Computers Save Fire Fighters Millions

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Welcome to the future Mr. Fire Fighter. In this day and age, we have a thing called e-mail! It's great, you no longer have to spend $9 million a year delivering documents using fire trucks.

"If we are literally delivering every document from a fire station by fire truck, that is not an efficient operation," said Mayor Sharon McShurley. The city administration estimates a $1,500 cost to taxpayers every time a fire trucks makes a run, based on the 6,066 runs made last year at a $9 million budget expense.
Click to expand...
 
That city had a $9 million budget for firetruck document delivery huh

Anyone else think the numbers here are fudged or taken out of context
 
Ugh. I'm in Columbus. That is so dumb. Why would you brag about it?

"Dude, I just killed my two dogs."
"Wait, what?"
"Yeah, we're goin' on vacation, so I killed them."
"You couldn't have just found a friend or relative to check on them once or twice a day?"
"Oh..."
 
SonicTron said:
That city had a $9 million budget for firetruck document delivery huh

Anyone else think the numbers here are fudged or taken out of context
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is numbers gaming.

They had a total cost of 9 million dollars and they made 6,000 runs. That does not mean it's 1,500$ a run. If you figure each run averages 20 miles round trip, and a fire truck gets 1 mile per gallon, and 2.5$ per gallon you end up with 6000 trips costing only 300,000$ in gas, figure the same for maintance and the rest going to fixed costs for the trucks (i.e. fire truck payments) then you've got a cost of 100$ a trip not 1500$. Although, I suspect the fire trucks can do at least a little better than 1 mpg and the maintance is not 2.50$ per mile. The firefighter is probably costing you at least 50$ an hour in expenses, so if it's a 1 hour trip and they take 2 people your paying as much for the fire fighters.
 
GJSNeptune said:
Couldn't they have been using the fire chief's Ford Taurus?
Click to expand...

Hah, that's what I was thinking.. why would you use a friggin fire truck to deliver paperwork?! They should have got a damn sub-compact or something for the station, hah.. that is if they couldn't use e-mail for whatever reason. I wonder how many other cities out there are using the same logic, hah. Makes me cringe on how much wasted oil/gas/money they're using.
 
vengence said:
Yeah, it is numbers gaming.

They had a total cost of 9 million dollars and they made 6,000 runs. That does not mean it's 1,500$ a run. If you figure each run averages 20 miles round trip, and a fire truck gets 1 mile per gallon, and 2.5$ per gallon you end up with 6000 trips costing only 300,000$ in gas, figure the same for maintance and the rest going to fixed costs for the trucks (i.e. fire truck payments) then you've got a cost of 100$ a trip not 1500$. Although, I suspect the fire trucks can do at least a little better than 1 mpg and the maintance is not 2.50$ per mile. The firefighter is probably costing you at least 50$ an hour in expenses, so if it's a 1 hour trip and they take 2 people your paying as much for the fire fighters.
Click to expand...


Every time a fire truck goes out it has to be staffed by its full crew, in case it gets called to respond to an emergency. I would think that the cost of having at least 4 people on the truck for average trip is about $1500. However, they might not be sending the truck places, but they are still paying the wages on the fire fighters. I wonder if the fire fighters get paid more when they are in gear and on the truck rather than sitting at the fire station. If so that might help account for the 9 million in savings.
 
9 million looks like posturing by the mayor. I doubt they were using a ladder truck to deliver papers. She also limited them to 1 trip for groceries/supplies per 72 hour shift and closed 2 fire stations, laying off 32 firefighters.

Definitely spend money wisely and control costs, but you have to be a royal idiot to go into city government, then crap on firefighters or police...
 
Face it, the firefighters are already getting paid. Also they probably estimate some of the costs based on the cost of fighting a fire. While maintenance, gas, fire fighters cost money. My guess is they take all the expenses for the fire department, divide it by the number of total runs done, and that is your expense per run.
 
Gotta love how the polititions always 'conviently' leave out the fact that most of the cost for those 'extra runs' are fised costs, and would be spent wether of not the 'extra runs' were made or not. The 'true' cost of the extra runs would be mostly in the amount of fuel used. There would be some 'cost' due to more frequent maintainence due to the extra milage, but that would bee pretty insignificat.

Just another politition trying to scare/bullshit the voters.
 
I have to agree with the others. Why in the hell would they not use a car to go back and forth.

Hell, even a cheap as fax machine would have got the job done.
 
RAF_OldBuzzard said:
Gotta love how the polititions always 'conviently' leave out the fact that most of the cost for those 'extra runs' are fised costs, and would be spent wether of not the 'extra runs' were made or not. The 'true' cost of the extra runs would be mostly in the amount of fuel used. There would be some 'cost' due to more frequent maintainence due to the extra milage, but that would bee pretty insignificat.
Click to expand...
*politicians
*conveniently
*maintenance
*mileage


I'm just baffled by them thinking using the trucks was the best solution available. If they had been using a car, they would've have had to fire people or close stations.
 
