How is keyboard and mouse better vs. controller?

[noobman]

Obviously if you play with a controller for years and then try keyboard/mouse for the first time, you're going to find it awkward. I found playing FPSs on a controller awkward the first time I tried it, and in fact I still find it a little strange and foreign now.

I think the consensus is that, by nature of a mouse's function, it allows you to be more accurate... provided that you know how to use it properly.

 

[Spare-Flair]

Any kind of a game where you need to have precision aiming or selecting - a keyboard and mouse is always better.

For games where you generally only need to control the movement of a character or vehicle, a gamepad is better.

The worst part about a controller is the layout. You are relegated to controlling everything with basically only two thumbs having to access 9 buttons and two analog sticks and you are constantly moving these around. You get to use your index and middle fingers but only for triggers.. With a controller you are stuck with 2 fingers operating the majority of inputs including movement controls. With a keyboard and mouse, you utilize your entire left hand indepedant of your right hand. If you have enough buttons on your mouse, you can use all 10 fingers simultaneously and already in position.

 

[Decko87]

It depends on what you're playing, there's no real need for a debate on this it's kind of childish.

 

[Bisectors Fore]

Like most of the people on here, I prefer a keyboard and mouse setup over a console controller. Obviously it is a matter of preference, but you can get accustomed to playing games either way. I play mostly FPS, originally the Halo games on Xbox. I was never particularly good at FPS using a controller, although at the time I thought it was because I just sucked. When I first switched over to KB/M it feel awkward for a little while, but now that I am used to it I will never go back. Playing FPS now with a console controller I feel like Frankenstein, blundering around uncoordinatedly.

I have a friend who is a serious PC FPS player, but he plays Modern Warfare 2 on Xbox Live also in order to play online with friends who are console users. However, he bought an adapter that allows him to use his regular keyboard and mouse while playing on the Xbox, giving him much better control/precision than the average console FPS gamer. Another friend who is a hardcore console FPS player challenged him to a one-on-one game, KB/M vs. controller. Needless to say, the controller guy got schooled.

Someone in here mentioned that using a keyboard and mouse was unrealistic, but as others have stated I feel that this is not the case. I don't think the realism of gaming is impacted by which way you choose to interface with your game, and besides, why would you chose an option that slows you down in competitive multiplayer games?

It all boils down to what type of gaming you like and what you are used to, but I have to say I think an insightful quote I once encounted on these forums says it best: "PC Gaming = Olypics. Console Gaming = Special Olympics. "

 

[cannondale06]

I used to hate controllers but now I love them. well except for the aiming. lol. I hate trying to use all the various keys on the keyboard especially while playing games in the dark. and being hunched over the desk is certainly no fun either. the controller allows me to kick back and relax and all the buttons are much easier to push quickly. again the aiming is pretty bad and I end up wasting ammo and/or dying more than using the mouse. now games like Batman and Assassins Creed are absolutely perfect on the controller.

 

[Sly]

Mouse/KB being better than a controller for FPS games isn't an opinion; it's a simple fact.

Hypothetically, (since this can't actually happen) if you put the worldwide "best controller FPS player" up against the worldwide "best Mouse/KB FPS player" in the same game that they both played for 5 years, removed all other variables, and told them to go at it?

The controller player would get owned. Hard. Repeatedly. The only remaining topic up for debate in this scenario is just how completely unbalanced the ratio would be. 3 to 1? 5 to 1? 10 to 1?

There is simply no compensating for the fact that on a controller your movements are mapped to a constant "turn speed" as opposed to a direct translation of your movements. Aiming with a controller analog stick is closely related to aiming with your keyboard's arrow keys back in 1994.

Meanwhile, a Mouse has the ability to let you move as fast or as slowly as you want, instantly, without losing any precision.

It's simply not debatable. The only people on the controller side are die hard console kids who've never played a PC FPS with a mouse. They refuse to entertain the notion of trying it either. They believe that they're great FPS players because they own other people on XBox live and that their opinion is therefor valid... but you can dominate your high school football league too and it certainly doesn't mean you stand a chance playing pro football. You may still "prefer" to play on gamepad, but the question of which is "better" isn't even a question.

