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S-PVA vs E-IPS
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burningrave101
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Better at what? And from your sig it looks like you already have a 2209wa so what S-PVA are you looking at?
The stock answer is that each has its benefits and drawbacks.
E-IPS is relatively new and seems to be comparable to IPS in that colors shift hardly at all upon changing viewing angles. However, I don't think the blacks are quite as deep as PVA, and E-IPS can gave off some funny yellow glows. It's response times seem to be getting faster with each iteration though.
PVA has good blacks in general, although I think it's response times are a bit pokey.
In my preference, I would prefer E-IPS.
E-IPS is relatively new and seems to be comparable to IPS in that colors shift hardly at all upon changing viewing angles. However, I don't think the blacks are quite as deep as PVA, and E-IPS can gave off some funny yellow glows. It's response times seem to be getting faster with each iteration though.
PVA has good blacks in general, although I think it's response times are a bit pokey.
In my preference, I would prefer E-IPS.
If that NEC EA231WMi really shows up at $380, I don't think it can be beat. Second choice would be if a sale on the 2408wfp gets it below or close to $400. Also you might wait to see dell's new lineup of Ultrasharps in the coming months.
burningrave101
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Don't create confusion, e-IPS is better than S-PVA
An e-IPS is a little better in certain areas but I would take a Dell 2408WFP over the 2209WA any day of the week because I want a 1920x1200 24" display. There is too small of a difference between the current e-IPS and an S-PVA panels to warrant me to spend more on something else like the HP LP2475W which has it's own color issues.
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And would you get a 24" E-IPS panel that is rumored to be Dell's next lineup of premium 24" monitors?
I would. I want the LG 2420p to come stateside/North America, but if the 2410 has that eIPS panel at 1920x1200 and if it's standard sRGB gamut I'd buy one unless it was overly pricey (which I doubt) or unless there was something specifically flawed in the product. My 2209WA would be perfect if it had an aspect ratio scaling or 16:9 static ratio scaling mode. Otherwise it's great for the low price I paid. If more come like this (with ratio scaling), I'd be happy in my camper.
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If it were 1920x1200 and standard Gamut, I would probably get one to go with my NEC 2490. If such a thing existed back when I bought my NEC, I probably would have got it instead of my NEC.
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One can only hope...as long as it has all the features you guys have been hoping for (relatively good value, sRGB, low input lag) and the ports of the 2408WFP, I think we have a winner there.
You really should wait a bit - for the Dell refresh if nothing else.
Secondly you should choose between specific models. There are very good PVA's and very good IPS's. Generalizing is ok, but really the variation is so strong that it's best to narrow down to a few models and then either hit the reviews or ask away and get some specific thoughts on specific models. Even monitors that use the same "underlying" panel can have different QA and thus could get some very different marks for performance.
I have a 2408 and like it very, very much.
Secondly you should choose between specific models. There are very good PVA's and very good IPS's. Generalizing is ok, but really the variation is so strong that it's best to narrow down to a few models and then either hit the reviews or ask away and get some specific thoughts on specific models. Even monitors that use the same "underlying" panel can have different QA and thus could get some very different marks for performance.
I have a 2408 and like it very, very much.
e-ips really is exciting. I wish more of these will be available to us in the future.
To be honest, I am a bit worried about the future of e-ips. The S-PVA from Samsung is pretty popular and has its market share, where the e-ips derived Dell 2209WA simply...
To be honest, I am a bit worried about the future of e-ips. The S-PVA from Samsung is pretty popular and has its market share, where the e-ips derived Dell 2209WA simply...
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vick1000
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The e-IPS is part of LGD, which has considerable market share. The e-IPS is also an excellent alternative to TN (similar to c-PVA)
What needs to happen is LG needs to capitalize on e-IPS and start releasing more models.
I read on a Chinese source that's discussing about the Dell's 2209WA, which has some interesting information:
Cost to manufacture e-IPS can be comparible to TN and provide far better profit margin, so long as consumer awareness raises to drive demand up, which 2209WA achieved.
It seems that LGD intends to go the way of Intel with their e-IPS panels. The unnamed source cited by the Chinese stated that LGD is not only supporting their products to the display manufacturers, they go so far as to pay or subsidize for the advertisement fees for the manufacturers so long as they will include the LGD logo on their products, similar to the Intel Inside approach.
According to the Chinese, the e-IPS is a hybrid of H-IPS and TN techniques, being that H-IPS glass subtrate is paired with TN parts to produce the final product. The combination produces little trade-off, at least minor enough that the price difference would be an overwhelming advantage.
Cost to manufacture e-IPS can be comparible to TN and provide far better profit margin, so long as consumer awareness raises to drive demand up, which 2209WA achieved.
