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How is keyboard and mouse better vs. controller?
- Thread starter Robert_J
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Limp Gawd
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Dude, this is a forum. You are welcome to join in. Especially if you take my side.
QFT.
Thanks for proving the point that KB/M controls are unrealistic and joysticks/gamepads add to the realism (aka immersion) factor of the game.
How exactly is it unrealistic that a mouse/kb user can look in a direction in a fraction of a second and fire, there's nothing unrealistic about it. If you're holding a gun irl, you can easily point it 150 degree's to your right or left and pull off a shot in a fraction of a second. However that's not possible with a controller, there's considerably more time required in order to spin around and fire.
A mouse/kb is the closest to realism you're going to get, if you want to look in any direction at any time, you can.
You're right. A weapon has no weight, which relieves you and it of that nasty thing known as momentum (inertia). Oh wait...
There's no one in the world who can move, point, shoot and have as good aim as a nerdy KB/M fpser. Your body and things just can't operate like that in the real world.
KB/M=ezmode. plain and simple.
WhiteZero
2[H]4U
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Look up video of champion sharp shooters... I'd like to see anyone with a KB/M do as well as those guys virtually.
edifyingkarma
[H]ard|Gawd
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Thanks man,
Your posts are very entertaining. Your logic is sound. You have made me a believer. Keyboard and mouse is truly unrealistic. Pressurised joysticks to move the reticle is just way more immersive. You place pressure on the stick and it moves your reticle in the general direction of your thumb. It glides ever so realistically to its destination, just like a real life firearm. It is so clear to me now. What person would aim a firearm in real life. It must be linked to a general direction movement induced by pressure applied to the firearm. It then glides to the target where are a person pulls the trigger once the sights move over the target. That is how guns work in real life and that is why joysticks are more realistic. Why aim with a gun, or point with a mouse. Aiming is so unrealistic.
General direction joystick gliding aim for the WIN!
so better = ezmode, and nerdy now?
there's a reason devs have to get rid of recoil and aiming for controller versions, because thumbsticks can't handle these immersive mechanics. do you even know what inertia means? look it up.
thumbstick acceleration does not recreate this property any more accurately than a mouse, or any other input capable of moving your crosshairs/ironsights, it's just used to make the game playable with limited movement. if you really want to compare, thumbsticks would actually be the worst possible way to simulate inertia and momentum, since you're only using your thumbs, and your hands do not move at all.
you ever fire a gun with just your thumbs? why even bother
michael.pa2
2[H]4U
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The current quick draw record holder Bob Munden can draw his Colt .45 from his holster, cock the hammer and fire accurately at a target in less than 2/100ths of a second, or as fast as the blink of an eye.
a port to the computer? You could still use a controller on a computer..... i have one controller a wireless 360 controller only for my computer.. only to play dirt 2... other than that, regardless of it being an rts/fps/3rd person shooter (ie batman aa) I use kb/m. And nothing compares to using my kb/m (g5 mouse/ nostromo). It's flawless, comfortable, customizable and precise, something i can say for those types of games a controller is not... well maybe comfortable but total fail in everything else
You still have to aim with an aimbot. Most of the harder to detect aimbot wait until you at least get close to your target before they work like auto-aim for PC. So you still have to aim with an aimbot so my point still stands. Hardware or software hack you are still circumventing the system.
Do you think that if you showed up to a console tournament with your 'special' adapter and mouse/keyboard they would allow you to compete with that setup? Nope. You know why? Because it yields an unfair advantage that is not part of the system.
I can not help but wonder if this is the same logic that a person who does use aimbot would try to rationalize it because of lack of skill.
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You both are still using the same input.... a mouse. So no it would not be the same. It is like wearing a different pair of shoes to play football in than what everybody else is using. I am still wearing shoes just a different brand. Can you honestly not see how it is a huge advantage to use a mouse when everybody else is using a controller?
The PS3 allows game companies to program their game to use a mouse and only one game allows a mouse and that is UT3. No other game on the PS3 allows you to use a mouse without using a hardware hack. If the game allows it then there is no point for us to argue but they do not. You have to circumvent the system to get it to work which is cheating.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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Keyboards give you cancer.
Then consoles come pre-equipped with aimbots, by that definition, and so allowing PC users to use keyboard/mouse would just be leveling the playing field. Thanks.
