Elder Scrolls V is coming !

[limitedaccess]

Not sure exactl how the ID tech 5 will pan out (if it's used, i'm sure they said they weren't using it for oblivion). But anyway, the mega textures are not on ingame objects like the characters and objects. So neither of those will be effected. Remember the ID pretty much invented modding, so will probably have a quite obvious route to add your own junk to it. Like ID tech 1 2 3 and 4. It will probably come with modding tools or similar. Both bestheda and ID are known for their mod friendlyness, so hopefully that is a good sign.

The megatextures, though for the whole level, might allow supplimentary textures for add-ons. It doesnt hold the entire texture (several GB) in memory at the same time, it streams off disk. So that might allow you to add new areas, with new texturing, or have sub levels within the level (like indoor parts, tunnels) that use their own textures and only add the doors to the game grid. Or if you wanted a new building add it as an ingame object ontop of what is already there.

I'm not saying iD tech is a bad game engine, how it does things has a lot of advantages. One being mega texturing from what I understand theoretically allows much more detailed textures over game worlds given the same memory requirements, one can obviously see how this is a major advantage since iD is pushing to expand to consoles and mobile devices (more memory limited). But one of the tradeoffs from what I've read (even in interviews with the devs) is there might be limitations in terms of modding.

that gta engine is pretty epic, dynamic animations through euphoria and the lighting system is truley standout being able to stay dynamic on such a wide scale you should be grateful you even get 40 fps in that situation, I think making proper NPCs in that is very possible it just dosnt suit GTAs context.

but fuck they could at least add proper lighting to the gamebyro engine, a much more dynamic system and i could stomach another gamebyro for the time being

The graphics was not what I was referring to. A lot of people have issues with Oblivion (FO and etc.) having broken game play due to scripting issues. The reason this happens if you think about is how open the actual game world is. Take GTA 4 for instance, while the game environment is open, the actual game play is it? Each mission and story segment is fairly closed off, in that they do not intersect/interact with one another. Basically they each take place in there own closed box essentially. This why I brought up Stalker, another game series that is somewhat open in the same way, and it also has scripting issues with the missions/npcs/quests. All these issues are then compounded since the game has to handle third party content.

For everyone else if you notice some of the points actually being brought up in this thread, you will see why leaving the game open to modding is actually the best solution. Different people have differing opinions on various game play elements (example: fast travel), all of which right now are highly customizable to taste. How many other games can you think of like this?

I suppose my main point is there is more to consider from a game engine from a development and end product stand point then what will make the game look the best on high end systems. You can infer this obviously by how not everyone is simply rushing to license Cryengine 2 and the 4A engine (Metro 2033).

 

[Kaldskryke]

I'm not saying iD tech is a bad game engine, how it does things has a lot of advantages. One being mega texturing from what I understand theoretically allows much more detailed textures over game worlds given the same memory requirements, one can obviously see how this is a major advantage since iD is pushing to expand to consoles and mobile devices (more memory limited). But one of the tradeoffs from what I've read (even in interviews with the devs) is there might be limitations in terms of modding.

One of the most interesting parts about MegaTexture is that it allows for surfaces to be given unique textures. Instead of relying on generic "grass" or "stone" textures that tile infinitely, an artist can paint an area with unique details at no additional cost. Perhaps Bethesda is planning a game world that is too big to feasibly pay attention to every nook and cranny.

Also, id is all lowercase.

 

[phide]

Perhaps Bethesda is planning a game world that is too big to feasibly pay attention to every nook and cranny.

Considering about 1-2% of the hand-placed rocks in Oblivion float above the ground, this isn't actually all that unlikely.

 

[FrozenLiquidity]

Then there are a zillion other games to buy for that. Multiplayer destroys the single player experience.

Yes, similar to how System Shock 2's Co-op completely ruined the single player game. /sarcasm

I don't think anyone here is asking for L4D style coop. The ES series has had a fantastically strong single player component and I don't think anyone wants to see that go away. All we're looking for is a way for a friend or two to join us on our dungeon dragging adventures. Other games have maintained a very strong single-player game while allowing for this, and I cannot see why ES could not do the same. As for the "zillions" of other games, point to one that offers the kind of experience and detail that Oblivion provided? I can't think of any that come close.

 

[Wizardhawk]

A big part of the reason why they can get such detail and experience in TES is because that's what they dedicate all of their resources to. They spend their efforts on building a good story, and creating a world that flows (even if it's not as rich/full as some people want it to be). If they have to spend a bunch of time/effort/money on developing a multiplayer/co-op system for it, that's going to inevitably detract from other areas of the game.