It seems that LGD intends to go the way of Intel with their e-IPS panels. The unnamed source cited by the Chinese stated that LGD is not only supporting their products to the display manufacturers, they go so far as to pay or subsidize for the advertisement fees for the manufacturers so long as they will include the LGD logo on their products, similar to the Intel Inside approach.
According to the Chinese, the e-IPS is a hybrid of H-IPS and TN techniques, being that H-IPS glass subtrate is paired with TN parts to produce the final product. The combination produces little trade-off, at least minor enough that the price difference would be an overwhelming advantage.
burningrave101
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If Dell releases a 24" E-IPS display that shows to be better than the 2408WFP and it is in the same price range then I would buy it yes but it would have to offer me a real noticeable advantage for me to want to now sell my 2408WFP which I purchased for less than $400 to buy a more expensive 2410WFP.
The rumored panel for the 2410WFP is apparently the same as the IPS panel used in the HP 2475W. So I'm wondering if it could possibly be any better?
Uh, never? The market is dominated by monitors that are either bundled with computers or sold at big box stores (or sold online at the absolute bottom of the price range.) The unsavvy masses aren't going to pay $300 or $360 for a 1080p display. Maybe when they start selling for $180-$200, then they will start to make an impact.
That doesn't make any sense
c-PVA and e-IPS cost more or less the same as a TN to manufacture and doesn't have any resolution restrictions. LG and Samsung has to promote the new modes in similar faction to the PVA and IPS.
PS: The Dell 2209WA is cheaper and better than most so called performance TNs.
c-PVA and e-IPS cost more or less the same as a TN to manufacture and doesn't have any resolution restrictions. LG and Samsung has to promote the new modes in similar faction to the PVA and IPS.
PS: The Dell 2209WA is cheaper and better than most so called performance TNs.
Nah, TNs are 1080p for $200 or less. The 2209WA is 1680x1050 for $200...if you called in to a dell sales associate in the small business department. Not only is that $50 above TNs at that resolution, they didn't even sell it in normal channels.
It may be possible, but we need at least one model going head to head in the mass market segment before we can say the new contenders will make a dent in anything but enthusiast forums.
The problem is that the 2209WA is sold out faster than people can order them. So the supply obviously isn't enough to meet the demands of the mass market. Can't get market share if you can't ship out enough units to 'capture' the market. Hopefully the new E-IPS panels from NEC/LG/Dell that are coming up will grab more share, and then E-IPS will become widespread if companies see that it is profitable to sell and market them.
nomu: The thing is though, the actual glass subtrate and all the TN machinery means that the cost for manufacture are similar. Consumer end cost is not relevant in this kind of scenario.
E-IPS still has a long way to go in this sense. To be honest, Sharp recently started to pump its ASV for Sony means that the fight to slay TN is very much ongoing... and that the LCD business is as war, which never changes...
E-IPS still has a long way to go in this sense. To be honest, Sharp recently started to pump its ASV for Sony means that the fight to slay TN is very much ongoing... and that the LCD business is as war, which never changes...
Yes. The ability to produce products that sell for more (as nomu pointed out) at the same cost means profits go up, and this is one darn good reason for manufacturers to adopt e-IPS technology.
It's just short term though. As soon (if) as e-IPS takes over it will be the new TN, problem is that it will be even harder to motivate more expensive monitors when the cheapest are e-IPS.
One could argue that it would be more profitable to leave e-IPS out.
That doesn't make any sense
Sony's partnership with Sharp has nothing to with the actual TN panel.
Yep and it makes even less sense where Sharp will just be an alternate supplier to Samsung PVA panels in Sony TVs which don't use TN panels to start with.
I am perfectly happy to live in a world where the cheapest monitors are e-IPS. I do not understand why the problem you described is a problem. If manufacturers can come up with something significantly better than e-IPS (eg OLED), people will still pay extra for the improvements. If e-IPS is as good as it gets, why would anyone want to motivate more expensive monitors that are not any better?
That would be an anti-trust issue.
What I meant to say was that PVA derived technologies are getting lower in produciton costs as well, putting E-IPS into a situation where it must compete against those that have already setup fabs and have the production channels going. Whatever it is, I do think that E-IPS will be more than a mere niche product made exclusively available to LG, although it is not altogether clear if it will emerge as the final victor for the position of successor to TN panels.
So am I.
I was talking about it from the manufacturers point of view and why they perhaps isn't that eager put everything on e-IPS.
More expensive niche displays warrants higher margins, and if the cheapest displays are close to as good as the more expensive ones then it's likely that the market for expensive displays will practically disappear. And although a market where e-IPS was featured on all the budget-displays would be awesome it still would be a rather dull market if noone could compete with the cheap displays.
Maybe, but I wasn't stating that they should/could. Just that a switch to e-IPS would have it's drawbacks as well, and they probably have more to gain if they go about it slowly.