Az Syndicate said:
Every time a fire truck goes out it has to be staffed by its full crew, in case it gets called to respond to an emergency. I would think that the cost of having at least 4 people on the truck for average trip is about $1500. However, they might not be sending the truck places, but they are still paying the wages on the fire fighters. I wonder if the fire fighters get paid more when they are in gear and on the truck rather than sitting at the fire station. If so that might help account for the 9 million in savings.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about it and the firefighters wages are fixed. They are sending the ones that would be sitting in the fire house so really there is no cost for the firefighter as otherwise he would be sitting on his ass.

Even so, figuring an average figherfighter to make 50K a year (which is more than they make I think) and the cost to the city is twice thier salary, it comes out to 200$ an hour for 4 fire fighters.


There is not 9 million in savings, that is simply the budget expense. And 6000 trips is the total number of truck trips in the year not document delieveries.
 
SonicTron said:
That city had a $9 million budget for firetruck document delivery huh

Anyone else think the numbers here are fudged or taken out of context
Click to expand...
Wow, someone sure made a huge profit on delivering documents. Even the delivery service we use here only charges us 30 bucks to speed rush something across the city. (Houston)
 
GJSNeptune said:
Ugh. I'm in Columbus. That is so dumb. Why would you brag about it?

"Dude, I just killed my two dogs."
"Wait, what?"
"Yeah, we're goin' on vacation, so I killed them."
"You couldn't have just found a friend or relative to check on them once or twice a day?"
"Oh..."
Click to expand...

I didn't know it was against the law to kill your animals if you don't want them anymore. Is there some law that says you need to give them to a shelter or something? It sounds cruel but come on...no need for him to go to jail.
 
riot8ap said:
I didn't know it was against the law to kill your animals if you don't want them anymore.
Click to expand...
Seriously?

It's sad that only laws (sometimes) deter people from animal abuse. If you're so emotionally detached that you're perfectly fine with shooting your "beloved" pets, why have pets at all?

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org said:
Ohio
http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC (Select Title [9] IX - Agriculture - Animals - Fences, then Chapter 959)
Ohio Rev. Code Ann 959.01

Cruelty to animals is defined as: “Torture an animal, deprive one of necessary sustenance, unnecessarily or cruelly beat, needlessly mutilate or kill, or impound or confine an animal without supplying it during such confinement with a sufficient quantity of good wholesome food and water; affording it access to shelter; carry or convey an animal in a cruel or inhuman[e] manner.” (Note, there are other provisions which govern the conditions in which production animals are cared for and transported.) Cruelty to animals is a 2nd degree Misdemeanor with a fine up to $750 and/or imprisonment up to 90 days.

Cruelty to companion animals is defined as: “knowingly torture, torment, needlessly mutilate or maim, cruelly beat, poison, needlessly kill, or commit an act of cruelty against a companion animal.” The first offense is a 1st degree Misdemeanor with a fine up to $1000 and/or imprisonment up to 90 days. A second or subsequent offense is a 5th degree Felony with a fine up to $2500 and/or imprisonment up to 12 months. Any fines collected from this offense shall be paid to the society or association for the prevention of cruelty to animals, if there be such in the county, township, or municipal corporation where such violation occurred. Exemptions are made for scientific research, veterinary care, dogs used for hunting or field trials, farming and veterinary care. Abandoning an animal is a minor Misdemeanor with a fine up to $100.
Click to expand...
 
Some of you are forgetting that you can't just send out part of a crew in a minivan/sub-compact to deliver something for you, leaving that crew one man short if a call comes in. If a delivery takes 15-20 minutes you can't have that person away from the station that long!

But yeah, it's a numbers game regarding the total cost!
 
GJSNeptune said:
Seriously?

It's sad that only laws (sometimes) deter people from animal abuse. If you're so emotionally detached that you're perfectly fine with shooting your "beloved" pets, why have pets at all?
Click to expand...

Maybe he was keeping the dogs as livestock.
Why isn't every hunter that doesn't eat his kill prosecuted for animal cruelty?
 
Tytalus said:
Some of you are forgetting that you can't just send out part of a crew in a minivan/sub-compact to deliver something for you, leaving that crew one man short if a call comes in. If a delivery takes 15-20 minutes you can't have that person away from the station that long!
Click to expand...
One man short is still better than the expenses involved, and there will be extra guys still at the station to fill in if needed. Even having a full crew out in a firetruck in case a call comes in isn't a guarantee that they'll be anywhere near the call. It still has to be better than the expenses they suffered, which helped them decide to fire people and close stations.

Why not use a courier? Or fax machines, which have existed for like six million years.
 
Jakalwarrior said:
Maybe he was keeping the dogs as livestock.
Why isn't every hunter that doesn't eat his kill prosecuted for animal cruelty?
Click to expand...
Are these real questions!? Dogs as livestock? Is this China?