 

[Parmenides]

Get rid of scaling, add unique items, remove fast travel(replace with mark and recall),and get rid of that damned quest compass.

Mods shouldn't be necessary to fix games, but you can mod all that in Oblivion FYI

A big part of the reason why they can get such detail and experience in TES is because that's what they dedicate all of their resources to. They spend their efforts on building a good story, and creating a world that flows (even if it's not as rich/full as some people want it to be). If they have to spend a bunch of time/effort/money on developing a multiplayer/co-op system for it, that's going to inevitably detract from other areas of the game.

Much agreed. Especially since it's an open world. Though many people will say the story wasn't that great, what is great and extensive is the lore inside the world of Tamriel. I'd say Bioware and Obsidian are better at story writing, but Tamriel has lore richer than probably any other modern game.

 

[Shalafi]

Morrowwind had a superior story to Oblivion, and it also had a better game world, imo, only the graphics and the Dark Brotherhood/thieves guild questlines made Oblivion better than Morrowwind.

I'd LOVE an Oblivion engine overhaul of Morrowwind, that'd be definitely one of my top 5 gaming experiences.

 

[Parmenides]

Morrowwind had a superior story to Oblivion, and it also had a better game world, imo, only the graphics and the Dark Brotherhood/thieves guild questlines made Oblivion better than Morrowwind.

I'd LOVE an Oblivion engine overhaul of Morrowwind, that'd be definitely one of my top 5 gaming experiences.

Look at this

 

[merlin704]

Yes, similar to how System Shock 2's Co-op completely ruined the single player game. /sarcasm

I don't think anyone here is asking for L4D style coop. The ES series has had a fantastically strong single player component and I don't think anyone wants to see that go away. All we're looking for is a way for a friend or two to join us on our dungeon dragging adventures. Other games have maintained a very strong single-player game while allowing for this, and I cannot see why ES could not do the same. As for the "zillions" of other games, point to one that offers the kind of experience and detail that Oblivion provided? I can't think of any that come close.

Agreed++

I want to be able to play the next iteration with my brother in co-op.

 

[Q-BZ]

Yes, similar to how System Shock 2's Co-op completely ruined the single player game. /sarcasm

I don't think anyone here is asking for L4D style coop. The ES series has had a fantastically strong single player component and I don't think anyone wants to see that go away. All we're looking for is a way for a friend or two to join us on our dungeon dragging adventures. Other games have maintained a very strong single-player game while allowing for this, and I cannot see why ES could not do the same. As for the "zillions" of other games, point to one that offers the kind of experience and detail that Oblivion provided? I can't think of any that come close.

Problem: This day and age is very different from the day and age SS2 was made in.


And you're also talking about a game that was a dedicated PC only game vs today's scenario where we're talking about multiplatform console ports and titles developed with the consoles in mind first and all that goes with that.



I think we all know that if they try to both an SP and MP component for this that it will be a situation where corners get cut and the entire product suffers for it.

So given that, I'd rather have them concentrate on making a great SP experience since that's what this series has always been all about.

Co-op would certainly be great. I just don't have much confidence in any publisher or developer in today's age giving us both amazing SP and amazing MP at the same time. It just doesn't happen anymore. Something always get sacrificed and a corner gets cut for the sake of something else.

 

[Parmenides]

^ nicely said

 

[eggrock]

I'm in the same camp as those who simultaneously anticipate and dread playing this game. I enjoyed Morrowind, Oblivion and FO3 to the tune of several hundred hours each but I also recall the many annoyances all of the games offered.

I had been holding off on FO:NV for this very reason but it seemed like people enjoyed it, so yesterday I installed FO3 again to get myself back into the groove. Ugh, spongy movement, horrible animation, consolized menus--ugh.

So do I get the same with TES V? A horrible character scripting system that leads to guards slaughtering townspeople, interrupting their scintillating description of the latest mudcrab sighting? The genericized world that breaks one way or another as your level increases past a certain point? The bad menus/animations/inventory/fedex quests--ugh.

On the other hand it's a given that there will be a beautiful world of some sort packed with a shitton of side quests and interesting places to explore, something worth playing. I really, really hope the engine is better.

 

[Q-BZ]

I had been holding off on FO:NV for this very reason but it seemed like people enjoyed it, so yesterday I installed FO3 again to get myself back into the groove. Ugh, spongy movement, horrible animation, consolized menus--ugh.

Good news: Mods already fix a lot of this. Hit the Fallout Nexus and just skim the top 25 downloads right now and just a handful of those go miles right off the bat.

Same goes for Fallout 3 and Oblivion. The Nexus sites are invaluable.

