It's called polishing a turd

O

occupant

n00b
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
6
I do this all the time with cheap cars, too, and it works.

So my wife sees me whining about the integrated graphics on my Dell P4 box and decides, let's get him something new. I've owned used computers all my life except for one new Mac LCIII in 1994. This new box is the $398 Wal-Mart special, but she got it for $215. Specs:

eMachines EL1200-06w
AMD Athlon 64 2650e processor, 1.6GHz, 15W, AM2 socket
1GB PC5300 (possibly 6400) DDR2 RAM (this will be 3GB shortly)
160GB 7200rpm SATA hard drive
DVD burner
integrated nVidia 6150LE graphics (128MB shared memory)
modem, Ethernet, keyboard, ball mouse
19" LCD display

I want to yank that garbage modem and put the PCI-e x1 slot to good use. Dust off your old benchmarks, people. I need low power, I need low profile, I need x1. What should I look for that can beat out the on-board 6150LE without blowing up the fragile 220W power supply?

Or do tell me that there are larger (400-500W) power supplies available for these smaller OEM cases, so I can grab a Radeon X1550 512MB and not look back.
 
 
Red Falcon said:
ok... that didn't help at all! ;)


How about this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161079

or this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133211

or this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195070

btw, your psu should be more than capable of running these cards since your peripherals are few and your cpu only eats 15watts.
Click to expand...
Didn't help at all, yet you took a link from my link and posted it? I got from his post that he was looking for a low profile 1x PCI-E video card, so I pointed him in the right direction, hopefully making him aware of this website called Newegg that has search filters for this sort of query.
Home > Computer Hardware > Video Cards & Video Devices > Desktop Graphics / Video Cards (x) > Form Factor : Low Profile (x) (1-9 of 9 Results)
Click to expand...

And the Quadro & FireVM that you linked are not for games, but OP didn't even mention what he needed it for either.
 
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j3ff86 said:
Didn't help at all, yet you took a link from my link and posted it? I got from his post that he was looking for a low profile 1x PCI-E video card, so I pointed him in the right direction, hopefully making him aware of this website called Newegg that has search filters for this sort of query.


And the Quadro & FireVM that you linked are not for games, but OP didn't even mention what he needed it for either.
Click to expand...

lol, AGP cards were in your result. :rolleyes:

oh, unless he cuts the back of his 1x slot off (which he may or may not do), those results you posted won't help at all. Did you even read his op?
 
Red Falcon said:
oh, unless he cuts the back of his 1x slot off (which he may or may not do), those results you posted won't help at all. Did you even read his op?
Click to expand...
No, that part was in your head. He only said that he needs to remove the modem that is currently in the 1x slot and replace it with a video card.

Newegg only has one 1x pcie low profile gaming card, the x1550, which was in my link, and was the first video card listed because I had it previously filtered to show highest price items first. If you want to split hairs about how I didn't filter the results more and say that I was not helpful at all, then piss off.
 
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j3ff86 said:
No, that part was in your head. He only said that he needs to remove the modem that is currently in the 1x slot and replace it with a video card.

Newegg only has one 1x pcie low profile gaming card, the x1550, which was in my link. If you want to split hairs about how I didn't filter the results more and say that I was not helpful at all, then piss off.
Click to expand...

no, your results WEREN'T helpful.

He said he needed the video card to be PCI-E 1x, NOT 16x in your crappy results!
Take a chill pill man. ;)

I need low power, I need low profile, I need x1.
Click to expand...


EDIT:

Honestly, that x1550 wouldn't be much faster than his integrated (which is essentially a 6200 w/ nerfed memory). Only the Quadro's and FireMV's would be a decent upgrade.
 
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Red Falcon said:
no, your results WEREN'T helpful.

He said he need the video card to be PCI-E 1x, NOT 16x in your crappy results!
Take a chill pill man. ;)
Click to expand...
Oh and like your workstation (non-gaming) video cards weren't crappy suggestions? They are not an upgrade.
 
j3ff86 said:
Oh and like your workstation (non-gaming) video cards weren't crappy suggestions? They are not an upgrade.
Click to expand...

Just for the record, he didn't say he needed it for gaming. You said that yourself.

So how were my suggestions crappy? Oh, and yeah, the NVS290 is a hell of an upgrade. Do some research.

EDIT:

Dual of the Fates music starts up ;)
 
Red Falcon said:
Just for the record, he didn't say he needed it for gaming. You said that yourself.

So how were my suggestions crappy? Oh, and yeah, the NVS290 is a hell of an upgrade. Do some research.