(Edit: Speaking to cross-platform play here. Regardless, changing the game so that you do not have to aim(needing to get close != aiming, and there are plenty of aimbots you can use and that people do use which will snap your view 180 degrees to make a shot. If you use it that way you might get caught more easily, but they'll still do it.) is not the same as changing the input so you can more easily aim on your own.)
Your logic yet fails you again.... If the game was designed for everybody to play in 'slippery shoes' and you brought 'cheated shoes' then yes you would be cheating at the game for you own advantage. It is not a matter of bringing the right equipment it is a matter of playing the game the way it was designed and consoles are not designed for a mouse. Just like counter-strike is not designed for an aimbot and soccer is a game designed to not use your hands. It is just poor sportsmanship and you can try to rationalize it all you want but in the end it is cheating the system.
How is a mouse with auto-aim leveling the playing field? That is just plain ignorant if you really believe that is leveling the playing field. So allowing a console player who is less accurate with a mouse to use an aimbot (to help him auto-aim just like console of course) on a PC game then would be 'leveing the playing field' then right and you would have no problem with that?
It's dependent on the game itself for me.
Only exception to standards I've run into was Final Fantasy XI. MMOs typically are keyboard+mouse fare exclusively...but I've played FFXI for almost 8 years with controller in hand. The times I've tried to play with KB have been dismal at best. Chalk it up to menu driven command structure and having the heart of a PS2 game.
Only exception to standards I've run into was Final Fantasy XI. MMOs typically are keyboard+mouse fare exclusively...but I've played FFXI for almost 8 years with controller in hand. The times I've tried to play with KB have been dismal at best. Chalk it up to menu driven command structure and having the heart of a PS2 game.
I think you kind of misconstrued what i was trying to get at. I am not talking about realism, or immersion into a game. I'm talking about blatant preference. I prefer the keyboard and mouse because I suck using the Controller (which in turn kills the realism for me), so my preference would be to the mouse and keyboard. The inertia comment was a simple statement as to why i felt that way. You, on the other hand, favor the controller because in your experience it gives more realism. Im not trying to argue one side or another, im just saying "This is my opinion and why".
EDIT: Also, as for the earlier comment on my "Port to computer" comment, I meant using a keyboard and mouse for the game. Port was just a faster way to say it.
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Did you read my edit? That was related to cross-platform play. As for using a mouse adapter on a console, like other people have said it's not something other players can't get, so how is it any different than anything else that can improve your play? If I have to play on a 13" black and white TV should I make everyone else do so? Why do you get to play on a 50" screen while I'm stuck with a 13" screen? You're just a dirty cheater, that's why.
No I did not read your edit. There is only one game to my knowledge that did cross-platform play and that was shadowrun and it failed miserably. I do not know why you brought up cross-platform when hooking up an hardware adapter to a 360 is not cross-platform
Really? Consoles are DESIGNED to be hooked to TVs of all shapes and sizes. They are not designed to be used with a mouse and keyboard. Next.
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Keywords.... NOT IN GAMES...
Again using your same logic:
You can install software on a PC so installing an aimbot would be ok then since PCs are designed to have software installed on them.
I Concur.
MrGuvernment
Fully [H]
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Funny that after all the counter arguments everyone else came back with, this is the best reply you can come up with.....
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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Bioware says -
BioWare spoke with Computer and Video Games about the state of PC gaming, saying it continues to be their lead platform following what seems to be a mini-trend of vocal support for the PC as a gaming platform. "Every two or three years we hear the announcement of fantasy being dead, PC gaming being dead and RPGs being dead. And yet, all of the biggest games that ever come out - that set the records - are nearly always PC games, and a lot of them are fantasy games," says Bioware designer and writing director Daniel Erickson. "The biggest game in the world is a fantasy, PC, RPG MMO. We all know the drawbacks of PC. We all scream at our boxes and try to make stuff work. But at the same time, the interface is made for games. The mouse/keyboard interface allows so much less restriction [than console]." He concludes noting that this is not lip service, as they are walking the walk: "There was not a question when we started Old Republic - or any of our games, for that matter - [what the lead format would be]. There's a reason the lead SKU for Dragon age was [PC] as well. When we're developing an RPG, it's a natural place to be."