So do I get the same with TES V? A horrible character scripting system that leads to guards slaughtering townspeople, interrupting their scintillating description of the latest mudcrab sighting? The genericized world that breaks one way or another as your level increases past a certain point? The bad menus/animations/inventory/fedex quests--ugh.

More than likely, yes, mostly for the reasons I outlined in my previous post.

That being said: Somehow they're all really fun games to play and New Vegas is a blast. But yes, it is what it is.

The good news on the PC side again: User mods can save it at least to a point.

All of those games are considerably better post mods vs when they first came out.

On the other hand it's a given that there will be a beautiful world of some sort packed with a shitton of side quests and interesting places to explore, something worth playing. I really, really hope the engine is better.

I think we all agree on this at least.

I really wish they'd reach back and give us the best elements from Daggerfall and Morrowind and buff it up for the new tech and really give us something. I'm not knocking Oblivion, but it did take a backwards step in several areas vs its predecessors.

 

[Acoustique]

Morrowwind had a superior story to Oblivion, and it also had a better game world, imo, only the graphics and the Dark Brotherhood/thieves guild questlines made Oblivion better than Morrowwind.

I'd LOVE an Oblivion engine overhaul of Morrowwind, that'd be definitely one of my top 5 gaming experiences.

i liked morrowind more too, altho i found it rather unrewarding, and i found oblivion far too rewarding

balancing, yet another thing beth needs to work on

 

[vjcsmoke]

I hope the character models are a lot prettier. Oblivion had some of the UGLIEST facial models I've ever seen. Take a normal human, warp their face to troll like ugliness, then knock out some teeth and you'd have a typical Oblivion Breton character model.

 

[Bisectors Fore]

Oblivion was fun, the only part I didn't like was how progress in your characters level and stats meant basically nothing. The monsters ended up getting so difficult to kill it felt like my character was strongest in the middle of the game. I don't know about you, but I like the idea of areas being higher level, not every area in the game getting more difficult as your character increases. If I go back to an early part of the game, I should be able to kill everything with ease. The whole level adaptation thing made no sense to me really. Having said that, I still completed everything in the entire game, didn't play the expansion though.

QFT. Pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell.

 

[Parmenides]

One thing I'm sure of, is that the level scaling in TES V won't be as bad as Oblivion's. Bethseda did take notice of that complaint and made things better in Fallout 3.

 

[Derangel]

I hope the character models are a lot prettier. Oblivion had some of the UGLIEST facial models I've ever seen. Take a normal human, warp their face to troll like ugliness, then knock out some teeth and you'd have a typical Oblivion Breton character model.

Don't count on it. Same engine and all.

 

[Kaldskryke]

It wasn't impossible to have good-looking faces in Oblivion, but it definitely took a bit of skill and patience. Bethesda didn't do a very good job with the NPCs (perhaps because there are so many?) but there are some rather stunning player faces available to download. Replacing the facial textures helped a lot too, especially the normal maps, since the originals were low res consolitis crap.

Honestly, after playing Oblivion with higher resolution textures, depth of field, motion blur, ambient occlusion, color grading, and shadows applied to more objects the gamebryo engine doesn't look nearly so dated. I think many of you are underestimating what an updated version Gamebryo could look like.

 

[Derangel]

It wasn't impossible to have good-looking faces in Oblivion, but it definitely took a bit of skill and patience. Bethesda didn't do a very good job with the NPCs (perhaps because there are so many?) but there are some rather stunning player faces available to download. Replacing the facial textures helped a lot too, especially the normal maps, since the originals were low res consolitis crap.

Honestly, after playing Oblivion with higher resolution textures, depth of field, motion blur, ambient occlusion, color grading, and shadows applied to more objects the gamebryo engine doesn't look nearly so dated. I think many of you are underestimating what an updated version Gamebryo could look like.

Its not an updated version of Gamebryo though. Its a modified version of FO3's Gamebryo which itself was a modified version of Oblivion's engine. Its not a modern version of the engine. The latest (and possibly last) version added DX11 support and effects. The version Bethesda is using is DX9.0c. And what modders did to make the game look better was add in features that weren't present in the engine. Could Bethesda add all of that to this updated FO3 engine? Possibly. Will they? Don't count on it. Its going to be made with consoles in mind first off and the PC as a secondary platform.

 

[Q-BZ]

Its going to be made with consoles in mind first off and the PC as a secondary platform.

Exactly.

And that's why folks need to keep their expectations realistic here: It's going to be an Xbox 360 game with some shinier graphics. Take it for what it's worth.

Look at this

I can't believe I didn't know about this until now.

Looks like I'll be revisiting Morrowind in my near future.

