Broadband Providers Testing Usage Caps

Terry Olaes

Terry Olaes

I Used to be the [H] News Guy
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This should rile you mobile broadband users up. Sprint has joined Verizon and AT&T in abandoning the unlimited model and going to a monthly usage cap for 3G broadband service. Meanwhile, wired broadband providers Comcast and Time Warner Cable are also trying different ways to force users to cut back on usage. This trend, though not unexpected, is still a major annoyance, especially to those users that are already affected and don’t have any other viable broadband options.

Driving all this is not scarcity, because there's plenty of headroom out there on the Internet, but two interrelated issues: service providers always dramatically oversell their service, and some users are actually abusers.
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Is this just for new subscribers or current Sprint subscribers as well? My User account already tracks data usage but it still shows UNLIMITED under allowed data usage.

If they change the amount of data that would allow for this at least:
"You aren't responsible for paying an Early Termination Fee when terminating Services: (a) provided on a month-to-month basis; (b) consistent with our published trial period return policy; or (c) in response to a materially adverse change we make to the Agreement as described directly below."
 
I don't understand it, because all these companies have a special package that will run fiber to your house with insane download speeds like 15-30mbps download speeds. Are they going to cap those as well?

It's only going to get worse. Videos are starting to be HD quality and consume a lot of bandwidth. Will that be the end of it? Every major TV network has their shows online.

I hope these companies fight the broadband companies and make some changes.
 
Does anyone know much about what it takes to directly access the internet. I mean, most ISPs go to Tier 1 suppliers, but how do the Tier 1 suppliers "create" internet/allow themselves to communicate freely between each other which still being able to sell access to other companies.
 
wiseoracle said:
I don't understand it, because all these companies have a special package that will run fiber to your house with insane download speeds like 15-30mbps download speeds. Are they going to cap those as well?
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MY understanding about Verizon (the fttp forerunner), is that they promote the idea of freedom on the internet. I highly doubt they would ever want to limit their users in any way. COX (my current ISP) doesn't usually play these same BS games, but I'll be moving in less than a month to a house prewired for FIOS; can't wait to switch to 50/15 speed! :eek:
 
cinohpa said:
Does anyone know much about what it takes to directly access the internet. I mean, most ISPs go to Tier 1 suppliers, but how do the Tier 1 suppliers "create" internet/allow themselves to communicate freely between each other which still being able to sell access to other companies.
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It's complicated. Read the following research document.
 
Unlimited has always been limited and the language in the usage policies have always included clauses that indicate that there is a point where they may consider you to be abusive in your data usage, they just never clearly identify the cut off point.
 
*Cries*

I remember the days before capping. I'd get 100kb/s on Bittorrent, easy.

Now I'm lucky if I can get 30.

:|
 
I have Sprint EVDO as my primary Internet connection and think the cap, which happens to be 5GB, is too low. Isn't their aim to stop the P2P and torrent users who use gobs of bandwidth? I would think a 20 or 30GB cap would achieve the same goal without annoying customers as much as 5GB. That will really be difficult to deal with.

Fortunately, from what I've heard: a. Sprint will only terminate your service if you go over the cap excessively every month because they are only looking to stop the largest bandwidth hogs; b. Sprint has launched a service that allows you to easily track your usage and avoid going over the limit (although, as I said above, that may not be necessary); and c. the bandwidth limit will not apply to corporate accounts already purchased before July 13, when these changes will take affect. I get my Sprint EVDO through a third-party reseller, so I do not believe I will be under the cap.

Also, Sprint is being pretty fair with this: if you go to order a new plan it now says 5GB rather than unlimited, and all customers will be informed of the changes on their bill and given 60 days to cancel their contracts without an early termination fee when the changes take effect in July.

Although I believe 5GB is way too low, I understand why they are doing this. Wireless EVDO suffers from the same limitations of satellite Internet: it requires a lot of expensive equipment to provide only a small amount of bandwidth. I believe one EVDO tower can only carry two T1 lines. That means 3.0Mb/s of bandwidth must be distributed between all users of a particular tower. You can see how that would cause problems if several torrent users are using the same tower.
 