EDIT:

Dual of the Fates music starts up ;)
Click to expand...
I said that to point out how his post lacked the proper information to answer it; he's obviously looking for a gaming card, no one buys a $200 eMachine for use as a professional workstation.
 
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j3ff86 said:
I said that to point out how his post lacked the proper information to answer it; he's obviously looking for a gaming card, no one buys a $200 eMachine for use as a professional workstation.
Click to expand...

Actually, the best thing he could do is cut the back of the 1x slot off and install a cheaper and more powerful card and just run it at 1x.
 
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Dude, seriously, your post sucked and was useless. You need to narrow it down to specific things.

In your frame of thinking, I could just post www.newegg.com and it would have been the greatest post ever for this thread.
 
I would go with the x11550 or cut the back of your pci-e 1x slot and get the sapphire 4650 low profile.
 
Met-AL said:
Dude, seriously, your post sucked and was useless. You need to narrow it down to specific things.

In your frame of thinking, I could just post www.newegg.com and it would have been the greatest post ever for this thread.
Click to expand...

QFT

To the op: good luck on finding a card that suites you. :)
 
IIRC there were special version of geforce 7300 and radeon 1300 that could fit into pci-ex x1 slot.
 
CHAoS_NiNJA said:
Maybe its just me...but for PCI-E x1, theres only one best option (or in this case, two of the same one.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162016
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162016R Open box.

9600GT, the best GPU you'll find anywhere for PCI-E x1. Low profile too. :)

EDIT: Oops, just saw your PSU...that would be a problem...but maybe not. The rest of your box is drawing next to nothing in juice, you'd just need to find out how strong the 12v rail is on that PSU and see if it could handle it.
Click to expand...

another one...? wow, am I missing something here or are people mistaking a PCI-E x1 slot for a PCI-E x16 slot...?

pcie-all.gif
 
Haha, WOW I can't believe I did that. Sorry, this is what I get for posting tired.

Move along.
 
The box was purchased on eBay, it is not new new, it has been purchased, started up, registered, the warranty is out, but the computer was not used for more than about a month. It was then put back in the box when the guy got a laptop from school.

Yeah, you guys are funny. I suppose I could clarify, I'm looking more for recommendations of cards that existed in the past that fit the x1, not what might be available new now, since what is out there now does bring the suck and fail.

So the X1550 that costs $100-$130 new wouldn't be any better than 6150SE integrated? I've played GTA:SA on an X1550 equipped P4 2.4 and it wasn't bad. If the 6150SE can handle that, then I don't need a seperate video card except to take a load of the CPU. In which case there is a guy on CL selling a 6200 128MB card for ten freakin bucks.

In all the other searches and forum browsing I did in the past day, THIS 7300GTCARD seems to be the only real upgrade. That OR...an 8400GS. Sparkle just introduced an X1 8400GS about 6 months ago.

clipboard01uu1.jpg


From a press release...

SPARKLE GeForce 8400 GS PCI Express x1 Graphics Cards are the best choices for budget gamers who want more 3D powerful weapons to replace onboard graphics but with only PCI Express x1 slot onboard.
Click to expand...

Possible game.set.match
 
Oh, get the 8400GS. HD playback is far superior to the 7300GT!

8400GS, ftw! :cool:
 
I'm shopping for one now, the Sparkle is pretty much unpurchaseable as far as I can tell, probably not for sale retail yet. No one has them in stock or even set up in their shop.

HP made a x1 8400GS in 256MB for its business class computers recently (dc series) and those sell for $70 in stores and as low as $50 on the 'Bay. The core clock and memory speed are slightly slower (think 400's instead of 5-6-700's. That might work, too, but wouldn't be as nice as the Sparkles.

I also located another cheap x1 card on the 'Bay, an ATI FireMV 2250. I think that's one of those workstation cards. I won't be streaming a wall of stock quotes anytime soon so not sure if that would work on a single-monitor setup the way I'd like. Besides, I don't know what the hell a DS-259 connector is anyway.

And also in the world of cheap, a dual monitor X1550 was for sale for $30 or so and included a dual VGA cable. Now if I set up one of these (it's low power, low profile), and plug one monitor in, will it work? Or will it tell me I'm SOL unless I connect a second display? I'd think it'd just run faster with one monitor connected, but again, I'm new to the world of discrete video.
 
occupant said:
I'm shopping for one now, the Sparkle is pretty much unpurchaseable as far as I can tell, probably not for sale retail yet. No one has them in stock or even set up in their shop.

HP made a x1 8400GS in 256MB for its business class computers recently (dc series) and those sell for $70 in stores and as low as $50 on the 'Bay. The core clock and memory speed are slightly slower (think 400's instead of 5-6-700's. That might work, too, but wouldn't be as nice as the Sparkles.

