Computers Save Fire Fighters Millions

[sfsuphysics]

Typical base salary for a firefighter in a medium-sized city is around $40K. After two to three years, that'll jump to around $50K. With various extra certifications (which many have) and overtime, you're talking, potentially, $70-80K, with some making upwards of $100K.

Yeah but the actual COST of a firefighter typically is way larger than his salary. The FF unions have bled many cities dry, one nearby actually had to declare bankruptcy!. The health insurance for them has got to be through the roof simply because of the line of work they do. Plus the workman's comp insurance for the city has to be equally outrageous for them as well.

 

[Engine126]

I am a member of Local 2 Fireman's Union in Chicago. Our Health Care comes out of our pockets. It goes up but we have not had a raise in 2 years. I am a professional fireman. Also in 18 years on the job I have saved numerous dogs and cats from fire buildings and found homes for all that were abandoned. Oh by the way saved a few people to.

 

[phide]

Yeah but the actual COST of a firefighter typically is way larger than his salary.

Very true indeed.

...in 18 years on the job I have saved numerous dogs and cats from fire buildings and found homes for all that were abandoned. Oh by the way saved a few people to.

Okay

 

[vengence]

Yeah but the actual COST of a firefighter typically is way larger than his salary. The FF unions have bled many cities dry, one nearby actually had to declare bankruptcy!. The health insurance for them has got to be through the roof simply because of the line of work they do. Plus the workman's comp insurance for the city has to be equally outrageous for them as well.

Hence me doubling thier salary for my calculations.

 

[Jima13]

Yeah but the actual COST of a firefighter typically is way larger than his salary. The FF unions have bled many cities dry, one nearby actually had to declare bankruptcy!. The health insurance for them has got to be through the roof simply because of the line of work they do. Plus the workman's comp insurance for the city has to be equally outrageous for them as well.

It's not just the unions. Compliance with OSHA and NFPA 1710 rules make staffing tough on management, and Cal-OSHA was way tougher than the Feds. Results of some staffing studies>

http://www.iaff3499.com/L93staff/Staffing Literature 3499.pdf

 

[mynamehere]

Seriously?

It's sad that only laws (sometimes) deter people from animal abuse. If you're so emotionally detached that you're perfectly fine with shooting your "beloved" pets, why have pets at all?

Tell me, why (assuming the animal is terminally ill, seriously injured in an accident, or old & in chronic pain) is it "criminal abuse" when an owner puts his pet down, thus letting the animal be with it's master in familiar surroundings in it's last moments, but it's perfectly fine and "legal" if you pay a vet to chemi-kill the animal in an unfamiliar environment surrounded by people it doesn't know & has no attachment to? Put it this way, would you rather die in a hospital surrounded by only hospital staff, or die at home with your family? Talk about twisting the word "humane" into a profitable term.

Then there's the economics aspect...vet costs vs the price of a bullet, or other reasonably painless fast & acting method.

Yeah, what that guy did was completely assinine and has Tapioca for brains and his actions don't fit into the above scenario, therefore I think he's due some sort of punishment.

Something I still don't understand why animals have more rights than humans these days, why do people care more about baby whales than human babies? Seems some people have made themselves below other forms of life, perhaps certain "breeds" (not a racial, but a mindset comment) of humans are devolutionary rather than evolutionary, though I don't buy into all that Darwin crap anyway.

 

[Sprkslfly]

Anyone else think the numbers here are fudged or taken out of context

Completely, and without a doubt.

9 million looks like posturing by the mayor. I doubt they were using a ladder truck to deliver papers. <snip>
Definitely spend money wisely and control costs, but you have to be a royal idiot to go into city government, then crap on firefighters or police...

I don't buy it either. lol
What pissant Indiana dept has a 9 million dollar budget????

I could understand a major metropolitan area (eg: Dallas, L.A., N.Y.C, etc), but Indiana???
Come on....

Reminds me of a situation I heard about a few years ago, with a firestation practically next door to the facility that was burning, but due to "issues" with the politician involved and the fire dept....seems a certain politician's house burned to the ground....