If/When AT&T imposes caps on land lines they'd better at least be reasonable. Say like 10% of total possible bandwidth or something. That way moderate to heavy users who pay for the faster better more expensive service aren't screwed, but the abusers Who dedicate their entire bandwidth 24/7 to bit torrent are. Not that I think caps in general are a good idea. They're crap, but it looks like every isp is getting in on the act and there won't be any alternative soon.
 
Hmm, If the corporations are doing what they should this would enable them to build a better infrastructure. BUT most likely they will just horde the money, get more subscribers, and wait umpteen years till their crap is 10x obsolete and then upgrade to something just a tad bit better.
 
100kbs on bittorrent that kinda sucks dude what are you running for internet? With good seeds I can usually pull down 30-50 across 20 1gig files but if its just one file with good seeds *cough*aXo*cough* I can download 1.0-2.0 mbs
 
Ualdayan said:
Is this just for new subscribers or current Sprint subscribers as well? My User account already tracks data usage but it still shows UNLIMITED under allowed data usage.

If they change the amount of data that would allow for this at least:
"You aren't responsible for paying an Early Termination Fee when terminating Services: (a) provided on a month-to-month basis; (b) consistent with our published trial period return policy; or (c) in response to a materially adverse change we make to the Agreement as described directly below."
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It's for everyone. I suggest you check your most recent bill. Per my last bill, page 2, box in the upper-left of the page...

Connection and Phone as Modem Plans T&Cs Change
Effective in 30 days, Sprint reserves the right to limit throughput speeds or amount of data transferred and to deny, terminate, modify, or suspend service if usage exceeds 5 GB/month in total or 300 MB/month while roaming off network.
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What kind of usage does simple surfing consume? Also, how are these figured? Does downloading one movie from your provider of choice use 9.x GB's, effectively doubling your month's usage in one shot? I don't understand the numbers here.
 
No alternative? Your kidding right? You don't need the internet. If my ISP starts capping they will get dropped. They also happen to provide my phone service and my television service as well. That will be an interesting phone call indeed. I'll go get a prepaid cell phone and put up an antenna. Then I will setup a free neighborhood network so the kids can still play their games(by kids I mean me). They forget they are running a luxury service.

Many of you have found a way to justify this action. I was offered an unlimited service. The second it becomes limited I'm out. I will not pay for the poeple that think they need to DL every movie on the internet and so on. I don't really DL anything. The last time I used my Torrent program was to DL the patch for COD. If you don't want this policy to take hold just tell your ISP to get bent!
 
just another way companies are screwing this country...

like we werent already low-enough on the broadband deployment list of countries... now lets make it suck on top of that! :rolleyes:
 
I got fed up with all of my residential choices being restricted so I'm going to a business DSL plan with no caps. It's the same as the residential plan but a bit more expensive for the speed I get but I won't have a 50GB cap or restriction on sustained usage. Being able to run a server and getting better customer support are pluses.

I currently have Sprint EVDO because it was the only 'unlimited' choice I had a few months back. Suddenly being restricted to a pitiful 5GBs/month definitely sucks. But at least this way I should be able to get out of my contract without paying a fee.
 
One of the interesting questions is gonna be what are the networks who distribute their wares on the net going to do about? and other high byte sites like Netflix.
 
shouldnt we be getting MORE data as technology advances?? not less?? less wont stimulate growth of infrastructure or increase in adoption....
 
I don't understand why ISP's have to be so heavy-handed about this. Apart from being unnecessary it is a PR nightmare.

Why can't the isp's simply deal with abusers on an individual basis. Is someone is downloading at 100% of his bandwidth 24/7, act against him alone - not come down heavy against everyone.
 
Gearoid said:
I don't understand why ISP's have to be so heavy-handed about this. Apart from being unnecessary it is a PR nightmare.

Why can't the isp's simply deal with abusers on an individual basis. Is someone is downloading at 100% of his bandwidth 24/7, act against him alone - not come down heavy against everyone.
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notice you said "100% of HIS bandwidth" implying that he paid for it and has every right to it.... if an ISP imposed a cap on an unlimited plan... if you bought hardware directly from them.. you should be entitled to a full refund on that hardware and a completely free opt-out from your internet plan....
 