I also located another cheap x1 card on the 'Bay, an ATI FireMV 2250. I think that's one of those workstation cards. I won't be streaming a wall of stock quotes anytime soon so not sure if that would work on a single-monitor setup the way I'd like. Besides, I don't know what the hell a DS-259 connector is anyway.

And also in the world of cheap, a dual monitor X1550 was for sale for $30 or so and included a dual VGA cable. Now if I set up one of these (it's low power, low profile), and plug one monitor in, will it work? Or will it tell me I'm SOL unless I connect a second display? I'd think it'd just run faster with one monitor connected, but again, I'm new to the world of discrete video.
Click to expand...

any video card will run just one monitor if you don't want to run two, I've never heard of a video card that required two monitors to be hooked up in order for it to work, in your situation I'd just get the cheapest card available, it's not like any of them blow the others away and is worth holding out for, you could try this 8400GS...
 
wol-va-rine said:
any video card will run just one monitor if you don't want to run two, I've never heard of a video card that required two monitors to be hooked up in order for it to work, in your situation I'd just get the cheapest card available, it's not like any of them blow the others away and is worth holding out for, you could try this 8400GS...
Click to expand...

Heh, reminds me of early crossfire with the external dongle. Anyway...

Wow, this is disappointing [H]. OP, go with the X1500. It's an upgrade from integrated graphics and should work well for you.
 
My suggestions:

1. Unless you are planning to overclock, this is a lost cause. A 1.6 GHz processor is too slow to run todays's newest games, and may chug even on older games. The dual-core is less of a benefit than you might think, as only a subset of games released have proper multi-core support. And if you're going to replace the processor, ou mogh as well dump everything and get a new processor and motherboard.

2. If you do plan on overclocking, here is my suggestion: buy a new AM2 motherboard with a proper PCIe x16 slot. If you try to play these stupid games with PCIe 1x, you'll come-out a loser guaranteed. The 6150 means the 1x slot is also PCIe 1.0, so it has rather pathetic bandwidth. See here how low the performance is for a 1x version 1.0 slot:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/vidock-expresscard-graphics,1933-7.html
 
occupant said:
I do this all the time with cheap cars, too, and it works.

So my wife sees me whining about the integrated graphics on my Dell P4 box and decides, let's get him something new. I've owned used computers all my life except for one new Mac LCIII in 1994. This new box is the $398 Wal-Mart special, but she got it for $215. Specs:

eMachines EL1200-06w
AMD Athlon 64 2650e processor, 1.6GHz, 15W, AM2 socket
1GB PC5300 (possibly 6400) DDR2 RAM (this will be 3GB shortly)
160GB 7200rpm SATA hard drive
DVD burner
integrated nVidia 6150LE graphics (128MB shared memory)
modem, Ethernet, keyboard, ball mouse
19" LCD display

I want to yank that garbage modem and put the PCI-e x1 slot to good use. Dust off your old benchmarks, people. I need low power, I need low profile, I need x1. What should I look for that can beat out the on-board 6150LE without blowing up the fragile 220W power supply?

Or do tell me that there are larger (400-500W) power supplies available for these smaller OEM cases, so I can grab a Radeon X1550 512MB and not look back.
Click to expand...


You can polish a turd. I've seen it on mythbusters.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBj6PonX14A

see.:D
 
defaultluser said:
My suggestions:

1. Unless you are planning to overclock, this is a lost cause. A 1.6 GHz processor is too slow to run todays's newest games, and may chug even on older games. The dual-core is less of a benefit than you might think, as only a subset of games released have proper multi-core support. And if you're going to replace the processor, ou mogh as well dump everything and get a new processor and motherboard.

2. If you do plan on overclocking, here is my suggestion: buy a new AM2 motherboard with a proper PCIe x16 slot. If you try to play these stupid games with PCIe 1x, you'll come-out a loser guaranteed. The 6150 means the 1x slot is also PCIe 1.0, so it has rather pathetic bandwidth. See here how low the performance is for a 1x version 1.0 slot:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/vidock-expresscard-graphics,1933-7.html
Click to expand...

It's still better than PCI. PCI-E 1x 1.0 is about the equivalent to AGP 2x.

But yeah, gaming with any res above 1024x768 will bottleneck the port and multiple 2D resolutions beyond 1680x1050 will bottleneck too.
 
$100+ for X1550?! I think you should work out the economics first, before considering polishing this "turd".

