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Will Apple TV become the new HD format? Some people seem to think so and that is adding more fuel to the argument that digital downloads may be the end of HD DVD and Blu-ray.
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Apple TV: The New HD Format?
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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They are also expecting Apple to announced a AppleTV to include a Blu-Ray player.
I for one doubt it. The iTunes Music Store hasn't led to the downfall of the compact disc, nor has it destroyed LPs and other forms of media, and these ~5 meg AAC downloads are within the reach of practically all users with an internet connection. What's going to be the average file size of an HD movie via iTunes, and how many users have the kind of bandwidth to make downloading very large files (say, 10 to 15 gigs a movie) in a reasonable amount of time, and how many users want to watch movies on their PC or have some sort of mechanism to stream the downloaded content to their TV (Apple TV, for instance)?
Downloadable, eventually yes. Apple version not likely.
The eventual winner will be the downloadable, transferrable to other players/formats medium. It's just going to take years before we get the Movie studios to where we are almost at with the music studios.
The eventual winner will be the downloadable, transferrable to other players/formats medium. It's just going to take years before we get the Movie studios to where we are almost at with the music studios.
TechLarry
RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
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I think we need to see this actually work first 
I said about the same thing in the Seagate(?) thread. The US doesn't have the bandwidth to allow for HD content to be easily accessed via the net. Not to mention many companies will throttle your speed if you download a lot.
Also, people still like the physical media if the cost is about the same, or even if the digital is cheaper.
InorganicMatter
[H]F Junkie
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Doesn't the AppleTV have a USB port? I could see them adding external USB HD/BD support.
QFT! And no DRM, please.I think we need to see this actually work first
My FiOS and uTorrent box do not agree with your esitmate. When the stupidity of the format war is over I will add HD discs to my (huge) SD DVD collection. Until then....ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
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I just spent a day streaming Heroes on my computer to my 57" from netflix. No jerks, stutters and the picture quality, while not HD it still amazed the hell out of me for a video stream.
I would still be a subscriber IF the streaming selection was equal or close to their rental selection, I have no doubt that it will get better, and then I will resubscribe.
I think we need to separate the "online music" from the "online video" market - comparing the two business models does not wash: I don't go to Tower Records to "rent" an album or tape. I do however go to Blockbuster to rent a DVD. How likely would I be to pay the same price for the ability to sit on my couch and stream it? Using the netflix model for hi-def and I would pay, and I would pay HAPPILY the $17.00 for unlimited streaming.
I would still be a subscriber IF the streaming selection was equal or close to their rental selection, I have no doubt that it will get better, and then I will resubscribe.
I think we need to separate the "online music" from the "online video" market - comparing the two business models does not wash: I don't go to Tower Records to "rent" an album or tape. I do however go to Blockbuster to rent a DVD. How likely would I be to pay the same price for the ability to sit on my couch and stream it? Using the netflix model for hi-def and I would pay, and I would pay HAPPILY the $17.00 for unlimited streaming.
Who is "they"?
huh? HTPC? How's that downsampled audio working out for you?
Biggest issue with AppleTV + Blu Ray/HD is the ATV is limited to 720p by the miniscule hardware inside it (some custom single core Pentium-M and Intel graphics IIRC). Also, if you're awake, you'll realize that means ATV's HD movies are all 720p maxDoesn't the AppleTV have a USB port? I could see them adding external USB HD/BD support.
QFT! And no DRM, please.
I would LOVE to ignore the hi def DVD formats altogether and go with an all-digital option. However, ATV is not the answer.
1. Rentals only is a drawback (let me buy the movie if I want)
2. Can't transfer a rental to an ipod or any other device (Can't buy the movie on an ATV downstairs, for example, and watch part of the movie upstairs on another ATV or on a computer)
3. Even if we were able to purchase movies, the 40gb/160gb hard drives in the ATV would fill up fast since each HD movie is 6GB ish according to what I read
Give me a full-fledged HD rental/purchase option for my MCE PC (even put your DRM all over it as long as I can transfer to other devices) and I'm in.
It'll jam up all the internets. But that's a bridge that can be crossed later.
made me lol
how long do the downloads take you? What are they, like 26GB?
low quality compressed to hell 720 HD and low price... that'll do great in the US (coincidentally for the same reason that HD DVD's only chance was in the US)....