The last time I had heard of internet usage caps was in the days of dailup. Are we going to see a return of AOL? Are we really moving this backwards? Why offer 10mb a sec and then set a cap to 50 gb? I would rather buy a chreaper plan so I can wait longer for my content to download instead of waiting for my cap to reset. Will at&t be offering rollover bytes?

This doesn't make much sense and to implement this now is awkward. 3 years ago the only people hitting 50gb was pirates now with netflix and streaming hd, a 10 year old an easily hit 50gb. I really hope verizon doesn't do this, heck if I were them I would be setting up more fios locations. As more isps offer caps, people willing to pay big bucks for high speed and unlimited usage is a gold mine.
 
ISPs currently and in the past seem to have a one-size-fits-all mindset. First it was all-you-can-eat; when bandwidth use was fairly low compared to today. Now they seem to be 'rationing' bandwidth by implementing bandwidth caps for everyone. Rationing may work to help conserve a tangible resources like metal or food for a country at war, but that's not how a free market should work; especially for a virtually intangible and scalable resource like bandwidth. When demand increases, either increase prices or supply; not try to kill demand like some ISPs are trying to do through usage caps.

One thing that some ISPs don't seem to get is that not everybody uses the Internet the same; nor are heavy users necessarily doing illegal things. IMO the heavy users should be throttled to slower speeds that are still reasonable for browsing and email (things an average Joe would typically use the Internet connection for). That'd be preferred over cutting them off or charging ridiculous fees for going over the cap. It'd also let customers keep our all-you-can-eat mindset while allowing ISPs to manage bandwidth abusers.

Of course, offer tiered pricing so that heavy users can pay to increase or eliminate the throttling threshold. Basically, when subscribing to broadband you shouldn't just have an option when it comes to speed; but also caps (or lack thereof). Provide more choices to suit a wide range people with different needs and ISPs may find that their customers will pay based on their usage. Suddenly the heavy bandwidth users are no longer nuisances but valuable customers that are willing to pay more than the average Joe.
 
I think ISPs should have a "light" plan, say 5GB/month for $40, a "medium" plan of around 50GB/month for $60, and a "heavy" plan of 500GB/month for $100.

"Unlimited" used to work because no one could really take advantage of it, but now the Internet offers services that allow one to use tons of bandwidth. I don't think it's fair that a casual web surfer pays the same per month as a heavy torrent user who downloads two HD movies every week.. I'm not against a cap if the ISPs would offer a higher cap for more money to the users who are willing to pay for their high usage.

Unfortunately, it seems that most ISPs are simply forcing everyone to live with a low cap for a medium price.
 
Hmm, so Sprint has actually started showing data usage on their website. With three days remaining in my monthly billing cycle, I'm a little over 43GB. Just a hair over the new 5GB cap. :eek:
 
Kil4Thril said:
What kind of usage does simple surfing consume? Also, how are these figured? Does downloading one movie from your provider of choice use 9.x GB's, effectively doubling your month's usage in one shot? I don't understand the numbers here.
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Bump for an explanation, please.
 
Kil4Thril said:
Bump for an explanation, please.
Click to expand...

Yes, downloading one 9GB movie would put you way over your limit for the rest of the month. EVDO is intended for business travelers who need to check their email on the road. It cannot support a large number of home users who download movies and such.

Casual web surfing would doubtfully go over 5GB/month, even with the occasional YouTube video or software (not game) upgrade.
 
I remember 5 or so years ago getting letters from Cox Communications stating that we were using too much bandwidth. We didn't actually have a cap, it was more of a guideline. Up to 2gigs/day and not to exceed 30gigs/month. I think we were doing about 100gigs/month between the 4 users on our 5/2megabit connection.

We still use about the same amount of bandwidth (maybe a tad more) but we don't have to wait as long since we upgraded to 15/2. And FIOS isn't available here yet. I'd love to try out the 50/20.
 
HOCP4ME said:
Yes, downloading one 9GB movie would put you way over your limit for the rest of the month. EVDO is intended for business travelers who need to check their email on the road. It cannot support a large number of home users who download movies and such.

Casual web surfing would doubtfully go over 5GB/month, even with the occasional YouTube video or software (not game) upgrade.
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Thank you. So it is legitimately just total download? I think I'll stay with what I have for now.
 