I used to have this discussion in college.

Quake 3 for the Dreamcast was historically the first game that put the controller vs KB/M debate to rest.

 

[Dreaz]

Quake 3 for the Dreamcast was historically the first game that put the controller vs KB/M debate to rest.

Really? "Historically"? I can open up a history book and read how Q3 for DC finally put the argument to rest? Wow. Awesome. I'm glad historians decided to preserve those moments in history.

 

[Daggah]

Really? "Historically"? I can open up a history book and read how Q3 for DC finally put the argument to rest? Wow. Awesome. I'm glad historians decided to preserve those moments in history.

So, what kind of games did you say you play on consoles where you need the more "realistic" (LOL) controls a gamepad gives you?

 

[kumquat]

Really? "Historically"? I can open up a history book and read how Q3 for DC finally put the argument to rest? Wow. Awesome. I'm glad historians decided to preserve those moments in history.

It's not history if it's not in a history textbook..?

 

[Spare-Flair]

It's not just turn speed. Aiming with a mouse is aiming on an X-Y grid of specific coordinates.

When you are using an analog stick, you have a big deadzone in the middle and then the aiming fluctuates based on the angle of the stick and ramps up at an uneven rate depending on how far from center you are.

 

[mas]

Are you or your fanboi buddy going to say something else? KB/M controls are more unrealistic, period. That's one of the many facts between the two. No one has or can dispute that. Therefore, if you want more realistic controls, play with a gamepad.

Really? "Historically"? I can open up a history book and read how Q3 for DC finally put the argument to rest? Wow. Awesome. I'm glad historians decided to preserve those moments in history.

well that is history, in the mind of a child. even if you were still in school, haven't you been taught at some point that history exists outside of written text? a big part of growing up is learning to consider past events on your own, instead of relying on dictated perspectives.

so where can I get such a book, that says controllers are more "realistic" than mice? or is that just something you have been been told, by historical marketing for historical devices, built for every console in history. clearly not from experience, since you obviously don't play pc games.

the most realistic input, is the one that translates your movements most accurately to the game. that's what "realism" is, and what makes things feel "realistic". or do you have a better definition? this is why light guns sucked, because they were not accurate, similar to the wiimote. are you going to say that they're "better" because shooting with a gun in a shooter game is more realistic? in this one of your many "facts" (historical facts?), you didn't even say what kind of game you were talking about, which already makes your keyboard rage posts pointless.

so if you want to compare realism, then controllers are more realistic for fighting games, because you complete moves by sweeping the dpad. and a mouse would be more realistic for shooters, because you can point at exactly where you're aiming. instead of nudging thumbsticks, or pushing arrow buttons. some would still prefer one over the other, but that does not make them more "real".

 

[SoAndSo]

seriously?
m+kb shits over a controller any day of the week

 

[cannondale06]

seriously?
m+kb shits over a controller any day of the week

not in every game

 

[SoAndSo]

not in every game

racing + fighting games of course. But in the VAST majority of games, a mouse + KB IS a better input system than a controller.

 

[sparks]

well with a pc game you have a keyboard and a mouse to aim.
In a console it aims for you so you just turn to face the enemy and hit fire.
No thinking, no skill, just make sure and trash talk in broken words and never make a sentence.
Oh and use Lete and LTE and always remember that everyone else is lsr nob.

 

[Netrat33]

racing + fighting games of course. But in the VAST majority of games, a mouse + KB IS a better input system than a controller.

Vast? Sports. Arcade. RPG (type of) Puzzle. Music (whole different controller all together) 3rd person games swing either way.

 

[dwk]

Yeah but try comparing the aim of the best CSS players to the best Halo players.

That is like comparing the best Soccer player to the best Football player which is pointless. Two different sports just like CSS and Halo are two different games.

 

[Netrat33]

That is like comparing the best Soccer player to the best Football player which is pointless. Two different sports just like CSS and Halo are two different games.

or even CSS to Unreal, Quake, Painkiller, ect.