The rest of the world wants quality and willingly pays for it.... Blu-ray (and packaged media for that matter) will always exist for people who want the best possible quality and a sense of ownership.
The rest of the world wants quality and willingly pays for it.... Blu-ray (and packaged media for that matter) will always exist for people who want the best possible quality and a sense of ownership.
I understands speed itself is still an issue but I think moreover there is bandwidth caps that is affecting the download medium right now.
Take Rogers for example, here in Canada. Extreme (2nd highest tier) is 8Mbps D/1Mbps U (actually a bit higher since they did some undisclosed upgrading). But bandwidth caps are current at 100GB/month (soon to be enforced). This is hardly enough, not even considering other data uses of the internet.
Take Rogers for example, here in Canada. Extreme (2nd highest tier) is 8Mbps D/1Mbps U (actually a bit higher since they did some undisclosed upgrading). But bandwidth caps are current at 100GB/month (soon to be enforced). This is hardly enough, not even considering other data uses of the internet.
It was a joke. You know how some people who evade the HD format wars by buying a dual-player. Well I'm evading yet another entry to this war by buying a tri-player. Get it? Ha ha
Jokes suck when you have to explain it.
Outamyhead
Supreme [H]ardness
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I remember when those Apple TV boxes first came out and for some reason I had to sit through a presentation for it, questions came up afterwards...such as does it have the relevant cables for hooking up to the TV........."no, the customer has to buy them because we don't know what the customer may need to connect it to the tv?". How about you just give us the damn cables anyway, seeing as your paying for what is essentially a wireless storage drive with HDMI, component, and S-video connections?
I could make one from a laptop drive for a heck of a lot less.
I hope they are going to upgrade the HDD as well, I think it was a piddly little 160GB drive, barely enough for a couple of HD movies.
And it only plays Quicktime compatible movies or apple content (format is something dumb like .264 or .624...something like that).
If you want to know what you get with it then here is the whopping huge list:-
Apple TV unit
Remote
Power lead
.....that's it!
.......No seriously that is it!!!
all for $399
Do you feel like your getting ripped off yet?
I could make one from a laptop drive for a heck of a lot less.
I hope they are going to upgrade the HDD as well, I think it was a piddly little 160GB drive, barely enough for a couple of HD movies.
And it only plays Quicktime compatible movies or apple content (format is something dumb like .264 or .624...something like that).
If you want to know what you get with it then here is the whopping huge list:-
Apple TV unit
Remote
Power lead
.....that's it!
.......No seriously that is it!!!
all for $399
Do you feel like your getting ripped off yet?
oh i see what you did thereIt was a joke. You know how some people who evade the HD format wars by buying a dual-player. Well I'm evading yet another entry to this war by buying a tri-player. Get it? Ha ha
Jokes suck when you have to explain it.
sorry I ruined it
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It's also available in 40GB version which is even worse
The format is h.264, which is becoming more and more popular. In fact, Blu ray and HDDVD use it
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I think physical media will be around for a long, long time. From my experience, people (including myself) want to have something tangible to hold on to. Now, if everyone in the US could get broadband, I think streaming/downloading for renting movies is possible.
your FiOS. Call me back in 4-5 years when as many people can get FiOS as can get cable
I was thinking how far broadband has advanced in the last 4-5 years and I honestly think it will be 8-10 years.
Ok well it looks like we can officialy discredit the Blu-Ray rumor since none of the rumored features made it lol. Let's see:
1. Taller enclosure (nope, the hardware is unchanged)
2. Drop 40GB version (still here)
3. 250GB version (nope, 40GB or 160GB)
4. Divx (no)
5. $550 wrong again
6. Blu Ray (I think we can say no to this one as well)
Although, I suppose, this new AppleTV could always come out later, but why wouldn't Steve have announced it yesterday?
I am one of those. I would rather have a physical disc made by a company that have one I made. It is far easier to have a self burned disk go bad on you than it is a factory burned one. Also how many people do you know that even now will download stuff, not burn it and will lose all their stuff when their machine, flash drive,... dies on them. However at the same time, i am realistic and know that in the future digital probably will win. However there will need to be a mass change in internet connect speeds for that to happen. Although try to get ma bell to do that. If they can't make a few hundred thousand off an area, then the hell with them, they don't desire DSL. I'd expect that people in areas with smaller telcos probably have a lot higher dsl availabity than those in large telco areas as the smaller telcos need to do whatever they can to stay afloat and are more willing to do something to make a few bucks than the larger ones are. Although at the same time $10,000 to a small telco is a lot more than it is to a large telco worth a billions.