Heh, I'm betting I'll be getting a call/email from Comcast pretty soon... 300GB down, 250 GB up in the course of the past ~2 weeks...

16/2 connection.. wtf they expect...?

I'd rather have a 4mb or 8mb connection but have unlimited (or closer to it) bandwidth...
 
SockMan! said:
ISPs currently and in the past seem to have a one-size-fits-all mindset. First it was all-you-can-eat; when bandwidth use was fairly low compared to today. Now they seem to be 'rationing' bandwidth by implementing bandwidth caps for everyone. Rationing may work to help conserve a tangible resources like metal or food for a country at war, but that's not how a free market should work; especially for a virtually intangible and scalable resource like bandwidth. When demand increases, either increase prices or supply; not try to kill demand like some ISPs are trying to do through usage caps.
Click to expand...

it might surprise you that there are points where you can definitely find tangible limits on bandwidth. its the old cable - shared neighbourhod thing, though DSL suffers from the same thing, just one step removed up the chain.

if your local exchange has a 10 MB(80Mb) link and serves 10 people using 1 MB(8Mb) each there isnt a problem, but we all know ISPs have never worked that way. the 10MB link might be split up among 30 links, with the expectation they will be bursty traffic - you load up a webpage, the link goes quiet while you start reading the page, and then bursts again when you follow a link or more to a new site. since we entered the streaming/p2p world links are less likely to be bursty and more sustained haulage links.

thats the problem in a nutshell - only 10 of those 30 links in the example need to use most of their 1MB and the other 20 links get the crumbs of the bandwidth. its a very crude example but as just about every isp on the planet runs more links than there is data to go around the problem is only going to get worse as more and more grannies find youtube.

bandwidth *is* quite scalable at the isp/backhaul end; its more the last mile and the bit in between that is the issue.

SockMan! said:
One thing that some ISPs don't seem to get is that not everybody uses the Internet the same; nor are heavy users necessarily doing illegal things. IMO the heavy users should be throttled to slower speeds that are still reasonable for browsing and email (things an average Joe would typically use the Internet connection for). That'd be preferred over cutting them off or charging ridiculous fees for going over the cap. It'd also let customers keep our all-you-can-eat mindset while allowing ISPs to manage bandwidth abusers.

Of course, offer tiered pricing so that heavy users can pay to increase or eliminate the throttling threshold. Basically, when subscribing to broadband you shouldn't just have an option when it comes to speed; but also caps (or lack thereof). Provide more choices to suit a wide range people with different needs and ISPs may find that their customers will pay based on their usage. Suddenly the heavy bandwidth users are no longer nuisances but valuable customers that are willing to pay more than the average Joe.
Click to expand...

this is absolutely correct and pretty much the way the australian market works; most isps - while they do have a cap - just throttle users to a slower speed once they reach it. even with a slower service you can chew through quite a bit of data on throttling. we also have tier pricing so that the granny who only needs email doesnt pay as much as the bittorrent freak who wants 200 GB from Exetel...

it works quite well as there is competition at each pricepoint, usually $40-50-60-70 dollars for the most common plans at the moment, with outliers at the cheap and expensive ends. most people seem to use between 5 and 40 GB of downloaded data, although that is growing.... (the upload share is growing too. iinet went from having 1 bit uploaded for every 4 bits down to nearly 1 up for every bit down - in the space of a year).

a company that is winning the business at one pricepoint may not necessarily be a winner at the next one; so differentiation of plans with what comes bundled has become important - things like internal data repositories that dont count towards caps (often full of linux distros, which can eat into caps in a bad way hehe), internal game servers that dont count data, one ISP had a deal going with ABC for data from them at one stage, and so on.

Annex-M uploads for DSL are another differentiator; it offers the consumer a trade: slightly less ADSL2 speeds (say from 22 mbit to 17mbit) for a higher upload speed (up from 1024Kb to 2mbit). thats another option for bittorrenters who like to seed/upload data, and there are a couple of isps who offer plans for that.

i have to say im looking at the way US industries seem to be bumbling their way into caps and tier services, it just strikes me as nobody took the trouble to look around first and see if there was anything to learn from other markets with more cap experience? its all stick and no carrot! no wonder the consumers are balking!
 