 

[dwk]

I have a friend who is a serious PC FPS player, but he plays Modern Warfare 2 on Xbox Live also in order to play online with friends who are console users. However, he bought an adapter that allows him to use his regular keyboard and mouse while playing on the Xbox, giving him much better control/precision than the average console FPS gamer. Another friend who is a hardcore console FPS player challenged him to a one-on-one game, KB/M vs. controller. Needless to say, the controller guy got schooled.

So he cheated to win... how does that prove anything? That is like us playing a soccer game and me using my "hand adapter" to pick up the ball and run with it to win. It is sad if you have to buy an kb/m adapter to play on console.

 

[-Sn1PeR-]

I enjoy fps games more on a mouse due to the fact that I can pull a 180 quicker while still maintaining fine aim precision. I do use a xbox 360 controller on my pc quite a bit in racing games, 3rd person games, etc. GTA4, Dirt 2, Batman most recently. With that said I don't mind playing first person games on the console. I enjoyed Killzone 2 and already ordered a copy of Halo Reach. No I'm not as accurate, but it's still fun and it lets me game with all of my friends -- the majority of which do not game on the pc. Some games have controls that are simply too complicated for a controller -- way too many buttons. A lot of RTS games would not play well at all on a controller. I also love me some joystick action...

If I play at my desk for too long my shoulder aches from a previous shoulder injury, so the controller is a nice break for me.

So he cheated to win... how does that prove anything? That is like us playing a soccer game and me using my "hand adapter" to pick up the ball and run with it to win. It is sad if you have to buy an kb/m adapter to play on console.

How is this cheating? Is buying a non-microsoft controller for your xbox cheating? I use fps-freak adapters on my aiming sticks to give me more precision while still being able to turn fast -- is that cheating? I just don't see where the line is drawn here, for me input devices are input devices. Will the new razer controllers with adjustable tension be cheating? I could see recording stick/key inputs and making macros being considered cheating for fighting games.

 

[dwk]

How is this cheating? Is buying a non-microsoft controller for your xbox cheating? I use fps-freak adapters on my aiming sticks to give me more precision while still being able to turn fast -- is that cheating? I just don't see where the line is drawn here, for me input devices are input devices. Will the new razer controllers with adjustable tension be cheating? I could see recording stick/key inputs and making macros being considered cheating for fighting games.

How can you say it is not? So if I picked up the ball in a friendly soccer game of me vs you and you would be ok with it?

Is buying a non-microsoft controller for your xbox cheating? No it would be like buying non-nike shoes.

I use fps-freak adapters on my aiming sticks to give me more precision while still being able to turn fast -- is that cheating? No that would be like buying a more advance pair of shin guards.

Will the new razer controllers with adjustable tension be cheating? Nope it would be like buying an advance shoe with adjustable straps.

Consoles are designed for controllers and not mouse and keyboards. That is why you just can not hooked up a mouse and keyboard and play. If you do not like that you can not use your mouse and keyboard then stick to PC gaming. Everybody is using a controller on console so everybody has the same limitations and if you can not hang then do not play. Simple really.

 

[phide]

Two different sports just like CSS and Halo are two different games.

But they both involve the same identical multi-axis aiming system. Fundamentally, the movement mechanics — forward and backward movement, side-to-side strafing and perspective pitch and yaw — are absolutely identical. Yeah, there are different guns and different objectives and variations between player speed, but apart from that, they're fundamentally identical.

 

[dwk]

But they both involve the same identical multi-axis aiming system. Fundamentally, the movement mechanics — forward and backward movement, side-to-side strafing and perspective pitch and yaw — are absolutely identical. Yeah, there are different guns and different objectives and variations between player speed, but apart from that, they're fundamentally identical.

So does soccer and football. You use your feet to move and get the ball from one side of the field to the other to score. They could also be consider 'fundamentally' the same when you break them down to the basic core but when you look at the whole picture they are different. Just like halo and CSS are different when you look at the whole picture so you can not really compare the two equally.