I sure would considering it only costs $329 directly from Apple.
Damn them for only using a puny 160gb laptop HD in it too! WTF!!
You complain about the price, when a 160gb laptop hd costs at least $80, then the motherboard, case, R&D, and employee wages.
Shoot, I was trying to be "glass is half full" there. Your estimate is probably closer, unfortunately, for the US anyway.
Apple shmapple. They trying to be the new sony.
wtf wants poor quality downloads compressed to hell and back and a system that doesn't support a lot of the formats out there?
The only people that like AppleTV are the appleheads that love anything steve jobs throws at them. If it looks like crap, smells like crap, then it is crap.
AppleTV is like moving back 10 steps after the industry has moved ahead 2 steps. One of the biggest ripoffs there is.
wtf wants poor quality downloads compressed to hell and back and a system that doesn't support a lot of the formats out there?
The only people that like AppleTV are the appleheads that love anything steve jobs throws at them. If it looks like crap, smells like crap, then it is crap.
AppleTV is like moving back 10 steps after the industry has moved ahead 2 steps. One of the biggest ripoffs there is.
You'de think people on [H]ard wouldn't be so ignorant of technology. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have the exact same picture quality douche-crotch (both 1080p). I bet if HD-DVD had set their prices twice as high as Blu-Ray from the start then people like this guy would be like "OH YEAH! HD-DVD QUALITY IS SO TOP NOTCH BABY! BLU-RAY SUXORS, IT'S CHEAP CRAP!"
More expensive ╪ Better quality
Yes, Blu-Ray discs have more space on them. No, that doesn't translate into better picture quality, it's still 1080p.
Close, but not quite. Though they made me think about giving them my money this time.
----- ----- -----
I'm not a Netflix subscriber, but I gift the $9.99/mo subscription to 3 people every Xmas. These folks get 4 DVDs a month. Sometimes 5 (though rarely). That works out to $2.50 per title.
AppleTV is $3 per title once it's not brand new. Yes, new releases are substantially more than Netflix, but with Netflix you're not guaranteed to get that item immediately. You may have to wait around a bit. And even then, it'll take 1 or 2 days for it to come in the mail. I can justify the AppleTV's prices being a bit more per title in this case -- you're guaranteed to get it, and get it right now. I'm sure licensing costs for the films play into this as well -- I remember back in the day looking at the costs to replace a VHS cassette at a local video outlet. Lost their "Curly Sue" tape? It wasn't $20. It was $400. Why? Licensing agreement for the cassette to allow rentals.
----- ----- -----
Podcasts can be nice. If you can live with SDTV resolutions. My father (going on 60) is a big podcast fan. He has a 1st gen nano (that he hooked up to his car), so he can't watch them on that, but he does watch them on his desktop computer. My folks have basic cable (as in a $9/mo 20-channel package), so free content from PBS and other producers would be appreciated by them without having to sit in front of the PC.
----- ----- -----
The Flickr app and Youtube apps would see use. I gift my sister a Flickr Pro subscription because she goes to 2 foreign countries a year, and we got sick of her using these crappy ad-inundated free sites which forced 640x480 resolution upon us (that and I know she doesn't back up her original photos anywhere). Being able to view them from a nice big TV would be nice. Again, folks not crowding around the PC, just sitting on the couch.
Youtube? I hope it'd be the H.264 encoded ones. Youtube's been my friend at appointments thanks to the iPhone. I can't imagine a world without it. Being able to get a Top Gear fix on the go in the event I don't have any of my own content (ripped from DVD with me).
----- ----- -----
No DivX or XviD? I find the people that complain about this have all the same problem -- they encoded their content a while ago when H.264 encoders weren't ubiquitous, or they were simply impatient. They don't want to re-encode everything with H.264. I came late to the encoding all my DVDs game, so I ended up doing a painstaking comparison. Yes, encoding to H.264 took much longer (3x or 4x), but on fast-panning scenes there was no macro-blocking. Palette counts were higher for given frames. The file sizes were also a bit smaller. It's the technology of choice for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray for a reason -- it looks the best for the target bit rates, as well as resulting in the smallest file sizes.
