Swastikas Get You Banned From Xbox Live

If I were Microsoft I'd ban Crosses as well, as they were related to millions of deaths as well over the years.
 
It's a private service, so it's their rules. They can ban, or allow what they want.

However, freedom of speech should be just that. Not this freedom of speech, only if we agree with the message, BS prevalent today. Just cause you don't like it does not mean nobody should be allowed to say it. That is one of the issues with free speech, crap, comes out as often as gold or anything in between.
 
GORANKAR said:
It's a private service, so it's their rules. They can ban, or allow what they want.

However, freedom of speech should be just that. Not this freedom of speech, only if we agree with the message, BS prevalent today. Just cause you don't like it does not mean nobody should be allowed to say it. That is one of the issues with free speech, crap, comes out as often as gold or anything in between.
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Freedom of speech has no place here. Xbox Live is a private entity and they can do what they like. We are still free to fly even twisted swastika at the Capitol Hill during demonstrations if we wish. That's freedom of speech.
 
Tolyngee said:
In 2002 I was asked by a person who wears a cross every day during work to stop wearing a black trenchcoat at all even just to work (never mind during work) because of two kids in Columbine 3.5 years earlier in 1999. I was told it gives me a "Mafia" appearance.

It was really, really difficult to bite my tongue.
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Unless they were your supervisor/boss, I'd laugh in their face. And if they did fire you for it? Wouldn't be too hard to sue them silly.
 
Azhar said:
Freedom of speech has no place here. Xbox Live is a private entity and they can do what they like. We are still free to fly even twisted swastika at the Capitol Hill during demonstrations if we wish. That's freedom of speech.
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Freedom of speech is very relevant to this. Clearly a private service can do whatever it wants with regards to censoring speech within the service. But as consumers who feel strongly about respecting their right to free speech, making that opinion known to these services is vital.

You can vote with your money or you can speak out (while getting your game on? :)).
 
If you get banned from Xbox, do you at least get your $ back (pro-rated, of course)? :confused:
 
what about us buddhists and hindus?

are crosses banned too?

why not just ban the nazi propaganda only? there is a major difference.
 
When antisemites choose to defile a cemetery or synagogue, they do so by scribing a variety of epithets and of course swatikas.

Context, gentlemen. If a Hindu or Sikh were adored with said symbol, it would be a protection sigil. I would think that a reasonable person could understand that a Caucasian brandishing a Swastika ( or a muddled version, depending on intelligence), it is out of antisemetic defiance.

imho, of course
 
ecuador said:
You know, there are worse (or at least comparable) things to Nazism, yet I don't see their (pre-existing) symbols becoming such taboos. For example take the one that nobody expects... The Spanish Inquisition! Their main symbol was the cross, perhaps we should ban crosses?

P.S. In case you didn't get the nobody expects reference: monty python
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Well the obvious difference there is the Spanish Inquisition ended in the 1800s and had already been largely dead for quite some time prior to that. I think time has healed that wound. Nazi Germany fell in the 1940s. There are still people alive who remember the horrors of the Nazis.


Not saying you are 100% wrong or anything, just saying thats different. Either way it is a service Microsoft provides. They are free to boot whoever. I can't think of any reasons for wanting a swastika as your profile picture. In fact one should probably expect to get banned for doing something like that.
 
tinsoldier said:
Freedom of speech is very relevant to this. Clearly a private service can do whatever it wants with regards to censoring speech within the service. But as consumers who feel strongly about respecting their right to free speech, making that opinion known to these services is vital.

You can vote with your money or you can speak out (while getting your game on? :)).
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That has nothing to do with free speech and democracy and everything to do with capitalism. Not the same thing.
 
Well I think the Nazis sort of fucked up the swastika for everyone, now didn't they? Xbox Live is a service/business, and no business is going to want stuff like that which may very well greatly offend people. All the garbage that can't be caught on a constant basis aside - MS made the right choice. Something as obviously offensive as a swastika has every right to be banned.
 
The only thing I take offense to is the fact that everyone and their mother is on this "need to be offensive to be cool/funny" shtick. FRED is fucking cooler than that, and I fucking HATE Fred!!!!

You are not Howard Stern. You will never be George Carlin's replacement. You won't even measure up to Carlos Mencia. Don't even think about Lewis Black or Louis CK. STOP TRYING.
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
The only thing I take offense to is the fact that everyone and their mother is on this "need to be offensive to be cool/funny" shtick. FRED is fucking cooler than that, and I fucking HATE Fred!!!!

You are not Howard Stern. You will never be George Carlin's replacement. You won't even measure up to Carlos Mencia. Don't even think about Lewis Black or Louis CK. STOP TRYING.
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No one can do that finger wag but the Black man.
 
Are you people really trying to defend Nazis by comparing them to Buddhists?
Go read a book!