You can get a 9600GSO, 4650 for $40 after rebates, and spend the rest of that $60 on a motherboard, and that would perform FAR better than any ridiculously expensive PCI-E 1x video cards. Add $50 more, and you can have a real dual-core CPU. Not sure if the E-machine PSU can handle it.

If you're serious about wanting to wring gaming performance out of your E-machine, you'd need to replace CPU, GPU, Motherboard, and Power Supply. Another thing to consider then, is inadequate cooling from typical E-machine cases...
 
razor2050 said:
$100+ for X1550?! I think you should work out the economics first, before considering polishing this "turd".

You can get a 9600GSO, 4650 for $40 after rebates, and spend the rest of that $60 on a motherboard, and that would perform FAR better than any ridiculously expensive PCI-E 1x video cards. Add $50 more, and you can have a real dual-core CPU. Not sure if the E-machine PSU can handle it.

If you're serious about wanting to wring gaming performance out of your E-machine, you'd need to replace CPU, GPU, Motherboard, and Power Supply. Another thing to consider then, is inadequate cooling from typical E-machine cases...
Click to expand...

QFT unless the OP doesn't want a gaming rig of any kind.
 
defaultluser said:
My suggestions:

1. Unless you are planning to overclock, this is a lost cause. A 1.6 GHz processor is too slow to run todays's newest games, and may chug even on older games. The dual-core is less of a benefit than you might think, as only a subset of games released have proper multi-core support. And if you're going to replace the processor, ou mogh as well dump everything and get a new processor and motherboard.

2. If you do plan on overclocking, here is my suggestion: buy a new AM2 motherboard with a proper PCIe x16 slot. If you try to play these stupid games with PCIe 1x, you'll come-out a loser guaranteed. The 6150 means the 1x slot is also PCIe 1.0, so it has rather pathetic bandwidth. See here how low the performance is for a 1x version 1.0 slot:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/vidock-expresscard-graphics,1933-7.html
Click to expand...
Red Falcon said:
It's still better than PCI. PCI-E 1x 1.0 is about the equivalent to AGP 2x.

But yeah, gaming with any res above 1024x768 will bottleneck the port and multiple 2D resolutions beyond 1680x1050 will bottleneck too.
Click to expand...

System has shipped according to seller. In a few days I'll see how horrible it runs GTA:VC as is. I read up on overclocking the 2650e, seems 2GHz is about the limit before it starts running appreciably hotter than stock 1.6GHz, and the chip was probably underclocked when it was made for this box.

I'll keep an eye out for anything dirt cheap. Seems spending more than $30 or so on a card will be useless, and that HP 8400GS is getting close to that price point new in box. I'll hang with the onboard and see how it does. If nothing else, my P4 1.8 runs Worms World Party real well (2D) and that can be more fun than Vice City at times, especially when I get the kids playing against each other and I get to be referee. That should be even better on this new box.

If I can get a year out of it, it'll be worth the hassle of not seeing a major speed increase over the box I'm typing on now. Just having the larger hard drive will be a big help.

Thanks for all the excellent replies and I'll be back when this box outlives its usefulness and becomes the stepdaughter's next homework machine (she's on my Celeron 600 now).
 
Did you check craigslist or dumpster diving for a better PC?

Just because something's yet-to-be-purchased doesn't mean it's new.

Are you sure you can't afford a better e-machine? This is what this model "boasts"
Create Spreadsheets
Breeze Through Tasks
Create Photo Slideshows
Track Your Spending
Explore the Internet
Be a Social Networker
Available at Wal-Mart
Click to expand...

So basically Office, Firefox, and maybe iTunes (on a good day).
 
So much debate about a 400$ walmart computer.
If you really want to use a value computer for games (considering you want to upgrade the gpu) and If it's not too late, return it and put together anything else from anywhere else, most likely newegg. You'll get somthing faster, a higher quality, and for the same or less money. It's bizarre to put so much thought into upgrading a 400$ walmart computer into somthing powerful / usefull.

++edit

Or else you are basically stuck with a (x1550) 130$ video card more then half the cost of your computer that wont run well. You really need to explain what sort of performance you except to get and at what cost.
 
FYI...

Took me and my wife 11 hours to clean off all the spyware and mess that was on it. THAT is why the chickie sold it. She got so much CRAP on here that it barely ran.

I have tested all four games I wanted to play and all of them run smooth enough and quick enough for my tastes. Medium resolution? Sure! Less textures? Why not!

I expect to get the year I need out of it easy.

When that year is up this can be handed down to the next family member needing a PC, and I'll build/buy a faster one. Maybe not GTAIV quality, but I have Xbox for that sort of gaming. Thanks for all the replies and this thread...is dead...
 
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