----- ----- -----
But let's get to the topic. The new HD Format? Not yet. Why? Selection, or lack thereof. Until there's... 20,000 or some titles to choose from, with many in HD, people aren't going to jump from Netflix or Blockbuster simply because they're unable to currently rent what they want to see. Granted, that'll change over time, but as of this moment, Netflix and Blockbuster have the library advantage and Apple won't put a notable dent until they can start to match that.
720p@24fps is probably "good enough" for most folks in the same way that 128kbps MP3s were "good enough" and that DVD was "good enough". Would I prefer to see 1080p at higher framerates? Absolutely. Could I live with 720p@24fps though? I'm sure I could.
From your couch is nice as well. It's the reason why my parents love their TiVo and its lifetime subscription. It's just painless. Just easy. Replaces the TV's regular remote to boot. No playing with an HTPC to get things done. Just wham, bam, thank you ma'am simple. Though Netflix is looking to get into that game as well, whether building the tech into your TV (LG) or via a set-top box.
----- ----- -----
There's two other things that need to happen as well, though I might as well be dreaming.
iPods got a helping hand because it was easy to get your music onto it. Just rip your CD right into iTunes, and stick the MP3s or AACs onto your iPod. You just can't do that in iTunes for your DVDs*.
And even if you could rip your DVDs... storage isn't that cheap. At DVD resolution, an H.264 encoded average length (111 minutes) film is in the vicinity of 1.2GB. If we all had something like a Time Capsule or a Windows Home Server with 5TB or 10TB of storage, it'd probably be a non-issue. No one gives a hoot about a 5MB song. But when a $120 500GB disk can still be filled rather quickly with just SD content. HD content would fill it up even faster, which is something to think about when we're able to *purchase* HD content from AppleTV.
The other... is an SDK. Why? Weather. Stocks. News RSS feeds (text or ideally, video). Get the info you want now, without leaving the couch, or waiting for it to air. The nerd in me would like people to develop NES, SNES and Genesis emulators in which I could plug in a USB converted controller so that stuff could sit in the closet packed away (without repaying for it all through the Wii's Virtual Console).
----- ----- -----
HD Format? Not yet. On the right track? More or less. I think it'll be closer to 2010 before we start seeing this market take off though.
* There is a "Convert to Apple TV" option in iTunes as of 7.5 for things just as home movies made with iMovie, and other video content (stuff you could've encoded with Handbrake for instance) but I haven't played with it, and I sincerely doubt it allows you to rip DVDs.
----- ----- -----
I'm not a Netflix subscriber, but I gift the $9.99/mo subscription to 3 people every Xmas. These folks get 4 DVDs a month. Sometimes 5 (though rarely). That works out to $2.50 per title.
AppleTV is $3 per title once it's not brand new. Yes, new releases are substantially more than Netflix, but with Netflix you're not guaranteed to get that item immediately. You may have to wait around a bit. And even then, it'll take 1 or 2 days for it to come in the mail. I can justify the AppleTV's prices being a bit more per title in this case -- you're guaranteed to get it, and get it right now. I'm sure licensing costs for the films play into this as well -- I remember back in the day looking at the costs to replace a VHS cassette at a local video outlet. Lost their "Curly Sue" tape? It wasn't $20. It was $400. Why? Licensing agreement for the cassette to allow rentals.
----- ----- -----
Podcasts can be nice. If you can live with SDTV resolutions. My father (going on 60) is a big podcast fan. He has a 1st gen nano (that he hooked up to his car), so he can't watch them on that, but he does watch them on his desktop computer. My folks have basic cable (as in a $9/mo 20-channel package), so free content from PBS and other producers would be appreciated by them without having to sit in front of the PC.
----- ----- -----
The Flickr app and Youtube apps would see use. I gift my sister a Flickr Pro subscription because she goes to 2 foreign countries a year, and we got sick of her using these crappy ad-inundated free sites which forced 640x480 resolution upon us (that and I know she doesn't back up her original photos anywhere). Being able to view them from a nice big TV would be nice. Again, folks not crowding around the PC, just sitting on the couch.
Youtube? I hope it'd be the H.264 encoded ones. Youtube's been my friend at appointments thanks to the iPhone. I can't imagine a world without it. Being able to get a Top Gear fix on the go in the event I don't have any of my own content (ripped from DVD with me).