As far as the Spanish Inquisition reference, interesting, but people do not commit violent crimes in the name of the Spanish Inquisition today. Christianity, yes.
The difference is Nazis are a group of hate, while Christianity is a global religion.
 
I think the swastika will become acceptable in Western society just about the same time "gay" becomes an common synonym for "happy" again.

Connotations trump etiology.
 
Azhar said:
Freedom of speech has no place here. Xbox Live is a private entity and they can do what they like. We are still free to fly even twisted swastika at the Capitol Hill during demonstrations if we wish. That's freedom of speech.

Azhar said:
That has nothing to do with free speech and democracy and everything to do with capitalism. Not the same thing.
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word. Pretty much enough said.

NKDietrich said:
The SS "lightning" logo is still fine however, apparently.
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Well lets face it, one symbol is soooo much more prominate symbol of hate. Most people if you picture "Nazi symbol" are going to picture the swastika more. And most people aren't educated/aware of the "other crooked cross"
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Dekoth-E- said:
Part of me wants to call this bs censorship..The other part of me realizes that the only ones using it are doing so to be douchebags and not for some "Higher intelligence" reason. That and honestly it is a private service, so more power to whatever decision they want to stick with.
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This. While it's censorship, so is getting banned from a forum for trolling. I'd bet most people rocking the swastika are trying to get a rise out of people with trolling. I say ban them, no one would appreciate someone having a KKK avatar, why should they be allowed to have a swastika?
 
El Sucio said:
This. While it's censorship, so is getting banned from a forum for trolling. I'd bet most people rocking the swastika are trying to get a rise out of people with trolling. I say ban them, no one would appreciate someone having a KKK avatar, why should they be allowed to have a swastika?
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As mentioned in many posts here, a swastika is not a Nazi symbol, where a KKK avatar is a symbol of hate. That's the rub. Lack of education should not be grounds for banning a non-offensive symbol.
 
Honestly who gives a shit. Its a private service and they can operate it as they wish. Half the crap in Xbox Live is just tards raging but yes lets make a stand in this service. Cry my a river, waste of time.
 
honestly, I don't see what the big deal is, if someone wants to identify themself as a Nazi, why should I care?
 
Azhar said:
As mentioned in many posts here, a swastika is not a Nazi symbol, where a KKK avatar is a symbol of hate. That's the rub. Lack of education should not be grounds for banning a non-offensive symbol.
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So you're saying when you see that symbol, you think of religion? I highly doubt that's what most people see when they see it, and I highly doubt that's what those people mean by having that.
 
El Sucio said:
So you're saying when you see that symbol, you think of religion? I highly doubt that's what most people see when they see it, and I highly doubt that's what those people mean by having that.
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So what you're saying is it's ok to ban anything and everything because people are too stupid to know the difference between right and wrong? Nanny state much?
 
Azhar said:
So what you're saying is it's ok to ban anything and everything because people are too stupid to know the difference between right and wrong? Nanny state much?
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I don't really care that much, I'm just saying I get people getting banned for having that. It's pretty clear that a swastika avatar on XBL is just to stir shit up, not because of some Native American or Buddhist religious symbol.

In fact, I played on XBL last night with some dude with a swastika avatar and didn't report him or anything. I'm just saying it's understandable for them to get banned for it.
 
It was always funny to me that my grandma (RIP) had a swastika tattooed on her hand, between her thumb and index finger. I can remember asking my parents "Why does Mola (grandmother in Tibetan) have a nazi symbol on her hand?" Apparently it was a prominent symbol in Tibetan buddhism...but it definitely made my Jewish friends (who came to my house) do a double take lol.
 
soul555top said:
It was always funny to me that my grandma (RIP) had a swastika tattooed on her hand, between her thumb and index finger. I can remember asking my parents "Why does Mola (grandmother in Tibetan) have a nazi symbol on her hand?" Apparently it was a prominent symbol in Tibetan buddhism...but it definitely made my Jewish friends (who came to my house) do a double take lol.
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That's kinda badass that your grandma had a tattoo.
 
lol @ the irony of people crying freedom of speech
this is Microsoft's platform, they should be free to create whatever behavior standards they wish
 
El Sucio said:
I don't really care that much, I'm just saying I get people getting banned for having that. It's pretty clear that a swastika avatar on XBL is just to stir shit up, not because of some Native American or Buddhist religious symbol.

In fact, I played on XBL last night with some dude with a swastika avatar and didn't report him or anything. I'm just saying it's understandable for them to get banned for it.
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Stir what shit up? That war was over 65 years ago! The only people getting their panties in a bunch are people who whines for the stake of whining. Ban the Christian Cross! It symbolizes 100 years of wars between Europe and Jerusalem. It's a symbol of hate too, right?