 

[Boreas]

Back to OP:

I believe the keyboard is better because the controller is based on a kind of "Inertia" control. Aslong as that joystick is pointed in a direction, you will be moving your view that way. With a mouse, theres an exact space, its like your mouse pad is a set graph of coordinates, and if you move your mouse to one place, it literally moves it there on the screen. This allows for , at least for me, alot more precise movements. Aswell as alot more options from all the available keyboard keys. but, in all reality, it boils down to whatever the user is used to. As for me, It depends on the game. I would be 100x better at a THPS game with a controller rather than a port to the computer. But, as for call of duty 4, i am AWFUL with the controller, but not bad with the keyboard and mouse. Its really just preference.

 

[phide]

Just like halo and CSS are different when you look at the whole picture so you can not really compare the two equally.

Yet we're not focusing on the "whole picture" but instead focusing specifically on the differences in controllers. That's what this thread is about.

 

[SoAndSo]

That is like comparing the best Soccer player to the best Football player which is pointless. Two different sports just like CSS and Halo are two different games.

ut99 on ps2 and ut99 on PC. EXACTLY the same game, 1v1 pad vs kb+m
I would love to see the score on that game 50-60 - 0? maybe more than that!

 

[Bisectors Fore]

How can you say it is not? So if I picked up the ball in a friendly soccer game of me vs you and you would be ok with it?

Is buying a non-microsoft controller for your xbox cheating? No it would be like buying non-nike shoes.

I use fps-freak adapters on my aiming sticks to give me more precision while still being able to turn fast -- is that cheating? No that would be like buying a more advance pair of shin guards.

Will the new razer controllers with adjustable tension be cheating? Nope it would be like buying an advance shoe with adjustable straps.

Consoles are designed for controllers and not mouse and keyboards. That is why you just can not hooked up a mouse and keyboard and play. If you do not like that you can not use your mouse and keyboard then stick to PC gaming. Everybody is using a controller on console so everybody has the same limitations and if you can not hang then do not play. Simple really.

First things first: Why do you keep talking about soccer? This is AMERICA. We don't give a sh*t about soccer.

Seriously though, I fail to see how you can say that using a keyboard and mouse is cheating but using a tweaked controller is not cheating. Using a keyboard and mouse is an option that is available to everyone if they prefer that mode of interface over using a controller. To say that that is cheating is like saying it's cheating to use a high-resolution monitor that lets you see farther into the distance, or saying it's cheating if you buy audiophile headphones so that you can hear enemy footsteps. This is not cheating; it is being serious about your gaming.

 

[dwk]

Using a keyboard and mouse is an option that is available to everyone if they prefer that mode of interface over using a controller.

Here is where you logic fails.... it is not an option to everybody on console. If it was then I would be able to walk into a walmart and buy a mouse and keyboard to use on my 360 but you cant. Consoles use controllers and everybody has the same limitations using them. Some people suck with them and some people do not. Just like some people are more accurate than others with a mouse. Does that mean the person who is less accurate should start using an aimbot with his mouse to help him?

 

[-Sn1PeR-]

Does that mean the person who is less accurate should start using a aimbot with his mouse to help him?

/Thread. Using a mouse and keyboard is like using aimbot compared to a controller.


But seriously, if the device is readily available online on Amazon you can't make these claims.

 

[dwk]

/Thread. Using a mouse and keyboard is like using aimbot compared to a controller.

lol I could agree with that. I am not disputing the fact that a mouse is more accurate than a controller. I am saying that everybody has the same limitations with a controller and when it comes down to controller vs controller the playing field is even and it comes down to personal skill. Just like a mouse vs a mouse it's all about personal skill. When you try controller vs mouse the playing field is not even. Just like a football player using his hands in soccer match would not be even. Just like anything else it takes practice to get better. I am both a PC gamer (played CS since beta 3) and a console gamer (since the PS2) and can hold my own with either. I have accepted the limitations of a controller and have moved on which has made playing consoles a lot more fun.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

Gonna agree witht he people who say each control scheme works differently for different types of games. I would not want to play a sports game or a platformer with a keyboard/mouse, just like I would not like playing FPS or 3rd person games like Mass Effect on a controller.