 

[requiem99]

Morroblivion, like multiplayer Oblivion, is a concept that will never come to fruition as a finished project. Ever. And you can quote me. There are too many problems in recreating the world (you can't just port it), far too much work to do it right, and far too few people interested for it to ever happen. Not to mention the fact that Bethesda will drop the hammer on it long before it ever reaches completion. They've already done it once as a hint, so don't let the FAQ nonsense about "licensing issues" fool you. Bethesda will never allow Morrowind to be remade with the Oblivion engine.

Essentially, we let folks mod our games like Morrowind or Oblivion, but we don’t allow for folks to take content from another game and put it into a new game – even if they own both copies, and even if it's one of our own games.

This covers recreating identical content from scratch, so forget about this, as cool as it is.

 

[Nightbird]

Is there a trailer out or anything? Or did they just start this game and it will be out in 3 years? I loved Oblivion and Fallout3, so I hope it'll be out next year.

 

[Q-BZ]

Morroblivion, like multiplayer Oblivion, is a concept that will never come to fruition as a finished project. Ever. And you can quote me. There are too many problems in recreating the world (you can't just port it), far too much work to do it right, and far too few people interested for it to ever happen. Not to mention the fact that Bethesda will drop the hammer on it long before it ever reaches completion. They've already done it once as a hint, so don't let the FAQ nonsense about "licensing issues" fool you. Bethesda will never allow Morrowind to be remade with the Oblivion engine.



This covers recreating identical content from scratch, so forget about this, as cool as it is.

I suspect you're right.

 

[sculelos]

Is there a trailer out or anything? Or did they just start this game and it will be out in 3 years? I loved Oblivion and Fallout3, so I hope it'll be out next year.

From what I remember reading 90+ people have been working on the game for over two years now so they should have a substantial amount of stuff done.

I just hope the setting is a little more interesting then Forrest, I loved Morrowind for it's variety Oblivion was a little less interesting to me.

 

[Q-BZ]

From what I remember reading 90+ people have been working on the game for over two years now so they should have a substantial amount of stuff done.

I just hope the setting is a little more interesting then Forrest, I loved Morrowind for it's variety Oblivion was a little less interesting to me.

I'll never forget when I first played Morrowind and what a diverse and immersive world it was. Downright overwhelming.


And the first time I ran into some of the unique animals and other creatures...seeing and hearing a Silt Strider for the first time. All kinds of moments like that.

Oblivion is definitely a good game in its own right and I put a ton of hours into it but it just didn't have the same depth, complexity, variety and overall "richness" in a number of ways like Morrowind did.

The attention to even nitpicky details is astonishing in Morrowind.

 

[ScottALot]

Best news I've heard other than no doubt of a Borderlands sequel.

 

[fullvietFX]

Oblivion was fun, the only part I didn't like was how progress in your characters level and stats meant basically nothing. The monsters ended up getting so difficult to kill it felt like my character was strongest in the middle of the game. I don't know about you, but I like the idea of areas being higher level, not every area in the game getting more difficult as your character increases. If I go back to an early part of the game, I should be able to kill everything with ease. The whole level adaptation thing made no sense to me really. Having said that, I still completed everything in the entire game, didn't play the expansion though.

I totally agree, if they do this again I'm not playing.

 

[Parmenides]

Is there a trailer out or anything? Or did they just start this game and it will be out in 3 years? I loved Oblivion and Fallout3, so I hope it'll be out next year.

Bethseda stated that they are keeping development in secret for much longer than any of their other games thus far. Right now, they are comfortably along in progress that they could easily show a trailer but they are not. They are planning to have very short time between when the game is revealed to when it's released.

I totally agree, if they do this again I'm not playing.

What if it was a quick easy mod to fix it?

 

[ITSTHINKING]

This sucks. This should not count as tes5. New engine plz, and stop with the console cocksucking bethsoft. PC Morrowind (even vanilla) is much better than this gamebryo engine crap.

 

[Derangel]

This sucks. This should not count as tes5. New engine plz, and stop with the console cocksucking bethsoft. PC Morrowind (even vanilla) is much better than this gamebryo engine crap.

Morrowind was Gamebyro dude.

 

[Kaldskryke]

Its not an updated version of Gamebryo though. Its a modified version of FO3's Gamebryo which itself was a modified version of Oblivion's engine. Its not a modern version of the engine. The latest (and possibly last) version added DX11 support and effects. The version Bethesda is using is DX9.0c. And what modders did to make the game look better was add in features that weren't present in the engine. Could Bethesda add all of that to this updated FO3 engine? Possibly. Will they? Don't count on it. Its going to be made with consoles in mind first off and the PC as a secondary platform.