What about the rising sun on the Japanese flag, even today? How come that didn't get changed? (Before anyone mentions the rays being removed, IIRC those were only on battle flags, not their national flag).

Ignorance is the defense of the weak mind. You should care.
 
Azhar said:
Stir what shit up? That war was over 65 years ago! The only people getting their panties in a bunch are people who whines for the stake of whining. Ban the Christian Cross! It symbolizes 100 years of wars between Europe and Jerusalem. It's a symbol of hate too, right?

What about the rising sun on the Japanese flag, even today? How come that didn't get changed? (Before anyone mentions the rays being removed, IIRC those were only on battle flags, not their national flag).

Ignorance is the defense of the weak mind. You should care.
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However the Swastika is still being utilized by hate groups and as an affront to Jewish people. Neither the crucifix nor the rising sun have the same stigma attached to them as symbols. Frankly, some people have little understanding of the power of certain symbols. Two words, with the "gg" in the middle have similar power to those who would be targeted by them. Nooses and Confederate flags can be quite inflammatory.

I well understand that symbols, in different contexts and times have different meanings. It is safe to say that if you are not of Near Eastern religious descent and you are presently using Swatikas as adornments, it is for shock value.... and you are likely displaying anti-Jewish sentiments.
 
For me this kind of talk comes back to the exact same thing every time.... Every single person here who thinks that the swastika should be so damn acceptable put your money where your mouth is and wear it to work every day, get it tattooed on your arm if you are into tattoos, use it, wear it, celebrate it, explain it, live it. If you aren't willing to do so, or do it but get scared or anxious when doing so, then you must acknowledge its true effective meaning these days, as a symbol of hatred and murder. If you still refuse to acknowledge this as REALITY you are just full of $hit.

It is easy to talk a big game, but you damn sure aren't about to live up to that talk are you?

As to the specific issue of its use on Xbox live, all arguments that don't acknowledge the fact that 99.99% of the people wanting to use this symbol are doing so either out of genuine hate or an attempt to get a rise out others, are inherently BS, and even you making these arguments know it.
 
zpackrat said:
And freedom of speech has nothing to do with common courtesy and respect.
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Do you even understand what the entire point of freedom of speech means? Heres a short and sweet breakdown to the entire purpose of freedom of speech:

You dont have to like it... or embrace it... but you do have to respect it...

Your comment is completely meaningless...Courtesy? Respect? I think you should be courteous to free speech... and respect others free speech... not just your own twisted ideals...or where does courtesy and respect even factor in to anything that you say?
 
Noetic said:
However the Swastika is still being utilized by hate groups and as an affront to Jewish people. Neither the crucifix nor the rising sun have the same stigma attached to them as symbols. Frankly, some people have little understanding of the power of certain symbols. Two words, with the "gg" in the middle have similar power to those who would be targeted by them. Nooses and Confederate flags can be quite inflammatory.
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Who cares if someone is part of a hate group... honestly... do people really have no clue about free expression and speech? EVERYONE is allowed it... period... dont like anti black or anti jew groups... dont join them...dont read their literature or attend their meetings... there is a reason they arent "Illegal"...they are protected.. period... when will people grow up and stop trying to kill others guaranteed rights..just because they seem to think they are politically correct... which is the fucking opposite of free speech...and only makes the ignorant masses look even worse in their extreme views...
 
El Sucio said:
I don't really care that much, I'm just saying I get people getting banned for having that. It's pretty clear that a swastika avatar on XBL is just to stir shit up, not because of some Native American or Buddhist religious symbol.
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Not necessarily... im a huge military history buff...i just like a lot of these things... its my area of interest... its as simple as that... but then again... im not stupid enough to use XBOX LIVE anyway... all they do is sell your personal data and tell you what you can or cannot do with your property...thats hardly anything that would embrace free speech to begin with...more like a suckers haven...
 
SS_Wehrwolf said:
Who cares if someone is part of a hate group... honestly... do people really have no clue about free expression and speech? EVERYONE is allowed it... period... dont like anti black or anti jew groups... dont join them...dont read their literature or attend their meetings... there is a reason they arent "Illegal"...they are protected.. period... when will people grow up and stop trying to kill others guaranteed rights..just because they seem to think they are politically correct... which is the fucking opposite of free speech...and only makes the ignorant masses look even worse in their extreme views...
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Who cares? Interesting question. "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer". Without vigilance, hate groups can coalesce, and become embolden to act upon their sentiments. They are not protected. Quite the contrary, their organizations and memberships are heavily scrutinized.
What people say can have consequences. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater or spur a group into violent action. This is common sense.
While Political Correctness has take courtesy and pressed it to an occasional ludicrous extreme, it is NOT the opposite of free speech. Basically, PC is not what is said, but where.
The "ignorant masses" you spoke of, have long been tired of PC.
 
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