WTF guys? Have you finished downloading the internet yet? 300Gigs down.... sheesh.
 
arasta said:
...
thats the problem in a nutshell - only 10 of those 30 links in the example need to use most of their 1MB and the other 20 links get the crumbs of the bandwidth. its a very crude example but as just about every isp on the planet runs more links than there is data to go around the problem is only going to get worse as more and more grannies find youtube.

bandwidth *is* quite scalable at the isp/backhaul end; its more the last mile and the bit in between that is the issue.


this is absolutely correct and pretty much the way the australian market works; most isps - while they do have a cap - just throttle users to a slower speed once they reach it. even with a slower service you can chew through quite a bit of data on throttling. we also have tier pricing so that the granny who only needs email doesnt pay as much as the bittorrent freak who wants 200 GB from Exetel...

it works quite well as there is competition at each pricepoint, usually $40-50-60-70 dollars for the most common plans at the moment, with outliers at the cheap and expensive ends. most people seem to use between 5 and 40 GB of downloaded data, although that is growing.... (the upload share is growing too. iinet went from having 1 bit uploaded for every 4 bits down to nearly 1 up for every bit down - in the space of a year).

a company that is winning the business at one pricepoint may not necessarily be a winner at the next one; so differentiation of plans with what comes bundled has become important - things like internal data repositories that dont count towards caps (often full of linux distros, which can eat into caps in a bad way hehe), internal game servers that dont count data, one ISP had a deal going with ABC for data from them at one stage, and so on.

Annex-M uploads for DSL are another differentiator; it offers the consumer a trade: slightly less ADSL2 speeds (say from 22 mbit to 17mbit) for a higher upload speed (up from 1024Kb to 2mbit). thats another option for bittorrenters who like to seed/upload data, and there are a couple of isps who offer plans for that.

i have to say im looking at the way US industries seem to be bumbling their way into caps and tier services, it just strikes me as nobody took the trouble to look around first and see if there was anything to learn from other markets with more cap experience? its all stick and no carrot! no wonder the consumers are balking!
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arasta, one of the big problems here in the US, at least for most of us I think? is there is little to no competition.

If you want cable, you have 1 choice, if you want DSL you may if you're lucky have 2 choices; usually like verizon and something like Cavalier ... or dialup. At least with dialup you have a few choices, but I can't see myself going back to that - even with the comcrap throttling. D/L a legitimate small program (hijackthis) and watching it d/l at 30kb, that's just pathetic.

But that's the way it is. In our neighborhood, Verizon DSL isn't even accepting new customers, they're full up - and I've been through the wringer with them once already. The promised city-wide wifi is over and done with - it just isn't happening, period. Fios? highly doubtful here, our neighborhood isn't nearly high-end enough.

Give us real competition between DSL and cable providers, as well as Fios. I think we'd have a whole different ballgame with all this capping, throttling AND raising our rates at the same time.
 
BallerX said:
WTF guys? Have you finished downloading the internet yet? 300Gigs down.... sheesh.
Click to expand...

That was being pretty slow too, and that was a single person in a household of 5. Honestly, I'd rather have more bandwidth than faster speeds. Faster speeds are utterly useless if we can only use them for 3 days before being cut off.

I still managed 600+ GB bandwidth with a 4mb / 368kb connection.

Meh... they need stop being so "sneaky" about it... just tell us what it is and give us a way to monitor it...
 
They'll learn their lesson when they lose their customers. Optimum online has no such thing and never will have any such thing. Optimum Voice prides itself on "unlimited calling", same concept carries onto Optimum Online.

Guess I'm lucky...
 
it really about infrastructure, to me. Verizon has a system now of a straight pipe to houses and condos, giving bandwidth up to 50 mb per pipe, and the other providers are using a shared line. I,m not surprised their upset about heavy users. Internet was not designed , by other isp except verizon. to handle these heavy loads. But things change. Verizon is making a capital outlay to do things the way they should be done. The rest of the ISP are behind the curve. They dont have much choice. Their expenses are rising, as they would normally, and internet has changed dramaticaly. Their not prepared at all. So you get these spasms from the other providers. Verizon will probably up their prices too inevitably.They can do what they want, question is how do you respond???
 
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