----- ----- -----
No DivX or XviD? I find the people that complain about this have all the same problem -- they encoded their content a while ago when H.264 encoders weren't ubiquitous, or they were simply impatient. They don't want to re-encode everything with H.264. I came late to the encoding all my DVDs game, so I ended up doing a painstaking comparison. Yes, encoding to H.264 took much longer (3x or 4x), but on fast-panning scenes there was no macro-blocking. Palette counts were higher for given frames. The file sizes were also a bit smaller. It's the technology of choice for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray for a reason -- it looks the best for the target bit rates, as well as resulting in the smallest file sizes.
----- ----- -----
But let's get to the topic. The new HD Format? Not yet. Why? Selection, or lack thereof. Until there's... 20,000 or some titles to choose from, with many in HD, people aren't going to jump from Netflix or Blockbuster simply because they're unable to currently rent what they want to see. Granted, that'll change over time, but as of this moment, Netflix and Blockbuster have the library advantage and Apple won't put a notable dent until they can start to match that.
720p@24fps is probably "good enough" for most folks in the same way that 128kbps MP3s were "good enough" and that DVD was "good enough". Would I prefer to see 1080p at higher framerates? Absolutely. Could I live with 720p@24fps though? I'm sure I could.
From your couch is nice as well. It's the reason why my parents love their TiVo and its lifetime subscription. It's just painless. Just easy. Replaces the TV's regular remote to boot. No playing with an HTPC to get things done. Just wham, bam, thank you ma'am simple. Though Netflix is looking to get into that game as well, whether building the tech into your TV (LG) or via a set-top box.
----- ----- -----
There's two other things that need to happen as well, though I might as well be dreaming.
iPods got a helping hand because it was easy to get your music onto it. Just rip your CD right into iTunes, and stick the MP3s or AACs onto your iPod. You just can't do that in iTunes for your DVDs*.
And even if you could rip your DVDs... storage isn't that cheap. At DVD resolution, an H.264 encoded average length (111 minutes) film is in the vicinity of 1.2GB. If we all had something like a Time Capsule or a Windows Home Server with 5TB or 10TB of storage, it'd probably be a non-issue. No one gives a hoot about a 5MB song. But when a $120 500GB disk can still be filled rather quickly with just SD content. HD content would fill it up even faster, which is something to think about when we're able to *purchase* HD content from AppleTV.
The other... is an SDK. Why? Weather. Stocks. News RSS feeds (text or ideally, video). Get the info you want now, without leaving the couch, or waiting for it to air. The nerd in me would like people to develop NES, SNES and Genesis emulators in which I could plug in a USB converted controller so that stuff could sit in the closet packed away (without repaying for it all through the Wii's Virtual Console).
----- ----- -----
HD Format? Not yet. On the right track? More or less. I think it'll be closer to 2010 before we start seeing this market take off though.
* There is a "Convert to Apple TV" option in iTunes as of 7.5 for things just as home movies made with iMovie, and other video content (stuff you could've encoded with Handbrake for instance) but I haven't played with it, and I sincerely doubt it allows you to rip DVDs.
I dunno what all the fuss is about with Apple announcing this... what did people think the Apple TV gizmo was really meant to do?
Also, the Xbox 360 has been able to stream HD movies after a short buffer delay for a long time already. (Don't know what the native resolution of those HD movies are, but at least the Xbox 360 can output up to 1080p). Plus there are way more Xbox 360's out there than Apple TV's.
Steve Jobs really has the press eating out of his hands.
Also, the Xbox 360 has been able to stream HD movies after a short buffer delay for a long time already. (Don't know what the native resolution of those HD movies are, but at least the Xbox 360 can output up to 1080p). Plus there are way more Xbox 360's out there than Apple TV's.
Steve Jobs really has the press eating out of his hands.
idividebyzero
Gawd
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2007
- Messages
- 578
The future is AppleTV? Dont make me laugh.
god almighty
god almighty
Outamyhead
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2008
- Messages
- 4,263
It's a wireless storage box...with some TV output!?
I could probably build something similar out of a shuttle bare bones system, with TV output, granted it may be $2-300 more expensive but it would be a bloody sight more useful.
Besides the employees make more than enough money out of their intel lapto....I mean, Apple ibooks.
First, I find it amazing that every movie producing studio has jumped on board with this... guess the only thing they can all agree on is that this is the future and they love Apple. Make no mistake, broadband infrastructure/ drm/ piracy are the only things holding this back from it's full potential.