Having pets is far different from hunting. Domestic versus wild. I hate hunting, but I understand the reason it's allowed (in most cases). Hunting because you're a redneck with that hard-ass outlook to life is cruel. Hunting because there's a dead deer on the highway every fifty feet makes sense. When deer get so overpopulated that many of them starve to death and overrun the freeways, they should be controlled. And I know that many deer hunters do eat the meat. You don't have to eat the meat though.
 
GJSNeptune said:
Seriously?

It's sad that only laws (sometimes) deter people from animal abuse. If you're so emotionally detached that you're perfectly fine with shooting your "beloved" pets, why have pets at all?
Click to expand...

Just asking the question...thanks for backing it up with a law.
 
It's frightening that people may not know there's a law. More frightening that only a law would maybe prevent animal cruelty.
 
GJSNeptune said:
It's frightening that people may not know there's a law. More frightening that only a law would maybe prevent animal cruelty.
Click to expand...

qft.


this article is flawed in so many ways, if this was the case, i can't see the reasoning at all in this. what happened to fedex, usps, ups? what happened to using a car? what happened to using a fax?
 
Big boy firefighters want to look extra-cool doing errands? Seriously a courier service or fax could have done the job.

And about the dog killed, yes I know it is cruel, was just curious if there was a specific law against it. "Needlessly kill" covers what that guy did. Though in honesty what is the difference between him doing it and a shelter (besides 90 days in jail)?
 
SonicTron said:
That city had a $9 million budget for firetruck document delivery huh

Anyone else think the numbers here are fudged or taken out of context
Click to expand...
Actually they probably had many millions for "fire budget" and as it was used $9 million (which I do agree seems a bit fudged) was simply part of it. It might simply be a way for the mayor to say he's cutting $9 million from the fire budget.

I never understood the fact, it takes 3 guys to drive a fire truck to the store to get food, ok I get the point what if there's a fire then and there, but 3 guys? Don't they have some random guy they can send in his own car .. the "proby" or something?

A low-cost upgrade of computer equipment at fire stations will eliminate the costly expense of firefighters using fire trucks to deliver paperwork to the chief's office.
Click to expand...
Would that low-cost upgrade be an internet connection?? :D Seriously, I'm curious how much the "low-cost" solution is going to really be.
 
Az Syndicate said:
I wonder if the fire fighters get paid more when they are in gear and on the truck rather than sitting at the fire station.
Click to expand...
Not typically, no.

vengence said:
Even so, figuring an average figherfighter to make 50K a year (which is more than they make I think)
Click to expand...
Typical base salary for a firefighter in a medium-sized city is around $40K. After two to three years, that'll jump to around $50K. With various extra certifications (which many have) and overtime, you're talking, potentially, $70-80K, with some making upwards of $100K.
 
There's no mention of a dog at all in the article, so why are so many people talking about dogs all of a sudden?
 
Maybe your job let's you sit around but where I am from we run our asses off. If you're ever in Chicago look up this engines address and you stop on by on a friday night.
 
riot8ap said:
I didn't know it was against the law to kill your animals if you don't want them anymore. Is there some law that says you need to give them to a shelter or something? It sounds cruel but come on...no need for him to go to jail.
Click to expand...

i see your point because hows is it different if he just took the dogs to a clinic and have them kill the dogs? that would have been 10x worse for the dogs because they would know the whole way there that something was up. very stressful for animals to go to the vet. this guy is going to jail because he tried to save some money it looks like... no wonder violent criminals run free on our streets.

i think the reason people are pissed is because his reasoning was pretty pathetic. he sounds like a republican to say the least... if he had half a brain he would have just told people he gave the dogs away (and then in his head he tells himself "i gave them away to god") and everything would be just fine.
 
Engine126 said:
Maybe your job let's you sit around but where I am from we run our asses off. If you're ever in Chicago look up this engines address and you stop on by on a friday night.
Click to expand...

Please don't take what I said wrong. I only ment they are not having to employee extra people to run the documents, they will be employing the same number of people regardless so you can't count the labor as part of the savings. I'm not saying firefighters are lazy.
 
Someone mentioned UPS and USPS and Fedex. The problem with those services is that they don't deliver same day and with deadlines approaching, sometimes you need files sent quickly. Obviously having scanned documents that one can email solves this problem.

My issue with them sending fire fighters out to deliver documents is the fact that fire fighters should be fighting fires. They're not glorified messengers. And that is how they should have sent their documents originally. Seriously, even if you're a small town, is it that hard to have two or three guys on the city payroll (assuming there is no local messenger service) at 10-15 bucks an hour with benefits to shuttle documents back and forth instead of having firemen who make $40-50 an hour doing that job.
 
I don't know how being a firefighter works, but maybe they liked using the delivery trips as practice driving the vehicles. Other than that, I just can't believe they thought it was a practical delivery solution.
 
Actually, maybe I missed it in the article, but what exactly are these documents anyway?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top