-posted on BluesNews
BioWare spoke with Computer and Video Games about the state of PC gaming, saying it continues to be their lead platform following what seems to be a mini-trend of vocal support for the PC as a gaming platform. "Every two or three years we hear the announcement of fantasy being dead, PC gaming being dead and RPGs being dead. And yet, all of the biggest games that ever come out - that set the records - are nearly always PC games, and a lot of them are fantasy games," says Bioware designer and writing director Daniel Erickson. "The biggest game in the world is a fantasy, PC, RPG MMO. We all know the drawbacks of PC. We all scream at our boxes and try to make stuff work. But at the same time, the interface is made for games. The mouse/keyboard interface allows so much less restriction [than console]." He concludes noting that this is not lip service, as they are walking the walk: "There was not a question when we started Old Republic - or any of our games, for that matter - [what the lead format would be]. There's a reason the lead SKU for Dragon age was [PC] as well. When we're developing an RPG, it's a natural place to be."
-posted on BluesNews
Except games often state explicitly that you can't use outside software to alter the game experience during online play. What's more, individual servers tend to have this rule as well.
Is there an explicit rule against using a keyboard/mouse adapter? Or is it just you complaining?
I prefer mouse and keyboard for first person shooters and RTS games. To me there is no other choice. For racing games I can honestly use either but prefer a controller because it allows me to sit back and relax. For fighting games a gamepad or joystick can't be beat.
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Limp Gawd
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Who here is complaining lol I am simply having a discussion about unauthorized hardware peripheral devices on consoles. Maybe you should look the definition up to learn the difference
Keyword: Unauthorized. This is what XIM360.com has to say about it on their FAQ:
"What about the console's security? Are you breaking it?
Nope. The XFPS did circumvent it, but the XIM 2 does not. By installing it inside the controller there's no need to since it is an authorized device."
GotNoRice
[H]F Junkie
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Don't really need to argue which is better.
Take pretty much any shooter game that allows use of both KB/M and a Controller. Watch as even noobs with the KB/M totally dominate veteran controller kids.
No one is going to try to claim it's easier to aim with a joystick than a mouse unless they are in hardcore denial.
Take pretty much any shooter game that allows use of both KB/M and a Controller. Watch as even noobs with the KB/M totally dominate veteran controller kids.
No one is going to try to claim it's easier to aim with a joystick than a mouse unless they are in hardcore denial.
lmfao.... the controller is the authorized device not the XIM 2. The old adapter was unauthorized and MS patched them not to work and so to get around that they are turning a controller into an adapter which in turn makes it harder to detect you are using an unauthorized mouse/keyboard. Not sure if you missed it or not from my above post but modify the 360 hardware is strictly prohibited that includes controllers. Just accept it.... it is cheating.
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Limp Gawd
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Microsoft is just trying to make more money (Yea Bill Gates, let's see if you can make it to twelve figures) by forcing people to buy all their Xbox 360 peripherals from them. I don't think the reason Microsoft makes those rules is to "level the playing field" as you put it, I think it is to protect their cashflow. It would be one thing if the game manufacturers put it in their manuals that using a keyboard and mouse was prohibited but they don't do that, do they?
It's a moot point for me because I don't use a console and I probably never will, but I still maintain the right of those who choose to use a console AND a KB/M to do so. Just accept it... it isn't cheating.
Microsoft is just trying to make more money (Yea Bill Gates, let's see if you can make it to twelve figures) by forcing people to buy all their Xbox 360 peripherals from them. I don't think the reason Microsoft makes those rules is to "level the playing field" as you put it, I think it is to protect their cashflow. It would be one thing if the game manufacturers put it in their manuals that using a keyboard and mouse was prohibited but they don't do that, do they?
It's a moot point for me because I don't use a console and I probably never will, but I still maintain the right of those who choose to use a console AND a KB/M to do so. Just accept it... it isn't cheating.
What you 'think' isn't a fact. You can think all you want how the sky is red but the fact of the matter is it is blue. Just like unauthorized devices are not allowed on a consoles. Trying to drag the game manuals into this argument it is such a laughable weak point that is leaning on just plain ignorance.... a lot of stuff is not listed in the manual... that is what the EULA is for which you accepted the rules when you signed up for online on a console. Keep trying buddy maybe you will find something that works.
Sure you can try to claim that it is your right just like someone who cheats on a PC game can make the same claim. Still does not make it right
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Limp Gawd
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I could rebuttal you again but what's the point? You will just be back with some other argument, or if you can't think of one you will play semantics with the wording of what I said or restate one of your previous arguments like you've been doing for the past several days on here. I'm not going to keep wasting my time, but I take solace in the knowledge that everyone else who has entered this discussion has agreed with me. If they want to keep arguing with you then I guess you're in luck. If not I guess you can always go aim at stuff with your controller or something. Personally I'll be using a mouse.