I use my controller on my PC for Dirt2, Batman AA. Mouse and keyboard for everything else I own.

 

[[LYL]Homer]

I was watching the FO: New Vegas footage the other day as played on a console and as I watched I noted to myself that this is why I don't like consoles and their controllers - the gameplay is jerky compared to PC.

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/29981

I couldn't imagine Counter-strike played on a console.

 

[Bisectors Fore]

Here is where you logic fails.... it is not an option to everybody on console. If it was then I would be able to walk into a walmart and buy a mouse and keyboard to use on my 360 but you cant. Consoles use controllers and everybody has the same limitations using them. Some people suck with them and some people do not. Just like some people are more accurate than others with a mouse. Does that mean the person who is less accurate should start using an aimbot with his mouse to help him?

http://www.amazon.com/Xfps-360-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0010ZH3V8

The inventory of Walmart stores is irrelevant to this discussion. I don't know where exactly my friend bought his, but I was able to find the adapter linked above--as well as many others like it--in roughly five seconds using Google. The point is that using a keyboard and mouse is most certainly an option that is available to everyone, whether they are gaming on a console or a computer. Likewise, gamers can use a controller if that is there preference regardless of whether or not they are playing on console. But I hardly think you would call it cheating if I chose to use a controller for gaming on my PC. Some people are better with controllers and prefer using them; some people are better with a KB/M and prefer to use that. Since both options are available regardless of what platform you play on, you can't call either one cheating.

 

[Syntaxx]

I wanna buy the world a coke

 

[kumquat]

http://www.amazon.com/Xfps-360-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0010ZH3V8

The inventory of Walmart stores is irrelevant to this discussion. I don't know where exactly my friend bought his, but I was able to find the adapter linked above--as well as many others like it--in roughly five seconds using Google. The point is that using a keyboard and mouse is most certainly an option that is available to everyone, whether they are gaming on a console or a computer. Likewise, gamers can use a controller if that is there preference regardless of whether or not they are playing on console. But I hardly think you would call it cheating if I chose to use a controller for gaming on my PC. Some people are better with controllers and prefer using them; some people are better with a KB/M and prefer to use that. Since both options are available regardless of what platform you play on, you can't call either one cheating.

"Don't expect gameplay to be identical to playing on the PC! Something gets lost in the translation when faking mouse commands with controller commands. It feels slightly sluggish at times, even with the sensitivity set really high. At other times, it feels slightly laggy."

"Response is sluggish even when adjust properly."

"this device will NOT work anywhere near as well as you hope. Trust me on this."

 

[Robert_J]

o by the way i dont use WASD or ESDF i use the arrow keys
been using them since DOOM

 

[dwk]

http://www.amazon.com/Xfps-360-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0010ZH3V8

The inventory of Walmart stores is irrelevant to this discussion.

Then amazon's inventory is also irrelevant to this discussion

The point is that using a keyboard and mouse is most certainly an option that is available to everyone, whether they are gaming on a console or a computer. Likewise, gamers can use a controller if that is there preference regardless of whether or not they are playing on console. But I hardly think you would call it cheating if I chose to use a controller for gaming on my PC. Some people are better with controllers and prefer using them; some people are better with a KB/M and prefer to use that. Since both options are available regardless of what platform you play on, you can't call either one cheating.

Then you must agree then that it is ok to use an aimbot on PC to game with competitively since you know it is available to anybody regardless of PC..... If you can not see the HUGE advantage you are gaining over large majority of other players on console by using an special adapter to hook up a mouse/keyboard then it is pointless for this discussion to go any further. You are changing the level of the playing field and not making it balance because of lack of skill. It just plain sad really. Just remember next time someone uses wallhack, aimbot, or other on you in a PC game that installing those programs is open to everybody and you can only be mad at yourself for not using them too....