I think the Apple Tv is a useful device for those already in the "i Economy".
It definitely is ripping off some Xbox 360 functions, but so be it.
To all the HTPC naysayers: this is a sexy solution for the living room PERIOD! No humming fans / clean looking, small enough, reasonably priced and easy to use.
For all the people who complain about... omg not 1080p: So what! Most people do not have a way to take advantage of that resolution (no hdtv) and afaik cable tv in hd is only 720p or 1080i. Can anyone really say that they can actually tell the difference between 1080i vs 1080p? Even side by side I bet you cannot.
I use no Apple products and have no desire to, but this one got me interested.
I think the Apple Tv is a useful device for those already in the "i Economy".
It definitely is ripping off some Xbox 360 functions, but so be it.
To all the HTPC naysayers: this is a sexy solution for the living room PERIOD! No humming fans / clean looking, small enough, reasonably priced and easy to use.
For all the people who complain about... omg not 1080p: So what! Most people do not have a way to take advantage of that resolution (no hdtv) and afaik cable tv in hd is only 720p or 1080i. Can anyone really say that they can actually tell the difference between 1080i vs 1080p? Even side by side I bet you cannot.
I use no Apple products and have no desire to, but this one got me interested.
LOL, douche-crotch, classy
.... well then, douche-nozzle, yes HD DVD (that's right, there's no hyphen in the name ) and Blu-ray are both 1080p, I was referring to the cost and how the lack there of is often appealing and a deciding factor in the US regardless of technical factors. As for only space being different, there is a bandwidth difference as well, but I fear that stating any solid facts may be like talking to a wall (or well, a douche-nozzle as you may put it).
I agree, more expensive does not equal better quality, it's in the technical specifications where one can find this measure.
good day.
P.S. LOL, bit rates. Should you want to be educated on this matter, please feel free to continue this conversation via. "Private Message" so you don't continue to stink up this forum.
This one is interesting, but give me an option to purchase HD movies!
And not being able to transfer to the iPOD? Or to a laptop or to another AppleTV in the bedroom? The download is tied to the individual unit. WTF how did Apple miss that boat?
Also, the xvid/divx problem is a big one for me. Like it or not, I have a lot of content in those formats by this point (since I've been amassing video for 5+ years). I need to play those files. Plus, I don't know of any mainstream DVR software that saves files as x.264, so no recorded TV on this thing either.
Figure I can build a full HTPC with 2GB RAM, Integrated ATI or nvidia video, dual core Brisbane CPU in a Antec Minuet 300 case for $500 ish. I'll do that for my bedroom (which needs a digital media option badly).
I don't see this going anywhere. Cable companies want you to get your media through them, they don't have an interest in giving 24/7 true high speed internet access to consumers so they can get their content elsewhere. Verizon will probably join them in the throttling game when they are finally able to roll TV services out to all subscribers. Verizon wants to be your media hub as well. We don't have any control over it so it's just wait and see for now.
Posted using a 20/5 FIOS connection. :-P
Posted using a 20/5 FIOS connection. :-P
LOL, douche-crotch, classy
As for only space being different, there is a bandwidth difference as well, but I fear that stating any solid facts may be like talking to a wall (or well, a douche-nozzle as you may put it).
I agree, more expensive does not equal better quality, it's in the technical specifications where one can find this measure.
Ah way to start off with good old fashioned name calling. They're better than linking or quoting facts any day of the week. Of course if you did, it's possible that someone could follow links off of those pages to another page which, in so many words, says "This one has a higher bit rate, but 99 out of 100 people couldn't tell the difference." A good 1080p transfer looks good in both formats. In fact both formats are such a huge improvement over standard def DVD but such little difference between themselves that it really takes a professional in a professional setting to do so.
Let's be honest. Do you really think that the guy who's car rattles like semi-trailer with locked up brakes because his subs are cranked all the way up can tell the difference between blu-ray and hd dvd? I didn't think so.
Both HD media formats combined, will be lucky to get 2-3x the market penetration ratio laser disc had while VHS was the dominate format. Between the format "war" and blu-ray profile roulette, consumers are more likely to take the easy way out with Apple, MS or Netflix. No, those downloads won't have TrueHD sound, well thought out menus and extras, or obscenely high bit rates, but they also won't require the technically challenged to find a "High Def discs for Dummies" book either.