The mods didn't add "features" not present in the engine... they added straight-from-the-textbook DX9 shaders. Bethesda could easily add everything that the OBGE project has achieved. And what's the use of switching to a DX11 version of Gamebryo when they are (again) developing for consoles?

I'm not saying that Gamebryo is awesome or that Bethesda shouldn't switch engines. I'm just saying it's absolutely feasible to get Gamebryo to look modern and fit in with today's run-of-the-mill console games should Bethesda actually want to.

I guess it depends how far away TESV is from release. If they are going to launch on today's consoles I think Gamebryo could be adequate albeit not spectacular. If they are aiming for next-gen consoles, however, they need to find a more forward looking engine if they don't want to look dated.

 

[Derangel]

The mods didn't add "features" not present in the engine... they added straight-from-the-textbook DX9 shaders. Bethesda could easily add everything that the OBGE project has achieved. And what's the use of switching to a DX11 version of Gamebryo when they are (again) developing for consoles?

I'm not saying that Gamebryo is awesome or that Bethesda shouldn't switch engines. I'm just saying it's absolutely feasible to get Gamebryo to look modern and fit in with today's run-of-the-mill console games should Bethesda actually want to.

I guess it depends how far away TESV is from release. If they are going to launch on today's consoles I think Gamebryo could be adequate albeit not spectacular. If they are aiming for next-gen consoles, however, they need to find a more forward looking engine if they don't want to look dated.

Uhh....Thanks for that first paragraph which repeated some of what I already said.

I'm sure Bethesda is going to aim for next year or 2012 at the latest, still within this generation of consoles. Unless a new generation is going to start in 2012 and they want to have TESV be a launch or launch window title for one of them. But somewhere in this topic someone posted a link where Bethesda said it was a modified version of FO3's Gamebryo engine.

 

[limitedaccess]

Morrowind was Gamebyro dude.

It was also on console.

I'm wondering if people realize a lot of the complaints being leveled here has nothing to little direct relation with the engine used. In fact how most of those complaints are addressable in mods (that work with each other) is more of a testament to how versatile/robust the game engine is if anything.

 

[Derangel]

It was also on console.

I'm wondering if people realize a lot of the complaints being leveled here has nothing to little direct relation with the engine used. In fact how most of those complaints are addressable in mods (that work with each other) is more of a testament to how versatile/robust the game engine is if anything.

Morrowind was ported to consoles after the PC version came out. Oblivion was a console game that was ported to the PC.

 

[Q-BZ]

Morrowind was ported to consoles after the PC version came out. Oblivion was a console game that was ported to the PC.

Made all the difference in the world.

 

[Nightbird]

Bethseda stated that they are keeping development in secret for much longer than any of their other games thus far. Right now, they are comfortably along in progress that they could easily show a trailer but they are not. They are planning to have very short time between when the game is revealed to when it's released.

Does this current news count as a "reveal" or do you mean for when the first trailer arrives?

Regardless, this is good news

 

[Joeshmofro]

YES!!! I hope the enemies in V won't progress as you do. That was annoying.

 

[Parmenides]

It was also on console.

I'm wondering if people realize a lot of the complaints being leveled here has nothing to little direct relation with the engine used. In fact how most of those complaints are addressable in mods (that work with each other) is more of a testament to how versatile/robust the game engine is if anything.

I don't care for gamebryo and would like to see a new engine, but I agree that 90% of complaints here aren't complaints against gamebryo, but complaints against Bethseda's designer team.

Gamebryo can be faulted for stutter and general instability. Though we really don't know who was more at fault with even that. I haven't played gamebryo outside of Bethseda, what are the other games like?

Here's to hoping that if this is indeed gamebryo, then this release won't be nearly as bad as what people expect from the engine.

Morrowind was ported to consoles after the PC version came out. Oblivion was a console game that was ported to the PC.

That's how things are supposed to be done.

Does this current news count as a "reveal" or do you mean for when the first trailer arrives?

Regardless, this is good news

No, it wasn't a reveal, TES wasn't mentioned by name. Here you go.

 

[Derangel]

I don't care for gamebryo and would like to see a new engine, but I agree that 90% of complaints here aren't complaints against gamebryo, but complaints against Bethseda's designer team.

Gamebryo can be faulted for stutter and general instability. Though we really don't know who was more at fault with even that. I haven't played gamebryo outside of Bethseda, what are the other games like?

I've never been able to find a full list of games that use Gamebryo, but Civ IV and DAOC both used it. Can't speak for DAOC but CivIV worked well, not that it really pushed the engine.