 

[Bisectors Fore]

Then amazon's inventory is also irrelevant to this discussion

Then you must agree then that it is ok to use an aimbot on PC to game with competitively since you know it is available to anybody regardless of PC..... If you can not see the HUGE advantage you are gaining over large majority of other players on console by using an special adapter to hook up a mouse/keyboard then it is pointless for this discussion to go any further. You are changing the level of the playing field and not making it balance because of lack of skill. It just plain sad really. Just remember next time someone uses wallhack, aimbot, or other on you in a PC game that installing those programs is open to everybody and you can only be mad at yourself for not using them too....

You're right, the inventory of any particular retailer is not important. I was simply using that link as an example to prove the point that keyboard/mouse adapters are available to everyone. While it is true that because I am a PC gamer, a keyboard and mouse would give me an advantage over using a controller, this is not the case for everybody. Some people are used to using controllers, do well with them and prefer using them over a KB/M. It is a matter of personal preferance and what you are accustomed to using, and everyone has the right/option to chose the method of interface they prefer. I think you are pretending to be stupid when you say you can't tell the difference between using a system you are more comfortable with, vs. hacking the game's code to give you an unfair advantage.

 

[dwk]

You're right, the inventory of any particular retailer is not important. I was simply using that link as an example to prove the point that keyboard/mouse adapters are available to everyone.

If this was true then they would be available in all major gaming retails... walmart, gamestop, bestbuy, etc which is what your average consumer is going to shop at.... You can almost buy ANYTHING on the internet and it is available to everybody. I am sure if you did a google search for "midget porn" you could find someone to sell it to you. Still does not make it right just because the internet sold it to you.

While it is true that because I am a PC gamer, a keyboard and mouse would give me an advantage over using a controller, this is not the case for everybody. Some people are used to using controllers, do well with them and prefer using them over a KB/M. It is a matter of personal preferance and what you are accustomed to using, and everyone has the right/option to chose the method of interface they prefer. I think you are pretending to be stupid when you say you can't tell the difference between using a system you are more comfortable with, vs. hacking the game's code to give you an unfair advantage.

Actually it does give you an advantage when you look at it tech for tech. A controller can only take you so far and at some point the mouse will surpass it. I think both of them yield an unfair advantage I am simply using your logic. How can you say that a software hack is different than a hardware one? They are both hacking the game's code. Sure on a computer it is all about personal preference not going to argue with you there but a console is a closed system and in MOST cases a k/m is not an option. If it was then you could simply plug one in and go but you can't you have to use a hardware hack to make it work. You are circumventing the closed system which is cheating.

 

[badcookies]

Then amazon's inventory is also irrelevant to this discussion



Then you must agree then that it is ok to use an aimbot on PC to game with competitively since you know it is available to anybody regardless of PC..... If you can not see the HUGE advantage you are gaining over large majority of other players on console by using an special adapter to hook up a mouse/keyboard then it is pointless for this discussion to go any further. You are changing the level of the playing field and not making it balance because of lack of skill. It just plain sad really. Just remember next time someone uses wallhack, aimbot, or other on you in a PC game that installing those programs is open to everybody and you can only be mad at yourself for not using them too....

i dont mean to join in on the back and fourth you have here but isnt hooking up a kb/m on a console the same as two people playing kb/m on computers and one person having a 80 dollar dpi switching mouse and backlit keyboard? kb/m/controller all dictate movement and controls so isnt input is input is input? as it was said, spending the extra money for better input devices i feel is simply being more serious about the gaming. its been said some people use controller d-pad and mouse look/shoot for console fps. the console supports the mice input so why is it even an issue to be debated on as to whether its a HUGE advantage or not?

i think calling it aimbotting is an irrational form of argument. the tiny bit of autoaim is to compensate for the accuracy of mice. i doubt many would dispute that. knowing that, as said before, ps2/ps3 both allow for mice to be used. i think it can be inferred that that autoaim would then be disabled on mice attached to the console. because of this, all this talk about having "fair input use" should not include autoaim on a pc.