someone would have just redone II with upgraded graphics.
III just doesn't look that good. Game play, classes and spell graphics.
Looks like a console game.
I bet we will see that sooner they you can say money.