The 'true' cost of the extra runs would be mostly in the amount of fuel used. There would be some 'cost' due to more frequent maintainence due to the extra milage, but that would bee pretty insignificat.

Just another politition trying to scare/bullshit the voters.

*nods*

/sarcasm meter check for some...

Maybe he was keeping the dogs as livestock.
Why isn't every hunter that doesn't eat his kill prosecuted for animal cruelty?

/failed sarcasm meter follows:

Are these real questions!? Dogs as livestock? Is this China?

Having pets is far different from hunting. Domestic versus wild. I hate hunting, but I understand the reason it's allowed (in most cases). Hunting because you're a redneck with that hard-ass outlook to life is cruel. Hunting because there's a dead deer on the highway every fifty feet makes sense. When deer get so overpopulated that many of them starve to death and overrun the freeways, they should be controlled. And I know that many deer hunters do eat the meat. You don't have to eat the meat though.

And Vegans are too stupid to know that that's why God put them on the earth to start with.
They aren't for decoration!

It's frightening that people may not know there's a law. More frightening that only a law would maybe prevent animal cruelty.

This idiot putting them down to go on vacation...yeah. Jail time. But that still doesn't fall under cruelty. That falls under DUMBASS. Cruelty is tying them to a post and leaving them to starve. Or beating them. Or... (ongoing list)

"Needlessly kill" covers what that guy did. Though in honesty what is the difference between him doing it and a shelter (besides 90 days in jail)?

Nothing except bureacrats, with their financials.

i think the reason people are pissed is because his reasoning was pretty pathetic. <snip>... if he had half a brain he would have just told people he gave the dogs away (and then in his head he tells himself "i gave them away to god") and everything would be just fine.

Yep. But, he should have given them away if that was the only reason to put them down.

Now, sick and in intense pain, or crippled and suffering. Then fuck the vets and the laws.
It is humane for an owner to stop the suffering, and not be badgered into some bullshit fees/process to end that suffering.

The owners who pay $1000-5000+ for "health care" for an animal are the one's who should be "put to sleep" for an epic fail on common sense. It's an animal. Not a human being.

I've loved many pets over the years, but I'll never value them the same as a person.
And anyone who does is mentally deficient.

I am a member of Local 2 Fireman's Union in Chicago. Our Health Care comes out of our pockets. It goes up but we have not had a raise in 2 years.

That, in and of itself, is FCUKDE PU.

If you're willing to put your life on the line for me or my family, YOU should be compensated as such. And teachers, who cradle the minds of our children, And
those who care for our elderly....I digress. But this just goes to reinforce just how *mentally and morally deficient* our society has allowed itself to become (en masse).

Tell me, why (assuming the animal is terminally ill, seriously injured in an accident, or old & in chronic pain) is it "criminal abuse" when an owner puts his pet down, thus letting the animal be with it's master in familiar surroundings in it's last moments, but it's perfectly fine and "legal" if you pay a vet to chemi-kill the animal in an unfamiliar environment surrounded by people it doesn't know & has no attachment to? Put it this way, would you rather die in a hospital surrounded by only hospital staff, or die at home with your family? Talk about twisting the word "humane" into a profitable term.

Then there's the economics aspect...vet costs vs the price of a bullet, or other reasonably painless fast & acting method.

Yeah, what that guy did was completely assinine and has Tapioca for brains and his actions don't fit into the above scenario, therefore I think he's due some sort of punishment.

Something I still don't understand why animals have more rights than humans these days, why do people care more about baby whales than human babies? Seems some people have made themselves below other forms of life, perhaps certain "breeds" (not a racial, but a mindset comment) of humans are devolutionary rather than evolutionary, though I don't buy into all that Darwin crap anyway.

Someone else that still has a clue. Thank you.

 

[GJSNeptune]

Tell me, why (assuming the animal is terminally ill, seriously injured in an accident, or old & in chronic pain) is it "criminal abuse" when an owner puts his pet down, thus letting the animal be with it's master in familiar surroundings in it's last moments, but it's perfectly fine and "legal" if you pay a vet to chemi-kill the animal in an unfamiliar environment surrounded by people it doesn't know & has no attachment to? Put it this way, would you rather die in a hospital surrounded by only hospital staff, or die at home with your family? Talk about twisting the word "humane" into a profitable term.

Animals are irrational. Only a human would care about the environment and who's with them in their final moments.

Euthanasia becomes a solution when an animal is too hurt or sick to live much longer and likely with great pain. Or the animal is too aggressive and is a threat to strangers and sometimes even its owners. Euthanasia is controlled, quick, and painless.

Taking your pets out back and shooting them is savage. Dying at home doesn't mean being dragged out to the backyard and shot in the head. It's more of the reason he shot his dogs. Simply because he didn't want to pay for their boarding while they went on vacation. His dogs died because they were a burden. His dogs died because he wanted to go out of town and have a nice relaxing vacation. So he killed his perfectly fine pet dogs.

Then there's the economics aspect...vet costs vs the price of a bullet, or other reasonably painless fast & acting method.

If all you see is a financial burden when owning a pet, please don't own any.

Something I still don't understand why animals have more rights than humans these days, why do people care more about baby whales than human babies? Seems some people have made themselves below other forms of life, perhaps certain "breeds" (not a racial, but a mindset comment) of humans are devolutionary rather than evolutionary, though I don't buy into all that Darwin crap anyway.

I don't know why some people care more about animal cruelty than cruelty to other humans. People are supposed to be responsible either way. Don't get a pet if you don't like animals. Don't get a pet if you aren't going to love it and give it the circumstances it needs. Pets are helpless and mostly defenseless. They rely on us to survive. So do babies and young children.

I think a big part of animal cruelty results from owners abusing animals because the animal doesn't behave properly, which is usually because the owners aren't treating the animal properly. It's a sad cycle. Animals only have their instincts. They aren't born with the knowledge to pee outside, sit on command, and not jump when excited. They have to be conditioned. I'm glad that shelters are beginning to be stricter about who takes the animals home.

 

[larryBird44]

Apologies for splitting up your post but it is easier to respond this way.

1. Euthanasia is controlled, quick, and painless. Taking your pets out back and shooting them is savage.

2. So he killed his perfectly fine pet dogs.

3. If all you see is a financial burden when owning a pet, please don't own any.

4. I'm glad that shelters are beginning to be stricter about who takes the animals home.

1. The guy in the article tied up the dogs (controlled them) and shot and killed them. Sounds pretty quick and painless to me. He didn't beat them to death. Farmers that raise cattle/horses etc use guns to end their animals life. Is that savage?

2. You must have read a different article than I did, because the article didn't state the dogs health beforehand. Do you know for a fact his dogs were perfectly fine? Would your opinion change if the dogs were 12 years old with mounting vet bills?

3. Financial costs must be considered when owning a pet, if they aren't it is irresponsible.

4. If the shelters are any more strict, they'll be putting down more animals than they do already.

 

[GJSNeptune]

1. The guy in the article tied up the dogs (controlled them) and shot and killed them. Sounds pretty quick and painless to me. He didn't beat them to death. Farmers that raise cattle/horses etc use guns to end their animals life. Is that savage?

Yes. So is using a sledgehammer to knock them unconscious before killing and slaughtering them.

2. You must have read a different article than I did, because the article didn't state the dogs health beforehand. Do you know for a fact his dogs were perfectly fine? Would your opinion change if the dogs were 12 years old with mounting vet bills?

I figured that a kennel wouldn't be a good place to board dogs in poor health. And my opinion on shooting animals remains the same. It baffles me how someone can take their pet outside, aim a gun at their head, and end their life.

3. Financial costs must be considered when owning a pet, if they aren't it is irresponsible.

That we agree on.

4. If the shelters are any more strict, they'll be putting down more animals than they do already.

Good. I'd rather have it put down than given to an unloving, unappreciative, abusive home. I'm sure the animals would agree.